|
Post by gobbylar on Jan 27, 2024 23:17:20 GMT
If I was a Sunderland fan i'd be asking why in this day and age are you housing away fans above me and my family, when you know that most clubs have their fair share of imbeciles following them away from home? Then again, i'd be asking why my club laid out the red carpet for Newcastle United and dressed parts of the stadium up in their colours and slogans. Seems brains are a bit thin on the ground up there. The housing of away fans is questioned repeatedly by Sunderland fans. Reckon it'll change before long The shameful Newcastle carry on for which we will ever be a laughing stock probably ensured that The fact a safety officer relaxed the rules today at the request of a Stoke fan/ FSA rep illustrates how incompetent SAFC are as a club sadly. And that incompetence has been shown to be downright dangerous yet again. Said fan and FSA rep has to take some blame though for a misguided and ill thought out obsession over nothing much in the grand scheme Embarassing and a near miss for all concerned All for what gain? Now all away fans of all clubs will be subject to enhanced search procedures because clearly the risk is too great They still won't put a net up of course because that'd be too sensible
|
|
|
Post by mutters on Jan 28, 2024 12:20:12 GMT
Yesterday's pat down was less invasive than last year, for sure, so thank you for your efforts Malcolm.
In relation to the ejections and coin throwing (of which I saw none yesterday), whilst it cannot be condoned, in order to understand the size of the problem, perhaps the following information could be shared.
1 - How many ejections / arrests this season detailed by game of supporters - both home and away 2 - How many arrests / ejection last season detailed by game of supporters - both home and away 3 - How many supporters were investigated / disciplined / had season tickets removed after the repeated throwing of objects towards Alex Neil last season 4 - How many other Championship teams are in the same category as Stoke for invasive searching 5 - Is this level of searching undertaken on home fans, and if not, why not? 6 - What other grounds carry out this level of invasive searching - I'm not aware of any in England 7 - What risk assessments have been undertaken to prevent alleged object throwing from upper tier to lower tier and what adjustments have been made by the club to prevent any occurrence of objects being thrown
Perhaps the above information will help the problem to be placed in perspective.
|
|
|
Post by gobbylar on Jan 28, 2024 13:15:34 GMT
Yesterday's pat down was less invasive than last year, for sure, so thank you for your efforts Malcolm. In relation to the ejections and coin throwing (of which I saw none yesterday), whilst it cannot be condoned, in order to understand the size of the problem, perhaps the following information could be shared. 1 - How many ejections / arrests this season detailed by game of supporters - both home and away 2 - How many arrests / ejection last season detailed by game of supporters - both home and away 3 - How many supporters were investigated / disciplined / had season tickets removed after the repeated throwing of objects towards Alex Neil last season 4 - How many other Championship teams are in the same category as Stoke for invasive searching 5 - Is this level of searching undertaken on home fans, and if not, why not? 6 - What other grounds carry out this level of invasive searching - I'm not aware of any in England 7 - What risk assessments have been undertaken to prevent alleged object throwing from upper tier to lower tier and what adjustments have been made by the club to prevent any occurrence of objects being thrown Perhaps the above information will help the problem to be placed in perspective. Wake up man This ridiculous campaign is dead - as it should be An FSA rep has acted in conjunction with a safety officer to put supporter safety at risk Encouraged by this forum. Some of the posts are outstanding for their insanity And you have no right to demand answers or they to further this embarassment after all this Move on Hopefully SAFC will investigate how on earth this happened Not holding my breath though
|
|
|
Post by durbanscircus on Jan 28, 2024 13:34:00 GMT
Yesterday's pat down was less invasive than last year, for sure, so thank you for your efforts Malcolm. In relation to the ejections and coin throwing (of which I saw none yesterday), whilst it cannot be condoned, in order to understand the size of the problem, perhaps the following information could be shared. 1 - How many ejections / arrests this season detailed by game of supporters - both home and away 2 - How many arrests / ejection last season detailed by game of supporters - both home and away 3 - How many supporters were investigated / disciplined / had season tickets removed after the repeated throwing of objects towards Alex Neil last season 4 - How many other Championship teams are in the same category as Stoke for invasive searching 5 - Is this level of searching undertaken on home fans, and if not, why not? 6 - What other grounds carry out this level of invasive searching - I'm not aware of any in England 7 - What risk assessments have been undertaken to prevent alleged object throwing from upper tier to lower tier and what adjustments have been made by the club to prevent any occurrence of objects being thrown Perhaps the above information will help the problem to be placed in perspective. Wake up man This ridiculous campaign is dead - as it should be An FSA rep has acted in conjunction with a safety officer to put supporter safety at risk Encouraged by this forum. Some of the posts are outstanding for their insanity And you have no right to demand answers or they to further this embarassment after all this Move on Hopefully SAFC will investigate how on earth this happened Not holding my breath though Malcolm put the supporters views forward, he put no one at risk. The risk has been created by Sunderland reordering the use of the grouhd in a way which produced an unsafe outcome. They obviously care little about their own supporters never mind anyone who is visiting. The way out of this is not to pursue indiscriminate policies of stop and search , inconsistent ground rules and confiscation of money and other belongings from people who just want to watch a football match. Keep going Malcolm despite what happened yesterday in principle you were absolutely right. I amy not go to Sunderland next year if its not sorted, although the stop and search was a ligher touch the whole atmosphere was oppressive with assuptions of guilt , large police presence and dogs.They couldnt even arrange for the opening of the ground to coincide with the way fans arriving by coach, leaving disabled people sat on the pavement in January
|
|
|
Post by sticky on Jan 28, 2024 13:43:05 GMT
A real shame that a few idiots have tarnished us. The work Malcolm does is muchly appreciated! and the matchday experience was great from my perspective. But tbf Malcolm I wouldn’t blame you if you thought I just can’t be arsed anymore. Let’s hope anyone involved in the coin throwing is dealt with and not just a slap on the wrist, I honestly don’t know what goes through someone’s head to think it’s funny to throw a coin down into supporters🤷🏼♂️
|
|
|
Post by gobbylar on Jan 28, 2024 13:48:10 GMT
Wake up man This ridiculous campaign is dead - as it should be An FSA rep has acted in conjunction with a safety officer to put supporter safety at risk Encouraged by this forum. Some of the posts are outstanding for their insanity And you have no right to demand answers or they to further this embarassment after all this Move on Hopefully SAFC will investigate how on earth this happened Not holding my breath though Malcolm put the supporters views forward, he put no one at risk. The risk has been created by Sunderland reordering the use of the grouhd in a way which produced an unsafe outcome. They obviously care little about their own supporters never mind anyone who is visiting. The way out of this is not to pursue indiscriminate policies of stop and search , inconsistent ground rules and confiscation of money and other belongings from people who just want to watch a football match. Keep going Malcolm despite what happened yesterday in principle you were absolutely right. I amy not go to Sunderland next year if its not sorted, although the stop and search was a ligher touch the whole atmosphere was oppressive with assuptions of guilt , large police presence and dogs.They couldnt even arrange for the opening of the ground to coincide with the way fans arriving by coach, leaving disabled people sat on the pavement in January You won't go to one away game a season because you'll get patted down? The away fans have been there for years. You do have a choice when you're fully aware you realise? The away fan arrangements and safety measures won't be reviewed because a handful of Stoke fans, led by someone who has displayed questionable judgement, have been irritated Maybe you'll be relegated and be saved this indignation I suppose Given the reported trouble in town and in the pubs by Stoke fans you're surprised by a police presence? Do you actually go to games? You really to cease encouraging this and recognise that any right minded football fan can see it for what it is It isn't about club affiliation. Least he had a nice day out viewing the CCTV cameras though
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2024 14:02:19 GMT
It was my first visit to Sunderland yesterday.
I was impressed by the overall friendliness of the place. The supporters, stewards and police were all spot on.
As for the search on entering the stadium, I was greeted by a friendly steward and dog-sniffer team, and after a quick search I entered the ground with minimal fuss.
|
|
|
Post by haway on Jan 28, 2024 14:04:43 GMT
The coin throwers have completely ruined it for you here, wouldn’t be surprised to see coins confiscated again because of this if the away fans aren’t moved.
|
|
|
Post by mutters on Jan 28, 2024 14:18:02 GMT
Yesterday's pat down was less invasive than last year, for sure, so thank you for your efforts Malcolm. In relation to the ejections and coin throwing (of which I saw none yesterday), whilst it cannot be condoned, in order to understand the size of the problem, perhaps the following information could be shared. 1 - How many ejections / arrests this season detailed by game of supporters - both home and away 2 - How many arrests / ejection last season detailed by game of supporters - both home and away 3 - How many supporters were investigated / disciplined / had season tickets removed after the repeated throwing of objects towards Alex Neil last season 4 - How many other Championship teams are in the same category as Stoke for invasive searching 5 - Is this level of searching undertaken on home fans, and if not, why not? 6 - What other grounds carry out this level of invasive searching - I'm not aware of any in England 7 - What risk assessments have been undertaken to prevent alleged object throwing from upper tier to lower tier and what adjustments have been made by the club to prevent any occurrence of objects being thrown Perhaps the above information will help the problem to be placed in perspective. Wake up man This ridiculous campaign is dead - as it should be An FSA rep has acted in conjunction with a safety officer to put supporter safety at risk Encouraged by this forum. Some of the posts are outstanding for their insanity And you have no right to demand answers or they to further this embarassment after all this Move on Hopefully SAFC will investigate how on earth this happened Not holding my breath though Can you tell me of another ground that takes your coins off you then please? I thought I lived in a free country to express my opinion, clearly not in your eyes, it would seem
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 28, 2024 14:35:00 GMT
Yesterday's pat down was less invasive than last year, for sure, so thank you for your efforts Malcolm. In relation to the ejections and coin throwing (of which I saw none yesterday), whilst it cannot be condoned, in order to understand the size of the problem, perhaps the following information could be shared. 1 - How many ejections / arrests this season detailed by game of supporters - both home and away 2 - How many arrests / ejection last season detailed by game of supporters - both home and away 3 - How many supporters were investigated / disciplined / had season tickets removed after the repeated throwing of objects towards Alex Neil last season 4 - How many other Championship teams are in the same category as Stoke for invasive searching 5 - Is this level of searching undertaken on home fans, and if not, why not? 6 - What other grounds carry out this level of invasive searching - I'm not aware of any in England 7 - What risk assessments have been undertaken to prevent alleged object throwing from upper tier to lower tier and what adjustments have been made by the club to prevent any occurrence of objects being thrown Perhaps the above information will help the problem to be placed in perspective. Wake up man This ridiculous campaign is dead - as it should be An FSA rep has acted in conjunction with a safety officer to put supporter safety at risk Encouraged by this forum. Some of the posts are outstanding for their insanity And you have no right to demand answers or they to further this embarassment after all this Move on Hopefully SAFC will investigate how on earth this happened Not holding my breath though I am sorry but that is the most offensive, insulting post I have seen towards a highly respected figure not only at Stoke but nationally. I suggest you google Malcolm Clarke and then retract your accusation. For years he has worked tirelessly to enhance spectator experience and safety and even now having had to retire from his position at 75 he still works hard which is why he met your safety officer yesterday. He did so in all good faith but was let down by some moronic fans. You have probably seen on here how adamantly he has made his feelings known to those fans who let him down. Even on his X post yesterday announcing his success he begged fans not to let him down by throwing things after what he had achieved. I hope they all get very long banning orders. Please look closer to home for the answer to your problem not at Malcolm. Do you think it sensible to house away fans above home fans? At how many other grounds does that happen? At Stoke there is an empty block separating home and away fans patrolled by security and with a police observation point immediately behind it. Yet your club think it's OK to put away fans up in the gods, distanced from the action, with home fans below them and expect them all to be perfectly behaved. Even in the set up at Stoke you occasionally see things thrown between the rival fans. Every club has morons who don't know how to behave or are you telling us that if Sunderland fans were housed above rival fans they wouldn't throw things down on them? This leads me to another issue. Why are only some fans body searched? If you accept that housing away fans in the upper tier could lead to injury from thrown coins etc on the fans below why not search all away fans? It only takes one coin to be thrown by one fan for an injury to occur and as I said before all clubs have moronic fans. It is a red rag to a bull to single out Stoke fans who will then think it very clever to sneak coins into the ground and use them as missiles. Some probably wouldn't have thought of it if your club hadn't made it such a big issue. Don't forget that because the rule was rescinded yesterday morning a lot of Stoke fans didn't know this and possibly had decided to be 'clever' before the easing of the body searches. I in no way condone or excuse the poor behaviour of our fans. In terms of risking fan safety though the biggest culprit is your football club and it is risking the safety of its own fans. Do not blame a man who was trying his best to diffuse a situation which has made a lot of Stoke fans, not just the hooligans very angry. It is bad enough being housed where we are, but then to suffer an invasive body search because of where we are sitting is rubbing salt into the wound
|
|
insect
Youth Player
Posts: 311
|
Post by insect on Jan 28, 2024 14:40:48 GMT
No investigation needed. Answer is obvious. If I’m a safety officer and the club came to me on advice about housing visiting supporters above home fans. It would be a no. It takes one idiot drunk or not to throw one coin that could land on anyone’s head causing major injury from that height. It really is as simple as that. Sunderland have to be accountable I’m afraid. In no way do I condone the actions of these idiots but why are we banning coins in the first place. Unfortunately the majority always suffer because of the minority. Same reason an old git like me can’t take a pint to my seat at half time and relax with it rather than rushing it to get back in my seat for the second half. Sorry but Sunderland are to blame and are taking high risks just to give the home team a small advantage. Move away fans to where they were before this idea and the problem is solved. It really is as simple as that. And Newcastle shouldn’t get away with it either. Malcolm am I right in thinking that away supporters should be close to the pitch side anyway ! And if so how do they get round it ?
|
|
insect
Youth Player
Posts: 311
|
Post by insect on Jan 28, 2024 14:48:17 GMT
The coin throwers have completely ruined it for you here, wouldn’t be surprised to see coins confiscated again because of this if the away fans aren’t moved. Sorry but your safety officers have ruined it. When you get traveling away fans there’s always one or two idiots who spoil it for the majority. We have some right bell ends as so called followers of our club. So do Sunderland and so do EVERY team.
|
|
|
Post by durbanscircus on Jan 28, 2024 14:57:22 GMT
Malcolm put the supporters views forward, he put no one at risk. The risk has been created by Sunderland reordering the use of the grouhd in a way which produced an unsafe outcome. They obviously care little about their own supporters never mind anyone who is visiting. The way out of this is not to pursue indiscriminate policies of stop and search , inconsistent ground rules and confiscation of money and other belongings from people who just want to watch a football match. Keep going Malcolm despite what happened yesterday in principle you were absolutely right. I amy not go to Sunderland next year if its not sorted, although the stop and search was a ligher touch the whole atmosphere was oppressive with assuptions of guilt , large police presence and dogs.They couldnt even arrange for the opening of the ground to coincide with the way fans arriving by coach, leaving disabled people sat on the pavement in January You won't go to one away game a season because you'll get patted down? The away fans have been there for years. You do have a choice when you're fully aware you realise? The away fan arrangements and safety measures won't be reviewed because a handful of Stoke fans, led by someone who has displayed questionable judgement, have been irritated Maybe you'll be relegated and be saved this indignation I suppose Given the reported trouble in town and in the pubs by Stoke fans you're surprised by a police presence? Do you actually go to games? You really to cease encouraging this and recognise that any right minded football fan can see it for what it is It isn't about club affiliation. Least he had a nice day out viewing the CCTV cameras though The fact you have deliberately misquoted me shows you are here on a wind up and have lost the argument. There is a line of causality here which starts with Sunderland putting their supporters at risk and then not accepting they have made a mistake. I have been to over 80 grounds I enjoy my travel watching the lads, even in fearsome times Ive turned up. But I have never been to a ground where I have to give up my possessions to get in because the automatic assumption is that I am a danger to others because the venue managers have created a dangerous situation.....do you understand the concept of causality?
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Jan 28, 2024 15:07:40 GMT
Malcolm put the supporters views forward, he put no one at risk. The risk has been created by Sunderland reordering the use of the grouhd in a way which produced an unsafe outcome. They obviously care little about their own supporters never mind anyone who is visiting. The way out of this is not to pursue indiscriminate policies of stop and search , inconsistent ground rules and confiscation of money and other belongings from people who just want to watch a football match. Keep going Malcolm despite what happened yesterday in principle you were absolutely right. I amy not go to Sunderland next year if its not sorted, although the stop and search was a ligher touch the whole atmosphere was oppressive with assuptions of guilt , large police presence and dogs.They couldnt even arrange for the opening of the ground to coincide with the way fans arriving by coach, leaving disabled people sat on the pavement in January You won't go to one away game a season because you'll get patted down? The away fans have been there for years. You do have a choice when you're fully aware you realise? The away fan arrangements and safety measures won't be reviewed because a handful of Stoke fans, led by someone who has displayed questionable judgement, have been irritated Maybe you'll be relegated and be saved this indignation I suppose Given the reported trouble in town and in the pubs by Stoke fans you're surprised by a police presence? Do you actually go to games? You really to cease encouraging this and recognise that any right minded football fan can see it for what it is It isn't about club affiliation. Least he had a nice day out viewing the CCTV cameras though Have a look at the fan arrests in the Championship last season before you start pointing fingers
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Jan 28, 2024 15:09:44 GMT
It was my first visit to Sunderland yesterday. I was impressed by the overall friendliness of the place. The supporters, stewards and police were all spot on. As for the search on entering the stadium, I was greeted by a friendly steward and dog-sniffer team, and after a quick search I entered the ground with minimal fuss. I've always had the same experience no doubt you exhibited good behaviour and manners it's not difficult is it.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2024 15:14:20 GMT
It was my first visit to Sunderland yesterday. I was impressed by the overall friendliness of the place. The supporters, stewards and police were all spot on. As for the search on entering the stadium, I was greeted by a friendly steward and dog-sniffer team, and after a quick search I entered the ground with minimal fuss. I've always had the same experience no doubt you exhibited good behaviour and manners it's not difficult is it. It really isn't.
|
|
|
Post by PotterLog on Jan 28, 2024 15:36:23 GMT
While it seems obvious that Sunderland have a sub-optimal set-up for away fans which invites trouble, and I support Malcom and the FSA’s efforts to mitigate the need for such draconian measures, I think we also have to look at this from their fans’ perspective a bit.
The email from the safety officer indicates that they have had no other incidents of missile-throwing this season.. Imagine if you were the parent of a kid in that section yesterday - how would you view a decision taken that very morning to relax the rules around heavy objects taken into the ground? It’s hardly surprising if there’s some anger about it.
Finally I’d gently remind any Mackems that all MC and the FSA are interested in is fans’ rights and interests, including safety, and that they have worked tirelessly to stand up for these for all football fans, including Sunderland’s, on countless occasions down the years.
|
|
|
Post by Scouse on Jan 28, 2024 16:16:14 GMT
Pre match .. couple of beers in the Vaux tap room .. Maidstone result well received , locals fine, behave and everyone gets on fine , strange that
Pat down , no issues , supervisor friendly , asked why Stoke always arrive late ..we weren’t , I’m sure he preferred working our relatively small queue than the long queues snaking away from the home turnstiles .. but as I told him which drew a smile , cos once inside the ground it was all down hill
Post game , back to the coaches , scene of a few niggles in the past , none this time , ( aware peoples experiences 20 seconds earlier / later cab be greatly different
All in all bar not taking our chances and having a defence who couldn’t defend another good trip to football minded Sunderland , spoilt only by the result
|
|
|
Post by Bera’s Beano on Jan 28, 2024 16:17:11 GMT
Those fans who went to the S of L last season will remember the fuss which some of us made about the decision to confiscate coins and other items from visiting supporters only. I have recently been engaged in dialogue with Sunderland about what will happen on Saturday. Unfortunately restrictions will be in place again with coins, vapes, lighters and power banks not being allowed ( note - the Stoke City website only mentions coins and vapes). In response to our representations, Sunderland have made some changes. There will be a programme seller outside the turnstile who takes cards. Last year if you left your coins in the car you couldn't get one or if you got change for a note, they were confiscated at the turnstile. You will also be able to hand items to the stewards, get a ticket and reclaim them after the game. This could for example include a purse or change purse. Whilst these changes are a welcome improvement, I still think the policy is unjustified and disproportionate to the risk. If there is a significant risk it is made worse by Sunderland's decision to house visiting fans in the upper tier above home fans. We used to be at the other end. Am I right in saying that Sunderland are the only Championship club to do this ? It remains a matter of concern that (a) items which are not illegal and which do not appear on the list of prohibited items in their own ground regulations will not be allowed. I cannot imagine, for example, that any stokies would throw a powerpack on to the home fans. They cost money and fans bring them to re-charge phones on a long journey. (b) these are restrictions which apply only to away fans. I am not aware of any other clubs who apply different policies to home and away fans in this way. The ground regs make no reference to this. As a result of my representations I have been invited to meet the safety officer before the game and visit the control room, so I will have the opportunity to make our points verbally to the decision-maker. But it will too late to alter the practice for Saturday. I hope that fellow Stokies, particularly our younger fans, will not misbehave or act in an anti-social way, in the stands, on the concourse or outside the ground, since this would not only embarrass the Club and the rest of our fanbase, but would take some of the ground from under my feet. No pyros or hurling beer all over fellow fans on the councourse ( as happened at Rotherham). I was in the home end underneath the away support but underneath the overhang and I didn't hear, see or notice any issues at all of anything being thrown and all seemed pretty calm. Albeit there wasn't much to get excited about the whole day anyway Seemed a prefectly ammicable day for all concerned generally, should be reassessed if we do fall under the higher risk group as it stands. Sunderland fans I was speaking to are not happy that the fans have been moved to the upper tier anyway, they want them back where they used to be on the bend as that's what the stadium was designed for and the holding cells are there apparently. Really weird decisions being made by the owners of that club. Get a familiar feeling?
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2024 19:56:35 GMT
Malcolm you are a credit to the club and English football in general. What a shame the idiots associated with our club have undone all the work you have done in the build up to today’s game. I’ve come to the conclusion in recent years this bunch of idiots we have attached to the fan base (not only immature youngsters, many immature “men”) will always be there and have sadly halted my attendance at most away matches - I hope it hasn’t put many others off. The club are powerless I feel to stop them and it seems now it’s an acceptable part of the “away day experience” - not for me! I really appreciate those words, potters. It's awful if the behaviour of a small minority of our fans deters you from going away. I will be talking to the Club about it in the coming week.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2024 20:12:57 GMT
This is a constructive discussion so off you pop Sunderland's Safety Officer has effectively confirmed that this misguided initiative directly led to Stoke fans throwing coins and being ejected Pretty constructive feedback on the matter I'd say I don't think that's necessarily a valid conclusion. Steve Neil and I agreed that if a Club takes one course of action, you can never say with certainty what would have happened if a different course had been followed. If the full enhanced search had been kept in place yesterday, would those who threw the coins have proffered them to be confiscated ? Personally I doubt it. Would the coins have been discovered on search ? Possibly but not certainly. Last year there were fans who deliberately smuggled coins in just show that they could defeat the system ( but didn't throw them ! ). Yesterdays coin throwers might have got them in, and then thrown them just to defy the ban. On the other hand, Steve fairly makes the point that this season whilst they are applying these rules to some clubs there haven't been any incidents - until yesterday that is. It's very difficult to know, particularly if the system itself alienates some fans, as it did last year. But nothing can justify the throwing of coins ( or anything else) and I'm very glad that they were picked up on CCTV.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2024 20:19:43 GMT
If they threw coins they should be ejected . Clearly they were. But the safety rules were relaxed after the OP met the safety officer? And then look what happened Civil liberties campaign eh? Ended well didn't it. People pelted with coins shrugged and said am still glad they had coins as taking coins off people who might throw them is a breach of their human rights It wasn't a "civil liberties campaign" and neither have "human rights" been mentioned by myself either on here or in my discussion with Steve Neil, so please don't introduce that aunt sally. It's about the range of issues I mentioned in my earlier posts.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2024 20:32:25 GMT
If I was a Sunderland fan i'd be asking why in this day and age are you housing away fans above me and my family, when you know that most clubs have their fair share of imbeciles following them away from home? Some of the Sunderland fans organisations have and continue to raise that question and we discussed it in detail with Steve Neil. I think it's fair to say that he would like to relocate the away fans, because he doesn't want this problem to arise and re-occur. But I accept that it's not as simple as it sounds. Relocation would obviously involve compulsorily moving some home fans, and money spent on some physical reconfigurations. And it's not his decision anyway. The local Safety Advisory Group ( the Council) who issue the certificate, will have a view, and will no doubt be influenced by the police, who will be looking at segregation and crowd flows outside the ground, taking account of a planned new footbridge over the river. Away fans used to be at the other end, so it's certainly possible, and I've no doubt that debate will continue in Sunderland.
|
|
|
Post by gobbylar on Jan 28, 2024 20:40:31 GMT
Clearly they were. But the safety rules were relaxed after the OP met the safety officer? And then look what happened Civil liberties campaign eh? Ended well didn't it. People pelted with coins shrugged and said am still glad they had coins as taking coins off people who might throw them is a breach of their human rights It wasn't a "civil liberties campaign" and neither have "human rights" been mentioned by myself either on here or in my discussion with Steve Neil, so please don't introduce that aunt sally. It's about the range of issues I mentioned in my earlier posts. That was the essence of it though. There can't be any other motive. I shall take my leave having clearly posted the "most offensive" post ever seen on Oatcake though Just to say, we can agree Steve Neil and SAFC should be held to account for this and other incidents/polices. In all honesty, recent history suggests this will be not be the case Off the field, Sunderland are a total mess. Maybe by not perhaps really helping in the short term, your actions will help result in progress in the weeks that follow though.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2024 20:56:04 GMT
If I was a Sunderland fan i'd be asking why in this day and age are you housing away fans above me and my family, when you know that most clubs have their fair share of imbeciles following them away from home? Then again, i'd be asking why my club laid out the red carpet for Newcastle United and dressed parts of the stadium up in their colours and slogans. Seems brains are a bit thin on the ground up there. The housing of away fans is questioned repeatedly by Sunderland fans. Reckon it'll change before long The shameful Newcastle carry on for which we will ever be a laughing stock probably ensured that The fact a safety officer relaxed the rules today at the request of a Stoke fan/ FSA rep illustrates how incompetent SAFC are as a club sadly. And that incompetence has been shown to be downright dangerous yet again. Said fan and FSA rep has to take some blame though for a misguided and ill thought out obsession over nothing much in the grand scheme Embarassing and a near miss for all concerned All for what gain? Now all away fans of all clubs will be subject to enhanced search procedures because clearly the risk is too great They still won't put a net up of course because that'd be too sensible The lengthy discussion I had with the Safety manager yesterday, and the discussions I have had with some Sunderland fans reps. stand in contrast to your contributions on here in that they have been respectful of alternative views, detailed and evidence-based. I think to describe your safety manager as incompetent says more about you than it does about him. To say that I should take some of the blame for the coin throwing is very unreasonable, to put it at its most mild. The blame for that lies solely with those who did it, and they must accept the consequences. To describe the legitimate concerns and issues I raised on behalf of the people I represent as an "ill thought out obsession" is risible and insulting. Steve and I did discuss the net solution. Again, this is not as simple as it appears at first sight. The net has to be big enough to stop things being thrown over it, and have a mesh which enables spectators to properly see the game. Those issues are probably soluble, but I gather the senior management of the Club don't like the image which such a net would convey when they want to present football as a welcoming event attractive to families and all sections of society. I understand that. You may be right that away fans will be relocated again (see my post above). I will be very surprised if your assumption that all away fans will now be subject to enhanced searches proves to be correct, but that's obviously a decision for Steve Neill.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2024 21:08:59 GMT
It wasn't a "civil liberties campaign" and neither have "human rights" been mentioned by myself either on here or in my discussion with Steve Neil, so please don't introduce that aunt sally. It's about the range of issues I mentioned in my earlier posts. That was the essence of it though. There can't be any other motive. I shall take my leave having clearly posted the "most offensive" post ever seen on Oatcake though Just to say, we can agree Steve Neil and SAFC should be held to account for this and other incidents/polices. In all honesty, recent history suggests this will be not be the case Off the field, Sunderland are a total mess. Maybe by not perhaps really helping in the short term, your actions will help result in progress in the weeks that follow though. It most certainly wasn't the essence of it or the motivation. It really doesn't help for you to either not closely read what I actually write or ignore it. Of course Steve Neill is responsible for his decisions. I am conscious that as the decision-maker it's his head on the block, not mine or anyone else. Even if I disagree with him on certain points, I very much respect the fact that he was willing to give up 90 minutes of his time to discuss it with me on a match-day and that at the end of that he took the decision to lift the enhanced search. I remain very angry with the 11 Stoke fans who then undermined both myself and Steve Neill by throwing coins, and much more importantly, threatened the safety of the Sunderland fans below. Whilst I don't think your post was the most offensive ever seen on here ( which is setting the bar pretty high !! ), I think it was both offensive to myself and wrong. But I'll get over it, particularly as you are now taking your leave and I won't have to spend any more time responding to you.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2024 21:20:39 GMT
Yesterday's pat down was less invasive than last year, for sure, so thank you for your efforts Malcolm. In relation to the ejections and coin throwing (of which I saw none yesterday), whilst it cannot be condoned, in order to understand the size of the problem, perhaps the following information could be shared. 1 - How many ejections / arrests this season detailed by game of supporters - both home and away 2 - How many arrests / ejection last season detailed by game of supporters - both home and away 3 - How many supporters were investigated / disciplined / had season tickets removed after the repeated throwing of objects towards Alex Neil last season 4 - How many other Championship teams are in the same category as Stoke for invasive searching 5 - Is this level of searching undertaken on home fans, and if not, why not? 6 - What other grounds carry out this level of invasive searching - I'm not aware of any in England 7 - What risk assessments have been undertaken to prevent alleged object throwing from upper tier to lower tier and what adjustments have been made by the club to prevent any occurrence of objects being thrown Perhaps the above information will help the problem to be placed in perspective. Unlike gobbylar, Mutters, I think they are all relevant questions, most of which I discussed with Steve Neil yesterday. On (3) they did ban the fans who threw things at Alex Neil and Dwight Gayle. He gave me their stats for club bans over recent seasons, which have increased a lot post-covid - but I don't think they are alone in this.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2024 21:27:24 GMT
While it seems obvious that Sunderland have a sub-optimal set-up for away fans which invites trouble, and I support Malcom and the FSA’s efforts to mitigate the need for such draconian measures, I think we also have to look at this from their fans’ perspective a bit. The email from the safety officer indicates that they have had no other incidents of missile-throwing this season.. Imagine if you were the parent of a kid in that section yesterday - how would you view a decision taken that very morning to relax the rules around heavy objects taken into the ground? It’s hardly surprising if there’s some anger about it. Finally I’d gently remind any Mackems that all MC and the FSA are interested in is fans’ rights and interests, including safety, and that they have worked tirelessly to stand up for these for all football fans, including Sunderland’s, on countless occasions down the years. I think that's all fair comment, PL. If anyone has any ideas on what we do about some of our young fans, who we want to encourage because they are the future, but whose behaviour on occasions such as yesterday is completely unacceptable, I'd be interested to hear them !
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2024 21:43:54 GMT
A real shame that a few idiots have tarnished us. The work Malcolm does is muchly appreciated! and the matchday experience was great from my perspective. But tbf Malcolm I wouldn’t blame you if you thought I just can’t be arsed anymore. Let’s hope anyone involved in the coin throwing is dealt with and not just a slap on the wrist, I honestly don’t know what goes through someone’s head to think it’s funny to throw a coin down into supporters🤷🏼♂️ Thanks sticky. Much appreciated. It was good to meet you on the train back, and put a face to the name ! If the lad who was arrested is charged and found guilty then he's a nailed on cert for a football banning order, and I won't be offering my services to go to court in Sunderland to support him or offer mitigation ! I don't know if the names of the others who were ejected were collected and passed to Stoke City. If they were, and the CCTV confirms that the ejections were justified, then Stoke will have to decide what to do. Personally, I would impose a ban until the end of the 24/25 season unless they (a) sign a good behaviour contract ;(b) write a public letter of apology to Stoke City and fellow Stoke fans; Sunderland FC and the Sunderland fans on the deck below who might have been hit and injured (c) attend training on the dangers of coin throwing including being made aware of the young Sunderland kid who was injured last season (d) do a set number of hours doing voluntary work for the Club's Community Unit.
|
|
|
Post by sticky on Jan 28, 2024 22:09:20 GMT
A real shame that a few idiots have tarnished us. The work Malcolm does is muchly appreciated! and the matchday experience was great from my perspective. But tbf Malcolm I wouldn’t blame you if you thought I just can’t be arsed anymore. Let’s hope anyone involved in the coin throwing is dealt with and not just a slap on the wrist, I honestly don’t know what goes through someone’s head to think it’s funny to throw a coin down into supporters🤷🏼♂️ Thanks sticky. Much appreciated. It was good to meet you on the train back, and put a face to the name ! If the lad who was arrested is charged and found guilty then he's a nailed on cert for a football banning order, and I won't be offering my services to go to court in Sunderland to support him or offer mitigation ! I don't know if the names of the others who were ejected were collected and passed to Stoke City. If they were, and the CCTV confirms that the ejections were justified, then Stoke will have to decide what to do. Personally, I would impose a ban until the end of the 24/25 season unless they (a) sign a good behaviour contract ;(b) write a public letter of apology to Stoke City and fellow Stoke fans; Sunderland FC and the Sunderland fans on the deck below who might have been hit and injured (c) attend training on the dangers of coin throwing including being made aware of the young Sunderland kid who was injured last season (d) do a set number of hours doing voluntary work for the Club's Community Unit. Nice chat to you Malcolm! And they don’t deserve a second of you’re time. I think all of the above are more than reasonable, you’d like to think they’re showing a bit of remorse today and regretting their actions. You keep doing what you do Malcolm, it’s appreciated by plenty of us! and I’d Imagine the Sunderland fan on here is just frustrated with it all and looking for someone to blame.
|
|