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Post by PotterLog on Jan 25, 2024 13:15:57 GMT
What do you mean “No”? The ref *did* decide it was a foul then? How does that work? On the review the ref decided the player who handled the ball wasn’t fouled. Or, and this is another possibility, he missed the foul because he was focussed on the handball. Of course the ref “followed the rules” - the issue is whether he made the right decision on the review. I don’t quite know what you’re disagreeing with You say, "of course VAR decisions are on pushing and shoving in the box" and I say "no" as in VAR decisions are NOT on pushing and shoving in the box. As per the VAR protocol linked to above. ?? Sorry, are you under the impression that because your words “pushing and shoving” do not appear explicitly in the VAR protocol, it wouldn’t have been possible for the ref to give a foul by the attacker as part of his review of the penalty decision? Seems like this sofa expert might need to brush up on his rules 😉
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Post by jokker on Jan 25, 2024 13:34:37 GMT
You say, "of course VAR decisions are on pushing and shoving in the box" and I say "no" as in VAR decisions are NOT on pushing and shoving in the box. As per the VAR protocol linked to above. ?? Sorry, are you under the impression that because your words “pushing and shoving” do not appear explicitly in the VAR protocol, it wouldn’t have been possible for the ref to give a foul by the attacker as part of his review of the penalty decision? Seems like this sofa expert might need to brush up on his rules 😉 I haven't said that, have I ?
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Post by PotterLog on Jan 25, 2024 13:45:20 GMT
?? Sorry, are you under the impression that because your words “pushing and shoving” do not appear explicitly in the VAR protocol, it wouldn’t have been possible for the ref to give a foul by the attacker as part of his review of the penalty decision? Seems like this sofa expert might need to brush up on his rules 😉 I haven't said that, have I ? What are you saying then? You seem upset that people "don't know the rules" in relation to the Madrid penalty decision, but all you've provided in support is your arbitrary assertion that "VAR decisions are not on pushing and shoving". This is inaccurate - if a push (foul) constitutes a "missed incident" in relation to a penalty, then of course VAR can be used to make a decision on it, per the protocol which you helpfully provided. Essentially there's no reason the ref couldn't have given a foul by the attacker in that review, and people fairly reasonably think he should have.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jan 25, 2024 14:49:02 GMT
What is hard to understand that the handball and push were the same incident and decided by VAR? It wasn't the referees decision it was a VAR decision. Have you actually seen the incident? Have you actually read the rules for the VAR protocol? Here, I'll help you: www.theifab.com/laws/latest/video-assistant-referee-var-protocol/#principlesVar does not make decisions on pushing... I've read that mate so thankyou for that. I especially like the penalty/no penalty point so are we in agreement that it shouldn't have been a penalty for handball as the defender was pushed in the back now? Thankyou for clearing it up.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jan 25, 2024 16:58:36 GMT
I haven't said that, have I ? What are you saying then? You seem upset that people "don't know the rules" in relation to the Madrid penalty decision, but all you've provided in support is your arbitrary assertion that "VAR decisions are not on pushing and shoving". This is inaccurate - if a push (foul) constitutes a "missed incident" in relation to a penalty, then of course VAR can be used to make a decision on it, per the protocol which you helpfully provided. Essentially there's no reason the ref couldn't have given a foul by the attacker in that review, and people fairly reasonably think he should have. Spot on mate. That's how I see it and there's nowt wrong with thinking differently but by the rules of football that should not have been a penalty.
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Post by bertieb on Jan 25, 2024 18:00:04 GMT
Thought the handball was justified his hand was sticking right out, didn't really see a foul, thought the goal was off his shoulder/tee shirt line, but the foul for Almerias disallowed goal was bollox
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Post by idle on Jan 25, 2024 20:39:30 GMT
It's absolutely bonkers that they clearly (as in this incident) decide the outcome of games, but are only allowed to check for some things and not others. Both these actions should have been taken into account (and clearly was with the free kick situastion they pulled back to). This is one of my biggest gripes with VAR. The VAR refs have no clue as to the flow of the game, the temperature on the pitch, the "strictness level" the ref has set for this game. They're like bureaucrats deciding narrowly on a strict set of rules and ignoring all context. If they made decisions on all things what would the game need an on pitch referee for? Their authority is already badly damaged and they look like fools without a clue every time they jog to the monitor. So as not to have the above scenario this strict protocol has been created. But it doesn't help that sometimes the men in the VAR room don't seem to know the protocol either and make decisions that they aren't supposed to make within the letter. It's as if they believe they have absolute powers and must react to every little occurence. They must justify their "existence" by proving that they saw somebody's heel was on one monitor and therefore they make the call on something which no human eye can see. I understand that you and many others, the whole world probably, want absolute correct decisions in all situations. But as I've said above, if VAR has to digest every little situation that one or the other team can object to, then the game has to be stopped all the time and would last 180 minutes - or more. Well, I don't want every correct decision in all situations. I want the game to flow, to feel the ecstacy when we score, and the despair when we concede. VAR was sold to us on the premise that it would drastically improve "fairness" in decisions. It hasn't and it won't. The numbers released on "improved accuracy" have gaping holes in them. It's not fairer when the ref misses two things that even out, but VAR can only react to one of them leading to a game deciding decision. How is that better? For me it's worse, because when it's clear as day that there's an illegal shove in the box but VAR chooses to ignore it, it's making the decisions worse, not better. And this isn't a single incident, this happens every round. So in addition to making what makes the game beautiful worse, the immediateness and the moments, it also doesn't deliver on it's promise. It can't, because the game would devolve into american handegg.
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Post by jokker on Jan 26, 2024 9:29:53 GMT
I haven't said that, have I ? What are you saying then? You seem upset that people "don't know the rules" in relation to the Madrid penalty decision, but all you've provided in support is your arbitrary assertion that "VAR decisions are not on pushing and shoving". This is inaccurate - if a push (foul) constitutes a "missed incident" in relation to a penalty, then of course VAR can be used to make a decision on it, per the protocol which you helpfully provided. Essentially there's no reason the ref couldn't have given a foul by the attacker in that review, and people fairly reasonably think he should have. That's a situation that didn't apply. The review wasn't on the push. It was on the handball.
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Post by jokker on Jan 26, 2024 9:31:13 GMT
I've read that mate so thankyou for that. I especially like the penalty/no penalty point so are we in agreement that it shouldn't have been a penalty for handball as the defender was pushed in the back now? Thankyou for clearing it up. You're no good at manipulating. Stick to the facts.
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Post by jokker on Jan 26, 2024 9:49:14 GMT
If they made decisions on all things what would the game need an on pitch referee for? Their authority is already badly damaged and they look like fools without a clue every time they jog to the monitor. So as not to have the above scenario this strict protocol has been created. But it doesn't help that sometimes the men in the VAR room don't seem to know the protocol either and make decisions that they aren't supposed to make within the letter. It's as if they believe they have absolute powers and must react to every little occurence. They must justify their "existence" by proving that they saw somebody's heel was on one monitor and therefore they make the call on something which no human eye can see. I understand that you and many others, the whole world probably, want absolute correct decisions in all situations. But as I've said above, if VAR has to digest every little situation that one or the other team can object to, then the game has to be stopped all the time and would last 180 minutes - or more. Well, I don't want every correct decision in all situations. I want the game to flow, to feel the ecstacy when we score, and the despair when we concede. VAR was sold to us on the premise that it would drastically improve "fairness" in decisions. It hasn't and it won't. The numbers released on "improved accuracy" have gaping holes in them. It's not fairer when the ref misses two things that even out, but VAR can only react to one of them leading to a game deciding decision. How is that better? For me it's worse, because when it's clear as day that there's an illegal shove in the box but VAR chooses to ignore it, it's making the decisions worse, not better. And this isn't a single incident, this happens every round. So in addition to making what makes the game beautiful worse, the immediateness and the moments, it also doesn't deliver on it's promise. It can't, because the game would devolve into american handegg. You're asking for absolute accuracy in all things yet you know it can't happen. I think VAR has improved football in some respects. We see very few instances of players mugging the referees and we see far fewer examples of players diving, although it hasn't disappeared completely. That's just two examples. VAR hasn't succeeded in solving the impossible. That "result" falls back to those who somehow believed that that was going to happen. It's a big failure in that it's unleashed the beast that the call for accuracy, fairness as you call it, has been answered by the boys in the VAR hub in exposing every little body part that means a player is offside, and plenty of other things. You can't have it both ways, celebrating a goal when it happens, and then not having the goalmouth (or outside) action run through in detail over some minutes. You may want to celebrate the goal we score next, but why should Sunderland fans accept it when it's blatant that Mmaae was offside? So which is it you prefer?
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jan 26, 2024 10:19:06 GMT
I've read that mate so thankyou for that. I especially like the penalty/no penalty point so are we in agreement that it shouldn't have been a penalty for handball as the defender was pushed in the back now? Thankyou for clearing it up. You're no good at manipulating. Stick to the facts. Not trying to manipulate you mate. What a strange thing to come out with. It's your opinion at the end of the day but the rules of the game are that you can't push someone in the back. Therefore it shouldn't have been given as a penalty for handball. Don't really know why you are still arguing the toss really to be honest with you.
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Post by idle on Jan 26, 2024 11:13:31 GMT
You're asking for absolute accuracy in all things yet you know it can't happen. No, you're misunderstanding me. I do not want that accuracy! I want flow, immediacy, ecstasy and tribalism! All the things being a (stadium) fan used to be all about, but has been under attack for years by moneyed interests trying to secure their investments. My point is the same as yours: that the accuracy can't happen unless we devolve into start-stop affairs checking every little detail. But that was the entire point of VAR, right? More accuracy. But now we see that this solution both fails to solve the accuracy "problem", and at the same time changes the sport for the worse. I want VAR to be banned. That's my stance. I think VAR has improved football in some respects. We see very few instances of players mugging the referees and we see far fewer examples of players diving, although it hasn't disappeared completely. That's just two examples. I disagree on both of these counts. The first one is a failure of referees being protected by the FA, and in todays TV football world could easily have been done without VAR. In fact, I fail to see how VAR is involved in this at all. The diving hasn't decreased at all. It's increased by a magnitude. Players now go down on the slightest touch because they know that VAR will interpret any touch as a foul. Just listen to the commentators. "There's definite contact there! Surely a penalty!". Players even try to hit defenders in the arms FFS. You can't have it both ways, celebrating a goal when it happens, and then not having the goalmouth (or outside) action run through in detail over some minutes. You may want to celebrate the goal we score next, but why should Sunderland fans accept it when it's blatant that Mmaae was offside? So which is it you prefer? I don't want it both ways. I want VAR banished to the pits of hell. So what if it was offside? We have line refs for that. See the ball go in, quick glance at the lino, and either go nuts or sigh/moan about a bent lino. The way football was meant to be. Not waiting several minutes for a millimeter decision. The offside rule used to be easy. If the refs weren't sure if it was offside or if it was an advantage, let the attacking team benefit. There. Solved. No using lines on camera footage that may or may not represent reality (look up lens curving), no measuring offside in the armpits of players, and no "his dick is swinging forward at the time of the pass so it's offside". Not to mention the pure physics of it. At 60fps, how far have the ball gone? And what's the definition of "when the ball was hit", when the foot hit the ball or when it left the foot? My point is: VAR ruins football. It has not increased accuracy, and has lead to several degradations in the way the game is handled. Rule changes (handball, offside), changes in physicality in the direction of a non-contact sport, and increased costs for multi-million pounds VAR infrastructure. Money that could be spent on more and better trained refs. And that's in addition to degrading the stadium experience. As for this game, big-club-bias has always been real. It's just as real, or even more it seems, for the VAR refs. Who we cannot even see.
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Post by PotterLog on Jan 26, 2024 13:10:26 GMT
What are you saying then? You seem upset that people "don't know the rules" in relation to the Madrid penalty decision, but all you've provided in support is your arbitrary assertion that "VAR decisions are not on pushing and shoving". This is inaccurate - if a push (foul) constitutes a "missed incident" in relation to a penalty, then of course VAR can be used to make a decision on it, per the protocol which you helpfully provided. Essentially there's no reason the ref couldn't have given a foul by the attacker in that review, and people fairly reasonably think he should have. That's a situation that didn't apply. The review wasn't on the push. It was on the handball. And you know this how exactly? You have no idea whether the VAR didn’t say “possible handball and possible push by attacking player”. You also have no idea whether the on-pitch ref didn’t consider it of his own accord when watching the replay, also a possibility. More than one element of an incident can be looked at in the same review. You seem determined to speak with authority on this but you’re just painting yourself into corners with these arbitrary (and flawed) pronouncements like “VAR is not for pushing and shoving” and “the review was [only] on the handball”. The ref could have given the foul for the push on the review - including even if the VAR only referred the handball. End of story.
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Post by jokker on Jan 27, 2024 9:15:13 GMT
That's a situation that didn't apply. The review wasn't on the push. It was on the handball. And you know this how exactly? You have no idea whether the VAR didn’t say “possible handball and possible push by attacking player”. You also have no idea whether the on-pitch ref didn’t consider it of his own accord when watching the replay, also a possibility. More than one element of an incident can be looked at in the same review. You seem determined to speak with authority on this but you’re just painting yourself into corners with these arbitrary (and flawed) pronouncements like “VAR is not for pushing and shoving” and “the review was [only] on the handball”. The ref could have given the foul for the push on the review - including even if the VAR only referred the handball. End of story. I know this because VAR reviews ‘serious missed incident’. Pushing is not a serious incident. It's what the Germans call 'Allerweltsfaul". It happens all the time. But you're right. I have no idea what goes through the mind of the on-pitch referee, so I don't try to interpret that. And neither shoould you, because you too have no idea.
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Post by jokker on Jan 27, 2024 9:24:51 GMT
You're no good at manipulating. Stick to the facts. Not trying to manipulate you mate. What a strange thing to come out with. It's your opinion at the end of the day but the rules of the game are that you can't push someone in the back. Therefore it shouldn't have been given as a penalty for handball. Don't really know why you are still arguing the toss really to be honest with you. You said a few posts before that you would stop because you were fighting a losing battle, yet you went on regardless, and now you blame me for carrying on. Now you say "I especially like the penalty/no penalty" without explaining why you think this substabtiates your biased opinion that a penalty should not have been given by VAR. Clearly you're wrong, because the fact is a penalty was given by VAR. Are you a greater authority than they are? Of course you're not. Now it's Saturday and in a few hours you will have a few more decisions to ponder, discuss, and tear your hair out over. Pick someone else to fight your losing battles with today.
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Post by jokker on Jan 27, 2024 9:57:07 GMT
You're asking for absolute accuracy in all things yet you know it can't happen. No, you're misunderstanding me. I do not want that accuracy! I want flow, immediacy, ecstasy and tribalism! All the things being a (stadium) fan used to be all about, but has been under attack for years by moneyed interests trying to secure their investments. My point is the same as yours: that the accuracy can't happen unless we devolve into start-stop affairs checking every little detail. But that was the entire point of VAR, right? More accuracy. But now we see that this solution both fails to solve the accuracy "problem", and at the same time changes the sport for the worse. I want VAR to be banned. That's my stance. I think VAR has improved football in some respects. We see very few instances of players mugging the referees and we see far fewer examples of players diving, although it hasn't disappeared completely. That's just two examples. I disagree on both of these counts. The first one is a failure of referees being protected by the FA, and in todays TV football world could easily have been done without VAR. In fact, I fail to see how VAR is involved in this at all. The diving hasn't decreased at all. It's increased by a magnitude. Players now go down on the slightest touch because they know that VAR will interpret any touch as a foul. Just listen to the commentators. "There's definite contact there! Surely a penalty!". Players even try to hit defenders in the arms FFS. You can't have it both ways, celebrating a goal when it happens, and then not having the goalmouth (or outside) action run through in detail over some minutes. You may want to celebrate the goal we score next, but why should Sunderland fans accept it when it's blatant that Mmaae was offside? So which is it you prefer? I don't want it both ways. I want VAR banished to the pits of hell. So what if it was offside? We have line refs for that. See the ball go in, quick glance at the lino, and either go nuts or sigh/moan about a bent lino. The way football was meant to be. Not waiting several minutes for a millimeter decision. The offside rule used to be easy. If the refs weren't sure if it was offside or if it was an advantage, let the attacking team benefit. There. Solved. No using lines on camera footage that may or may not represent reality (look up lens curving), no measuring offside in the armpits of players, and no "his dick is swinging forward at the time of the pass so it's offside". Not to mention the pure physics of it. At 60fps, how far have the ball gone? And what's the definition of "when the ball was hit", when the foot hit the ball or when it left the foot? My point is: VAR ruins football. It has not increased accuracy, and has lead to several degradations in the way the game is handled. Rule changes (handball, offside), changes in physicality in the direction of a non-contact sport, and increased costs for multi-million pounds VAR infrastructure. Money that could be spent on more and better trained refs. And that's in addition to degrading the stadium experience. As for this game, big-club-bias has always been real. It's just as real, or even more it seems, for the VAR refs. Who we cannot even see. I agree with you on one thing. The offside law used to be easy, and it's not now. Now I just wait for decisions to be made and hopefully explainedd (not helped by the ref symbols either). You can ban VAR, as you suggest, but that doesn't change the need for proper decisions to be made. Give it a few months without it, and there will be demands for it to reintroduced, not the same system, but in a different way - which one I don't know. It's easy to forget how much aggro there was out on the pitch up until a few years ago. But you don't seem to remember how much of it refs faced, because bizarrely you claim the FA protect refs. The FA can't protect the refs when a bunch of Chelsea or Arsenal players surround the ref with insults and aggressive body language. They can issue minor bans afterwards, but these have very little impact. VAR helped this because players tend to believe in the technology, and even if they don't, by the time the final decision is made by VAR, players' adrenaline has dropped to a more adequate level and the need to take aggression out on the ref is subsided, becaause it's no longer he that's made the decision but some men in a distant video hub. I don't know whether VAr has anything to do with it, and it's gonna be difficult to prove one way or the other, but the way I see games there's a lot more flowing football than there were some years ago. Granted I don't watch much English football anymore, just Stoke's games, so I'm basing this more on international games.
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Post by idle on Jan 27, 2024 10:13:21 GMT
You can ban VAR, as you suggest, but that doesn't change the need for proper decisions to be made. Give it a few months without it, and there will be demands for it to reintroduced, not the same system, but in a different way - which one I don't know. You don't know that. On the contrary, most fans are against VAR now that we've tried it. It's easy to forget how much aggro there was out on the pitch up until a few years ago. But you don't seem to remember how much of it refs faced, because bizarrely you claim the FA protect refs. The FA can't protect the refs when a bunch of Chelsea or Arsenal players surround the ref with insults and aggressive body language. They can issue minor bans afterwards, but these have very little impact. VAR helped this because players tend to believe in the technology, and even if they don't, by the time the final decision is made by VAR, players' adrenaline has dropped to a more adequate level and the need to take aggression out on the ref is subsided, becaause it's no longer he that's made the decision but some men in a distant video hub. I fail to see how VAR helps this in any way. They even had to introduce the auto-yellow for moaning to the ref to combat it, and there is VAR in the PL. But you don't see PL games anymore, so you wouldn't know. The problem here is failure to ban the players and clubs being aggressive. That has nothing to do with VAR. They already have all the cameras they need to punish the offenders after the games, and the refs should just stick the yellow card to their foreheads and anyone coming within 5 yards gets one! I don't know whether VAr has anything to do with it, and it's gonna be difficult to prove one way or the other, but the way I see games there's a lot more flowing football than there were some years ago. Granted I don't watch much English football anymore, just Stoke's games, so I'm basing this more on international games. This doesn't match my experience at all, but I could be wrong. Either way, the issue isn't the general flow of the game, it's the time the VAR decisions take. It's killing the spontaneous reaction of the game changing decisions. From watching a lot of German football, it does seem that there's much more cheating in english football, especially in the PL and championship. But since the germans also have VAR, I don't think that's connected. It's just that the stakes are higher in the PL and CS. Plus, in Germany the clubs are owned by the fans and the english clubs are for the most part owned by sociapathic murderes and capitalists. Culture does matter IMO.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jan 27, 2024 10:33:33 GMT
Not trying to manipulate you mate. What a strange thing to come out with. It's your opinion at the end of the day but the rules of the game are that you can't push someone in the back. Therefore it shouldn't have been given as a penalty for handball. Don't really know why you are still arguing the toss really to be honest with you. You said a few posts before that you would stop because you were fighting a losing battle, yet you went on regardless, and now you blame me for carrying on. Now you say "I especially like the penalty/no penalty" without explaining why you think this substabtiates your biased opinion that a penalty should not have been given by VAR. Clearly you're wrong, because the fact is a penalty was given by VAR. Are you a greater authority than they are? Of course you're not. Now it's Saturday and in a few hours you will have a few more decisions to ponder, discuss, and tear your hair out over. Pick someone else to fight your losing battles with today. So you are saying that because VAR and the ref gave it then it is correct and noone can say it's the wrong decision? I'm not tearing my hair out over anything. It shouldn't have been a penalty as the player was pushed in the back. You clearly don't realise that VAR can pick up fouls aswell as looking at the handball so there isn't any point in arguing with you is there.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 27, 2024 11:43:53 GMT
You said a few posts before that you would stop because you were fighting a losing battle, yet you went on regardless, and now you blame me for carrying on. Now you say "I especially like the penalty/no penalty" without explaining why you think this substabtiates your biased opinion that a penalty should not have been given by VAR. Clearly you're wrong, because the fact is a penalty was given by VAR. Are you a greater authority than they are? Of course you're not. Now it's Saturday and in a few hours you will have a few more decisions to ponder, discuss, and tear your hair out over. Pick someone else to fight your losing battles with today. So you are saying that because VAR and the ref gave it then it is correct and noone can say it's the wrong decision? I'm not tearing my hair out over anything. It shouldn't have been a penalty as the player was pushed in the back. You clearly don't realise that VAR can pick up fouls aswell as looking at the handball so there isn't any point in arguing with you is there. He’s a Real Madrid fan, you won’t win 😂.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jan 27, 2024 12:23:32 GMT
So you are saying that because VAR and the ref gave it then it is correct and noone can say it's the wrong decision? I'm not tearing my hair out over anything. It shouldn't have been a penalty as the player was pushed in the back. You clearly don't realise that VAR can pick up fouls aswell as looking at the handball so there isn't any point in arguing with you is there. He’s a Real Madrid fan, you won’t win 😂. I have gathered that mate 😅 The thing is it was a blatant push in the back that the VAR should be picking up because it lead directly to the handball. How anyone can argue against that is beyond me but each to their own.
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Post by jokker on Jan 27, 2024 12:33:35 GMT
You said a few posts before that you would stop because you were fighting a losing battle, yet you went on regardless, and now you blame me for carrying on. Now you say "I especially like the penalty/no penalty" without explaining why you think this substabtiates your biased opinion that a penalty should not have been given by VAR. Clearly you're wrong, because the fact is a penalty was given by VAR. Are you a greater authority than they are? Of course you're not. Now it's Saturday and in a few hours you will have a few more decisions to ponder, discuss, and tear your hair out over. Pick someone else to fight your losing battles with today. So you are saying that because VAR and the ref gave it then it is correct and noone can say it's the wrong decision? I'm not tearing my hair out over anything. It shouldn't have been a penalty as the player was pushed in the back. You clearly don't realise that VAR can pick up fouls aswell as looking at the handball so there isn't any point in arguing with you is there. It's a free country: you can say what you bloody like. VAr can "pick up fouls", as you put it, if they are a ‘serious missed incident’. Pushing, which happens all the time in football - just count the amount of times in today's game - doesn't fall into that category.
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Post by jokker on Jan 27, 2024 12:39:37 GMT
You can ban VAR, as you suggest, but that doesn't change the need for proper decisions to be made. Give it a few months without it, and there will be demands for it to reintroduced, not the same system, but in a different way - which one I don't know. You don't know that. On the contrary, most fans are against VAR now that we've tried it. Just look at the demand for technology for years before VAR was introduced. Just look at the heavily contested decisions before VAR came. Look at all the managers, such as Klopp, Mourinho et al demanding that it be introduced, something which FIFA opposed for years. They'll just have to come up with something better.
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Post by idle on Jan 27, 2024 12:51:37 GMT
You don't know that. On the contrary, most fans are against VAR now that we've tried it. Just look at the demand for technology for years before VAR was introduced. Just look at the heavily contested decisions before VAR came. Look at all the managers, such as Klopp, Mourinho et al demanding that it be introduced, something which FIFA opposed for years. They'll just have to come up with something better. Well, none of these are fans. I know we don't matter much in England, but we do in other countries. Of course the money interests demanded it, they thought it would secure their investments. It failed, even in that. All of your examples are also from before VAR was introduced. We've seen how it works now, as frankly it sucks big time. Just look at the heavily contested VAR decision every week. Look at the managers, Klopp, Arteta, etc. demanding replays of matches. In my country, the only ones that keep wanting VAR are the referees, because without it they can't get into the continental competitions. I give it one more year at most, and it's gone. The Swedes never introduced it, due to fans and club democracy.
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Post by PotterLog on Jan 27, 2024 12:53:38 GMT
And you know this how exactly? You have no idea whether the VAR didn’t say “possible handball and possible push by attacking player”. You also have no idea whether the on-pitch ref didn’t consider it of his own accord when watching the replay, also a possibility. More than one element of an incident can be looked at in the same review. You seem determined to speak with authority on this but you’re just painting yourself into corners with these arbitrary (and flawed) pronouncements like “VAR is not for pushing and shoving” and “the review was [only] on the handball”. The ref could have given the foul for the push on the review - including even if the VAR only referred the handball. End of story. I know this because VAR reviews ‘serious missed incident’. Pushing is not a serious incident. It's what the Germans call 'Allerweltsfaul". It happens all the time. But you're right. I have no idea what goes through the mind of the on-pitch referee, so I don't try to interpret that. And neither shoould you, because you too have no idea. Right, we can add “pushing is not a serious incident” to the list of any old nonsense you’re committed to making up about this 😅
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Post by jokker on Jan 27, 2024 13:07:42 GMT
Just look at the demand for technology for years before VAR was introduced. Just look at the heavily contested decisions before VAR came. Look at all the managers, such as Klopp, Mourinho et al demanding that it be introduced, something which FIFA opposed for years. They'll just have to come up with something better. Well, none of these are fans. I know we don't matter much in England, but we do in other countries. Of course the money interests demanded it, they thought it would secure their investments. It failed, even in that. All of your examples are also from before VAR was introduced. We've seen how it works now, as frankly it sucks big time. Just look at the heavily contested VAR decision every week. Look at the managers, Klopp, Arteta, etc. demanding replays of matches. In my country, the only ones that keep wanting VAR are the referees, because without it they can't get into the continental competitions. I give it one more year at most, and it's gone. The Swedes never introduced it, due to fans and club democracy. There were plenty of fans, not in thousands, but millions, who were yearning for it - not knowing what they'd get, of course. Fifa just doesn't pay attention to them any which way, never have never will. Yes I mentioned Klopp excatly for the reason that he is its biggest enemy now. I guarantee that if he has a job in a year he'll be demanding a new technology, though he has no solutions. I don't think referees are best pleased with it at all. They've lost their authority and look fools every time they trudge off to the monitor.
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Post by jokker on Jan 27, 2024 13:08:32 GMT
I know this because VAR reviews ‘serious missed incident’. Pushing is not a serious incident. It's what the Germans call 'Allerweltsfaul". It happens all the time. But you're right. I have no idea what goes through the mind of the on-pitch referee, so I don't try to interpret that. And neither shoould you, because you too have no idea. Right, we can add “pushing is not a serious incident” to the list of any old nonsense you’re committed to making up about this 😅 You can do what you bloody like.
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Post by jokker on Jan 27, 2024 13:52:55 GMT
You mentioned Sweden and you've mentioned handball before. As fate would have it, there were two controversial decisions in the dying seconds of the semifinal Sweden vs France yesterday, and both decisions went against Sweden. The referees had video available to them, but disregarded it. Fatally because both decisons were wrong and Sweden was robbed of a place in the final. I dare say there will be some in Sweden who will demand more video technology in future games. Although it doesn't really matter, as they would have been meeting Denmark in the final. So now Denmark have to win the final for themselves but for the Swedes too.
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Post by idle on Jan 27, 2024 14:01:42 GMT
You mentioned Sweden and you've mentioned handball before. As fate would have it, there were two controversial decisions in the dying seconds of the semifinal Sweden vs France yesterday, and both decisions went against Sweden. The referees had video available to them, but disregarded it. Fatally because both decisons were wrong and Sweden was robbed of a place in the final. I dare say there will be some in Sweden who will demand more video technology in future games. Although it doesn't really matter, as they would have been meeting Denmark in the final. So now Denmark have to win the final for themselves but for the Swedes too. And good luck in that game! Sometimes the decisions go against you, but the game flow is different in handball. Not to mention a single goal doesn't matter as much as in football. I don't follow handball enough to know if VAR is good or not. I know it seems to work in Rugby. But in football, the disadvantages are way bigger than the advantages.
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Post by jokker on Jan 27, 2024 14:19:59 GMT
So you are saying that because VAR and the ref gave it then it is correct and noone can say it's the wrong decision? I'm not tearing my hair out over anything. It shouldn't have been a penalty as the player was pushed in the back. You clearly don't realise that VAR can pick up fouls aswell as looking at the handball so there isn't any point in arguing with you is there. He’s a Real Madrid fan, you won’t win 😂. I haven't even mentioned Real. This is just a real football decision.
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Post by jokker on Jan 27, 2024 14:23:44 GMT
Not to mention a single goal doesn't matter as much as in football. It did matter in this game, because instead of Sweden winning by one goal, it was a draw, and there was extra time which France won.
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