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Post by brizzlestokie on Nov 29, 2023 14:49:24 GMT
I was happy when we appointed AN because I thought he was our first appointment in a while who was definitely a good manager at this level.
Now he's been here a year with zero success, I look at who the good managers at this level are, and it's basically all managers whose careers have only really started in the past few years.
So, has the managerial standard in the Championship simply increased significantly in the past few years and previously 'good' managers like AN no longer are?
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Post by TinkerT on Nov 29, 2023 14:55:46 GMT
I think a lot of it is about culture and creating a team spirit with a strong spine. When you look at the likes of Ipswich Southampton Leeds West brom Leicester they all have a solid spine with a manager who has a defined way of playing and each player knows exactly what they're doing. Look at us we've got a spine like the dog and duck and a manager who's playing players not in form and players who can't create a sausage and then wonder why we can't score goals with players like gayle leading the line. All absolute shocking. I think Alex has actually done some good work getting rid of the dead wood but he's doing no help playing absolute shithouses like Johnson when you've got players twice as good as him warming the bench or not even in the squad. Sidibe has looked quality when he's played and can't even find himself a place on the bench.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Nov 29, 2023 14:56:11 GMT
I was happy when we appointed AN because I thought he was our first appointment in a while who was definitely a good manager at this level. Now he's been here a year with zero success, I look at who the good managers at this level are, and it's basically all managers whose careers have only really started in the past few years. So, has the managerial standard in the Championship simply increased significantly in the past few years and previously 'good' managers like AN no longer are? He has a promotion at this level with a very good Norwich side, that's it |
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Post by LGH87 on Nov 29, 2023 15:02:22 GMT
I think a lot of it is about culture and creating a team spirit with a strong spine. When you look at the likes of Ipswich Southampton Leeds West brom Leicester they all have a solid spine with a manager who has a defined way of playing and each player knows exactly what they're doing. Look at us we've got a spine like the dog and duck and a manager who's playing players not in form and players who can't create a sausage and then wonder why we can't score goals with players like gayle leading the line. All absolute shocking. I think Alex has actually done some good work getting rid of the dead wood but he's doing no help playing absolute shithouses like Johnson when you've got players twice as good as him warming the bench or not even in the squad. Sidibe has looked quality when he's played and can't even find himself a place on the bench. Nail on head. You don't even need to have superstars or big name players in this league. Look at Ipswich, none of their players are household names and they're so far ahead of us it's borderline ridiculous. A strong spine, some strength, some pace and players that can last 90 mins in this league is all you really need. Add a semi competent finisher or two to that mix and you'll probably win the league. |
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Post by HarryTheHat on Nov 29, 2023 15:15:54 GMT
I think a lot of it is about culture and creating a team spirit with a strong spine. When you look at the likes of Ipswich Southampton Leeds West brom Leicester they all have a solid spine with a manager who has a defined way of playing and each player knows exactly what they're doing. Look at us we've got a spine like the dog and duck and a manager who's playing players not in form and players who can't create a sausage and then wonder why we can't score goals with players like gayle leading the line. All absolute shocking. I think Alex has actually done some good work getting rid of the dead wood but he's doing no help playing absolute shithouses like Johnson when you've got players twice as good as him warming the bench or not even in the squad. Sidibe has looked quality when he's played and can't even find himself a place on the bench. Nail on head. You don't even need to have superstars or big name players in this league. Look at Ipswich, none of their players are household names and they're so far ahead of us it's borderline ridiculous. A strong spine, some strength, some pace and players that can last 90 mins in this league is all you really need. Add a semi competent finisher or two to that mix and you'll probably win the league. That's about the size of it It worked for Lou and it worked for TP |
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Post by matelot1996 on Nov 29, 2023 17:12:55 GMT
Didn’t he get promoted via play offs with Norwich once with a shit hot squad of players?
Then got immediately relegated?
He then got promoted with a Div one behemoth again with the best squad in the league.
I’m not overly excited by his achievements.
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Post by hoppo96 on Nov 29, 2023 17:39:25 GMT
I was happy when we appointed AN because I thought he was our first appointment in a while who was definitely a good manager at this level. Now he's been here a year with zero success, I look at who the good managers at this level are, and it's basically all managers whose careers have only really started in the past few years. So, has the managerial standard in the Championship simply increased significantly in the past few years and previously 'good' managers like AN no longer are? I think the standard has definitely increased, it has in the Premier League with managers like Marco Silva, Unai Emery, Roberto De Zerbi, Thomas Frank at non top 6 clubs. It means some would-be PL managers in the past now manage at this level instead. Its also led to a lot of the 'traditional' british managers being unceremoniously booted out of the game. Love the guy but do wonder if Pulis ever thought his last job would be a few weeks at Sheffield Wednesday. Or Mark Hughes at League Two Bradford City. Alex Neil is a respectable championship manager but nothing more. And he's come to a club that has clearly had considerable problems off the pitch and can't get a proper structure in place. He's probably assumed otherwise and has had a massive shock here. If it was 2004 again and we were skint, we'd be fine with him. But we're not the underdogs of this league, we have resources other clubs could only dream of, ever taking into mind FFP. A lot of managers have been 'shown up' in the last few years for having a lack of tactics into their game. In 2023, you can't be a successful manager based on vibes and shouting at players. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 29, 2023 17:49:09 GMT
He’s been left behind by younger more progressive and proactive managers (I know he’s younger than he looks). It’s time to stop fucking about with these turgid dinosaurs and get someone in with the enthusiasm to build an identity for the team and club
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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 29, 2023 18:52:47 GMT
I was happy when we appointed AN because I thought he was our first appointment in a while who was definitely a good manager at this level. Now he's been here a year with zero success, I look at who the good managers at this level are, and it's basically all managers whose careers have only really started in the past few years. So, has the managerial standard in the Championship simply increased significantly in the past few years and previously 'good' managers like AN no longer are? He has a promotion at this level with a very good Norwich side, that's it Took over a side who we’re just outside the play offs and didn’t need to change the playing staff. Went up via the play offs. Got relegated. Made a bollocks of his summer recruitment and got sacked in March. Roberto Di Matteo and Tony Barton both won the European Cup. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2023 0:12:24 GMT
I am not sure how much they have changed?
George Graham ( arsenal) used to say ...never sign a player who is dropping down a level, they will think they are doing you a favour.
George preferred signing the likes of David seaman ( QPR and before that Peterborough) , Lee Dixon ( stoke and before that bury ) , Steve bould ( stoke ) , Ian Wright ( crystal palace and before that Greenwich Boro ) , Perry groves ( Colchester United) , Anders limpar ( Cremonese) , though arsenal could easily have afforded to pay big money for big name players .
People will say that is 25 years ago etc , but it also has a strong resemblance to how Brighton and Brentford are run in 2023 .
Read Nathan Collins for Steve bould
Read Evan Ferguson for Ian Wright etc .
They are trying to sign hungry players on the up , like George Graham.
If the folks that run Brighton and Brentford ran stoke , they wouldn't be trying to sign Dwight Gayle, Ciaran Clark etc and drag them over to the potteries .
I read Paul mersons autobiography...lots of I was stupid ...drink drugs blah blah.
But he was adamant that George Graham was spot on, insisting everyone at arsenal was on a third basic money, third win bonuses, third trophy bonuses .
He reckoned loads of footballers were out and out lazy and if the only way to bag the cash was to up your game and be in the first team and win trophies. Then be in the first team and win trophies was what they would do .
20 odd years ago blah blah...but the mentality is there at Brighton and Brentford today...Alexi McAlister, Nathan Collins etc , join us, play to the max and make a ton of money.
What's really really out of date in the world of football is Ricky Martin's management speak and stateside Jared's bullshit .
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Post by baconburger on Nov 30, 2023 8:41:44 GMT
He’s been left behind by younger more progressive and proactive managers (I know he’s younger than he looks). It’s time to stop fucking about with these turgid dinosaurs and get someone in with the enthusiasm to build an identity for the team and club It’s the way the owners and a big chunk of the fan base see the game. They still think the turgid dross can be successful despite all the evidence. Progressive is a dirty word to them they want defensive attritional football, they live in a time warp. |
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Post by J-Roar on Nov 30, 2023 9:31:10 GMT
Times changed years ago. Unfortunately, the Coates's vision in catching the Internet gambling wave is diametrically opposite to their vision in how football has changed.
For bet365 you have a frontrunner that has forged ahead and us incredibly successful. For Stoke City you have a stuck in the mud outfit who are trying the same thing every time and hoping for a different result.
Like a chain of betting shops trying to compete with online betting firms.
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Post by LGH87 on Nov 30, 2023 9:42:40 GMT
He’s been left behind by younger more progressive and proactive managers (I know he’s younger than he looks). It’s time to stop fucking about with these turgid dinosaurs and get someone in with the enthusiasm to build an identity for the team and club It’s the way the owners and a big chunk of the fan base see the game. They still think the turgid dross can be successful despite all the evidence. Progressive is a dirty word to them they want defensive attritional football, they live in a time warp. Pretty much like the city on a whole. |
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Post by tuum on Nov 30, 2023 13:29:17 GMT
We should bring in Bojan as Director of Football and install Shawcross as Head Coach or whatever managers are called these days. Sorted. Everyone is happy. Shawcross has already said he wants to play attacking football... although I have a friend who says coaches build teams in their own image so an ex-defender is more likely to build a team that is focused on not conceeding. It can't be any worse than what we have now.
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Post by J-Roar on Nov 30, 2023 13:44:41 GMT
We should bring in Bojan as Director of Football and install Shawcross as Head Coach or whatever managers are called these days. Sorted. Everyone is happy. Shawcross has already said he wants to play attacking football... although I have a friend who says coaches build teams in their own image so an ex-defender is more likely to build a team that is focused on not conceeding. It can't be any worse than what we have now. Know the club... |
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Post by vidigal7 on Nov 30, 2023 13:48:50 GMT
He’s been left behind by younger more progressive and proactive managers (I know he’s younger than he looks). It’s time to stop fucking about with these turgid dinosaurs and get someone in with the enthusiasm to build an identity for the team and club Who is your man? 3 promotions at the age of 42 isn't a shabby c.v |
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Post by cvillestokie on Nov 30, 2023 16:19:55 GMT
I feel like everything in this league has dropped off.
For managers, I think there’s a lack of independent thought. Every manager has watched Man City play and decided that’s the way to go. Every manager has failed to recognize that they don’t have the budget of Man City and frankly, they aren’t Pep.
I’ve always preferred watching a team play long diagonals and then trying to put the ball on the deck in the opposition half. It’s so boring watching games where the playmaker is a failed midfielder who just happens to be able to occasional header a ball so is now playing in defence.
I think that managers fail now because the game is so uniform.
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Post by rotweiss79 on Nov 30, 2023 20:11:34 GMT
He’s been left behind by younger more progressive and proactive managers (I know he’s younger than he looks). It’s time to stop fucking about with these turgid dinosaurs and get someone in with the enthusiasm to build an identity for the team and club Nathan Jones ?? |
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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 30, 2023 20:24:51 GMT
He’s been left behind by younger more progressive and proactive managers (I know he’s younger than he looks). It’s time to stop fucking about with these turgid dinosaurs and get someone in with the enthusiasm to build an identity for the team and club Who is your man? 3 promotions at the age of 42 isn't a shabby c.v 22 wins in 64 games on the other hand is fucking awful. |
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Post by march4 on Nov 30, 2023 20:29:55 GMT
It’s all about leadership. Always was and always will be. It never changes.
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Post by thornestein on Nov 30, 2023 20:47:58 GMT
It’s all about leadership. Always was and always will be. It never changes. and Neil is clearly no leader , he cant even motivate the players on the pitch never mind manage the game |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2023 20:50:31 GMT
He's turning us into Preston when he was their manager.
A team just making up the numbers.
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Post by march4 on Nov 30, 2023 21:24:06 GMT
Who is your man? 3 promotions at the age of 42 isn't a shabby c.v 22 wins in 64 games on the other hand is fucking awful. 18 wins in 64 for Waddo. 23 wins in 64 for TP. It takes time to change the culture. |
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Post by RF10 on Nov 30, 2023 22:55:29 GMT
22 wins in 64 games on the other hand is fucking awful. 18 wins in 64 for Waddo. 23 wins in 64 for TP. It takes time to change the culture. Different times and culture. Using a manager as example from 60 years ago isn't relative. If your going to use TP as an example use his stats under Coates ownership. |
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Post by milton58 on Nov 30, 2023 23:16:12 GMT
In Alex we trust
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Post by NassauDave on Dec 1, 2023 3:25:43 GMT
No we don't. He's a 🔔 end. |
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Post by baconburger on Dec 1, 2023 7:46:54 GMT
He’s been left behind by younger more progressive and proactive managers (I know he’s younger than he looks). It’s time to stop fucking about with these turgid dinosaurs and get someone in with the enthusiasm to build an identity for the team and club Nathan Jones ?? Right idea wrong man but that now in their minds somehow precludes that type of appointment ever again. Stick to the type that’s been failing over and over instead. What is the fascination with dour, I’ve been going to Stoke games for 40 odd years and we’ve had some of the dourest managers imaginable. Why do we constantly seem to go for that type? |
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Post by roylandstoke on Dec 1, 2023 8:12:11 GMT
22 wins in 64 games on the other hand is fucking awful. 18 wins in 64 for Waddo. 23 wins in 64 for TP. It takes time to change the culture. Both managing clubs that were virtually bankrupt. This fella has been given more support from the owners than any manager in this division. There are no signs at all of him doing any work to change the culture or to coach the players. TP and Waddo both had clear plans for they would build a team from the back. This fella’s scatter gun approach to transfers has left us with a squad that has: 1 average back up keeper as first choice, one true LB, 3 OK CBs and an assortment of lightweight inside forwards who he doesn’t seem to like. Nathan Jones had a plan; it was mental but you could see what he intended. Alex Neil has no plan. His past successes have been with decent groups of players that he inherited. TP and Waddo were totally committed to our club. They worked hard and had a vision. Alex Neil seems totally committed to himself. |
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Post by baconburger on Dec 1, 2023 16:41:23 GMT
18 wins in 64 for Waddo. 23 wins in 64 for TP. It takes time to change the culture. Both managing clubs that were virtually bankrupt. This fella has been given more support from the owners than any manager in this division. There are no signs at all of him doing any work to change the culture or to coach the players. TP and Waddo both had clear plans for they would build a team from the back. This fella’s scatter gun approach to transfers has left us with a squad that has: 1 average back up keeper as first choice, one true LB, 3 OK CBs and an assortment of lightweight inside forwards who he doesn’t seem to like. Nathan Jones had a plan; it was mental but you could see what he intended. Alex Neil has no plan. His past successes have been with decent groups of players that he inherited. TP and Waddo were totally committed to our club. They worked hard and had a vision. Alex Neil seems totally committed to himself. You don’t get time to build a club from the back. If you can’t get them scoring goals and winning games in fairly short order you get the sack. AN’s team are scoring less goals than he got a team of players not of his choice scoring. Despite some woeful results at least we scored 3/4 goals semi reasonably frequently last season unfortunately this is more like what I expected from him. Far too much focus on not conceding and failing at it fairly regularly while the other end is neglected. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2023 16:54:16 GMT
I feel like everything in this league has dropped off. For managers, I think there’s a lack of independent thought. Every manager has watched Man City play and decided that’s the way to go. Every manager has failed to recognize that they don’t have the budget of Man City and frankly, they aren’t Pep. I’ve always preferred watching a team play long diagonals and then trying to put the ball on the deck in the opposition half. It’s so boring watching games where the playmaker is a failed midfielder who just happens to be able to occasional header a ball so is now playing in defence. I think that managers fail now because the game is so uniform. It is very uniform and very dull . You would have to find the players and that would not be easy. But if a premier League team today was to go old fashioned 4 4 2 with say a Giggs and Beckham wide , and an Alan shearer and Duncan Ferguson down the middle, a lot of premier league sides would struggle. Not many centre half's of today would fancy physically having to overpower shearer and Duncan Ferguson time and time again, with a succession of quality crosses being whipped in . |
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