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Post by Veritas on Nov 8, 2023 22:51:01 GMT
Anyone standing will obscure the view of people sitting behind, which is a key issue for many who are not in favour of reintroduction. Logic therefore says the standing area has to be at the back of a stand. Yeah I get that, but that’s why I suggested a few blocks front to back. It doesn’t have to be exclusively front or back. No it still blocks the view as you don't just view the game straight ahead
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Post by cheadlepotter on Nov 8, 2023 23:09:38 GMT
Yeah I get that, but that’s why I suggested a few blocks front to back. It doesn’t have to be exclusively front or back. No it still blocks the view as you don't just view the game straight ahead Ah, you’re correct sorry.
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Post by nott1 on Nov 9, 2023 6:46:04 GMT
I think it’s ridiculous that the act of standing up has been so vilified that people now hail the introduction of heavily restricted “licensed” standing as some sort of huge victory for the fans. Poor stadium design and stewarding/policing caused past tragedies, not fans standing up. Poor policing hasn't disappeared!
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Post by soulsurvivor on Nov 9, 2023 7:32:02 GMT
I ďo not go to a match expecting the police or stewards to control my behaviour. I love standing up, love being in a crowd full of like minded people and getting lost in the moment and take full responsibility for my actions and behaviour and dont blame anyone else, I would suggest some people on here should consider how hard it is to control a mob of fans determined to cause mither.
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 9, 2023 8:16:34 GMT
I ďo not go to a match expecting the police or stewards to control my behaviour. I love standing up, love being in a crowd full of like minded people and getting lost in the moment and take full responsibility for my actions and behaviour and dont blame anyone else, I would suggest some people on here should consider how hard it is to control a mob of fans determined to cause mither. This is why in my response to the survey I have gone for an average 5. I would never now (having spent my teenage years on the old Stoke End) want to stand but I respect the wish of fans who do. However I felt I could not fully endorse safe standing as I feel at the moment the Bet 365 is a safe stadium but it would only take a group of trouble makers choosing not to stand in their allocated position but to group themselves where anti social behaviour is most possible to change that and make the steward's job difficult.
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Post by walrus on Nov 9, 2023 8:25:20 GMT
I ďo not go to a match expecting the police or stewards to control my behaviour. I love standing up, love being in a crowd full of like minded people and getting lost in the moment and take full responsibility for my actions and behaviour and dont blame anyone else, I would suggest some people on here should consider how hard it is to control a mob of fans determined to cause mither. This is why in my response to the survey I have gone for an average 5. I would never now (having spent my teenage years on the old Stoke End) want to stand but I respect the wish of fans who do. However I felt I could not fully endorse safe standing as I feel at the moment the Bet 365 is a safe stadium but it would only take a group of trouble makers choosing not to stand in their allocated position but to group themselves where anti social behaviour is most possible to change that and make the steward's job difficult. I think you have to give your fellow fans a bit more credit than that. Standing is already very common in the area you’re referring to (the South stand closest to the away end) and essentially self-polices currently. Legitimising what’s being going on tacitly for years won’t change anything.
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Post by lordb on Nov 9, 2023 8:26:42 GMT
I think it’s ridiculous that the act of standing up has been so vilified that people now hail the introduction of heavily restricted “licensed” standing as some sort of huge victory for the fans. Poor stadium design and stewarding/policing caused past tragedies, not fans standing up. Poor policing hasn't disappeared! It's massively better
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Post by baconburger on Nov 9, 2023 9:16:30 GMT
Reasonably in favour but doubt very much I would move myself. An area of unallocated (don’t know whether that’s legal) or allocate on arrival standing would be an improved offering. That would allow groups of like minded individuals to gravitate toward each other to as near as possible recreate what terracing provided. It’s better for everyone, I’m a spectator I like a position high above the halfway line for the best view of the game. Someone jumping about chanting and singing with their arms outstretched fingers spread (does it help them sing better or are they just puffer fish?) isn’t really conducive to what I’m trying to do likewise waving flags etc. Very happy for them to have somewhere to congregate.
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Post by baconburger on Nov 9, 2023 9:23:16 GMT
Poor policing hasn't disappeared! It's massively better Never been affected by policing at a home game and haven’t been to an away game for years (bar Wembley & Cardiff, Christ just realised how long ago they were) but I did hate the way away fans were treated when I did (probably what stopped me going to any more than anything else). Has the way away fans are treated improved?
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Post by Scouse on Nov 9, 2023 9:47:29 GMT
‘Licensed standing’ - a far better term than ‘safe standing’ which was flawed from the start and could open up a can of worms legally in the event of an incident going to court , and by default potentially called into question the safety or otherwise of standing on traditional terracing further down the pyramid
Both clubs and Licensing authorities have long sought solutions to unlicensed persistent standing ..not least because if god forbid another disaster or major incident occurred historic breaches and previous action taken would be part of the investigation .. in short people are looking after but also ensuring they look after their own back
Previous attempts to reduce persistent standing at other clubs ..be it notices , increased stewarding , threats of and or section closures , capacity reductions , reductions in away allocations and ST suspensions have all had mixed / poor success
Licensing authorities and indeed Club safety and compliance officers would now appear to see licensed standing areas as the ‘preferred’ solution to their headache .. the wording ‘Productive conversations with relevant safety authorities’ and ‘indication of their ‘preference’ for us, as a Club, to implement some areas of licensed standing’ is significant
This suggests persistent standing by some IS seen as an issue at our club ( quite possibly by both the club and the licensing authority ) .. recent statements from the club regards some fans behaviour at home whilst not mentioning standing specifically would seem to support this ..licensed standing is now seen as the preferred solution.
Some issues relating to installing Licensed standing , namely, where you put it , impact if any to sight lines of non standing or disabled areas and the impact on those fans who don’t wish to stand or those supporters displaced to allow its installation are easier to mitigate in home sections ..particularly at Stoke at present , where a degree of spare capacity and choice currently exists for any displaced fans .. spare capacity would likely be reduced if we gained promotion ..it’s therefore prudent if we’re to act that we act at the earliest opportunity ie work taking place next summer and work advised before STs go on sale for 24/25 to ensure all fans can make informed choices
The impact on away fans , both at the Bet365 and when we travel away , particularly those who wish to sit is less easy to solve .away fans are often already housed in the worst area of grounds view wise , by default at many grounds this will invariably mean those preferring to sit will likely have an enforced worse experience, view often very low down a ) a worse view of the play b) more open to the elements … people don’t sit in the first few rows at the bet365 for a reason … except when there’s nowhere else for the very same reasons
standing , particularly away from home is a problem for some , it’ll be interesting how clubs ( each with their own individual stadia issues ) provide high quality choice not only for their own supporters , but equally important and harder to accommodate.. their guests or visiting fans ..devil as always in the detail
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Post by Scouse on Nov 9, 2023 10:00:31 GMT
Never been affected by policing at a home game and haven’t been to an away game for years (bar Wembley & Cardiff, Christ just realised how long ago they were) but I did hate the way away fans were treated when I did (probably what stopped me going to any more than anything else). Has the way away fans are treated improved? Greatly .. some of that due to the police and some of it due to fans themselves .. ( away from obvious hotspots , many home supporters tend to be more welcoming and understand of each other and supporters tend to treat each other better ..it’s much less of a war than it ever was ) Does still depend on the game and local tensions , and indeed if it’s considered a ‘ lads day out ‘ type of game .. ie Leicester away compared to say a fixture at Swansea midweek .. and finally your mode of transport Some fans are their own worst enemies .. others arnt overly accommodating of their fellow supporters , never mind the opposition or the police / stewards ..some would still try to bring back the dark days ..but in truth just as happened in the 80s many would shit themselves and stop going if that happened
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Post by leicspotter on Nov 9, 2023 10:16:54 GMT
It quite clearly isn't safe to stand in a crowd at an all seater stadium, so this measure is very welcome for those who do want to stand, and, if implemented carefully, with sensitivity for all, would make a massive difference. I'm sure (hope) that those charged with making it work will take note of all the concerns and come up with a workable solution that has the least negative impact on current fans. N.B. I also believe that SCFC will one day win the PL ...only kidding
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Post by owdestokie2 on Nov 9, 2023 10:36:56 GMT
We should tear up that crappy looking big screen and build a safe standing area in the NW corner in between the Boothen and Main Stand. I take it you’ve never experienced sitting in the Franklyn Stand…………it’s freezing. Apart from the inclement conditions that area of the ground is the main access point for emergency vehicles etc. The cost to build in that corner I expect would rule out your idea. I imagine to provide a standing area it would be to located where there’s minimal cost.
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Post by BristolMick on Nov 9, 2023 10:53:57 GMT
We should tear up that crappy looking big screen and build a safe standing area in the NW corner in between the Boothen and Main Stand. I take it you’ve never experienced sitting in the Franklyn Stand…………it’s freezing. Apart from the inclement conditions that area of the ground is the main access point for emergency vehicles etc. The cost to build in that corner I expect would rule out your idea. I imagine to provide a standing area it would be to located where there’s minimal cost. Yes, what would make sense is the whole of the top part of the South Stand, that would then provide standing for both home and away fans. The Stoke fans that go in that part of the ground act like more of an away crowd anyway with most people already standing. BM
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Post by thornestein on Nov 9, 2023 11:47:45 GMT
We should tear up that crappy looking big screen and build a safe standing area in the NW corner in between the Boothen and Main Stand. its got to be this as noone should have to move seats to accommodate a minority who want to stand
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 9, 2023 12:19:09 GMT
We should tear up that crappy looking big screen and build a safe standing area in the NW corner in between the Boothen and Main Stand. I take it you’ve never experienced sitting in the Franklyn Stand…………it’s freezing. Apart from the inclement conditions that area of the ground is the main access point for emergency vehicles etc. The cost to build in that corner I expect would rule out your idea. I imagine to provide a standing area it would be to located where there’s minimal cost. I’ve sat in block 17 of the Franklyn Stand for the last 22 years. You’re right, it’s freezing, so surely building terracing in one of the open corners must improve that surely? In terms of emergency vehicles, how do all the other fully enclosed stadiums cope with that?
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Post by suck_the_mop. on Nov 9, 2023 12:27:22 GMT
We should tear up that crappy looking big screen and build a safe standing area in the NW corner in between the Boothen and Main Stand. its got to be this as noone should have to move seats to accommodate a minority who want to stand I could be wrong but i think it will be more than a minority given the choice.
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Post by toppercorner on Nov 9, 2023 12:47:07 GMT
Get it done Stoke.
And as others have suggested, the corner between the boothen and the main one would be perfect. Get rid of that screen, put it above the corner where the other bits of ugly building and away fan are.
With regards to to emergency vehicles, do we really need two exits? Do other clubs have 2 exits? How many times since we moved there have we needed to use both of them?
If we absolutely had to have 2, then couldn't we build around the one between the boothen and main, so it's more of a tunnel?
Happy to be corrected on the emergency vehicle thing if i've got that wrong.
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Post by suck_the_mop. on Nov 9, 2023 12:50:07 GMT
Get it done Stoke. And as others have suggested, the corner between the boothen and the main one would be perfect. Get rid of that screen, put it above the corner where the other bits of ugly building and away fan are. With regards to to emergency vehicles, do we really need two exits? Do other clubs have 2 exits? How many times since we moved there have we needed to use both of them? If we absolutely had to have 2, then couldn't we build around the one between the boothen and main, so it's more of a tunnel? Happy to be corrected on the emergency vehicle thing if i've got that wrong. It will be the south stand because of the away fans.. unless you want them sitting next door to boothen police not going to allow that.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 9, 2023 12:50:51 GMT
Yeah I get that, but that’s why I suggested a few blocks front to back. It doesn’t have to be exclusively front or back. That sounds like a 'wall' of bodies down the stand. That would obstruct views from the side. Agreed. The only areas where certain parts of a stand could be standing front to back are the corners of the ground. You can have all of a corner designated as standing without blocking the view of the pitch of those sitting at either side of the corner. In the other stands, at the sides or the ends of the stadium standing would need to be on the back rows unless the whole stand was designated as standing. In the main stand, I assume that, because of the seated areas in front of the private boxes, the whole stand would be designated as seated.
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Post by femark on Nov 9, 2023 12:54:41 GMT
I take it you’ve never experienced sitting in the Franklyn Stand…………it’s freezing. Apart from the inclement conditions that area of the ground is the main access point for emergency vehicles etc. The cost to build in that corner I expect would rule out your idea. I imagine to provide a standing area it would be to located where there’s minimal cost. I’ve sat in block 17 of the Franklyn Stand for the last 22 years. You’re right, it’s freezing, so surely building terracing in one of the open corners must improve that surely? In terms of emergency vehicles, how do all the other fully enclosed stadiums cope with that? Some form of tunnel I imagine
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 9, 2023 13:11:10 GMT
I ďo not go to a match expecting the police or stewards to control my behaviour. I love standing up, love being in a crowd full of like minded people and getting lost in the moment and take full responsibility for my actions and behaviour and dont blame anyone else, I would suggest some people on here should consider how hard it is to control a mob of fans determined to cause mither. Are you saying you don't want standing because you and others might kick off? If your behaviour tips over into a public order offence then the police and stewards have every right to control your behaviour and they will. And the majority of supporters want them to. It really doesn't matter what you want - you are not above the law. It's hard to stop a mob kicking off in the first place but the police have pretty effective ways of dealing with it once it's started. You don't see it these days but it was common in the 70s and 80s and it was brutal and effective and if it kicks off again they will just dig up their procedures. I don't think standing has to be associated with anti social behaviour. It might get more boisterous (which is fine) but it doesn't have to tip over into a public order offence. I'm pro standing and pro taking action against dickheads who indulge in anti social behaviour and I don't think that's a contradiction. If you think your behaviour might tip over into something dodgy then don't stand and spoil it for everyone else. That way when you've learned to control yourself you will have the option.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 9, 2023 15:35:20 GMT
If there is a designated standing area does that mean the club will enforce sitting down in the seated areas? Or will they just continue to turn a blind eye?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 9, 2023 16:41:30 GMT
If there is a designated standing area does that mean the club will enforce sitting down in the seated areas? Or will they just continue to turn a blind eye? I would imagine the club will be fairly laid back about seated spectators standing to celebrate a goal. But at other times when the match is in progress they will enforce sitting down. Any fan who can't manage to sit down during play will be politely asked to move to a standing area - which seems perfectly reasonable to me.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Nov 9, 2023 17:07:14 GMT
I take it you’ve never experienced sitting in the Franklyn Stand…………it’s freezing. Apart from the inclement conditions that area of the ground is the main access point for emergency vehicles etc. The cost to build in that corner I expect would rule out your idea. I imagine to provide a standing area it would be to located where there’s minimal cost. I’ve sat in block 17 of the Franklyn Stand for the last 22 years. You’re right, it’s freezing, so surely building terracing in one of the open corners must improve that surely? In terms of emergency vehicles, how do all the other fully enclosed stadiums cope with that? I simply think it would be cost prohibitive v other options. I wouldn’t be surprised if significant foundations would be required to build anything in that area.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 9, 2023 17:19:59 GMT
If there is a designated standing area does that mean the club will enforce sitting down in the seated areas? Or will they just continue to turn a blind eye? I would imagine the club will be fairly laid back about seated spectators standing to celebrate a goal. But at other times when the match is in progress they will enforce sitting down. Any fan who can't manage to sit down during play will be politely asked to move to a standing area - which seems perfectly reasonable to me. If it’s a health and safety issue why isn’t it enforced now? Also the people in the designated standing areas will still be allocated a standing area/ticket. You can’t just herd fans in there because they are standing in other areas or the standing area becomes unsafe and defeats the object.
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Post by thornestein on Nov 9, 2023 17:36:20 GMT
its got to be this as noone should have to move seats to accommodate a minority who want to stand I could be wrong but i think it will be more than a minority given the choice. well if thats the case they would have to do half the stadium to accommodate them , i doubt it is though
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Post by lordb on Nov 9, 2023 17:37:12 GMT
Never been affected by policing at a home game and haven’t been to an away game for years (bar Wembley & Cardiff, Christ just realised how long ago they were) but I did hate the way away fans were treated when I did (probably what stopped me going to any more than anything else). Has the way away fans are treated improved? generally yes, compared to the 80's where pretty much every force treated every football fan as scum here will still be bad policing of course & away fans still don't get treated fully correctly I'd say but much better overall than used to
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 9, 2023 18:10:44 GMT
I would imagine the club will be fairly laid back about seated spectators standing to celebrate a goal. But at other times when the match is in progress they will enforce sitting down. Any fan who can't manage to sit down during play will be politely asked to move to a standing area - which seems perfectly reasonable to me. If it’s a health and safety issue why isn’t it enforced now? Also the people in the designated standing areas will still be allocated a standing area/ticket. You can’t just herd fans in there because they are standing in other areas or the standing area becomes unsafe and defeats the object. I worded part of my post badly. I would imagine the club would ask the fans to stay seated for the rest of the match and IN FUTURE, if they wanted to stand, buy tickets for the standing area.
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Post by Somebody_Told_Me on Nov 9, 2023 18:48:33 GMT
I hopt they don't have to be columns, I think they'd look shite. Just need leave a small gap between standing and where seats start stands are faily steep so shouldn't to be big wouldn't look bad as standing people heads would still be up to sitters height but not obstucting.
I personally would do all lower half of Boothen and all lower half and around corner of the South stand. That sorts out away fans who stand anyway and give Stokies both ends to choose from, help with atomsphere, particularly between block 40 and away fans.
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