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Post by danceswithclams on Oct 8, 2023 11:54:49 GMT
Whilst not wishing to overtly offend, that's an absolutely pathetic attitude to have and one that is symptomatic of the 'know your place' outlook that holds this city and its inhabitants back. I don't know about you but I'm a great believer in of the adage "you only get what you'll settle for", and I'm certainly not going to settle for the utter shite the ownership have been spoonfeeding us for the past 6.5 years. In my opinion, they're lucky to have gotten away with what they have done for as long as they have. The emotive bit - this is utter toss. The sensible bit - summarily disregarding the £100’s of millions they have invested in the club, the ground, training facilities etc is disrespectful and offensive. Which alternative owner would do this? If you think the Coates don’t care for our club, what would a US or Far Eastern consortium be like? It’s not like they can spend loads more money due to FFP, and if it didn’t work out they would cut and run asap. I don’t like our trajectory, but to suggest the owners don’t care and haven’t been generous in the extreme is not true. Also, it’s their asset and have every right to deal with it as they see fit when they see fit. It’s only my opinion but I don’t see them as the issue ( they have tried various styles of manager and approaches - ok they haven’t worked so far (except during the entire Premiership decade when i suspect you weren’t posting rubbish like this because of their stewardship and generosity). so please enlighten us all, which owners would you like to see, where would they come from and what investment levels would you expect to see? Where did I say that they don't care? I'm absolutely certain that they do care. I'm also absolutely certain that they are not capable of running a football club in the modern era.
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Post by Glory Hunter on Oct 8, 2023 11:58:50 GMT
The emotive bit - this is utter toss. The sensible bit - summarily disregarding the £100’s of millions they have invested in the club, the ground, training facilities etc is disrespectful and offensive. Which alternative owner would do this? If you think the Coates don’t care for our club, what would a US or Far Eastern consortium be like? It’s not like they can spend loads more money due to FFP, and if it didn’t work out they would cut and run asap. I don’t like our trajectory, but to suggest the owners don’t care and haven’t been generous in the extreme is not true. Also, it’s their asset and have every right to deal with it as they see fit when they see fit. It’s only my opinion but I don’t see them as the issue ( they have tried various styles of manager and approaches - ok they haven’t worked so far (except during the entire Premiership decade when i suspect you weren’t posting rubbish like this because of their stewardship and generosity). so please enlighten us all, which owners would you like to see, where would they come from and what investment levels would you expect to see? Where did I say that they don't care? I'm absolutely certain that they do care. I'm also absolutely certain that they are not capable of running a football club in the modern era. Ok , accept we both agree they do care. Thing is, it’s their club and they can do what they want. If you don’t trust them, that’s a valid opinion, I accept that too. But any transfer of ownership wont be based on a few posters having a pop at them. And still no answer to the question - who next if they did? And how genuinely committed would they be?
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Post by bunnyscfc on Oct 8, 2023 12:10:02 GMT
The best owners in the world ever are taking us to the third tier. Again. The one constant in our seven year decline which shows zero sign of abating. When they needed to get outside investment in - and when it was far easier to do so - they didn't. We were a top 10 Premier League club able to attract Champions League winners - and they got firstly complacent, and then panicked and gave a fuckwit a £50m warchest. Companies would have been lining up to invest in us in 2016...... Why did one of the richest families in the world need outside investment? New ideas, new thinking, new structure, and a succession plan rather than just giving it to your kid. The last 7 years have shown that money alone isn't enough for SCFC
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Oct 8, 2023 12:14:42 GMT
Why did one of the richest families in the world need outside investment? New ideas, new thinking, new structure, and a succession plan rather than just giving it to your kid. The last 7 years have shown that money alone isn't enough for SCFC I think we tried that to an extent with Neil, Bunny but isn't working. The idea was right,the appointment hasn't worked but not not too late to kick on by taking Neil out of the equation.
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Post by bagnallboothen on Oct 8, 2023 12:17:00 GMT
Why did one of the richest families in the world need outside investment? New ideas, new thinking, new structure, and a succession plan rather than just giving it to your kid. The last 7 years have shown that money alone isn't enough for SCFC Equally there's enough horror stories of outside investment, particularly from equity companies from across the pond. They can't pick a football manager that's got any idea how to implement new ideas, thinking, structure or succession plan ... not sure I'd want them picking investors.
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Post by northernstokie on Oct 8, 2023 12:18:02 GMT
Please take over from your brother. We need new direction. Thanks I'm late to the party but this is one of the worst ideas going. For one. She is a business women who will not like losing money every year. 2, she does not care about the club or football so will not invest any time compared to what she does to bet 365.
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Post by wakeypotter on Oct 8, 2023 12:25:50 GMT
Peter seems to get off scott free in all of this Just as much to blame IMO Well yeah agree he passed it on to the incompetent fool and should have taken it back at least a year ago
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Post by silsdenstokie on Oct 8, 2023 14:10:52 GMT
Peter seems to get off scott free in all of this Just as much to blame IMO Well yeah agree he passed it on to the incompetent fool and should have taken it back at least a year ago I’d imagine he still has a major say in things Maybe its my long memory from his stewardship in the 80s/90s
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 8, 2023 14:18:03 GMT
Where did I say that they don't care? I'm absolutely certain that they do care. I'm also absolutely certain that they are not capable of running a football club in the modern era. Ok , accept we both agree they do care. Thing is, it’s their club and they can do what they want. If you don’t trust them, that’s a valid opinion, I accept that too. But any transfer of ownership wont be based on a few posters having a pop at them. And still no answer to the question - who next if they did? And how genuinely committed would they be? I think the general consensus is we have good solid owners. Most just wish they'd have the humility to get people in and around the club who could potentially put is on a Brighton or Brentford pathway to success. They could have been doing that for years but got arrogant with the 10 years in the Premier league. And also underestimated how crucial Pulis was to it all running pretty smoothly.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 8, 2023 23:00:13 GMT
So we’ve had 7 years of decline.
The one constant in that has been the ownership.
Yet a lot of people won’t have a bad word said about they run things.
Just what do you actually think has caused nearly a decade of decline?
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Post by independent on Oct 9, 2023 1:05:29 GMT
So we’ve had 7 years of decline. The one constant in that has been the ownership. Yet a lot of people won’t have a bad word said about they run things. Just what do you actually think has caused nearly a decade of decline? Some people blame the owners and say that they wouldn't have had to write off the £200m that they did, if they had of got things right in the first place.We should have become an established Premier club. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but since The Premier League began 51 clubs have played in it.Only 6 clubs of the original 22 have never been relegated.Brighton, Brentford and Luton, have not been relegated yet, but probably will be, sooner or later. 42 of the 51 have been relegated, some of them 5 and even 6 times. One has even dropped out of the EFL. So you see it is very likely that everyone (other than the wealthy) are going to be relegated at some time or another. The drop in income and the adjustment it entails is so great now that unless you are a very rich club or you get straight back up,you will probably be in the Championship for years or may even drop into League One. This has happened clubs like Ipswich,Sunderland, Leeds, Portsmouth and many more. How long did it take the clubs mentioned to get back up to the Championship? To stay in the Premier League now has become increasingly difficult. You probably have to gamble as Forest did. After a couple of years in the League, you will probably have an income of about £140m and a wage bill of about £90m. As a medium sized club, you will find it hard to sign the players who might keep you in the Premier League if you insist on wage reductions in the event of relegation. This is the reality of what we call the Promised Land. When you do get relegated and your income falls to £30m + Parachute payments, you have a big problem.You will lose increasing amounts of money each year in the Championship. Even with a rich owner you may suffer a points deduction for infringing FFP. In times past,when there was not such a gap between the Elite and the rest, it was possible for Ipswich or Forest to win the top division league after being promoted the year before. Such an event would be impossible today. It used to be possible to build a good side over a period of a few years. Not anymore.Your best players will be poached from you before you can complete the job. Celtic got a great manager, Postecoglou, but only for 2 years before Spurs pounced. The Premier League standard used to be fairly even,anyone could beat anyone. Then it split into 3 sections. 1. were chasing trophies. 2. were safe and 3. the clubs fighting relegation. Nowadays it consists of an elite at the top and 10 clubs below them who are all hoping that the 3 newly promoted teams will all be relegated again and they will remain in the league. Championship clubs have run up debts of over £1700 million chasing this dream/nightmare. Nowadays when you go up you have a simple choice to make between 2 options: 1. You sign a couple of non Premier League players and hope that with good organisation and a bit of luck you can survive. 2. You sign a large number of decent players like Forest did and gamble that spending more than your actual income will pay off for you.Even if it does, then like Forest you will have to buy some more players again the following year. It seems obvious that this will result in a disastrous financial day of reckoning eventually when you get relegated .
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Post by independent on Oct 9, 2023 1:39:16 GMT
What happened to us when we got relegated is neither unusual or unique. We are not a wealthy club. Our income is about £30m? But we do have rich owners. Maybe part of our problem is delusions of grandeur. We got relegated and our income collapsed.We were haemorrhaging money.We gambled big on getting back up quickly and it didn't work. We then had to cut our cost base as quickly as possible, to match our new lower income.It took 3 years to get all our high earners off our books & sort out our finances. This was done with the owner's help, who wrote off £200m of debt and MON managing to keep us within ffp while keeping us well away from any fear of relegation. That he managed to do this even with terrible luck with injuries,while he replaced expensive players with lower quality cheap ones and slashed the wage bill is a great credit to him.It might not have been pretty but it worked. in 2.5 years he sorted out the club and got us to a great position this June,from which we could at last move forward. Whether this opportunity has been squandered remains to be seen.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 9, 2023 6:00:07 GMT
We were an established PL club which is why I think it hurts a little bit more.
And then the owners made so many mistakes upon relegation.
It is hard but their decisions made it so much harder and made it so much messier.
They of course are the reason we had to write 200m off…..
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 9, 2023 6:23:41 GMT
Think she could get someone like she’s does at BET365 to do the donkey work and be in the background calling the shots. John obviously… is being blagged and mopping it up. There’s obviously a big problem.. AN, rowatt, MON are not bad managers, but all failed and failing. The problem is deeper Denise does a lot of the donkey work at Bet365. Don't let anyone tell you any different. True, I've heard the same from someone with close connections there.
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Post by independent on Oct 9, 2023 10:15:10 GMT
We were an established PL club which is why I think it hurts a little bit more. And then the owners made so many mistakes upon relegation. It is hard but their decisions made it so much harder and made it so much messier. They of course are the reason we had to write 200m off….. Blackburn,Bolton,Leeds,Middlesboro and Sunderland have all spent longer than us in the Premier League. Were they established Premier League clubs? You seem to be missing the point. The big clubs have rigged the game so that they will be the only ones winning things and they are almost immune from relegation. Leicester winning the League was an aberration that is highly unlikely to ever be repeated. Leicester are likely to go up this year. They are going to face the dilemma I described. Burnley's experience this year will probably be very influential in the decision they make. Burnley have a fighting chance of relegating Bournemouth and staying up.
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Post by callas12 on Mar 7, 2024 20:29:14 GMT
Don't have a Telegraph subscription to print the whole story but just seen the headlines of an article from earlier this afternoon concerning Denise and a legal matter. Havent seen any other links but headline reads: **Britain’s best-paid woman faces financial crime investigation into gambling empire Denise Coates’ Bet365 under scrutiny by Australian watchdog** May be absolutely nothing but without reading the rest of the article it's not known how serious the allegations are, or for that matter, who they are from and potential consequences. Sure Denise and the Bet365 legal team will be monitoring the situation! www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/03/07/britains-richest-woman-financial-crime-gambling/Edit.. just managed to read abit more of the article, basically says an Australian Transaction Reports & Analysis Centre a Financial Crime Watchdog over allegations Bet365 has broken the law. Certain doesn't accuse Denise directly of any wrong doing and basically says it could just result in a fine!
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 7, 2024 20:35:56 GMT
Doesn't seem to be behind a paywall anyway
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 7, 2024 20:39:57 GMT
Bet365 possibly violated financial compliance rules in Australia and might be fined. Not a huge story really
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Post by fca47 on Mar 7, 2024 23:31:11 GMT
Every betting firm in the industry has been fined for something or other, the most regulated industry in the world and the way of financing the regulators is through fines for silly things.
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Post by frasier37 on Mar 8, 2024 7:00:29 GMT
We all have to conform to regulations ....Nice that that includes the ridiculously wealthy businesses too Shame it doesn't affect them the way it does the average joe
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 8, 2024 10:01:02 GMT
So as is the norm the headlines in the online editions of our daily newspapers are complete and utter click bait bollocks and bear only a passing connection to the actual story.
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Post by knowingeye on Mar 9, 2024 7:40:48 GMT
Now I see what Peter Coates with Tony Scholes really achieved, on and off the pitch.
Sadly John Coates is not the future and surely the family know the truth.
Forget any pride or ego but proper change needed to prevent dropping to League One, then making decisions.
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Post by RF10 on Mar 9, 2024 8:08:43 GMT
The prosecution will flea for their life when they see her secret weaponry.
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Post by citynickscfc on Mar 9, 2024 8:50:17 GMT
Bet365 possibly violated financial compliance rules in Australia and might be fined. Not a huge story really Some strange vilification headline.
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Post by danceswithclams on Mar 9, 2024 10:21:06 GMT
Bet365 possibly violated financial compliance rules in Australia and might be fined. Not a huge story really Some strange vilification headline. Saw Some Strange Vilification Headline supporting World of Twist in the early 90s. Great band.
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 9, 2024 10:59:07 GMT
Some strange vilification headline. Saw Some Strange Vilification Headline supporting World of Twist in the early 90s. Great band. Shurely they were… headlining……
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 9, 2024 14:15:41 GMT
Denise is aa business women and I'm sure believes that Stoke City getting back to the Premier League would be in the best interests of bet365.
But she is also a family women and I expect will not interfere with what her father and brother have been doing, in the interests of family unity.
None of us can be happy with the way the club has been run since Hughes allowed the rot to set in, but it should be remembered that many former PL clubs have slid down the league further than Stoke.
The fortunes of Luton and others, tell us that it is perfectly possible to achieve success and rise up the table. So we should never give up hoping.
Success is not about money or size of support. Success of aĺl businesses depends on people. It's all a question of the right people at the right time throughout the organisation, but especially at the top.
The club is on the right track by keeping changing the manager and other key senior staff till they get the combination right. If there is a fault IMO, the owners have been too patient with each manager. I think Sunderland's recent decision to change manager is too hasty, but I don't know what is going on behind closed doors. In my experience in industry it was generally expected that a new manager will make a sustained improvement in business performance within 6 months otherwise he/she would be removed/replaced.
It has clearly been the case that each new manager we've had was not up to the job within 6 months, with the possible exception of MON who inherited a dire situation, had no money, and the pandemic and injury problems. It is usually quite apparent whether the right person is in charge within 6 months, but in MON's case there were exceptional circumstances.
The delay in removing the managers since Hughes time, with the exception of Lambert, displays a lack of decisiveness by the owners. Sitting with fingers crossed hoping for an upturn is no recipe for success in any business, and I'm sure Denise does not run bet365 like that. "He who hesitates is lost".
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Post by biddulphchav on Mar 9, 2024 16:05:51 GMT
Why did one of the richest families in the world need outside investment? New ideas, new thinking, new structure, and a succession plan rather than just giving it to your kid. The last 7 years have shown that money alone isn't enough for SCFC That’s not really a plan though is it? Just a brief list of high level ‘management topics’ you could knock into a slide pack really. Change for the sake of change it sounds like that’s what you want since you can’t even really describe in a meaningful way what the new owners would do differently and how that would change things.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Mar 9, 2024 16:10:59 GMT
New ideas, new thinking, new structure, and a succession plan rather than just giving it to your kid. The last 7 years have shown that money alone isn't enough for SCFC That’s not really a plan though is it? Just a brief list of high level ‘management topics’ you could knock into a slide pack really. Change for the sake of change it sounds like that’s what you want since you can’t even really describe in a meaningful way what the new owners would do differently and how that would change things. I'm surprised they don't get an expert off here to run it for them. There's plenty to pick from.
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