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Post by somersetstokie on Oct 5, 2023 12:12:00 GMT
The procession of League Managers losing their jobs continues at a rapid pace, and several more may well follow in the next International break.
Mark Hughes has gone from Bradford this week and a flasback to the past is prompted here. Do Managers still get the backing of their Chairman during difficult times, and do they still get the fabled "Vote of Confidence" shortly before their dismissal. And do Chairmen still "sharpen their Axe" prior to taking action? Where do they obtain these axes and do they keep them to hand in readiness?
Being a football Manager is clearly one of the most precarious and unpredictable of professions, with a very large percentage figure of League clubs changing their Managers over the course of a season. But I would refuse to feel sorry for them as they are generally highly paid for what they do. And I find it staggering that the same small pool of Managers are amongst those that get dismissed for failure, only to walk into another similar highly paid position elsewhere within a very short space of time. This cycle of losing your job abruptly at one club, whilst knowing that there is probably going to be another one just around the corner surely doesn't happen in any other profession.
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Post by stokeson on Oct 5, 2023 13:29:46 GMT
The procession of League Managers losing their jobs continues at a rapid pace, and several more may well follow in the next International break. Mark Hughes has gone from Bradford this week and a flasback to the past is prompted here. Do Managers still get the backing of their Chairman during difficult times, and do they still get the fabled "Vote of Confidence" shortly before their dismissal. And do Chairmen still "sharpen their Axe" prior to taking action? Where do they obtain these axes and do they keep them to hand in readiness? Being a football Manager is clearly one of the most precarious and unpredictable of professions, with a very large percentage figure of League clubs changing their Managers over the course of a season. But I would refuse to feel sorry for them as they are generally highly paid for what they do. And I find it staggering that the same small pool of Managers are amongst those that get dismissed for failure, only to walk into another similar highly paid position elsewhere within a very short space of time. This cycle of losing your job abruptly at one club, whilst knowing that there is probably going to be another one just around the corner surely doesn't happen in any other profession. Only Politics where failure results in promotion... |
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Post by somersetstokie on Oct 5, 2023 13:36:05 GMT
So Gavin Williamson is the Mark Hughes of Politics!
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Post by pulismaskreplica on Oct 5, 2023 15:04:23 GMT
I think there should be a rule where you have to stick with your manager that you appoint for the season. If he’s shit and relegates you by Xmas then that’s your own fault as a board for not doing your homework. Every manager gets a full season minimum before the club can change
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Oct 5, 2023 15:39:03 GMT
I think it's expected now and would imagine/hope most managers at the higher levels are comfortable enough financially to get over it quickly. At the lower levels and especially for those with families, it must be much more difficult from a financial perspective.
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Post by hoppo96 on Oct 5, 2023 16:26:37 GMT
They only last about 18 months now, it's quite rare for the likes of Pulis to be here for seven years. I mean we've had Alex Neil for less than 14 months and he's already in the top half of current managers going by length of tenure at current club (43 out of 92, or something).
The consequences for failure in football are huge. Whether it's relegation or promotion to the Premier League, the top of that league or being relegated out of the Football League.
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Post by somersetstokie on Oct 5, 2023 18:03:56 GMT
I think it's expected now and would imagine/hope most managers at the higher levels are comfortable enough financially to get over it quickly. At the lower levels and especially for those with families, it must be much more difficult from a financial perspective. As I understand it, or at least in the top divisions, if a club sacks the Manager then they are obliged to keep paying him, until he finds another paid job elsewhere? For example, when Mark Hughes left Stoke in 2018, we would have continued to pay him until he took over at Southampton. So there is an added element of financial security. |
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Post by peterthornesboots on Oct 5, 2023 18:14:52 GMT
I think it's expected now and would imagine/hope most managers at the higher levels are comfortable enough financially to get over it quickly. At the lower levels and especially for those with families, it must be much more difficult from a financial perspective. As I understand it, or at least in the top divisions, if a club sacks the Manager then they are obliged to keep paying him, until he finds another paid job elsewhere? For example, when Mark Hughes left Stoke in 2018, we would have continued to pay him until he took over at Southampton. So there is an added element of financial security. Yes, it depends on the agreement between the manager and the club. I imagine that is why Nathan Jones and Graham Potter (for example) are content not to rush straight back into the managerial fray. They can sit back, enjoy the money, and wait for the right opportunity. It is a pretty wild industry though. I think that average tenure of an EFL manager is less than a hear and a half now! It is a shame that managers do no get as much time anymore, but the stakes are so high (for failure and success) that short term results tend to take priority over long term visions. |
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Post by somersetstokie on Oct 5, 2023 18:28:10 GMT
I think the attitudes and culture of various clubs differ greatly. Bournmouth stuck with Eddie Howe for several seasons as he took the club up the divisions, whereas Watford, as we know, are happy to have a managerial change every few months.
Stoke traditionally tend to be fairly patient with their Managers, and I remember one season at the end of the Sixties, when there was a dramatic spate of managerial sackings, and Stoke actually came out with a Public statement saying they would NOT be sacking then Manager, Tony Waddington.
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Post by rowbeartoe on Oct 6, 2023 2:24:05 GMT
Fucking right on I would be a manager, when I'm shit at my job I still get paid and in a lump sum as well. Get me on a 3 year deal and sack me after a month. Come on Coates do the right thing.
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Post by kemilss on Oct 6, 2023 4:18:21 GMT
I think it's expected now and would imagine/hope most managers at the higher levels are comfortable enough financially to get over it quickly. At the lower levels and especially for those with families, it must be much more difficult from a financial perspective. As I understand it, or at least in the top divisions, if a club sacks the Manager then they are obliged to keep paying him, until he finds another paid job elsewhere? For example, when Mark Hughes left Stoke in 2018, we would have continued to pay him until he took over at Southampton. So there is an added element of financial security. In N.A. sports, the team would still own the managers rights for the duration of the contract, but would have to pay them. Another team could hire him but they'd have to come up with an agreement between the 3 parties re: wage contribution from the team that fired him. Maybe that's why Potter isn't working? He's happy to collect shit tones of $$, travel Europe and scout football games? |
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Post by ursemboys on Oct 6, 2023 5:36:19 GMT
As I understand it, or at least in the top divisions, if a club sacks the Manager then they are obliged to keep paying him, until he finds another paid job elsewhere? For example, when Mark Hughes left Stoke in 2018, we would have continued to pay him until he took over at Southampton. So there is an added element of financial security. In N.A. sports, the team would still own the managers rights for the duration of the contract, but would have to pay them. Another team could hire him but they'd have to come up with an agreement between the 3 parties re: wage contribution from the team that fired him. Maybe that's why Potter isn't working? He's happy to collect shit tones of $$, travel Europe and scout football games? Potter is waiting for the Stoke Job to become vacant  |
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Post by Gods on Oct 6, 2023 7:05:02 GMT
I think it's expected now and would imagine/hope most managers at the higher levels are comfortable enough financially to get over it quickly. At the lower levels and especially for those with families, it must be much more difficult from a financial perspective. As I understand it, or at least in the top divisions, if a club sacks the Manager then they are obliged to keep paying him, until he finds another paid job elsewhere? For example, when Mark Hughes left Stoke in 2018, we would have continued to pay him until he took over at Southampton. So there is an added element of financial security. I have offered wondered this. I don't think it can be as simple as if AN is sacked this morning we continue to pay him £400,000 for ever or until he finds another job whichever comes first. I think football contract law must be the same as any other. So say we sack AN with 20 months left on his contract, because he has done nothing to break his contract then we must pay him for his remaining 20 months. Something like that anyway. Not sure what happens if you are on a rolling contract though, I would imagine there is very little security for the manager in this circumstance. |
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Post by theonlooker on Oct 6, 2023 7:08:31 GMT
As I understand it, or at least in the top divisions, if a club sacks the Manager then they are obliged to keep paying him, until he finds another paid job elsewhere? For example, when Mark Hughes left Stoke in 2018, we would have continued to pay him until he took over at Southampton. So there is an added element of financial security. I have offered wondered this. I don't think it can be as simple as if AN is sacked this morning we continue to pay him £400,000 for ever or until he finds another job whichever comes first. I think football contract law must be the same as any other. So say we sack AN with 20 months left on his contract, because he has done nothing to break his contract then we must pay him for his remaining 20 months. Something like that anyway. Not sure what happens if you are on a rolling contract though, I would imagine there is very little security for the manager in this circumstance. I watched a podcast recently, I think it was Steve Bruce (might be wrong), where he basically said most if not all managers have it in their contracts that when sacked they get 12 months money and nothing more regardless of how long is left. Alan Pardew's 8 year deal was mentioned at Newcastle in a joking sense. Not sure how true that is as I have no more insight than that sadly. |
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Post by drfishy on Oct 6, 2023 7:09:43 GMT
Isn't a rolling contract where you are constantly on a fixed notice term (usually 1 year?), so if the board decides it's not working and fire you you get 1 years pay. So liitle or loads of security; depends on how you view it.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Oct 6, 2023 8:01:52 GMT
It’s akin to a board position at a company.
CEO, CFO, COO and the like.
Do whatever job you want and you have a security net that they have to pay you off 6 months notice at an exorbitant amount.
You can then slide into your next job easy peasy.
Money for old rope.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Oct 6, 2023 10:24:01 GMT
I think it's expected now and would imagine/hope most managers at the higher levels are comfortable enough financially to get over it quickly. At the lower levels and especially for those with families, it must be much more difficult from a financial perspective. As I understand it, or at least in the top divisions, if a club sacks the Manager then they are obliged to keep paying him, until he finds another paid job elsewhere? For example, when Mark Hughes left Stoke in 2018, we would have continued to pay him until he took over at Southampton. So there is an added element of financial security. As far as I'm aware, it has changed slightly in recent years in that it's in most contracts that managers will get paid less than their employed salary if they're sacked, but they generally still get something over the remainder of their contract or another agreed amount of time, stopping completely if they start another job. I also wonder if the "mutual consent" kind of thing is to do with pay agreements e.g. rather than being paid a full salary for a year, they're paid for 6 months in 3 months or something like that. |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Oct 6, 2023 10:28:50 GMT
We should pay Neil £1 for every game he's won. He could half fill one of those kiddie trollies at Poundland then
£1 for every excuse he's made, he'd never need to work again
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Post by alsagerstoke on Oct 6, 2023 10:30:04 GMT
Happened at rangers last couple of weeks…Beale had a vote of confidence from the board…sacked a week later after losing against Aberdeen…still happens
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2023 17:53:06 GMT
Me. I'd be a manager.
They get fuck tons of money whether they're good or shit, and even if they're shit they keep getting jobs offered to them.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 6, 2023 17:54:32 GMT
Nathan Jones would.
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Post by logdog on Oct 6, 2023 19:22:34 GMT
I see Lee Bell regularly on the school run & he was saying how much he loves the football side - coaching the players, picking the team, match days etc. However, it’s the politics that are the problem. Chairman & directors ringing and texting suggesting cost cutting measures & money saving initiatives. Sounds like just generally poking their noses in. I suppose most jobs are the same. However, these fellas have thousands of eyes scrutinising them & massive pressure on them. They aren’t on big money at that level either.
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Post by AlliG on Oct 7, 2023 11:45:27 GMT
I see Lee Bell regularly on the school run & he was saying how much he loves the football side - coaching the players, picking the team, match days etc. However, it’s the politics that are the problem. Chairman & directors ringing and texting suggesting cost cutting measures & money saving initiatives. Sounds like just generally poking their noses in. I suppose most jobs are the same. However, these fellas have thousands of eyes scrutinising them & massive pressure on them. They aren’t on big money at that level either. I suspect most of us tend to just notice the usual suspects who keep getting job after job and forget about all the others. The LMA put out a report a few years ago to the effect that about 50% of managers were "one and done". With the reduction in the average amount of time managers stay in the job and the increase in the size of coaching staffs over the last decade or so, more of those "failed managers" presumably now get a second chance or are able to get a coaching job somewhere but I still don't see it as a cushy number for the majority of managers. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 7, 2023 11:54:13 GMT
Not me 😆
Dogs abuse can't be worth it. But I suppose if its a top end job and you're pulling millions I reckon I could handle a few choruses of....you don't know what you're doing or....you're getting sacked in the morning 😆
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