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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 29, 2023 13:09:55 GMT
Clubs with far less money & resources have reached what we were expecting since relegation.
So why with the money & resources we have,shouldn't Stoke supporters have high expectations?
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Post by wuzza on Sept 29, 2023 13:17:37 GMT
I expect the club not to be consistently losing to other teams that have significantly less in the way of resources / facilities etc etc. The bar hasn’t lowered one iota just because we’ve been rubbish for the last 5 or 6 years.
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Post by hoppo96 on Sept 29, 2023 13:26:45 GMT
Given the money we've spent in this division, the fact we can seemingly compete with the richest of the non-parachute payment teams, people have a right to expect. We're not little old Stoke, merely grateful to be in the division with clubs like Leeds United and Blackburn.
I hope we're not paying Alex Neil a decent salary just for 15th again...
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Post by jokker on Sept 29, 2023 14:05:24 GMT
Yes, but do we have any "high level" pros? I'd say we have medium level, veering towards lower level, i.e. League 1 football next season. So if you expect them to be high level, and they're lower level, it could be said that Stoke fans, with you as one of many examples, have unrealistic expectations. I'd say Championship football is a high level overall. If you're competent at your job no expectations are going to trouble you, quality & experience takes over. These are Championship players, we don't expect them to win the Premier league, we expect them to do well in the championship There's two threads within this thread, within our replies. I don't question that if you get paid well you must be able to live with expectations at a reaasonable level. But you cannot be expected to perform at above your own personal level. Some of our recent boys coming in are not - yet - at Championship level. The team as a whole is not at a high level, or they wouldn't be sitting 20th in the table. You would hope that given time to develop and support when they falter, the situation would change. The first part is up to the manager and themselves. The second part is up to you and the 19999 other regular fans and the 50 experts on the oatcake mb.
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Post by jokker on Sept 29, 2023 14:08:04 GMT
Clubs with far less money & resources have reached what we were expecting since relegation. So why with the money & resources we have,shouldn't Stoke supporters have high expectations? Because with the money and resources scfc have so far failed to live up any such expectations. You can't raise them every year. At some point you're going to have to be realistic, and build from the very near bottom upwards.
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Sept 29, 2023 14:36:40 GMT
I think think the majority of fans expect a manager to deliver us promotion back to the Premier League, after all we have wealthy owners and were in the top league just a few years ago. As well we now see Notts Forest, Luton, Wolves, Burnley, Sheffield United etc all currently in the PL, clubs in the main smaller than us. So if a manager appears not to have the ability to deliver us promotion fans turn on him, if mid table was acceptable to the majority then why call for the manager's head after just 8 games? It's not that much really. I can almost guarantee that if we'd won against preston, drawn against Hull and drawn against either Millwall or Ipswich away, which is only 5 more points (which would put us 11th on 12 points), then the fans would be reasonably happy with that return for the start of the season, would be optimistic and there would be no real anger. Fans would see some level of progress even if the football wasn't great. The fans are calling for the manager's head because he is showing no signs of improvement, he's had free reign at an entire squad and we're close to the bottom. THe football was this poor and results were this poor last season and he had the excuse that it was a poor squad he couldn't do much with. We as a fan base just want a bit of progress, a bit of effort. I won't be happy with anything lower than top half and its a wasted opportunity of the play offs if we don't push for that. That isn't expectation.
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Post by vidigal7 on Sept 29, 2023 14:37:16 GMT
I'd say Championship football is a high level overall. If you're competent at your job no expectations are going to trouble you, quality & experience takes over. These are Championship players, we don't expect them to win the Premier league, we expect them to do well in the championship There's two threads within this thread, within our replies. I don't question that if you get paid well you must be able to live with expectations at a reaasonable level. But you cannot be expected to perform at above your own personal level. Some of our recent boys coming in are not - yet - at Championship level. The team as a whole is not at a high level, or they wouldn't be sitting 20th in the table. You would hope that given time to develop and support when they falter, the situation would change. The first part is up to the manager and themselves. The second part is up to you and the 19999 other regular fans and the 50 experts on the oatcake mb. I can't say I agree with the standard of players, there are a couple that are young but they have been brought in as future prospects/squad players. I don't thinknanybody expects miracles instantly out of them. The other s that come in are expected to make us a competitive team this season or we wouldn't have signed them. I'm all for letting players settle but I can't agree they're not supposed to be upto performing to a very good championship level when they have settled
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Post by jokker on Sept 29, 2023 14:58:08 GMT
There's two threads within this thread, within our replies. I don't question that if you get paid well you must be able to live with expectations at a reaasonable level. But you cannot be expected to perform at above your own personal level. Some of our recent boys coming in are not - yet - at Championship level. The team as a whole is not at a high level, or they wouldn't be sitting 20th in the table. You would hope that given time to develop and support when they falter, the situation would change. The first part is up to the manager and themselves. The second part is up to you and the 19999 other regular fans and the 50 experts on the oatcake mb. I can't say I agree with the standard of players, there are a couple that are young but they have been brought in as future prospects/squad players. I don't thinknanybody expects miracles instantly out of them. The other s that come in are expected to make us a competitive team this season or we wouldn't have signed them. I'm all for letting players settle but I can't agree they're not supposed to be upto performing to a very good championship level when they have settled I suppose we are saying the same thing. Give them time to find their collective feet, and then you can criticise them if as a team they don't perform.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Sept 29, 2023 15:32:37 GMT
Given the money we've spent in this division, the fact we can seemingly compete with the richest of the non-parachute payment teams, people have a right to expect. We're not little old Stoke, merely grateful to be in the division with clubs like Leeds United and Blackburn. I hope we're not paying Alex Neil a decent salary just for 15th again... Leeds, fair enough.... But Blackburn??? Surely you could have gone for Leicester or even Sunderland at a push.... But Blackburn??? 🤔
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Post by baconburger on Sept 29, 2023 17:21:37 GMT
There has been a negative net spend during AN’s tenure of between £7.5M and £10M depending on fees reported and structure of deals. I’m not a massive AN fan but please explain where these big expectations come from. I was excited and encouraged by our change of direction in recruitment but big expectations really? expections have come from Neil’s own words , he’s said more than once he was bought here for promotion, last season or this season WTF has what people say got to do with anything? Actions speak words deceive. Despite the bollox certain people keep spouting we haven’t spent a ton on money only people who very like to carefully choose at which date they draw a completely meaningless line can claim we have. The transfer policy has been explained time and time again players for the here and now players with an eye on the future. We won’t know whether the players with an eye on the future have been successful for a period of a couple of years. The players for the here and now obviously aren’t giving us what we need but I’d argue we’ve missed out on a major plank of that business that we expected to do ie a ready made front line striker who could have made an enormous difference to outcomes.
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Post by thornestein on Sept 29, 2023 17:23:35 GMT
expections have come from Neil’s own words , he’s said more than once he was bought here for promotion, last season or this season WTF has what people say got to do with anything? Actions speak words deceive. Despite the bollox certain people keep spouting we haven’t spent a ton on money only people who very like to carefully choose at which date they draw a completely meaningless line can claim we have. The transfer policy has been explained time and time again players for the here and now players with an eye on the future. We won’t know whether the players with an eye on the future have been successful for a period of a couple of years. The players for the here and now obviously aren’t giving us what we need but I’d argue we’ve missed out on a major plank of that business that we expected to do ie a ready made front line striker who could have made an enormous difference to outcomes. 🤦♂️ you can’t fix stupid
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Post by baconburger on Sept 29, 2023 17:24:25 GMT
What the majority of fans wanted to see was an improvement and some better football Geoff. Top half playing some good stuff would've done for the majority. Still would. But the reality is rob that any manager currently given the Stoke job will have to deliver promotion, the fans won't accept a 7th or 8th position in the Championship for long however good the football is. Utter crap they’d maybe learn to enjoy football instead of revelling in outcomes no matter how hard they were to watch.
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Post by peterthornesboots on Sept 29, 2023 18:01:57 GMT
I would not say that "finishing in the top half of second tier of English football" is massive expectations to be honest.
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Post by baconburger on Sept 29, 2023 18:07:49 GMT
I would not say that "finishing in the top half of second tier of English football" is massive expectations to be honest. It’s baselessly expecting significant improvement. Hoping for it and expecting it are two very different beasts. I think we all hoped for it.
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Post by dirtclod on Sept 29, 2023 19:01:03 GMT
This thread proves that we have a ton of levelheaded, but longsuffering fans, even here on the Oatcake. As baconburger pointed out, there's a difference between "hope' and "expectation." I had hoped for a top-half finish with a chance at the playoffs for this year. Given the past 4,5 seasons - I have NO IDEA what to expect because we've been very consistent in our inconsistency. If hope can be a killer, then expectations can be serial-killers. in the end, it's none of my business what anyone else expects, they have as much right to theirs as I do mine. But I agree that as SCFC fans, we all HOPED for better than where we are right now and certainly aren't living up to most expectations. I do expect improvement, some semblance of team play, a unified somewhat consistent approach to games, substitutions that make a difference, an actual defense and somebody that can score. I then hope that these will deliver better results. If we were playing well, but losing by a goal here or there, it's one thing. But showing up and only playing 1/2 a match and consistently doing stupid things that should be getting coached out of them - that gets frustrating. Sorry, just wanted to compliment you all on these posts. it's good dialogue. F*cking off up the Vale now...
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 29, 2023 19:07:10 GMT
My expectations are still high for these players this season. AN is the one fucking it up. A confused team WILL look all over the place.
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Post by stokerstayinup on Sept 29, 2023 19:34:12 GMT
I wanted Neil gone when we suspended football for the World Cup last winter.I was pleased with his appointment(I voted for him in the next manager poll on here) but completely confused at what he was trying to do on the pitch and nothing has changed.His record stood at PL 15 W5 D3 L7 PTS 18 at that point and unfortunately nothing has improved. I had low expectations for this season until we appointed Dublin and these unheard of and potentially exciting signings arrived, meaning that by the time the kick off of the new season arrived I was genuinely excited.The first few home games including the cup games did nothing to temper that,attractive and winning football. Then he shit himself,decided to play 3/5 at the back and he's been chasing his tail ever since. If you're that a good a tactitian and coach as you seem to think you are Mr Neil,then let the opposition worry about it rather than the other way round as has been happening.
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Post by lordb on Sept 29, 2023 20:27:45 GMT
I was expecting top half at worst Hoped for just outside the play offs
Now expecting a relegation fight as we look like conceding goals in every game
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Post by baconburger on Sept 29, 2023 20:55:06 GMT
I was expecting top half at worst Hoped for just outside the play offs Now expecting a relegation fight as we look like conceding goals in every game But was there any logic to your expectation. We’ve been a lower end championship team for a number of years and haven’t made any Marquee signings. Who were supposed to be the players who lead to this expected significant improvement?
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Post by peterthornesboots on Sept 29, 2023 22:09:59 GMT
I would not say that "finishing in the top half of second tier of English football" is massive expectations to be honest. It’s baselessly expecting significant improvement. Hoping for it and expecting it are two very different beasts. I think we all hoped for it. Why is it baseless? The whole point of the summer overhaul (both on and off the pitch) was that it would stimulate improvement. Surely? Being reasonably competitive in this league and finishing mid-table or above is not some sort of impossible pipe dream. It should be the minimum we expect. The fact that we have failed to achieve this since relegation is a catastrophic failure of the highest order. No one (reasonable) is suggesting that we should have walked this division or are demanding play offs. Most fans just want to be competitive with some (any) kind of sign that we are moving in a more positive direction.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 29, 2023 22:11:32 GMT
I was expecting top half at worst Hoped for just outside the play offs Now expecting a relegation fight as we look like conceding goals in every game But was there any logic to your expectation. We’ve been a lower end championship team for a number of years and haven’t made any Marquee signings. Who were supposed to be the players who lead to this expected significant improvement? A serious rhetorical question. What were/are your expectations of a club that has clearly underachieved in recent years. Our most recent managerial appointment has to-date been a failure in meeting both club (owners, surely) and supporters realistic “expectations/aspirations” albeit having the opportunity to implement significant change. Possibly the largest number of changes in my time of supporting SCFC of 60 years. Perhaps others can correct me How long should both the owners and supporters be “patient” for success (massive improvement) Instead of asking for a penny and accepting a farthing how about asking for half a dollar and accepting two bob?
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Post by baconburger on Sept 30, 2023 6:40:42 GMT
But was there any logic to your expectation. We’ve been a lower end championship team for a number of years and haven’t made any Marquee signings. Who were supposed to be the players who lead to this expected significant improvement? A serious rhetorical question. What were/are your expectations of a club that has clearly underachieved in recent years. Our most recent managerial appointment has to-date been a failure in meeting both club (owners, surely) and supporters realistic “expectations/aspirations” albeit having the opportunity to implement significant change. Possibly the largest number of changes in my time of supporting SCFC of 60 years. Perhaps others can correct me How long should both the owners and supporters be “patient” for success (massive improvement) Instead of asking for a penny and accepting a farthing how about asking for half a dollar and accepting two bob? The first point is that expectations and aspirations are completely different things. Whilst the changes have been significant they’ve not involved any marquee signings that should reasonably have lead to expectations. I’m no fan of this manager though believe it should be pointed out that he hasn’t been given some Rowett style war chest and has actually seen a hefty profit on player trading during his tenure. What has been spent a fair bit of it has gone on what he describes as one’s with an eye on the future. Who out of the ones for the here and now do you really expect to be significant difference makers. Our most costly purchase Burger is one we could arguably have managed without. Where are the goals, the only player scoring any Vidigal is massively exceeding my expectations and I can’t see where much more expectation comes from with any of the others. I won’t crucify anyone for that because I believe we fully intended to bring in a forward that might have reasonably lead to a bit more expectation but we’re caught out by the richness of the market and the money allocated for a frontline striker turned out to be insufficient, I’m not going to blame anyone for that because the prices our targets fetched took me by surprise too. Not exactly proven prolific strikers at this level going for £8/10M. I think in hindsight we might have had forgo at least one of the other fee costing players and hiked our kitty for a striker but that’s pure hindsight, the reported kitty of £5M seemed pretty decent to me. As it is I wouldn’t call any of our striker business as anything more than cheap punts and imo it’s hurting us badly.
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Post by hotterpotter on Sept 30, 2023 6:51:28 GMT
The way things are, if Stoke City was a sandwich I would consider it a result if it didn't give me food poisoning.
Massive expectations my arse.
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Post by fentonstokie1 on Sept 30, 2023 9:16:40 GMT
Massive expectations my arse, I'm not expecting us to run away with promotion or even a top six place, this rubbish we've watched since Hughes would try the patience of any fan from any club. I am a season ticket holder and to expect to attend home games with the anticipation of seeing my team at least compete for 90 minutes, score sufficient goals, show backbone and win a decent percentage of the games and not continually ruin my weekend with timid half arsed performances. Stoke City FC are in the entertainment business and the only punters they're entertaining are the opposition fans with there failure to do the job they're handsomely paid to do. I am sick of watching a bunch of limp wristed virtue signalling ponces just going through the motions and picking up there wages.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Sept 30, 2023 9:32:51 GMT
It's not unrealistic for us as fans of the club with the most money and some of the best facilities in the league to expect to push for the playoffs every season as a bare minimum. Fans of every club want their team to do well and to achieve the best they can, why should we be any different.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 30, 2023 10:55:13 GMT
I struggle with using the word "expectations" it implies some sort of right and entitlement to a good outcome. In a competitive sport no-one is entitled to anything - there maybe an imbalance in terms of support base, financial backing, historical achievements etc but if you are in the same league every team that takes the pitch has to be seen as an equal. The best teams win the league because they've earned it, not because they are entitled to it.
Clubs that taste success end up acquiring that arrogance. Some clubs seem to have had it forever (Arsenal, Man Utd and Newcastle) while others have acquired it more recently (us and Man City come to mind). We used to be like the Millwall's and Preston's - take the piss out of the "big boys" and take enormous pleasure out of taking them down a peg or two. Now we have "expectations" we've lost that.
I prefer to see it in terms of hopes (every season I hope we do well) and achieving what we can realistically achieve. Going into the first game after relegation I honestly thought we could achieve promotion but had changed my mind at half time and every season since and prior to this one I've not thought for one second that was on the cards. This season I think we can achieve a top half finish and maybe a playoff place if everything clicks and we have some luck. However I don't have "expectations" just hope and a (probably misguided) belief it's possible.
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