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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 21, 2023 15:53:35 GMT
Of course. Do you think the large hasidic jewish population of London or Muslim population of London have very liberal views? Are you saying white working class people are less liberal than other demographics? They may be compared with some, but not more so than the two communities I have identified above, surely? Depends what you mean by liberal. They won't be liberal when it comes to things like trans and gay issues and that's why a lot of right wing minded people that historically would of been at odds with them have actually allied themselves with muslims inparticular in recent years. It isn't just Muslims and Jews in London though, and capital cities always tend to be more liberal. Yes, I suspect it is the diversity in cities that makes people more accepting of people and cultures that are different to their own/themselves, and then makes them more liberal as a result. A lot of people are afraid of what they don’t know/understand. Gender issues is a brilliant example. Most of us don’t have a clue about it because we don’t experience it in our lives and so don’t understand it and then break it down into very simplistic terms which lack the understanding or nuances of someone who does not see themselves as the gender they were born with.
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Post by gawa on Sept 21, 2023 15:55:07 GMT
Maybe if you or someone else can explain how voting conservative was axtually for the best inerests of an old persons kids or grandkids id understand better. So please do. I can't help you I'm afraid mate as I didn't, never have nor ever would vote Tory, so I have no idea why some old people would do. What I can be pretty sure of though is that the old folk who did vote Tory, did so because in their minds they felt the Tories would be the best option at providing a decent future for their kids/grandkids. We can both disagree with their opinion but I can not bring myself to believe that they "Don't give a fuck" about their kids/grandkids futures. 100% mate it's the wrong language to use and me just speaking more through frustration than anything else. I expect much of the same under Starmer to be honest. All my grandparents died before I was 20 so it's probably easier for me to use such language, and my grandparents certainly cared alot for me. I think it's difficult for older people to relate to what we're going through because every generation before our own things got better for them. We're the first generation in recent history where things are worse. Fucks me personally off because I'm from a working class estate and felt I did everything we were told too. Do well at school, be the first in family to go to uni, get a degree. And with 2 parents who grew up working class and didn't have those chances, it was always made out or felt as though I should do better. But it's not made much difference at all. If I was born 30 years earlier and did any old minimum wage job I'd be further ahead in life than I am now. The whole system and country is broken and beyond repair. Luckily I'm not as negative in person as I come across on here. Just keep the head down and get on with it and appreciate the little things. But it's all fucked and I've no faith in things improving any time soon.
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Post by stiggerstackle on Sept 21, 2023 16:02:59 GMT
Do schoolkids still use "gay" to just mean bad or lame? Yes they do - it's going through my lads school at the mo - they are 8 & 9, so it's still a thing. I corrected them and haven't heard it since but def doing the rounds.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 21, 2023 16:03:15 GMT
Depends what you mean by liberal. They won't be liberal when it comes to things like trans and gay issues and that's why a lot of right wing minded people that historically would of been at odds with them have actually allied themselves with muslims inparticular in recent years. It isn't just Muslims and Jews in London though, and capital cities always tend to be more liberal. Yes, I suspect it is the diversity in cities that makes people more accepting of people and cultures that are different to their own/themselves, and then makes them more liberal as a result. A lot of people are afraid of what they don’t know/understand. Gender issues is a brilliant example. Most of us don’t have a clue about it because we don’t experience it in our lives and so don’t understand it and then break it down into very simplistic terms which lack the understanding or nuances of someone who does not see themselves as the gender they were born with. I think it's more a case of when you have a hundred different cultures living in one small area the sense of nation identity isn't the same as in an all white rural area for example. Wanting to value the tradition and heritage of the country isn't as important so when woke or 'liberal' ideas creep in they don't really care whereas someone who has an emotional attachment to England and it's history is more inclined to do so.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 21, 2023 16:06:26 GMT
Economic Left/Right: -6.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62 Where I thought I'd be. Economic Left/Right: -3.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by foster on Sept 21, 2023 16:09:31 GMT
Economic Left/Right: -6.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62 Where I thought I'd be. Economic Left/Right: -3.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95 🤷🏻♂️ So woke.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 21, 2023 16:12:13 GMT
Economic Left/Right: -3.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95 🤷🏻♂️ So woke. I feel sick
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 21, 2023 16:19:41 GMT
Yes, I suspect it is the diversity in cities that makes people more accepting of people and cultures that are different to their own/themselves, and then makes them more liberal as a result. A lot of people are afraid of what they don’t know/understand. Gender issues is a brilliant example. Most of us don’t have a clue about it because we don’t experience it in our lives and so don’t understand it and then break it down into very simplistic terms which lack the understanding or nuances of someone who does not see themselves as the gender they were born with. I think it's more a case of when you have a hundred different cultures living in one small area the sense of nation identity isn't the same as in an all white rural area for example. Wanting to value the tradition and heritage of the country isn't as important so when woke or 'liberal' ideas creep in they don't really care whereas someone who has an emotional attachment to England and it's history is more inclined to do so. Well that is complete nonsense for me. I live in London. I have a strong sense of national identity. I value tradition and heritage. One of the most positive things about the legacy of the British empire is the diversity it led to in this country and how it is generally more accepting of others than many of the rest of the world. Our diversity as a nation is a big part of our heritage and traditions. Being nationalistic doesn’t mean loving Farage. I would describe Farage as very anti-British in his politics as he is a bigot.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 21, 2023 16:20:43 GMT
Economic Left/Right: -6.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62 Where I thought I'd be. Economic Left/Right: -3.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95 🤷🏻♂️ I told you that you are woke!
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 21, 2023 16:24:34 GMT
I think it's more a case of when you have a hundred different cultures living in one small area the sense of nation identity isn't the same as in an all white rural area for example. Wanting to value the tradition and heritage of the country isn't as important so when woke or 'liberal' ideas creep in they don't really care whereas someone who has an emotional attachment to England and it's history is more inclined to do so. Well that is complete nonsense for me. I live in London. I have a strong sense of national identity. I value tradition and heritage. One of the most positive things about the legacy of the British empire is the diversity it led to in this country and how it is generally more accepting of others than many of the rest of the world. Our diversity as a nation is a big part of our heritage and traditions. I disagree mate but that's the beauty of living in a free country, we are allowed to have different opinions.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 21, 2023 16:27:23 GMT
Economic Left/Right: -3.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95 🤷🏻♂️ I told you that you are woke! I must have misread some questions, I’ll need to re take the test😉
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 21, 2023 16:35:12 GMT
Economic Left/Right: 1.0 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.31
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 21, 2023 16:36:44 GMT
Well that is complete nonsense for me. I live in London. I have a strong sense of national identity. I value tradition and heritage. One of the most positive things about the legacy of the British empire is the diversity it led to in this country and how it is generally more accepting of others than many of the rest of the world. Our diversity as a nation is a big part of our heritage and traditions. I disagree mate but that's the beauty of living in a free country, we are allowed to have different opinions. Yes, absolutely. Diversity of opinions and perspectives is as important as diversity of cultures and backgrounds to the British identity!
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 21, 2023 16:38:14 GMT
I disagree mate but that's the beauty of living in a free country, we are allowed to have different opinions. Yes, absolutely. Diversity of opinions and perspectives is as important as diversity of cultures and backgrounds to the British identity! I disagree about the comparison but that's my right to do so.
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Post by foster on Sept 21, 2023 17:01:12 GMT
I disagree mate but that's the beauty of living in a free country, we are allowed to have different opinions. Yes, absolutely. Diversity of opinions and perspectives is as important as diversity of cultures and backgrounds to the British identity! As long as everyone has the same values then that's okay. Everyone has to accept everyone.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Sept 21, 2023 17:18:28 GMT
Economic Left/Right: -6.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.62 Where I thought I'd be. Economic Left/Right: -3.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95 🤷🏻♂️ Economic Left/Right: -3.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.64
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 21, 2023 17:19:53 GMT
Economic Left/Right: -3.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95 🤷🏻♂️ Economic Left/Right: -3.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.64 Two peas in a pod mate😉.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 21, 2023 17:24:17 GMT
Economic Left/Right: -3.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.64 Two peas in a pod mate😉. I don't really understand what it's saying.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 21, 2023 17:33:52 GMT
Economic Left/Right: -4.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54
Sandwiched in between Caroline Lucas and Nelson Mandela, lol.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 21, 2023 17:35:22 GMT
Economic Left/Right: -4.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54 Sandwiched in between Caroline Lucas and Nelson Mandela, lol. There’s a threesome to avoid!
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 21, 2023 17:37:16 GMT
I don't really understand what it's saying. It means you're closely aligned to the views of Angela Merkel.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 21, 2023 18:05:47 GMT
I don't really understand what it's saying. It means you're closely aligned to the views of Angela Merkel. Yr that makes sense actually.
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Post by gawa on Sept 21, 2023 18:12:10 GMT
Am I the wokiest of them all then?
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Post by iancransonsknees on Sept 21, 2023 18:16:34 GMT
Economic Left/Right: -4.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54 Sandwiched in between Caroline Lucas and Nelson Mandela, lol. Caroline Quintin and Winnie Mandela would be a fair compromise. In fact it's probably already a Noustie fantasy.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 21, 2023 18:24:34 GMT
Am I the wokiest of them all then? Economic Left/Right: 1.0 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.31 Does that mean I'm a lefty?
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Post by swampmongrel on Sept 21, 2023 18:25:21 GMT
Economic Left/Right: 0.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.1
The questions are badly designed. An example: The first responsibility of a mother is to be a home maker?
Well I agree with that, but I also think making a stable home for children is the first responsibility of FATHERS, as well. So the answer ‘agree’, which would presumably place me on the right, is actually a bit more nuanced.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 21, 2023 18:26:16 GMT
Economic Left/Right: 0.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.1 The questions are badly designed. An example: The first responsibility of a mother is to be a home maker? Well I agree with that, but I also think making a stable home for children is the first responsibility of FATHERS, as well. So the answer ‘agree’, which would presumably place me on the right, is actually a bit more nuanced. Oh yeh it’s a load of absolute bollocks, but a bit of fun to see people’s scores and poke fun😉
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Post by foster on Sept 21, 2023 18:26:22 GMT
Am I the wokiest of them all then? You went beyond woke into the 'Extreme Snowflake' category mate.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 21, 2023 18:28:15 GMT
www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/21/britain-is-much-more-liberal-minded-than-is-was-40-years-ago-study-findsI found this really interesting. The “woke” points of views from 1983 are the norm today. Will that trend continue? Yet a third of the population still see something wrong with a same sex relationship! Madness. “Age has become the biggest demographic divide in British politics since the pandemic, the study says, with younger people for the first time in 40 years becoming markedly more leftwing than older people, a development it says may be down to their sense of injustice around inequality and access to housing.“ That has to worry the tories! Or do people become more right wing with age?? Obviously this thread will descend very quickly into ridiculousness, but I thought worth flagging a fascinating article. Leaving the politics to one side for a second. Isn't that what always happens? That was 1983, right? 20 to 30 years before that, can you imagine the stuff that would've been considered "woke" back then, if such a term had existed! "Wogs, coons, darkies" "Poofters, benders, fags" "Micks, paddies, bogtrotters" "spaz, mongol, flid"....all that was considered largely normal and it would've been woke to go against it! All this stuff ever does is evolve and evolve. So that complaining, in some folks' eyes, becomes "right on" or "pc" or "do-gooding nonsense" or "virtue-signalling" etc until eventually it becomes abnormal to use that terminology and it drops from usage. All it really is, imo, at various time intervals, is those people who've been on the receiving end for so long becoming more visible and not willing to put up with it anymore. For anyone who wasn't inclined to need to single out certain sections of society for name-calling, abuse and victimisation, it's never been a problem to simply move on with the times. For others, it's less comfortable. I guess that's why all this trans, woke, whatever, nonsense just doesn't vex me in the way that it does with some folk. It has zero impact on my life. Why worry about it?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 21, 2023 18:28:28 GMT
Am I the wokiest of them all then? You went beyond woke into the 'Extreme Snowflake' category mate. I really wish the lefties would allow me to reintroduce my penchant for using the word on here. Life would be so much easier. But I’m nothing if not a man of my word😉
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