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Post by gawa on Sept 17, 2023 14:13:34 GMT
Can't believe I'm having to post such a ridiculous thread but there we go. I'm currently in an informal dispute (no solicitors yet) with my neighbour over a fence and it seems to be escalating and getting worse. I approached the neighbour in question to explain my intentions to replace the entire fence, posts and gravel boards at my expense. He did raise some initial concerns over maintaining the same height which I said would not be a problem. He also said that it was his boundary to maintain but I said I was happy to pay regardless and he was satisfied that he was getting a free fence. I checked my Property Information Form which has it down as Shared as such I felt happy to proceed. I have reason to believe this is erroneous. A week later, the fence was replaced. He has since engaged in a letter writing campaign, hand delivering increasingly hostile and unreasonable letters, basically saying the work I've had done is unacceptable. He only hand delivers these letters when my partner and kids are home which they are finding uncomfortable. His most recent was delivered just as they were heading out to school. He has repeatedly shouted at the guys who were trying to do the work and went as far as parking his car in between their van and my house while they were trying to get on. When I try to have a sensible discussion with him, he tends to back down and see a bit more reason but as soon as the conversation concludes, he's back to trying to intimidate my family and shouting at the blokes. Again, this is only ever when I'm out the house and unable to intervene. The boundary on the title plan is denoted by inward Ts as his to maintain, but he had failed to do for 30 years, hence me taking it upon myself to offer. He has contested this in writing and claims there was nothing wrong with the timber and posts which were damaged but I've plenty of photos that show the fence looking pretty rough. I suppose that's just opinions really. His letters are mostly full of fabrications and made up nonsense like that I didn't approach him with my intentions (this was witnessed by several people including the workers) and that the fence was removed before he had any chance to say anything. Again, the fence was removed a full 7 days after. Most of this can be easily disproven. What he actually wants... is simply the smooth/front side. He wants me to flip the fence panels. I am quite happy to do this... It's a fucking fence. However he's also put in writing that he expects me to maintain the fence going forward in case of storm damage or weather damage. His argument is: I commissioned it, it's my job to maintain it entirely at my expense. Maintain it, but also give him the fronts? He'll have me painting his house at this rate... We've hit an impasse quite frankly. He has offered no contribution financially and I never expected one. I went round at one point and suggested that if he wants the fronts, he make a very small contribution but after waiting a few days for me to go back to work, he simply hand delivered yet another letter rejecting this proposal with increasingly hostile language. He has also put in writing that he has refused to inspect the posts, gravel boards and fence and therefore any issues in the future, he will expect me to sort at my expense as he does not acknowledge that it has been constructed to a standard he approves. I will flip the panels but my concern is that by doing so, I'm implicitly agreeing to the terms he is setting out. He has repeatedly threatened legal action and keeps making comments like "this will end very badly for you". I've since refrained from further face-to-face conversation. They are not productive. I've spent hours on Google and even phoned Myers in Burslem who couldn't believe that it has got this far. The solicitor said "it's a wooden fence and I charge 300 pound an hour". Anyone else dealt with something similar? Anyone legally qualified to advise? Feel free to PM. There's every chance this could escalate further. Make an account on reddit on the sub legaladviceuk you will get alot of good advice on there.
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Post by emretezzy on Sept 17, 2023 14:13:36 GMT
Can't believe I'm having to post such a ridiculous thread but there we go. I'm currently in an informal dispute (no solicitors yet) with my neighbour over a fence and it seems to be escalating and getting worse. I approached the neighbour in question to explain my intentions to replace the entire fence, posts and gravel boards at my expense. He did raise some initial concerns over maintaining the same height which I said would not be a problem. He also said that it was his boundary to maintain but I said I was happy to pay regardless and he was satisfied that he was getting a free fence. I checked my Property Information Form which has it down as Shared as such I felt happy to proceed. I have reason to believe this is erroneous. A week later, the fence was replaced. He has since engaged in a letter writing campaign, hand delivering increasingly hostile and unreasonable letters, basically saying the work I've had done is unacceptable. He only hand delivers these letters when my partner and kids are home which they are finding uncomfortable. His most recent was delivered just as they were heading out to school. He has repeatedly shouted at the guys who were trying to do the work and went as far as parking his car in between their van and my house while they were trying to get on. When I try to have a sensible discussion with him, he tends to back down and see a bit more reason but as soon as the conversation concludes, he's back to trying to intimidate my family and shouting at the blokes. Again, this is only ever when I'm out the house and unable to intervene. The boundary on the title plan is denoted by inward Ts as his to maintain, but he had failed to do for 30 years, hence me taking it upon myself to offer. He has contested this in writing and claims there was nothing wrong with the timber and posts which were damaged but I've plenty of photos that show the fence looking pretty rough. I suppose that's just opinions really. His letters are mostly full of fabrications and made up nonsense like that I didn't approach him with my intentions (this was witnessed by several people including the workers) and that the fence was removed before he had any chance to say anything. Again, the fence was removed a full 7 days after. Most of this can be easily disproven. What he actually wants... is simply the smooth/front side. He wants me to flip the fence panels. I am quite happy to do this... It's a fucking fence. However he's also put in writing that he expects me to maintain the fence going forward in case of storm damage or weather damage. His argument is: I commissioned it, it's my job to maintain it entirely at my expense. Maintain it, but also give him the fronts? He'll have me painting his house at this rate... We've hit an impasse quite frankly. He has offered no contribution financially and I never expected one. I went round at one point and suggested that if he wants the fronts, he make a very small contribution but after waiting a few days for me to go back to work, he simply hand delivered yet another letter rejecting this proposal with increasingly hostile language. He has also put in writing that he has refused to inspect the posts, gravel boards and fence and therefore any issues in the future, he will expect me to sort at my expense as he does not acknowledge that it has been constructed to a standard he approves. I will flip the panels but my concern is that by doing so, I'm implicitly agreeing to the terms he is setting out. He has repeatedly threatened legal action and keeps making comments like "this will end very badly for you". I've since refrained from further face-to-face conversation. They are not productive. I've spent hours on Google and even phoned Myers in Burslem who couldn't believe that it has got this far. The solicitor said "it's a wooden fence and I charge 300 pound an hour". Anyone else dealt with something similar? Anyone legally qualified to advise? Feel free to PM. There's every chance this could escalate further. Don't flip the panels. Play him at his own game and hand deliver a letter asking for 50%.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 17, 2023 14:15:38 GMT
No, but he didn't raise any concerns about wanting the front either? Nothing was agreed other than I would replace at my expense, which again, I have no issue with. If he doesn't want any involvement with the maintenance, then why should he benefit from the work I've paid for it by getting the front? Because you really should have established that before you erected it. So in your mind, you always believed that if he got the fronts then you would share the maintenance but if you got the fronts then you would be solely responsible for the maintenance? But you didn't actually discuss this with him? It seems like a pretty fundamental thing to have agreed upon, prior to erecting the fence, rather than bringing it up now. What side were the fronts on on the original fence? So how do you think I should proceed?
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Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 17, 2023 14:19:06 GMT
Surely you’ve got to just whack him?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 17, 2023 14:44:12 GMT
Because you really should have established that before you erected it. So in your mind, you always believed that if he got the fronts then you would share the maintenance but if you got the fronts then you would be solely responsible for the maintenance? But you didn't actually discuss this with him? It seems like a pretty fundamental thing to have agreed upon, prior to erecting the fence, rather than bringing it up now. What side were the fronts on on the original fence? So how do you think I should proceed? As you didn't answer my question, I'm assuming the fronts were originally on his side. If that's the case, I'd switch them to back to represent the original fence (I'd be pissed off too if I was him) and accept that you were happy to maintain the fence originally and that there wasn't ever any discussion that included him in being responsible for the maintenance, prior to the new one being erected.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 17, 2023 14:55:12 GMT
So how do you think I should proceed? As you didn't answer my question, I'm assuming the fronts were originally on his side. If that's the case, I'd switch them to back to represent the original fence (I'd be pissed off too if I was him) and accept that you were happy to maintain the fence originally and that there wasn't ever any discussion that included him in being responsible for the maintenance, prior to the new one being erected. Good thing I'm not legally obligated to do so (RE ongoing maintenance) because in my opinion that's extremely unreasonable. No idea if your response is clouded by the fact we've clashed in other threads but there we go. The fence is a like for like replacement. Posts, gravel boards, panels.... Hence there is no more or less maintenance burden than before, in fact probably less as this one is new and not absolutely battered.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 17, 2023 15:11:33 GMT
As you didn't answer my question, I'm assuming the fronts were originally on his side. If that's the case, I'd switch them to back to represent the original fence (I'd be pissed off too if I was him) and accept that you were happy to maintain the fence originally and that there wasn't ever any discussion that included him in being responsible for the maintenance, prior to the new one being erected. No idea if your response is clouded by the fact we've clashed in other threads but there we go. What an utterly daft and pretty insulting thing to say. My response is based on logic and in the facts as you've (eventually) revealed them to be. You told him you'd replace the fence and he wouldn't have to pay for it. You never mentioned to him anything about switching the fronts round, prior to erecting the new fence. If you wanted him to be equally responsible for the maintenance of the fence that you have chosen, then you should have established that with him before erecting it. I'm just pointing out to you the sort of responses you're going to get if you head down the legal route. And as an aside, I can't ever remember ever 'clashing' with you over anything, ever.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 17, 2023 15:34:26 GMT
No idea if your response is clouded by the fact we've clashed in other threads but there we go. What an utterly daft and pretty insulting thing to say. My response is based on logic and in the facts as you've (eventually) revealed them to be. You told him you'd replace the fence and he wouldn't have to pay for it. You never mentioned to him anything about switching the fronts round, prior to erecting the new fence. If you wanted him to be equally responsible for the maintenance of the fence that you have chosen, then you should have established that with him before erecting it. I'm just pointing out to you the sort of responses you're going to get if you head down the legal route. And as an aside, I can't ever remember ever 'clashing' with you over anything, ever. I've not hidden the facts Paul. Well, I don't think. All of what you've said is true but if he expects like for like then to me, it is like for like in all manner. He never raised an issue regarding fence orientation during our first conversation. If he had done so, I naturally would have handled things differently. I've never had a contract written up for a fence. That's the kind of thing that most people can sort with a sensible conversation. If you honestly think his behaviour (dropping letters round to my missus and kids only) is more reasonable than mine has, then fair enough. Ultimately, I don't want or need this to go the legal route. Equally I don't want to be replacing fence panels every 2 years because there's an expectation on me to do so. Reality is, I won't be but the letters will restart.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 17, 2023 15:46:17 GMT
What an utterly daft and pretty insulting thing to say. My response is based on logic and in the facts as you've (eventually) revealed them to be. You told him you'd replace the fence and he wouldn't have to pay for it. You never mentioned to him anything about switching the fronts round, prior to erecting the new fence. If you wanted him to be equally responsible for the maintenance of the fence that you have chosen, then you should have established that with him before erecting it. I'm just pointing out to you the sort of responses you're going to get if you head down the legal route. And as an aside, I can't ever remember ever 'clashing' with you over anything, ever. If you honestly think his behaviour (dropping letters round to my missus and kids only) is more reasonable than mine has, then fair enough. I haven't said or remotely implied this, frankly I don't know what you're on about. Why would he have needed to bring up the orientation of the panels initially, if it was your intention to switch them, then surely the onus was on you to bring it up, not him. As you say, you don't need this and personally I don't think it's worth the trouble. If it's a brand new fence that has been installed properly, then it should be good until you ultimately move house and if in the meantime, a panel comes down in high winds, then it's not a big deal to put it back up. And right now, I'd be asking myself, is all this hassle worth insuring that you and him split that bill if the day ever materialises? It wouldn't be for me.
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Post by neworleanstokie on Sept 17, 2023 15:49:17 GMT
I spent 6 months installing fences in Connecticut back in the 80s. The "good" side of the the fence always had to face outwards. Surprised the UK doesn't have the same.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 17, 2023 15:59:58 GMT
Metalhead
Mentioned this just to someone who actually knows what they're talking about and she's messaged you on how to handle it within the law etc and what suits you rather than someone who doesn't 👍
Hope it helps
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 17, 2023 16:01:33 GMT
No idea if your response is clouded by the fact we've clashed in other threads but there we go. What an utterly daft and pretty insulting thing to say. My response is based on logic and in the facts as you've (eventually) revealed them to be. You told him you'd replace the fence and he wouldn't have to pay for it. You never mentioned to him anything about switching the fronts round, prior to erecting the new fence. If you wanted him to be equally responsible for the maintenance of the fence that you have chosen, then you should have established that with him before erecting it. I'm just pointing out to you the sort of responses you're going to get if you head down the legal route. And as an aside, I can't ever remember ever 'clashing' with you over anything, ever. If one neighbour willingly covers the cost of a new fence without requesting any contribution, even though they are not obligated to do so, and both neighbours derive benefits from it, then it stands to reason that any future maintenance should be a shared responsibility. This approach aligns with principles of fairness and, potentially, legal considerations. This fairness-based arrangement should be understood without requiring explicit clarification.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 17, 2023 16:21:00 GMT
What an utterly daft and pretty insulting thing to say. My response is based on logic and in the facts as you've (eventually) revealed them to be. You told him you'd replace the fence and he wouldn't have to pay for it. You never mentioned to him anything about switching the fronts round, prior to erecting the new fence. If you wanted him to be equally responsible for the maintenance of the fence that you have chosen, then you should have established that with him before erecting it. I'm just pointing out to you the sort of responses you're going to get if you head down the legal route. And as an aside, I can't ever remember ever 'clashing' with you over anything, ever. If one neighbour willingly covers the cost of a new fence without requesting any contribution, even though they are not obligated to do so, and both neighbours derive benefits from it, then it stands to reason that any future maintenance should be a shared responsibility. This approach aligns with principles of fairness and, potentially, legal considerations. This fairness-based arrangement should be understood without requiring explicit clarification. Wouldn't life be fantastic if we could rely on the principle of 'fairness' to see us through? We'd no longer need divorce lawyers, probate lawyers, injury claim lawyers etc. etc. Why should the neighbour be obliged to maintain a fence that (in his opinion) hasn't been constructed properly? The reason you agree on these sort of things prior to commencing the work, is to avoid exactly these type of scenarios developing. I'm sure Metalhead would approach doing something similar in the future a bit differently and personally I'd put this one down to experience. As I said further up, I don't think he's got a whole lot to worry about regarding the fence's maintenance and any cost that might be eventually incurred, isn't worth the grief now.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 17, 2023 16:21:57 GMT
Flip the fence panels then start a campaign of incognito skullduggery for the next few months to the point where he’s frightened to leave his own home.
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Post by aureliuspotter on Sept 17, 2023 16:25:21 GMT
If one neighbour willingly covers the cost of a new fence without requesting any contribution, even though they are not obligated to do so, and both neighbours derive benefits from it, then it stands to reason that any future maintenance should be a shared responsibility. This approach aligns with principles of fairness and, potentially, legal considerations. This fairness-based arrangement should be understood without requiring explicit clarification. Wouldn't life be fantastic if we could rely on the principle of 'fairness' to see us through? We'd no longer need divorce lawyers, probate lawyers, injury claim lawyers etc. etc. Why should the neighbour be obliged to maintain a fence that (in his opinion) hasn't been constructed properly? The reason you agree on these sort of things prior to commencing the work, is to avoid exactly these type of scenarios developing. I'm sure Metalhead would approach doing something similar in the future a bit differently and personally I'd put this one down to experience. As I said further up, I don't think he's got a whole lot to worry about regarding the fence's maintenance and any cost that might be eventually incurred, isn't worth the grief now. Since ownership is shared, any future maintenance responsibilities do not legally solely fall on metalhead. Consequently, if the neighbor objects, they can choose to lump it.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 17, 2023 16:28:14 GMT
Flip the fence panels then start a campaign of incognito skullduggery for the next few months to the point where he’s frightened to leave his own home. Or better still, until he's frightened enough to sell up!
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Post by sticky on Sept 17, 2023 16:45:44 GMT
Letter in the bin, and then big hello and smiles everytime you see him👍🏻
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Post by wannabee on Sept 17, 2023 16:55:17 GMT
Funny thing is that I've also got a dispute going on with my neighbour. We had a perfectly fine fence in place, good height, good condition, plenty of mileage left in the tank. Then one day, totally out of the blue, he hires these rough looking blokes to tear the whole thing down and replaces it with something you'd expect to see on the USA/Mexico border, without my permission. Worse still, the nobber put all the back panels on my side. Just who the hell does he think he is. Tried talking to him but he keeps hiding. I've now resorted to trying to hand deliver letters to him but he's such a pussy that he keeps sending his wife and kids to the door. Cheeky bastard has also now sent me a letter asking me to 'contribute' towards paying for that monstrosity. He can fuck right off. Lol. Made me chuckle at least. The fence was like for like Your neighbour is a knob and Foster has rather wittily laid out his knobby position but you are not going to like my answer The fence was your neighbours to repair and he may have been quite happy for it to remain as it was. Your mistake was proceeding without full agreement on costs (very noble of you to pay as most non knobs would acknowledge) how is should be faced and future maintenance My advice is to sort it at all costs (probably via an arbitrator) or you will have years of misery. If you can't resolve take LordB's advice
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Post by metalhead on Sept 17, 2023 18:32:49 GMT
Lol. Made me chuckle at least. The fence was like for like Your neighbour is a knob and Foster has rather wittily laid out his knobby position but you are not going to like my answer The fence was your neighbours to repair and he may have been quite happy for it to remain as it was. Your mistake was proceeding without full agreement on costs (very noble of you to pay as most non knobs would acknowledge) how is should be faced and future maintenance My advice is to sort it at all costs (probably via an arbitrator) or you will have years of misery. If you can't resolve take LordB's advice I suppose if I just flip them and forget it, I can deal with the next bridge when and if it comes to it. It may never happen and I appreciate that I am trying to preempt something. Naturally you can't predict these things. You and Paul Spencer are right that I would of course handle things differently if I did this again. I've always handled these discussions with a simple conversation and usually that has worked. It's an ongoing lesson.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 17, 2023 18:34:57 GMT
Your neighbour is a knob and Foster has rather wittily laid out his knobby position but you are not going to like my answer The fence was your neighbours to repair and he may have been quite happy for it to remain as it was. Your mistake was proceeding without full agreement on costs (very noble of you to pay as most non knobs would acknowledge) how is should be faced and future maintenance My advice is to sort it at all costs (probably via an arbitrator) or you will have years of misery. If you can't resolve take LordB's advice I suppose if I just flip them and forget it, I can deal with the next bridge when and if it comes to it. It may never happen and I appreciate that I am trying to preempt something. Naturally you can't predict these things. You and Paul Spencer are right that I would of course handle things differently if I did this again. I've always handled these discussions with a simple conversation and usually that has worked. It's an ongoing lesson. You’re just asking for sensible advice mate, nothing wrong with that. That said, I’d probably rate mine as the best and most straight forward😉 Imagine the things you could do over the next few months, I’d be really excited about it😏
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Post by metalhead on Sept 17, 2023 18:35:43 GMT
Flip the fence panels then start a campaign of incognito skullduggery for the next few months to the point where he’s frightened to leave his own home. Any recommendations?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 17, 2023 18:42:38 GMT
Flip the fence panels then start a campaign of incognito skullduggery for the next few months to the point where he’s frightened to leave his own home. Any recommendations? I’d say keep a close eye on his usual habits over the next few weeks and plan from there. Maximise the damage to things he cares about. For example, if he’s a keen gardener, poison some of his favourite plants in the dead of night as a starter. Just something relatively minor then up the ante once you know more about him😀
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Sept 17, 2023 18:46:15 GMT
Break into his house in the dead of night. Enter his bedroom and shush him to sleep gently stroking his head.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 17, 2023 18:47:06 GMT
Break into his house in the dead of night. Enter his bedroom and shush him to sleep gently stroking his head. Wearing a gas mask like “Dead Man’s Shoes”
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 17, 2023 18:48:26 GMT
I think my work here is done. Maybe Metalhead could create a thread similar to Musiks laundry room thread and update his exploits every week or so
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Post by hcstokie on Sept 17, 2023 18:59:56 GMT
I wouldn’t flip the fences for a start.
It sounds like you’ve done the right thing by getting a timeline and photos in place, so carry on with this.
I’d also approach him and request access to his garden so that you can take photos of the fence/condition from his side. If he’s unwilling to inspect to verify the installation or condition then offer to do this for him, and tell him why you’re doing so.
I’d also speak to him and explain that the hand delivered letters are making your wife feel uncomfortable. Follow this up in writing and a text or email if you have his details and keep this on record. If he persists, have a further conversation and put it in writing that you expressly forbid him from steeping foot on your property, including driveways, footpaths, doorsteps, etc. Inform him that if he continues to persist you will report it as trespass.
That should stop the letters being delivered whilst you’re out. If they start being posted, keep them all and report it to the police, along with any others already received. Request an injunction due to the distress caused if necessary.
The bloke sounds like a prick so play him at his own game.
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Post by lagwafis on Sept 17, 2023 19:01:45 GMT
I’d say keep a close eye on his usual habits over the next few weeks and plan from there. Maximise the damage to things he cares about. For example, if he’s a keen gardener, poison some of his favourite plants in the dead of night as a starter. Just something relatively minor then up the ante once you know more about him😀
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 17, 2023 19:20:44 GMT
I’d say keep a close eye on his usual habits over the next few weeks and plan from there. Maximise the damage to things he cares about. For example, if he’s a keen gardener, poison some of his favourite plants in the dead of night as a starter. Just something relatively minor then up the ante once you know more about him😀 Is the suspect Iancransonsknees? Besides, all the spelling looks on point there, no way it’s SOT Live
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Post by noustie on Sept 17, 2023 19:21:41 GMT
Flip the fence panels then start a campaign of incognito skullduggery for the next few months to the point where he’s frightened to leave his own home. Any recommendations? Every time you're pissed pinch ornaments, gnomes etc from the whole street. Once you have a massive stash in your garage display them on his front lawn covertly through the night and watch on as the neighbourhood knocks on to get them back the next morning. You're moving anyway so fuck 'em 👍
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 17, 2023 19:29:54 GMT
Every time you're pissed pinch ornaments, gnomes etc from the whole street. Once you have a massive stash in your garage display them on his front lawn covertly through the night and watch on as the neighbourhood knocks on to get them back the next morning. You're moving anyway so fuck 'em 👍 That is perfect, and he’ll have great fun doing it. Got to turn a negative into huge positive in these cases. Depending on Metalheads relationship with his other neighbours it might be a good idea to get them all in on it for maximum satisfaction
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