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Post by independent on Sept 6, 2023 12:45:49 GMT
After 2022, when we won the Euros and 2023's runners up in the World Cup, what would count as progress in 2024.
In 2023 Arsenal increased their average attendance to 17,000 by playing 3 games in the Emirates to attendances of over 40,000. Next season they intend to play 5 games in the main Stadium,to raise it even further.
On the other hand Reading and Leicester played all their home games in their Men's Stadiums. Reading finished up with an average of 2,012. Leicester had an attendance of 2.920. Reading were relegated and have gone back to Part Time Football.They have been replaced with Bristol City who plan to play their home games at Ashton Gate.
Last Season the total attendance at 132 WSL League games with free and very low priced tickets was 741,312. Stoke City alone,for example,sold 500,443 tickets last year at a much higher price, and probably had at least three times the gate money of the WSL.
If the entire WSL gate money next season equalled that of Stoke City, should that be counted as a success? Or how should success be measured?
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Sept 6, 2023 12:54:48 GMT
Don’t Arsenal play at The Emirates?
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Post by cvillestokie on Sept 6, 2023 12:56:13 GMT
After 2022, when we won the Euros and 2023's runners up in the World Cup, what would count as progress in 2024. In 2023 Arsenal increased their average attendance to 17,000 by playing 3 games in the Ethihad to attendances of over 40,000. Next season they intend to play 5 games in the main Stadium,to raise it even further. On the other hand Reading and Leicester played all their home games in their Men's Stadiums. Reading finished up with an average of 2,012. Leicester had an attendance of 2.920. Reading were relegated and have gone back to Part Time Football.They have been replaced with Bristol City who plan to play their home games at Ashton Gate. Last Season the total attendance at 132 WSL League games with free and very low priced tickets was 741,312. Stoke City alone,for example,sold 500,443 tickets last year at a much higher price, and probably had at least three times the gate money of the WSL. If the entire WSL gate money next season equalled that of Stoke City, should that be counted as a success? Or how should success be measured? I would say that year-on-year increases in revenue, attendance figures, brand exposure etc would be considered a success. I.e. business growth by some specified margin that the clubs have in mind (10%?) would be a very good measure of success. I don’t see why anyone would want to compare it to that of Stoke or any other aspect of men’s football? |
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Post by thevoid on Sept 6, 2023 13:08:31 GMT
A separate tab on the sports sites would be lovely
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Post by independent on Sept 6, 2023 13:15:37 GMT
Don’t Arsenal play at The Emirates? Oops, sorry, you're right. Thanks for the correction.  |
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Post by independent on Sept 6, 2023 13:23:11 GMT
After 2022, when we won the Euros and 2023's runners up in the World Cup, what would count as progress in 2024. In 2023 Arsenal increased their average attendance to 17,000 by playing 3 games in the Ethihad to attendances of over 40,000. Next season they intend to play 5 games in the main Stadium,to raise it even further. On the other hand Reading and Leicester played all their home games in their Men's Stadiums. Reading finished up with an average of 2,012. Leicester had an attendance of 2.920. Reading were relegated and have gone back to Part Time Football.They have been replaced with Bristol City who plan to play their home games at Ashton Gate. Last Season the total attendance at 132 WSL League games with free and very low priced tickets was 741,312. Stoke City alone,for example,sold 500,443 tickets last year at a much higher price, and probably had at least three times the gate money of the WSL. If the entire WSL gate money next season equalled that of Stoke City, should that be counted as a success? Or how should success be measured? I would say that year-on-year increases in revenue, attendance figures, brand exposure etc would be considered a success. I.e. business growth by some specified margin that the clubs have in mind (10%?) would be a very good measure of success. I don’t see why anyone would want to compare it to that of Stoke or any other aspect of men’s football? I doubt that the local computer and hardware store I use compares themselves to Apple. The comparison was mainly for context, hence the final question. How do you measure brand exposure? Incidentally, does your local computer or hardware store manufacture iPhones? |
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Post by TinkerT on Sept 6, 2023 13:27:33 GMT
It's always going be a very limited market and don't think it will change. Its basically a totally different sport, much slower etc. Put it this way, if stoke ladies even played in the top league and there was a top of the table clash on TV in the Championship I'd stay in and watch the championship game. Its got a huge way to improve and I don't know how they'd grow the market, because I can't see many men going watch a woman's game and being so passionate as they do with mens football.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 6, 2023 13:37:14 GMT
It's always going be a very limited market and don't think it will change. Its basically a totally different sport, much slower etc. Put it this way, if stoke ladies even played in the top league and there was a top of the table clash on TV in the Championship I'd stay in and watch the championship game. Its got a huge way to improve and I don't know how they'd grow the market, because I can't see many men going watch a woman's game and being so passionate as they do with mens football. It'll be a long time before blokes gather round the water cooler to chat about the latest goings on in the WSL |
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Post by cvillestokie on Sept 6, 2023 13:39:38 GMT
I would say that year-on-year increases in revenue, attendance figures, brand exposure etc would be considered a success. I.e. business growth by some specified margin that the clubs have in mind (10%?) would be a very good measure of success. I don’t see why anyone would want to compare it to that of Stoke or any other aspect of men’s football? I doubt that the local computer and hardware store I use compares themselves to Apple. The comparison was mainly for context, hence the final question. How do you measure brand exposure? Incidentally, does your local computer or hardware store manufacture iPhones? I deleted the comment because I felt it would change the conversation. However, yes, in 30 years my local computer store could be a general tech manufacturer. I would measure brand exposure by advertisement revenue, ticket sales, tv viewership. As long as they see those rise, they will be happy. They’ll have market experts that will be able to give expected %’s to achieve. Personally, I think that they should be looking at the long game. Create role models WITHIN a community. They are sorely lacking in the sport, regardless of gender. |
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Post by noustie on Sept 6, 2023 13:51:15 GMT
Personally I think there's pro's and con's as to hitching their wagon to the Premier League big boys - obviously they're getting exposure and subsidized via the blokes game which to be honest is probably the only way it is currently sustainable especially if they want to expand the number of professional players/ teams.
However, for me a big draw back is it becomes plastic like the SPL - the big teams will hoover up the talent and the gap to the other teams in the league will be massive so completely pointless from a competitive perspective especially in comparison to national teams in the World Cup.
The market for me is dads with daughters and that should grow the more girls play. If I lived in Glasgow I'd consider going watch Glasgow City but in terms of Dundee United they're still very amateur around an astro with the gap massive. Similarly if down in Stoke I'd be torn if wee lass fancied going watch Man City/ United women for example.
Realistically growing bums on seats is probably the main target as doubt tv companies as part of their ESG are going to punt it any time soon plus the main side of the business with also score ESG points/ tax benefits - with it making a loss bet there's tax incentives for punting money into it.
Be interesting to see if the Saudi's come calling as part of their sports washing because that could blow the entire league up if the big players took the pay packet potentially leaving another women's league unsustainable.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Sept 6, 2023 14:15:48 GMT
Not just the WSL but further down the pyramid too. It'd be good to see Stoke at least double their attendance on a regular basis.
I think continued growth and media coverage and interest is a success. Media coverage is largely what attracts people to sports - it's about the personalities and going to watch people/teams you know.
I find it disappointing when the standard of women's football is criticised or people say things like "it's a different game." Women's football has progressed massively in recent years, no thanks to national associations like the FA, who whatever they do will never make up for effectively banning women's football. At least they have and are taking big steps to try and right that wrong.
I also don't get that women's football is slow and that's a criticism. Anyone remember Brighton in the cup at our place last season? That's how they play and get lauded for. Looking at the speed of the game another way, at the England vs Luxembourg match at The Brit, the ball was barely out of play. I nearly missed a penalty kick because in the men's game I'm so used to set pieces taking ages. Not that I think it's helpful comparing, but that's what I see as positive in response to the negativity. It's all just football to me.
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Post by independent on Sept 6, 2023 14:21:26 GMT
The comparison was mainly for context, hence the final question. How do you measure brand exposure? Incidentally, does your local computer or hardware store manufacture iPhones? I deleted the comment because I felt it would change the conversation. However, yes, in 30 years my local computer store could be a general tech manufacturer. I would measure brand exposure by advertisement revenue, ticket sales, tv viewership. As long as they see those rise, they will be happy. They’ll have market experts that will be able to give expected %’s to achieve. Personally, I think that they should be looking at the long game. Create role models WITHIN a community. They are sorely lacking in the sport, regardless of gender. I doubt it, and i'd guess they don't make iPads either. I think that you are right about the long game and personally I think their impatience will damage the growth of the WSL. It's very hard to know what they actually want to achieve. 1.Is it a female version of the Premier League, dominating the football landscape,which I believe is the case. 2.Or is it a family centred, low cost version of the game without the excesses of the Premier League. To me both would seem mutually exclusive. They don't seem to have identified what their target audience is yet. Until they do decide, it will not be possible to devise a proper means of getting there. I imagine World Domination is very attractive and probably achieveable in the present undeveloped state of Womens' Football, given sufficient Investment. 35% of the players in the recent World Cup were Amateurs and the USA are in what could prove a terminal decline. None of the European Leagues are doing well and are vulnerable to having their best players poached by the WSL Clubs. |
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Post by foster on Sept 6, 2023 14:28:13 GMT
It's always going be a very limited market and don't think it will change. Its basically a totally different sport, much slower etc. Put it this way, if stoke ladies even played in the top league and there was a top of the table clash on TV in the Championship I'd stay in and watch the championship game. Its got a huge way to improve and I don't know how they'd grow the market, because I can't see many men going watch a woman's game and being so passionate as they do with mens football. It'll be a long time before blokes gather round the water cooler to chat about the latest goings on in the WSL I just don't have the time or inclination to bother with it. After Stoke, the Prem, Champs League, Top European leagues, other sports.... where do you then fit in womens football. Maybe women will take to it in a big way and it will be able to sustain itself in the future. I just don't see many blokes investing much interest in it when there are already so much high quality mens football about. |
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Post by independent on Sept 6, 2023 14:38:56 GMT
Not just the WSL but further down the pyramid too. It'd be good to see Stoke at least double their attendance on a regular basis. I think continued growth and media coverage and interest is a success. Media coverage is largely what attracts people to sports - it's about the personalities and going to watch people/teams you know. I find it disappointing when the standard of women's football is criticised or people say things like "it's a different game." Women's football has progressed massively in recent years, no thanks to national associations like the FA, who whatever they do will never make up for effectively banning women's football. At least they have and are taking big steps to try and right that wrong. I also don't get that women's football is slow and that's a criticism. Anyone remember Brighton in the cup at our place last season? That's how they play and get lauded for. Looking at the speed of the game another way, at the England vs Luxembourg match at The Brit, the ball was barely out of play. I nearly missed a penalty kick because in the men's game I'm so used to set pieces taking ages. Not that I think it's helpful comparing, but that's what I see as positive in response to the negativity. It's all just football to me. I agree that it would be great to see attendances double at Stoke Womens' games. Hopefully ,you are right about Media coverage driving attendances. The evidence so far suggests that people will watch it on free to air TV. Nothing suggests that people would pay SKY a subscription to view it. The ultimate test is whether people will attend league games on a regular basis. If you can develop a regular attendance even at low prices, you have a chance of the game taking off. If you can't get people to go each week then it won't grow. The state of the game at the moment? What we are looking at is a mirage. |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Sept 6, 2023 14:49:43 GMT
Not just the WSL but further down the pyramid too. It'd be good to see Stoke at least double their attendance on a regular basis. I think continued growth and media coverage and interest is a success. Media coverage is largely what attracts people to sports - it's about the personalities and going to watch people/teams you know. I find it disappointing when the standard of women's football is criticised or people say things like "it's a different game." Women's football has progressed massively in recent years, no thanks to national associations like the FA, who whatever they do will never make up for effectively banning women's football. At least they have and are taking big steps to try and right that wrong. I also don't get that women's football is slow and that's a criticism. Anyone remember Brighton in the cup at our place last season? That's how they play and get lauded for. Looking at the speed of the game another way, at the England vs Luxembourg match at The Brit, the ball was barely out of play. I nearly missed a penalty kick because in the men's game I'm so used to set pieces taking ages. Not that I think it's helpful comparing, but that's what I see as positive in response to the negativity. It's all just football to me. I agree that it would be great to see attendances double at Stoke Womens' games. Hopefully ,you are right about Media coverage driving attendances. The evidence so far suggests that people will watch it on free to air TV. Nothing suggests that people would pay SKY a subscription to view it. The ultimate test is whether people will attend league games on a regular basis. If you can develop a regular attendance even at low prices, you have a chance of the game taking off. If you can't get people to go each week then it won't grow. The state of the game at the moment? What we are looking at is a mirage. I'm no expert but try to take a balanced viewpoint and think attendances and revenue will take years to grow to what most of the general public will see as successful. And that apparent slow growth shouldn't be used as a stick to beat women's football, but inevitably will be by those who want to see it fail or just like being critical of everything (most of this forum then for the latter  ). |
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tricky
Spectator
long time coming..
Posts: 22 
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Post by tricky on Sept 6, 2023 15:01:05 GMT
Hi. I don’t post on here v often, more just a browser but anything related to the women’s game usually draws some interesting comments. Anyway for what it’s worth Newcastle Town (men) are currently pulling in about 100 watching punters every home game. Should we consign them to the bin as hardly anyone is interested? They pay their players and have ex pros on the board (previously managed them etc). What would be a marker for success for them? Can we grow that product - ie the non league watcher? Comparing the women’s game to the men’s is like comparing cheese to eggs, they’re not the same and to be fair I hope they go no where near the men’s model. Some are trying to align the two and for me, that’d be a massive mistake. As it stands at the moment it’s a cheap alternative and the quality’s ok. For some on here to think they’d compete on the same field are significant blowing their own trumpet. One or two might but not many. Anyway back to browsing ….oh and anyone thinks the women’s game is overhyped, christ the shyte sky are coming out with the moment is mind blowing, especially after the Arsenal v MU game on Sunday. Wow just wow, it’s as if they’re trying to sell sand to the arabs the bull crap they’re spouting.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 6, 2023 15:11:45 GMT
It'll be a long time before blokes gather round the water cooler to chat about the latest goings on in the WSL I just don't have the time or inclination to bother with it. After Stoke, the Prem, Champs League, Top European leagues, other sports.... where do you then fit in womens football. Maybe women will take to it in a big way and it will be able to sustain itself in the future. I just don't see many blokes investing much interest in it when there are already so much high quality mens football about. I wonder how many females would start attending women's games as opposed to men's games? There are probably quite a few females who have supported their (men's) team for years. I'm not sure if the WSL will ever shrug off it's perception of being the BDO to the Premier League's PDC. I also think that a successful England ladies team attracts a few bandwagon jumpers when the tournament's on, but most of those will gravitate back to their favourite men's team after. A bit like the Olympics, where everyone suddenly become cycling or rowing fanatics for a fortnight. How many pop down to their nearest velodrome after the games are over? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2023 16:43:11 GMT
A success would be the club's not losing money on having a women's team.
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Post by cvillestokie on Sept 6, 2023 17:16:17 GMT
It'll be a long time before blokes gather round the water cooler to chat about the latest goings on in the WSL I just don't have the time or inclination to bother with it. After Stoke, the Prem, Champs League, Top European leagues, other sports.... where do you then fit in womens football. Maybe women will take to it in a big way and it will be able to sustain itself in the future. I just don't see many blokes investing much interest in it when there are already so much high quality mens football about. Unless those blokes have daughters/granddaughters and want to find a good way to bond with them over sport? |
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Post by luciani on Sept 6, 2023 17:32:37 GMT
You only have to look at the proliferation of girls teams in all age groups across the country to see that women’s football is set for a successful future👍
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Post by independent on Sept 7, 2023 1:11:04 GMT
Hi. I don’t post on here v often, more just a browser but anything related to the women’s game usually draws some interesting comments. Anyway for what it’s worth Newcastle Town (men) are currently pulling in about 100 watching punters every home game. Should we consign them to the bin as hardly anyone is interested? They pay their players and have ex pros on the board (previously managed them etc). What would be a marker for success for them? Can we grow that product - ie the non league watcher? Comparing the women’s game to the men’s is like comparing cheese to eggs, they’re not the same and to be fair I hope they go no where near the men’s model. Some are trying to align the two and for me, that’d be a massive mistake. As it stands at the moment it’s a cheap alternative and the quality’s ok. For some on here to think they’d compete on the same field are significant blowing their own trumpet. One or two might but not many. Anyway back to browsing ….oh and anyone thinks the women’s game is overhyped, christ the shyte sky are coming out with the moment is mind blowing, especially after the Arsenal v MU game on Sunday. Wow just wow, it’s as if they’re trying to sell sand to the arabs the bull crap they’re spouting. Please explain how they manage to pay their their players and running costs with 100 supporters. This could be a blueprint for other clubs. |
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