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Post by cvillestokie on Aug 19, 2023 21:03:09 GMT
He needs to have a good relationship with his centre mid. Once he builds that, he’ll be even better. We lack a lot of forward momentum in midfield and he compensates for that really well. He has great output.
I hope he does just under enough that Wolves don’t take him back in January and more than enough that we can really see him shine for 6 months after that.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 19, 2023 21:03:44 GMT
Had a mare today but ran himself into the ground.
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Post by gingerninja on Aug 19, 2023 21:06:22 GMT
Agreed Dave, very little went right for him and got a bit exposed second half down his side..
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2023 21:06:34 GMT
I thought he was struggling with his hip/lower back second half probably from the early foul challenge on him. I was worrying who we could bring on if he had to go off. We definitely need cover. Credit to him for the way he stuck at it today. At the final whistle he just collapsed to the ground bringing to mind Liam Lawrence doing the same in a home match towards the end of our promotion season I wonder if Leris is considered his cover, or if he’d be used more advanced. Sounds like a versatile workhorse so it could well fit in. Gutted that Tchamadeu hasn’t happened but at least we’re making moves to rectify the depth issues.
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Post by philb on Aug 19, 2023 21:07:20 GMT
Thought he was poor today. Wasn’t his usual marauding self and looked reluctant to really push himself when on the ball. Although did look like he had some sort of injury with how he was moving in the second half so maybe that was the problem.
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Post by baconburger on Aug 19, 2023 21:08:18 GMT
Had a mare today but ran himself into the ground. Had a mare but didn’t cost us anything in the game and made an assist. Hmm sounds to me like you aren’t leaving yourself anywhere to go when he does cost us something and have no output to counterbalance it. Just saying!
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Post by baconburger on Aug 19, 2023 21:16:34 GMT
Had a mare today but ran himself into the ground. Seem to remember him having a similar mare when we beat Sunderland 1-5. Despite scoring Jack Clarke rinsed him just about every time 1 on 1. Maybe he should have more of them.
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Post by twobanksoffour on Aug 19, 2023 21:24:23 GMT
Had a mare today but ran himself into the ground. Seem to remember him having a similar mare when we beat Sunderland 1-5. Despite scoring Jack Clarke rinsed him just about every time 1 on 1. Maybe he should have more of them. Not his best game today but he's had far more good games than bad for us. By the way, is your brother signing for us then?
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Post by RF10 on Aug 19, 2023 21:56:47 GMT
It's a tough one for me as I like defenders to be defenders and his positioning at times is extremely poor. He drifted into the middle so many times today leaving a massive gap for their left side which they kept utilising.
His movement going forward is good and links up well with the attacking players.
Overall I think he probably adds more than its costs us.
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Post by spoton on Aug 19, 2023 21:59:35 GMT
Really poor defender shame because I do like him, very lightweight
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Post by emretezzy on Aug 19, 2023 22:05:54 GMT
Really poor defender shame because I do like him, very lightweight Wouldn't be playing in the Championship if he could attack like Hakhimi and defend like Lahm. With Mcnally behind him on the right who seems quick/big/strong enough to compensate for defensive shortfalls. His attacking threat in this league is worth the risk.
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Post by LphPotter on Aug 19, 2023 22:11:20 GMT
A bit counterintuitively given he’s an attacking player, I think he’s better in a back four than a back five for two reasons: 1) His starting position in a back five invites balls in behind him which he isn’t great at dealing with. 2) He’s great at playing little one-twos and overlaps and there’s more chance for him to do that with a wide forward directly in front of him. Agree completely, also today he was really the only man on the right for us. When we play 4-3-3 the right winger can come inside and create space for Hoever to move into, that’s when he’s at his best. But we need Pearson to be playing for the system to work properly.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Aug 19, 2023 22:11:54 GMT
As others have said he ain’t a wing back. TAA is shit as a wing back too, always better staring in a 4.
Give me him over any other RB in the league though
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 19, 2023 22:15:11 GMT
I don’t even think his crossing is that good. Way too many don’t do anything.
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Post by thischarmingmanc on Aug 19, 2023 22:19:31 GMT
I think he was targetted it as our weak link after our purple patch.
I think opposition management realsied he left gaping holes behind him and exploited it.
great going forward but positionally doesn't do his job.
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Post by emretezzy on Aug 19, 2023 22:21:46 GMT
I think he was targetted it as our weak link after our purple patch. I think opposition management realsied he left gaping holes behind him and exploited it. great going forward but positionally doesn't do his job. Makes 0 difference in a back three with Mcnally there on first viewing. If we play 4 at the back different story
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Post by musik on Aug 19, 2023 22:37:51 GMT
Maybe he should play right midfield or right winger then?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 19, 2023 23:19:01 GMT
Maybe he should play right midfield or right winger then? He's neither a full back or winger. He's a Pulis right midfielder the sort that nobody plays anymore.
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Post by shrewspotter on Aug 19, 2023 23:22:00 GMT
Well I like him, he's a baller alright, bit more defensive work though
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 19, 2023 23:23:31 GMT
I think he was targetted it as our weak link after our purple patch. I think opposition management realsied he left gaping holes behind him and exploited it. great going forward but positionally doesn't do his job. Exactly the same as Tymon
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Post by LGH87 on Aug 19, 2023 23:28:13 GMT
We thought he looked injured second half and that’s why he could neither commit himself fully forwards on the break and was struggling to reach 50/50’s.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 19, 2023 23:32:03 GMT
We thought he looked injured second half and that’s why he could neither commit himself fully forwards on the break and was struggling to reach 50/50’s. Well if that's the case it's the managers fault, you'd go 4411 at that point and put Wilmot at RB.
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Post by thepottypotter on Aug 20, 2023 3:02:53 GMT
So if he's a premier league quality player in attack he has to be in the side - it's just finding his best position as quickly as possible within the new team PL quality ish in attack. Conference in defence
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Post by thepottypotter on Aug 20, 2023 3:07:58 GMT
Really poor defender shame because I do like him, very lightweight Wouldn't be playing in the Championship if he could attack like Hakhimi and defend like Lahm. With Mcnally behind him on the right who seems quick/big/strong enough to compensate for defensive shortfalls. His attacking threat in this league is worth the risk. It’s a tactical conundrum. Against most lower/middle teams, yes I think he is worth the risk as he has very good attacking quality and they won’t expose him to the same extent. Against the best, most physical sides, if we don’t have an option of RB that can defend then today’s formation (5-3-2) makes sense. Otherwise they will target and farm goals from him. Watford tried it today but the whole Stoke team put in an excellent defensive shift.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Aug 20, 2023 5:37:52 GMT
We’ve seen he can play way better than he did today but I really like him at this level.
He’s better in a back 4 with a solid full-back like Stevens on the other side, Pearson regularly dropping into cover the space he leaves, and then a winger that makes inside runs to allow him the space to do thing bombing forward.
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Post by DC1863 on Aug 20, 2023 6:09:01 GMT
He's only 21, the defensive side of his game will improve with time. Has he ever played a full season of regular men's football?
As someone said above, remember Cuco Martina 🤢
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Post by theonlooker on Aug 20, 2023 6:50:02 GMT
He was fine against Rotherham as we played a very attacking system which suits his strengths. All today proves is that the formation doesn't really matter to certain players over the mentality.
Sit in, in a 532 or a 433 and players like Hoever will look shit. If you go out and attack a team regardless of shape then players like Hoever will look and perform better.
Because we sat deep and tried to frustrate Watford too many times he was forced to have duels deeper in the pitch and it doesn't suit him. Let the team and him loose a bit then you'll see a far different player.
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Post by LGH87 on Aug 20, 2023 7:13:21 GMT
We thought he looked injured second half and that’s why he could neither commit himself fully forwards on the break and was struggling to reach 50/50’s. Well if that's the case it's the managers fault, you'd go 4411 at that point and put Wilmot at RB. Exactly what we said.
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Post by trotter1980 on Aug 20, 2023 7:24:39 GMT
Agreed Dave, very little went right for him and got a bit exposed second half down his side.. to be fair to him, he was massively overloaded 3 on 1 at times.
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Post by thehoof on Aug 20, 2023 7:40:10 GMT
It's a tough one for me as I like defenders to be defenders and his positioning at times is extremely poor. He drifted into the middle so many times today leaving a massive gap for their left side which they kept utilising. His movement going forward is good and links up well with the attacking players. Overall I think he probably adds more than its costs us. I think we may have to go back to Andy Griffin / Erik Peters for the last time we had full backs who were better at defending than attacking - probably wrong?
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