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Post by Milkie on May 17, 2023 21:06:09 GMT
Were both in League 2 as we were relegated, since then we have not managed a top half finish while one of them will have been promoted 3 times, but what’s the fuss about …
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Post by nottsover60 on May 17, 2023 21:07:10 GMT
Interesting that neither have spent a penny on their grounds since.
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Post by hoppo96 on May 17, 2023 21:07:43 GMT
It's an absolute embarrassment from our perspective... and to think we whinge about FFP maybe try and get a top half finish before we do.
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Post by banksy1art on May 17, 2023 21:08:52 GMT
Times change. Will be completely different in 5 years
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Post by Milkie on May 17, 2023 21:13:37 GMT
Times change. Will be completely different in 5 years They do, but there can’t be many executive teams that have spent £80 million on players and a total of about £300 million in losses in the process. We are lucky that they can sustain it, however, if this doesn’t put a mirror to their performance nothing does |
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Post by banksy1art on May 17, 2023 21:15:33 GMT
Times change. Will be completely different in 5 years They do, but there can’t be many executive teams that have spent £80 million on players and a total of about £300 million in losses in the process. We are lucky that they can sustain it, however, if this doesn’t put a mirror to their performance nothing does if the recruitment team got it right, we would have been championship champions in 18/19. Then it’s a different story and they are the best owners in the world |
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Post by Marc01 on May 17, 2023 21:15:47 GMT
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Post by Milkie on May 17, 2023 21:21:07 GMT
They do, but there can’t be many executive teams that have spent £80 million on players and a total of about £300 million in losses in the process. We are lucky that they can sustain it, however, if this doesn’t put a mirror to their performance nothing does if the recruitment team got it right, we would have been championship champions in 18/19. Then it’s a different story and they are the best owners in the world Agreed, but they didn’t , they underestimated the malaise at the club, over estimated the footballing ability at the club, and gave a blank cheque to a team of transfer amateurs who contrived to produce the most predictable, lazy , signings who then set us back another 4 years so poor was their judgement. We would have been in a far better position, far sooner in doing nothing in the transfer market in that first season bar sorting out the club structure |
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Post by kidcrewbob on May 17, 2023 21:26:01 GMT
Belies the myth that we’ve not had the right windows, pre-season, time to gel, to make it “his” team and all the other bollocks excuses trotted out for our dismal half a decade…..
A decent manager can get results out of a squad of limited talent if he’s experienced or intelligent enough to play to strengths and motivate individuals to exceed expectation….
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Post by Milkie on May 17, 2023 21:27:55 GMT
Belies the myth that we’ve not had the right windows, pre-season, time to gel, to make it “his” team and all the other bollocks excuses trotted out for our dismal half a decade….. A decent manager can get results out of a squad of limited talent if he’s experienced or intelligent enough to play to strengths and motivate individuals to exceed expectation…. Statement of the day, and one that should be written above the board room door at SCFC |
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Post by retrostoke on May 17, 2023 21:29:00 GMT
And neither of them will stop up 2 years, let alone 10. Let’s get the current owners out now so we can get out of this division next year…. Into Division one.
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Post by block29cb on May 17, 2023 21:29:03 GMT
Good luck to them its either one of theirs time but Charlton, Forest, Leeds etc. similarly said the same about us. But we managed 10 years.
So far our story hasn't seen us drop down to the 4th division.
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Post by Marc01 on May 17, 2023 21:33:05 GMT
Both Luton and Coventry (play offs) promoted from 4th tier that 17/18 season when, as we were relegated from PL. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_EFL_League_TwoThe decision to sack Mark Huges after that game was a panic decision and the wrong time for me. The damage may have been done already though, with characters of Imbula and Berahino already on board. 2 wins, 7 defeats and 7 draws from the remaining 16 games. A bit like history repeating from 20 years prior in 97/98, our previous relegation. Then, the mid January sacking of Chic Bates (after a win) resulted in 3 wins and 11 defeats from the remaining 19 games. |
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Post by Milkie on May 17, 2023 21:35:53 GMT
And neither of them will stop up 2 years, let alone 10. Let’s get the current owners out now so we can get out of this division next year…. Into Division one. Why would we do that, as stated, I am grateful that they can sustain that level of loss, however, not to reflect, accept feedback and strive to improve their performance would be equally folly |
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Post by hoppo96 on May 17, 2023 21:40:24 GMT
They do, but there can’t be many executive teams that have spent £80 million on players and a total of about £300 million in losses in the process. We are lucky that they can sustain it, however, if this doesn’t put a mirror to their performance nothing does if the recruitment team got it right, we would have been championship champions in 18/19. Then it’s a different story and they are the best owners in the world If John Coates pulls his trousers down and shits in Hanley town centre, he'd be on the front page of the sentinel for this. But he hasn't. |
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Post by jeycov on May 17, 2023 21:40:57 GMT
And neither of them will stop up 2 years, let alone 10. Let’s get the current owners out now so we can get out of this division next year…. Into Division one. I recall similar comments re Stoke spending more than one season in the Premiership |
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Post by Gods on May 17, 2023 21:50:58 GMT
The last knockings for Mark Hughes. Good grief, I'd forgotten about those white dust sheets gummed on the back of our shirts, what on earth were we thinking? |
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Post by scfc75 on May 17, 2023 21:53:51 GMT
~35 years ago Luton and Coventry were both finishing in the top half of the top flight and winning the League Cup / FA Cup between them. We were pissing around in the 2nd tier, about to be relegated to the third.
In the future, we will be ahead of clubs we’re currently behind, and clubs currently behind us will be ahead of us.
It’s how football has worked since it began.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on May 17, 2023 21:57:03 GMT
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Post by Marc01 on May 17, 2023 21:58:50 GMT
~35 years ago Luton and Coventry were both finishing in the top half of the top flight and winning the League Cup / FA Cup between them. We were pissing around in the 2nd tier, about to be relegated to the third. In the future, we will be ahead of clubs we’re currently behind, and clubs currently behind us will be ahead of us. It’s how football has worked since it began. Yes, no doubt. It’s all about context of Stoke’s decline, despite availability of resource, compared to the resurgence of Luton and Coventry on minimal budget. Relatively, there was no such level of disparity 35 years ago; but football was far more sane financially back then. |
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Post by hoppo96 on May 18, 2023 8:04:16 GMT
~35 years ago Luton and Coventry were both finishing in the top half of the top flight and winning the League Cup / FA Cup between them. We were pissing around in the 2nd tier, about to be relegated to the third. In the future, we will be ahead of clubs we’re currently behind, and clubs currently behind us will be ahead of us. It’s how football has worked since it began. football is cyclical but our demise has been pretty much self-inflicted. We have far bigger financial resources than most and haven't even mustered a top half finish in five years back at this level. Maybe in the future we'll be top flight again, but not anytime soon. Accepting shite based on this premise is wrong, and lets the owners off the hook. |
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Post by LGH87 on May 18, 2023 8:42:25 GMT
~35 years ago Luton and Coventry were both finishing in the top half of the top flight and winning the League Cup / FA Cup between them. We were pissing around in the 2nd tier, about to be relegated to the third. In the future, we will be ahead of clubs we’re currently behind, and clubs currently behind us will be ahead of us. It’s how football has worked since it began. football is cyclical but our demise has been pretty much self-inflicted. We have far bigger financial resources than most and haven't even mustered a top half finish in five years back at this level. Maybe in the future we'll be top flight again, but not anytime soon. Accepting shite based on this premise is wrong, and lets the owners off the hook. The fact we've lost more games than we've won every season in this league speaks volumes. Yet the owners get such an easy ride, because they're local. It's depressing. |
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Post by nottsover60 on May 18, 2023 8:52:26 GMT
Both were built from the depths whereas we have managed to stop the slide before we plummeted the depths but therefore have got to rebuild from a relatively lofty situation so our rebuild cannot be as gradual as theirs. It is asking a lot to rebuild a team and get promoted from the Championship all in one season. It takes time to build trust in your manager and teammates and to create a club identity which new players to the squad can clearly see and buy into. Robbins and Jones built Coventry and Luton from the bottom with no outside pressure or expectancy.
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Post by Davef on May 18, 2023 9:03:46 GMT
Just console yourself with the fact that regardless of how many times clubs move up and down the leagues and have fluctuating fortunes, the Vale will always be a sorry sack of shite.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 18, 2023 9:09:24 GMT
Luton and Coventry have been building a squad for five years with a year on year increase in budget and a degree of control over who they could move on. Over the same period we seen our budget reduce year on year and have had no choice but get rid of players and bring in less talented players we could afford. We've been dismantling a squad over the period Luton and Coventry have been building one.
There's also the issue of momentum and the atmosphere it creates. Luton and Coventry have been on the up which creates a positive vibe that transits to the players and improves performance. We have been on a downward trajectory and the atmosphere around the club is negative and sometimes hostile - not a good backdrop for getting good performances. And before someone harps on about me blaming the fans I'm not, the negativity is in the air and everyone feels it - it's just there.
Clubs go through cycles and those cycles can last year's and even decades. Coventry and Luton are on an upward cycle while we have been on the downward part of a cycle. Hopefully we've hit the bottom of the cycle and next season marks the beginning of the upward phase.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on May 18, 2023 9:37:20 GMT
Luton and Coventry have been building a squad for five years with a year on year increase in budget and a degree of control over who they could move on. Over the same period we seen our budget reduce year on year and have had no choice but get rid of players and bring in less talented players we could afford. We've been dismantling a squad over the period Luton and Coventry have been building one. There's also the issue of momentum and the atmosphere it creates. Luton and Coventry have been on the up which creates a positive vibe that transits to the players and improves performance. We have been on a downward trajectory and the atmosphere around the club is negative and sometimes hostile - not a good backdrop for getting good performances. And before someone harps on about me blaming the fans I'm not, the negativity is in the air and everyone feels it - it's just there. Clubs go through cycles and those cycles can last year's and even decades. Coventry and Luton are on an upward cycle while we have been on the downward part of a cycle. Hopefully we've hit the bottom of the cycle and next season marks the beginning of the upward phase. Im sorry but that doesn’t Wash at all Hughes was fired in a panic notably because for the first time at coventry the noise turned on scholes and Cartwright personally , what’s followed has been a abject failure by all charged with executive responsibility ,Scholes , Lambert , Rowett , Cartwright , O’Neil , Neil ,Martin , they have had infinitely more Resource, better facilities and bigger squads and yet have overseen systematic , prolonged regression , establishing a culture of failure and laying the blame at FFP . The core architect of that failure and culture was scholes and his deluded attempt at control , but those that followed have had the best possibly backing to turn it round and failed . Today woukld be a good day to realise it remove neil and his goons before we become the second coming of Preston probably the only club in the championship less relevant than us and start again giving this bloke any war chest is sheer madness . Momentum or trajectory is important but solvable otherwise Luton and coventry would be playing Leek town next season not Liverpool while Alex plods us on the Rotherham |
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Post by spitthedog on May 18, 2023 9:45:32 GMT
It's an absolute embarrassment from our perspective... and to think we whinge about FFP maybe try and get a top half finish before we do. so also an absolute embarrassment for several other clubs too then. I say well done to them. |
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Post by hoppo96 on May 18, 2023 9:55:26 GMT
football is cyclical but our demise has been pretty much self-inflicted. We have far bigger financial resources than most and haven't even mustered a top half finish in five years back at this level. Maybe in the future we'll be top flight again, but not anytime soon. Accepting shite based on this premise is wrong, and lets the owners off the hook. The fact we've lost more games than we've won every season in this league speaks volumes. Yet the owners get such an easy ride, because they're local. It's depressing. I understand them getting praise for the money they've put in, the premier league football, fa cup final and europe, Bet365' jobs in the city but I don't know how anyone can look at the state of the club over the past 6 years or so and think we're well run and there's nothing to worry about. Even the skint icelandics managed to get us three 13th+ finishes in a row! |
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Post by hoppo96 on May 18, 2023 9:57:45 GMT
It's an absolute embarrassment from our perspective... and to think we whinge about FFP maybe try and get a top half finish before we do. so also an absolute embarrassment for several other clubs too then. I say well done to them. Maybe other clubs are embarrassed too but I only care about Stoke. I don't see why the Coates bothered spending all that money on us if we're seemingly happy with mere existence. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 18, 2023 10:12:18 GMT
Luton and Coventry have been building a squad for five years with a year on year increase in budget and a degree of control over who they could move on. Over the same period we seen our budget reduce year on year and have had no choice but get rid of players and bring in less talented players we could afford. We've been dismantling a squad over the period Luton and Coventry have been building one. There's also the issue of momentum and the atmosphere it creates. Luton and Coventry have been on the up which creates a positive vibe that transits to the players and improves performance. We have been on a downward trajectory and the atmosphere around the club is negative and sometimes hostile - not a good backdrop for getting good performances. And before someone harps on about me blaming the fans I'm not, the negativity is in the air and everyone feels it - it's just there. Clubs go through cycles and those cycles can last year's and even decades. Coventry and Luton are on an upward cycle while we have been on the downward part of a cycle. Hopefully we've hit the bottom of the cycle and next season marks the beginning of the upward phase. Im sorry but that doesn’t Wash at all Hughes was fired in a panic notably because for the first time at coventry the noise turned on scholes and Cartwright personally , what’s followed has been a abject failure by all charged with executive responsibility ,Scholes , Lambert , Rowett , Cartwright , O’Neil , Neil ,Martin , they have had infinitely more Resource, better facilities and bigger squads and yet have overseen systematic , prolonged regression , establishing a culture of failure and laying the blame at FFP . The core architect of that failure and culture was scholes and his deluded attempt at control , but those that followed have had the best possibly backing to turn it round and failed . Today woukld be a good day to realise it remove neil and his goons before we become the second coming of Preston probably the only club in the championship less relevant than us and start again giving this bloke any war chest is sheer madness . Momentum or trajectory is important but solvable otherwise Luton and coventry would be playing Leek town next season not Liverpool while Alex plods us on the Rotherham The OP is about the last five years not what went on before. FFP isn't an excuse - it's real. It's doesn't matter that we have some of the richest owners in the league and the best facilities - we had to sell and the players we have brought in are worse because they are all we could afford. Luton and Coventry and have been squads, we've been dismantling out of necessity, not choice. Luton and Coventry have both been on downward trajectories but the fact remains they have been on the up for the last five years while we have been on the down. Yes they turned it round and so can we - the issue is the timing of the cycles are different. |
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