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Post by theonlooker on Apr 29, 2023 19:38:15 GMT
I'm still at a loss as to why he keeps reaching for the back 5. It's the same system he turned to at Preston, where he played a box to box central midfielder, Alan Browne, as a wing back whilst being happily on his way to getting the sack.
It's failed him before so he clearly doesn't know how to coach it. Yes it worked at Sunderland but christ, any old idiot that wasn't the vastly overrated Lee Johnson could have got that squad promoted and Neil himself needed the play offs!
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Post by GeneralFaye on Apr 29, 2023 19:39:39 GMT
"Beginning"... like, how much more evidence do you need? apart from 4/5 weeks we've been an embarrassment all season.
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Post by dwr17477 on Apr 29, 2023 19:40:43 GMT
He seemed to be getting everyone on board up until half time v Bristol City. FFS, even I was beginning to think we'd turned a corner. That half time talk and anything thereafter has just been utterly dreadful - were they on some kind of March bonus?
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 29, 2023 19:42:58 GMT
The option is backing him or ripping it all up and starting again. The latter option on the face seems the better one as things stand. But it’s not going to happen and he does need a full season really I guess. But he left tomorrow who would care? He has almost a full season this season and can you honestly say you have seen any sustained improvement? If we seemed to be heading in the right direction but just not having the right personnel I could see some justification for keeping him but today's effort was just as turgid as any of MON's as were the last four home performances. We still have no idea how to beat these teams and I specifically watched today when we were passing backwards and sideways what movement there was ahead of the defence and there was none. They all just stood there waiting to see what was going to happen. There seemed to be no understanding of where or how to move. Ainsworth has been at QPR for a few weeks yet without being brilliant their players seemed to know exactly where and when to move and pass on the few occasions they attacked. Neil's perpetual comments of needing and being better when we have a big centre forward to get flick ons fills me with dread for next season. I can just see another Vokes coming in to stand like a lamppost waiting for long balls to be aimed at him. No thank you. We are ripping up the squad anyway this summer, please let it be some other manager.
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Post by bingbang on Apr 29, 2023 19:43:18 GMT
Let him go now, we have money to spend get potter in at all costs, he would be up for a new project.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 29, 2023 19:43:55 GMT
I'm still at a loss as to why he keeps reaching for the back 5. It's the same system he turned to at Preston, where he played a box to box central midfielder, Alan Browne, as a wing back whilst being happily on his way to getting the sack. It's failed him before so he clearly doesn't know how to coach it. Yes it worked at Sunderland but christ, any old idiot that wasn't the vastly overrated Lee Johnson could have got that squad promoted and Neil himself needed the play offs! Why do we keep getting idiot managers who try they same thing as the bloke before and then act all surprised when it doesn’t work again? Really fucks me off. And is the main reason why I don’t think professional managers are all they’re cracked up to be.
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Post by loosestools on Apr 29, 2023 19:44:31 GMT
Neil ios full of shit. Talks the talk but has certainly proved he cannot walk the walk.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 29, 2023 19:46:40 GMT
After the last 4 home performances🤔 Our tactic seems to be to launch it diagonally to either wing back and hope for the best. The summer will be massive and I’d personally get rid of the majority of players and start from scratch I really have no problem using the diagonal ball to change up the play when we have the right personnel. It can be very effective. However, it usually needs someone bigger than Gayle and stronger/more aggressive than Campbell to make the most of the subsequent cross into the box. AN is supposed to be some master tactician. When has he turned a game on its head with some creative change up this season?
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 29, 2023 19:47:25 GMT
Let him go now, we have money to spend get potter in at all costs, he would be up for a new project. Unfortunately I think Potter will have better offers. That boat sailed five years ago when we twice had him asking for the job but decided to go with Lambert and Rowett. I would much rather spend more money on having him as manager and less on players this summer but can't see it happening.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 29, 2023 19:48:21 GMT
He certainly has underperformed but I really believe there is a culture problem from the previous regime and possibly players playing who have already been told to find another club. Now I’m not one to keep changing managers as in all walks of like it can take time to change a culture within a team and sometimes longer than you think. I have lots of personal experience in this field. Sometimes I’ve been able to change things in weeks and sometimes it’s been a year or more. I don’t think it’s a stretch to apply the same logic to a football team. So for me he gets 10-15 games next season then review it The poor performing culture where we finished higher, got more points, developed players to sell and where the players generally liked the manager? O'Neil was an excellent manager for us when the biggest priority was survival and improve to our FFP position. This window is a behemoth, we've as close to a restart of a football squad as you could get, but it's more change than you'd ideally like. If Neil gets this window (I feel he should get the window, the purple patch football was as dominant as I can remember us having in my lifetime), we need to give him 2-3 years to deliver. The risk is he's going to encourage the board to have more short termism, such is his conviction he can correct this. Which if the gets it wrong probably knocks us back 3 years. “we need to give him 2-3 years to deliver.” Why? It’s a results business. If he doesn’t look like he’s going to be the person to deliver them, we should sod him off.
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Post by TinkerT on Apr 29, 2023 19:49:54 GMT
He talks more shit than mad nath. In fact, I think I'd rather have mad nath over him.
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Post by loosestools on Apr 29, 2023 20:02:57 GMT
He talks more shit than mad nath. In fact, I think I'd rather have mad nath over him. Steady on mate.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 29, 2023 20:11:38 GMT
The folly of the Martin appointment is becoming clearer he's clearly now close to JC and that's huge protection for Neil
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Post by silsdenstokie on Apr 29, 2023 20:24:18 GMT
Massively underwhelmed
4 home defeats on the trot is a sackable offence
The month of March will keep him in a job but Im not confident for next season
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Post by jebbstuart on Apr 29, 2023 20:27:22 GMT
This club is in need of change from top to bottom, Neil just release at the end of game next week can get a wheelbarrow and carry out most of the players with it, we are in a shocking mess. We have made zero progress and unless we get a magician we will get worse. I don't see a solution while JC is in charge upstairs we just attract shit and unless someone takes the reigns with a clear vision we are going to bum around in this division or fall even lower with these clowns in charge.
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Post by march4 on Apr 29, 2023 20:56:06 GMT
I’ve said from the start AN is the man to lead us back to the Prem next season. I’ve seen nothing from these dead rubbers to deflect that opinion.
Our away record is that of a team challenging for promotion. That purple patch made us the best team in the division for a fleetingly short period. AN has turned around Preston and Sunderland. Even after he had left, they have continued to succeed - always the sign of a successful leader. AN has already led a team to promotion from this division. His January transfer dealings suggest he is a good judge of players and will improve things over the summer.
I’ve been wrong many times before but I have an unshakable confidence in this guy. Time will tell. Let’s hope I’m right for once.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Apr 29, 2023 21:01:08 GMT
I’m 50/50 with him after today.
Those big wins gave me hope that he knew how to build a team and get them firing however the last few games have drained the hope again as he doesn’t seem to know how to change things when they’re not working.
In his defence he did lose players in and some appeared to down tools which really didn’t help.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 29, 2023 21:02:17 GMT
39 league games and one transfer window for that utter shite today, Neil is getting away scot free at the moment……………..
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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 29, 2023 22:11:06 GMT
I will give him one major thing.
We had a disaster of a pre-season under O'Neill. I don't pretend to be an expert in Sport Science, conditioning, fitness etc, but our players were unfit. We were plagued by injuries in a way that simply couldn't have been a coincidence. Even Brown succumbed.
Our little purple patch came off the back of the manager doing warm weather conditioning work and rebuilding fitness levels, but we've been unable to sustain the same level of energy since.
A good pre-season may put us in a much better position for the year ahead.
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Post by Olgrligm on Apr 29, 2023 22:13:20 GMT
I'm still at a loss as to why he keeps reaching for the back 5. It's the same system he turned to at Preston, where he played a box to box central midfielder, Alan Browne, as a wing back whilst being happily on his way to getting the sack. It's failed him before so he clearly doesn't know how to coach it. Yes it worked at Sunderland but christ, any old idiot that wasn't the vastly overrated Lee Johnson could have got that squad promoted and Neil himself needed the play offs! Don't underestimate the impact of losing Wilmot and Brown. Both are critical to our success in his preferred 4-3-3. That said, I couldn't see any harm in changing it today when we were losing. I assumed that was what the Hoever sub was about, but Sterling moving inside was bizarre. Spare a thought for Connor Taylor.
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Post by mirps91 on Apr 29, 2023 22:16:54 GMT
I'm still at a loss as to why he keeps reaching for the back 5. It's the same system he turned to at Preston, where he played a box to box central midfielder, Alan Browne, as a wing back whilst being happily on his way to getting the sack. They're in it for the 💰 🤑 💸 It's failed him before so he clearly doesn't know how to coach it. Yes it worked at Sunderland but christ, any old idiot that wasn't the vastly overrated Lee Johnson could have got that squad promoted and Neil himself needed the play offs! Why do we keep getting idiot managers who try they same thing as the bloke before and then act all surprised when it doesn’t work again? Really fucks me off. And is the main reason why I don’t think professional managers are all they’re cracked up to be.
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Post by mirps91 on Apr 29, 2023 22:18:35 GMT
Why do we keep getting idiot managers who try they same thing as the bloke before and then act all surprised when it doesn’t work again? Really fucks me off. And is the main reason why I don’t think professional managers are all they’re cracked up to be. Delete
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Post by potterpaul on Apr 29, 2023 23:12:32 GMT
As soon as March started to champion his name was the beginning of my doubts.
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Post by stokesaint1 on Apr 29, 2023 23:23:43 GMT
March, whatever it is that you're smoking, can you get me an ounce?
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Post by march4 on Apr 30, 2023 0:01:47 GMT
March, whatever it is that you're smoking, can you get me an ounce? Matron deals with all of my medication.
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Post by fraybentos on Apr 30, 2023 4:57:41 GMT
The main problem I see now is, if we bring in a ruck of players during the summer, they will take months to gel together as a team. My guess is around November, would he get the patience of the home crowd of losing to say Ipswich and Plymouth at home if we got them at the beginning of next season.
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Post by figo85 on Apr 30, 2023 5:14:35 GMT
Why are we so obsessed with getting rid of managers every 6 months or so. We’re getting a bad as Watford.
Sacked Rowett, gets Millwall to the brink of the playoffs.
Sacked Jones, goes on to get Luton firing (yes Southampton was a shit show).
Our “squad” Is awful, any manager would struggle to get a tune out of them.
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Post by potters11 on Apr 30, 2023 5:43:50 GMT
Why are we so obsessed with getting rid of managers every 6 months or so. We’re getting a bad as Watford. Sacked Rowett, gets Millwall to the brink of the playoffs. Sacked Jones, goes on to get Luton firing (yes Southampton was a shit show). Our “squad” Is awful, any manager would struggle to get a tune out of them. I don’t think you’ll find many Stoke fans arguing we should have kept Rowett or Jones at the time. Neither have been a roaring success since they left Stoke in my view. If the manager isn’t right you need to change you just can’t keep with a manager to avoid becoming like Watford. For the record I was torn on Alex Neil until the March purple patch and yes it’s been dreadful since but he showed enough to me in that period to suggest he’s the man to undertake the summer rebuild. Saying that with how football is in 2023 he’d have no argument if he was told to leave following the Watford match.
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Post by telfordstokie on Apr 30, 2023 5:46:32 GMT
Why are we so obsessed with getting rid of managers every 6 months or so. We’re getting a bad as Watford. Sacked Rowett, gets Millwall to the brink of the playoffs. Sacked Jones, goes on to get Luton firing (yes Southampton was a shit show). Our “squad” Is awful, any manager would struggle to get a tune out of them. Rowett you could maybe argue with the benefit of hindsight we should have kept longer but was a fair decision really given the backing he had, how we were playing and him basically going to war with the fans. Jones was given far longer than he should have had, same with MON. Neil has been given pretty much a free pass for this season. Compared with most Champ clubs, I think we’re pretty slow to make sackings. On balance, I’d keep Neil but its not exactly unreasonable for people to ask if he’s the right man to lead the rebuild given how we’ve played for 80% of the time under him.
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Post by victoria on Apr 30, 2023 5:52:42 GMT
We need players that have steel and quality. Both attributes. The coates family want the academy to be a success. We need younger players to build a squad that will play together for a few years. I dont see us being any better than midtable next season. We need the right squad. With the necessary skills and eagerness to do their best. I hope that neal can put together a competitive squad. Quite a task. Finishing 16th this season and seeing the inabilities and skills of our players is to me lower championship ability. That who we are, sadly, nowadays
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