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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 29, 2023 12:09:16 GMT
In that case probably best to call him a RWF rather than a RWB otherwise he could get done for failing to live up to his job description. Only by someone who has a very dated view of the game seems he was bought on to be in the same mould as TAA another player I doubt you have any understandig of. I absolutely get TAA. When it works 4 at the back with attacking fullbacks is very effective but it's incredibly demanding - the player has to be good going forward but they also have to be good at their primary job of defending. It sounds like Hoever was being developed to play that role but Liverpool decided he wasn't up to it - and if he's said what you claimed (that he's bored by defending) it's really no surprise. TAA has had lots of justifiable criticism from all quarters this season because of his failure to defend well. The modern game hasn't suddenly decided that defenders don't have to defend. The expectation to attack is an add on to their primary responsibility, not a swap in duties. Hoever may well turn out to be a good addition to the squad but if he ends up playing RB or RWB I'm not going to turn a blind eye to any defensive deficiencies because defenders defending isn't considered "modern".
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Post by clarkeda on Jan 29, 2023 12:09:28 GMT
He also wasn't very good just very enthusiastic. I refuse to believe anyone has paid circa £13M for anyone with inferior technical ability to Clarke. I think he was bought for £9M, rising to £13M (which he clearly hasn't come anywhere near). What I'd like to know is why Wolves thought £9M was a justifiable fee to pay for someone who had played only a handful of cup games for Liverpool. Very much shades of Kevin Wimmer there! Fair to say that PSV have also had their pants pulled down on this, as they have loaned a player that they now have to pay to loan onto us! Sounds like the sort of thing that would've happened to us in recent years! I know all players should be given a chance, but everything about this deal smacks of rolling the dice on someone who isn't taking his profession seriously and I'm not impressed when there are other areas of the squad like CDM and target man that need addressing. I'd like to see Hoever start today against Stevenage, as he has cup game experience and against Stevenage, it's a game to show what he can do to prove he's worth a go in the league. We needed a RB/RWB unless your happy watching wilmot and brown attempting to play there
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 29, 2023 12:26:30 GMT
Only by someone who has a very dated view of the game seems he was bought on to be in the same mould as TAA another player I doubt you have any understandig of. I absolutely get TAA. When it works 4 at the back with attacking fullbacks is very effective but it's incredibly demanding - the player has to be good going forward but they also have to be good at their primary job of defending. It sounds like Hoever was being developed to play that role but Liverpool decided he wasn't up to it - and if he's said what you claimed (that he's bored by defending) it's really no surprise. TAA has had lots of justifiable criticism from all quarters this season because of his failure to defend well. The modern game hasn't suddenly decided that defenders don't have to defend. The expectation to attack is an add on to their primary responsibility, not a swap in duties. Hoever may well turn out to be a good addition to the squad but if he ends up playing RB or RWB I'm not going to turn a blind eye to any defensive deficiencies because defenders defending isn't considered "modern". It's just absolute shite. You can't be an attacking full back or a wing back without getting caught upfield and it costing your team on occasions. It's a trade off and you'll always be critical if you think their primary job is defending. You obviously don't get TAA at all if you think he's primarily a defensive player.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 29, 2023 13:06:04 GMT
I absolutely get TAA. When it works 4 at the back with attacking fullbacks is very effective but it's incredibly demanding - the player has to be good going forward but they also have to be good at their primary job of defending. It sounds like Hoever was being developed to play that role but Liverpool decided he wasn't up to it - and if he's said what you claimed (that he's bored by defending) it's really no surprise. TAA has had lots of justifiable criticism from all quarters this season because of his failure to defend well. The modern game hasn't suddenly decided that defenders don't have to defend. The expectation to attack is an add on to their primary responsibility, not a swap in duties. Hoever may well turn out to be a good addition to the squad but if he ends up playing RB or RWB I'm not going to turn a blind eye to any defensive deficiencies because defenders defending isn't considered "modern". It's just absolute shite. You can't be an attacking full back or a wing back without getting caught upfield and it costing your team on occasions. It's a trade off and you'll always be critical if you think their primary job is defending. You obviously don't get TAA at all if you think he's primarily a defensive player. TAA has played an instrumental role in Liverpool’s terrible defence this year. It’s not just that he’s caught up field a lot. That’s actually a failing on the central midfielder who should fill the gap. TAA is terrible at sensing danger and he’s terrible at tackling. I agree, right wing backs should be a mix of both. However, poor defending is just as much a problem as poor attacking.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 29, 2023 13:21:06 GMT
It's just absolute shite. You can't be an attacking full back or a wing back without getting caught upfield and it costing your team on occasions. It's a trade off and you'll always be critical if you think their primary job is defending. You obviously don't get TAA at all if you think he's primarily a defensive player. TAA has played an instrumental role in Liverpool’s terrible defence this year. It’s not just that he’s caught up field a lot. That’s actually a failing on the central midfielder who should fill the gap. TAA is terrible at sensing danger and he’s terrible at tackling. I agree, right wing backs should be a mix of both. However, poor defending is just as much a problem as poor attacking. Sounds like someone who thinks they can have their cake and eat it. These are trade offs and judgement calls a manager/coach has to make when selecting a team and gameplan. Most coaches are risk adverse so the think poor defending is much more of a problem than poor attacking. That's why I don't like the majority of manager/coaches.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 29, 2023 13:44:30 GMT
TAA has played an instrumental role in Liverpool’s terrible defence this year. It’s not just that he’s caught up field a lot. That’s actually a failing on the central midfielder who should fill the gap. TAA is terrible at sensing danger and he’s terrible at tackling. I agree, right wing backs should be a mix of both. However, poor defending is just as much a problem as poor attacking. Sounds like someone who thinks they can have their cake and eat it. These are trade offs and judgement calls a manager/coach has to make when selecting a team and gameplan. Most coaches are risk adverse so the think poor defending is much more of a problem than poor attacking. That's why I don't like the majority of manager/coaches. It's why your not a manager/coach more like. Any manager/coach who turns a blind eye to his defenders not being very good at defending isn't going to be in the game very long - their team will get ripped to shreds. The idea that the modern game is all about attacking and defending is old hat is just nonsense.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jan 29, 2023 17:27:27 GMT
I hope Hoever learns to suck defenders in.
Seems like one of those players who could blow hot and cold.
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Post by shakermaker on Jan 29, 2023 18:45:26 GMT
I think he was bought for £9M, rising to £13M (which he clearly hasn't come anywhere near). What I'd like to know is why Wolves thought £9M was a justifiable fee to pay for someone who had played only a handful of cup games for Liverpool. Very much shades of Kevin Wimmer there! Fair to say that PSV have also had their pants pulled down on this, as they have loaned a player that they now have to pay to loan onto us! Sounds like the sort of thing that would've happened to us in recent years! I know all players should be given a chance, but everything about this deal smacks of rolling the dice on someone who isn't taking his profession seriously and I'm not impressed when there are other areas of the squad like CDM and target man that need addressing. I'd like to see Hoever start today against Stevenage, as he has cup game experience and against Stevenage, it's a game to show what he can do to prove he's worth a go in the league. We needed a RB/RWB unless your happy watching wilmot and brown attempting to play there I want a RB/RWB who's good. Djed Spence on loan would have been far more palatable than a wayward misfit who nobody wants.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Jan 29, 2023 18:50:24 GMT
He literally had 10 mins or so.
But you know when you watch a player and think, hmmm not sure about this one.
The way he moves about doesn’t seem very footballer esque.
Very harsh for 10 mins I know. But not convinced.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 29, 2023 19:00:55 GMT
He literally had 10 mins or so. But you know when you watch a player and think, hmmm not sure about this one. The way he moves about doesn’t seem very footballer esque. Very harsh for 10 mins I know. But not convinced. 100% agree he was way off bit to be fair ceouba looks a proper flair player
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Post by Batfink on Jan 29, 2023 19:03:47 GMT
We needed a RB/RWB unless your happy watching wilmot and brown attempting to play there I want a RB/RWB who's good. Djed Spence on loan would have been far more palatable than a wayward misfit who nobody wants. Have you not literally described Spence when Forest signed him? Let’s wait and see shall we?
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 29, 2023 19:14:14 GMT
Sounds like someone who thinks they can have their cake and eat it. These are trade offs and judgement calls a manager/coach has to make when selecting a team and gameplan. Most coaches are risk adverse so the think poor defending is much more of a problem than poor attacking. That's why I don't like the majority of manager/coaches. It's why your not a manager/coach more like. Any manager/coach who turns a blind eye to his defenders not being very good at defending isn't going to be in the game very long - their team will get ripped to shreds. The idea that the modern game is all about attacking and defending is old hat is just nonsense. The only time they are okay with it is when the good far outweighs the bad. TAA was phenomenal going forward for a while. This season, he’s been much worse and has still been crap defensively.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 29, 2023 19:18:53 GMT
Bless him, it was like watching an excited child play in their first game.
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Post by staffordstokiemad1 on Jan 29, 2023 19:22:24 GMT
He had 10 minutes or so, he tried to take on the left back a few times but his touch was heavy, maybe just rusty. I did think Sterling had a poor game and he looks like he is running/walking in slow motion, again I hope he is just rusty. Hopefully one of the two finds some form with minutes under the belt.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jan 29, 2023 19:37:36 GMT
He certainly looks more of a defender than an attacker. First game and probably quite a way off match fitness, though. We’ll see.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jan 29, 2023 19:38:21 GMT
It's why your not a manager/coach more like. Any manager/coach who turns a blind eye to his defenders not being very good at defending isn't going to be in the game very long - their team will get ripped to shreds. The idea that the modern game is all about attacking and defending is old hat is just nonsense. The only time they are okay with it is when the good far outweighs the bad. TAA was phenomenal going forward for a while. This season, he’s been much worse and has still been crap defensively. He's playing in a team that isn't functioning as well and in a bit of a transition. Klopp will either get his team functioning as well as before or he won't but I'm pretty sure he won't become a defensive coach because he's scared of being sacked. He'll either succeed of fail doing what he believes in. Stoke fans are obsessed with defence.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 29, 2023 19:38:59 GMT
Arnold gets totally unnecessary criticism. In their title winning season he provided the most assists in a season and is a terrific footballer. He’s now being asked to change his approach by the manager and looks lost. He’s not a good defender but he didn’t need to be under Klopps “heavy metal football”. Now it’s all gone tits up for Klopp he’s a major scapegoat for the decline in the team. TBH I think he should leave, he’d be mint in La Liga or similar. Jury out on Hoever, hope he does well
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Post by Jimm on Jan 29, 2023 19:40:00 GMT
10 minute cameo and it's already been decided he's wank... Lol standard
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Jan 29, 2023 19:43:05 GMT
He literally had 10 mins or so. But you know when you watch a player and think, hmmm not sure about this one. The way he moves about doesn’t seem very footballer esque. Very harsh for 10 mins I know. But not convinced. My thoughts exactly!!!
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 29, 2023 19:58:36 GMT
He certainly looks more of a defender than an attacker. First game and probably quite a way off match fitness, though. We’ll see. His defending on the corner at the end was straight out of the John Inman book of no nonsense hard men he was bouncing around like a excited puppy it was truly diabolical I’m really not sure what we think we’ve seen here right back an issue at the minute if we can’t get Sterling fitter than he was today
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Post by stokest5 on Jan 29, 2023 20:27:11 GMT
He certainly looks more of a defender than an attacker. First game and probably quite a way off match fitness, though. We’ll see. His defending on the corner at the end was straight out of the John Inman book of no nonsense hard men he was bouncing around like a excited puppy it was truly diabolical I’m really not sure what we think we’ve seen here right back an issue at the minute if we can’t get Sterling fitter than he was today I know he’s had injuries but I’m yet to be won over by Sterling. I think he looks clumsy. You tube told me different 😆
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Post by LphPotter on Jan 29, 2023 20:49:41 GMT
He literally had 10 mins or so. But you know when you watch a player and think, hmmm not sure about this one. The way he moves about doesn’t seem very footballer esque. Very harsh for 10 mins I know. But not convinced. This message board never fails. 10 minutes and he’s not a footballer, amazing
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 29, 2023 20:52:24 GMT
His defending on the corner at the end was straight out of the John Inman book of no nonsense hard men he was bouncing around like a excited puppy it was truly diabolical I’m really not sure what we think we’ve seen here right back an issue at the minute if we can’t get Sterling fitter than he was today I know he’s had injuries but I’m yet to be won over by Sterling. I think he looks clumsy. You tube told me different 😆 He was knackered today for sure , the Laurent goal celebration was too much for him to run too and the side netting shot they had just after was because he was knackered right decision to sub him he was a punch drunk boxer by then
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Post by tejstokie on Jan 29, 2023 22:30:19 GMT
He looks really unfit and lost. Lets see how he does in a full 90 in the league.
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Post by shakermaker on Jan 29, 2023 22:31:36 GMT
I want a RB/RWB who's good. Djed Spence on loan would have been far more palatable than a wayward misfit who nobody wants. Have you not literally described Spence when Forest signed him? Let’s wait and see shall we? Spence was still a first team regular at Boro before joining Forest. He just didn’t suit Warnock’s outdated style of football. A modern, forward thinking manager like Cooper turned him into a £20M player overnight. Three top flight clubs have decided Hoever is a waste of space and barely given him any time on the pitch. Spence would have been an amazing loan, and he’s available too!
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Post by theonlooker on Jan 29, 2023 22:52:51 GMT
Just needs a few games under his belt. Anyone who has played at any level would have spotted the timing issues today. Mistimed jumps, mistimed dribbles etc.
He's just a bit rusty. Will be interesting to see how he gets on over the weeks and months to come.
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Post by Linx on Jan 29, 2023 23:58:01 GMT
He literally had 10 mins or so. But you know when you watch a player and think, hmmm not sure about this one. The way he moves about doesn’t seem very footballer esque. Very harsh for 10 mins I know. But not convinced. Plenty of Wolves fans have seen a lot more of him and weren’t convinced either. Has a really bad rep for his attitude and is a poor trainer, apparently. Does our dressing room need him just now? Sounds to me like the sort of player who, back in the day, would fail TP’s DNA test.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 30, 2023 8:44:46 GMT
Just needs a few games under his belt. Anyone who has played at any level would have spotted the timing issues today. Mistimed jumps, mistimed dribbles etc. He's just a bit rusty. Will be interesting to see how he gets on over the weeks and months to come. Agreed. He hasn't played first team football since mid November - and it showed yesterday! The time to judge him is when he has got some more first team games or part games under his belt and a lot of training with the players he will be playing alongside in first team games. The jury is still very much out in my opinion. It is a loan and so it is a risk worth taking for us.
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Post by lordb on Jan 30, 2023 8:50:28 GMT
Just needs a few games under his belt. Anyone who has played at any level would have spotted the timing issues today. Mistimed jumps, mistimed dribbles etc. He's just a bit rusty. Will be interesting to see how he gets on over the weeks and months to come. Agreed. He hasn't played first team football since mid November - and it showed yesterday! The time to judge him is when he has got some more first team games or part games under his belt and a lot of training with the players he will be playing alongside in first team games. The jury is still very much out in my opinion. It is a loan and so it is a risk worth taking for us. so he needs game to get up to speed play him in the reserves then oh there is no reserve team football & they rarely arrange friendlies so the only way for him to get up to speed is play in the first team before he's anywhere near ready we saw this with Sterling yesterday who had by far his worst game but clearly nowhere near ready
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Post by wilcopotter on Jan 30, 2023 8:55:50 GMT
Agreed. He hasn't played first team football since mid November - and it showed yesterday! The time to judge him is when he has got some more first team games or part games under his belt and a lot of training with the players he will be playing alongside in first team games. The jury is still very much out in my opinion. It is a loan and so it is a risk worth taking for us. so he needs game to get up to speed play him in the reserves then oh there is no reserve team football & they rarely arrange friendlies so the only way for him to get up to speed is play in the first team before he's anywhere near ready we saw this with Sterling yesterday who had by far his worst game but clearly nowhere near ready Should be up to speed just as his loan ends then😉
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