Would a DI box do?

[musik]

A question regarding multitrack recording.

I have access to a small digital multitracker but there's only 2 line inputs. The other 6 inputs are for mics.

Now I want to transfer 4 analog tracks from an analog 4 tracker to this digital one.

Is there any DI box out there on the market to adjust the line level signals from the analog outputs 3 and 4 to the (dynamic) mic inputs 3 and 4 on the digital multitracker?

[marylandstoke]

Jan 7, 2023 13:38:22 GMT musik said:

A question regarding multitrack recording.

I have access to a small digital multitracker but there's only 2 line inputs. The other 6 inputs are for mics.

Now I want to transfer 4 analog tracks from an analog 4 tracker to this digital one.

Is there any DI box out there on the market to adjust the line level signals from the analog outputs 3 and 4 to the (dynamic) mic inputs 3 and 4 on the digital multitracker?

For what a really good d.i will cost you may as well get a little 4 or 8 track mixer.

Easier for routing. Mic/line input and any 48v you may need in future.

Cheap as chips at present.

A ‘friend’ pointed out that Sweetwater do a lot of there di’s on a three day trial so, technically, if you know what you are doing and are slippy enough you could find, as your project ends that, the product is just not for you. 

[musik]

I've thought about a cheap DI box option, like one from Behringer, Millenium or ART perhaps.

If a DI box actually can do what I demand?

[metalhead]

I think you are using a DI box incorrectly in this scenario. A DI box is for leveling a high impedance signal, so that it travels and is 'picked up' at all. Think an unamplified guitar, plus cable, straight into your mixer. The signal is super low voltage and very high impedance. In electrical terms, what's actually hitting your desk is tiny and because it's high impedance, the longer the cable, the more signal is 'lost' on the way. If you have a particularly long cable, you can reasonably expect almost no sound at all.

A DI box fixes that by putting a voltage on the signal, usually line level voltage, which I think is 1v. That 1v is hot when it hits the desk, so doesn't require a huge amount of additional amplification and can travel miles down a cable as it's gone from a high impedance signal into a low one. This is just known as line level.

Anything output from an electrified desk or box I would expect to be at line level anyway. No need for a DI in this scenario and you're just adding an unnecessary item into your signal chain.

[metalhead]

Also, the only difference between a Mic Level and Line Level is additional voltage. Line Level is 0db which is 1v. Mic level is usually 4db which I think is 2-4v.

[musik]

Jan 10, 2023 8:28:50 GMT metalhead said:

I think you are using a DI box incorrectly in this scenario. A DI box is for leveling a high impedance signal, so that it travels and is 'picked up' at all. Think an unamplified guitar, plus cable, straight into your mixer. The signal is super low voltage and very high impedance. In electrical terms, what's actually hitting your desk is tiny and because it's high impedance, the longer the cable, the more signal is 'lost' on the way. If you have a particularly long cable, you can reasonably expect almost no sound at all.

A DI box fixes that by putting a voltage on the signal, usually line level voltage, which I think is 1v. That 1v is hot when it hits the desk, so doesn't require a huge amount of additional amplification and can travel miles down a cable as it's gone from a high impedance signal into a low one. This is just known as line level.

Anything output from an electrified desk or box I would expect to be at line level anyway. No need for a DI in this scenario and you're just adding an unnecessary item into your signal chain.

As I've understood it though, it's not about the cable length, but I might need a DI box even if people more often use those the other way round to get another mic input to a line level output. I've cables from 30 cm to 5 meters. Here it's about going from a line level out 3 and 4, to a mic level in 3 and 4 (without phantom power), if I want to transfer all 4 analog tracks to the digital unit simultaneously.

The analog portable recorder has:
Line Out 1 (trs)
Line Out 2 (trs)
Line Out 3 (trs)
Line Out 4 (trs)

The digital portable recorder has:
Line In 1 (trs/xlr combo, with Hi-Z on/off)
Line In 2 (trs/xlr combo)
Line In 3 (xlr, dyn mic)
Line In 4 (xlr, dyn mic)
Line In 5 (xlr, cond mic, ph power on/off)
Line In 6 (xlr, cond mic, ph power in pair w 5)
Line In 7 (xlr, cond mic, ph power on/off)
Line In 8 (xlr, cond mic, ph power in pair w 7)

Still waiting for a response from the distributor about the exact model.

There is still another way to solve the problem.
1) transfer track 3 and 4 from the analog recorder to track 1 and 2 on the digital recorder
2) move track 1 and 2 on the digital recorder to track 3 and 4 on it
3) rewind the analog tape
4) transfer track 1 and 2 on the analog recorder to track 1 and 2 on the digital recorder
5) match the transfered tracks on the digital recorder on the time line

For all the tapes


With the sound card and software I had earlier with my older pc it was easy to address/route the incoming signal/s to any desired track/s in the recording software. But with this new portable digital recorder it doesn't work that way. Where you put the cable decides what track it will land on.

[musik]

Jan 10, 2023 8:28:50 GMT metalhead said:

I think you are using a DI box incorrectly in this scenario. A DI box is for leveling a high impedance signal, so that it travels and is 'picked up' at all. Think an unamplified guitar, plus cable, straight into your mixer. The signal is super low voltage and very high impedance. In electrical terms, what's actually hitting your desk is tiny and because it's high impedance, the longer the cable, the more signal is 'lost' on the way. If you have a particularly long cable, you can reasonably expect almost no sound at all.

A DI box fixes that by putting a voltage on the signal, usually line level voltage, which I think is 1v. That 1v is hot when it hits the desk, so doesn't require a huge amount of additional amplification and can travel miles down a cable as it's gone from a high impedance signal into a low one. This is just known as line level.

Anything output from an electrified desk or box I would expect to be at line level anyway. No need for a DI in this scenario and you're just adding an unnecessary item into your signal chain.

Ok.
I got the e-mail response from the distributor today and they said a DI box is absolutely what I need to complete the task.

They recommended the Palmer Pan O2 Pro active DI box for this digital recorder. But after I've read about it now I can't understand how it would work if I don't get two of those.

Therefore I've checked out Behringer active DI box, since it has two tele TRS inputs AND two XLR outputs, incl a ground lift etc.

The shop with the Palmer DI box "only" wants 1050 SEK (£80) atm, which is priceworthy compared to other music shop's 2300 SEK (£175).

The Behringer model is 335 SEK (£25).

I will probably write back and ask how just ONE Palmer (1 channel) will do the trick.

The Behringer model is more in level with what I planned to spend. However, I understand Palmer must have some advantages in comparison.
Maybe Behringer would work to do some certain electric guitar recordings with more tolerance to distortion, hum, background noise et cetera, whereas the Palmer is more suitable for cleaner high fidelity transfers like the one I attend to do. Well, sort of anyway ... as much as possible with analog tapes ...

It might end with me buying none, since I'm not sure I always will need several line ins. It's nice it has 6 mic inputs (thinking a couple of guitars, percussion, singing, or a drum kit
).

The freq curve for these model says:

Palmer 20-20 kHz (-1 dB)

Behringer 20-70 kHz (-3 dB)

Both are active. I've read passive DI boxes can tend to lose the high frequencies, so the general advice seems to be to go for an active DI box.