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Post by Paul Spencer on May 2, 2024 11:05:34 GMT
Eh? I've literally just said that you asked two different questions. I answered your first one originally and have done so again now and I've also answered your second question this time. What's the problem? You have also literally said "And the answer to your question, is the same as it was, when you asked the same question last week" And it is. What's the issue?
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 2, 2024 11:08:05 GMT
Why did THIS FAMILY still try to enter “ illegally “ ...... Particularly given that that already had 14 applications turned down in safe ( similarly welcoming Western democracies?) countries ? Why were they rejected 14 times? Surely the odds were that their application would not be considered , let alone rejected. So why put themselvesat risk. Desperation, the last hope?...BUT it seems to me it would more than likely result in failure? Just to address this particular point and not interject in your overall conversation with Paul I doubt we know or will ever know all of the circumstances of this Family The answer is in the first Paragraph of the link you posted, they were, according to the Father, about to be sent back to Basra in Iraq by France who considered it safe to do so. Whether this is true or the Father believed it who knows. Human nature makes people do extraordinary brave or stupid things when faced with adversity, it's why we see extraordinary acts of bravery during Wars. In his interview with BBC the Father said his goal was to find a safe haven where he and his wife could work to support their children in a stable environment so they could receive an education. It's a modest ambition shared by the majority of Family Units. What prompted him as head of the Family to risk the lives of his Family? He apparently had been turned down for Asylum Status 14 times in Belgium, Sweden and France I assume so facing the prospect of he and his Family being sent to Iraq he took a gamble that ended in Tragic circumstances. Did he think if he and his Family reached UK their passage to settled status would be easily successful, I doubt it given his previous experience but I'm guessing having lived a nomadic life for 14 years another period wasn't daunting compared to being sent to Iraq in his mind. Sometimes there just isn't a perfect answer as to why people do certain things, not least because we just don't know all the facts. What this episode has done hopefully and it was through pure luck that BBC had a film crew on the Beach to see all the events unfold and subsequent interview with the Father. It puts a Human Face on who some, not all, Asylum Seekers are as opposed to the view they are all scroungers trying to get Benefits Which is pretty much exactly the same answer that I gave BJR.
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Post by Eggybread on May 2, 2024 11:57:06 GMT
A couple of questions on this absolute tragic case www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/may/01/father-of-girl-died-channel-family-feared-deported-iraqIf crossing by boat is deemed an illegal way to enter Britain and gain asylum, why didn't the family ( and other similar families) enter by a " legitimate " means?( And I am not talking about the rights and wrongs of the UK making it 'easier' for people to apply for asylum eg having a processing point (s) on the continent I am asking about the methods by which people arrive here. Secondly if they have already lived in 4 EU countries and had their asylum request turned down 14 times, why would coming to the UK offer more hope....I'd imagine that for whatever reasons the other 14 applications were rejected, the UK would probably reject them for similar reasons There are no legal ways of entering the UK unless you come from a few specific countries which have a deal with the UK
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 2, 2024 12:04:44 GMT
Why did THIS FAMILY still try to enter “ illegally “ ...... Particularly given that that already had 14 applications turned down in safe ( similarly welcoming Western democracies?) countries ? Why were they rejected 14 times? Surely the odds were that their application would not be considered , let alone rejected. So why put themselvesat risk. Desperation, the last hope?...BUT it seems to me it would more than likely result in failure? Just to address this particular point and not interject in your overall conversation with Paul I doubt we know or will ever know all of the circumstances of this Family The answer is in the first Paragraph of the link you posted, they were, according to the Father, about to be sent back to Basra in Iraq by France who considered it safe to do so. Whether this is true or the Father believed it who knows. Human nature makes people do extraordinary brave or stupid things when faced with adversity, it's why we see extraordinary acts of bravery during Wars. In his interview with BBC the Father said his goal was to find a safe haven where he and his wife could work to support their children in a stable environment so they could receive an education. It's a modest ambition shared by the majority of Family Units. What prompted him as head of the Family to risk the lives of his Family? He apparently had been turned down for Asylum Status 14 times in Belgium, Sweden and France I assume so facing the prospect of he and his Family being sent to Iraq he took a gamble that ended in Tragic circumstances. Did he think if he and his Family reached UK their passage to settled status would be easily successful, I doubt it given his previous experience but I'm guessing having lived a nomadic life for 14 years another period wasn't daunting compared to being sent to Iraq in his mind. Sometimes there just isn't a perfect answer as to why people do certain things, not least because we just don't know all the facts. What this episode has done hopefully and it was through pure luck that BBC had a film crew on the Beach to see all the events unfold and subsequent interview with the Father. It puts a Human Face on who some, not all, Asylum Seekers are as opposed to the view they are all scroungers trying to get Benefits Yes ,That's how I see it" He took a gamble "....but given the UK asylum CONDITIONS AND his history of having been turned down 14 times in the EU , as desperate as the family were, it was unlikely to succeed ( and I get the desperation). Is this a case where the 4 countries od residence could have done more? ( with hindsight)
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 2, 2024 12:05:54 GMT
You have also literally said "And the answer to your question, is the same as it was, when you asked the same question last week" And it is. What's the issue? Paul...on my simplistic reading of your posts you seem to be saying thst I asked two different questions and I asked the same question
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 2, 2024 12:15:59 GMT
And it is. What's the issue? Paul...on my simplistic reading of your posts you seem to be saying thst I asked two different questions and I asked the same question Rather than scrolling back through the thread, look at Eggybread's post a couple above this one. You can see that in your post you asked two questions. I answered both of them. For your first question (which is the same as the one as you asked last week) I gave you the same answer as Eggybread has done. And for your second question, I gave you the same answer as wannabee has done.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on May 2, 2024 14:28:07 GMT
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Post by wannabee on May 2, 2024 15:25:08 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 2, 2024 15:28:34 GMT
Brilliant
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 2, 2024 15:31:04 GMT
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Post by milton58 on May 2, 2024 17:04:53 GMT
put them fuckers on the barge too and push it towards france
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Post by maninasuitcase on May 2, 2024 18:30:59 GMT
Clearly the protestors are gonna pay for all this uncontrolled immigration then cos i arent.
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Post by knype on May 2, 2024 19:17:01 GMT
Anyone who agrees with the blocking of the coach and thinks that the police today acted correctly by not baton charging, Kettering and bringing in the horses also need putting on the flights
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Post by wannabee on May 2, 2024 20:22:46 GMT
Controlled Migration (000's) Year Migrants Emigrants Net Asylum Seekers 2010 604 339 265 18 2011 599 351 248 20 2012 524 363 161 22 2013 557 350 207 24 2014 667 358 309 25 2015 664 334 330 24 2016 622 369 253 25 2017 644 399 245 33 2018 825 549 276 30 2019 788 605 183 36 2020 662 569 93 30 2021 891 424 467 50 2022 1234 489 745 81 2023 1180 508 672 79 TOTAL 10,461 6,007 4,454 497 www.statista.com/statistics/283287/net-migration-figures-of-the-united-kingdom-y-on-y/researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk Not the only reason people complain about Asylum Seekers but the pressure on Housing and Health Services figures highly. In the last 14 years 4.5 Million have Net migrated legally plus another *1/2 Million Asylum Seekers or about 10%. Yet the 10% seems to take up all the Oxygen Since UK "Took Back Control" there has been a spike in Asylum Seekers, the last 3 years account for 42% of the 14 year total. There has also been a spike in legal Net legal migration and guess what, the last 3 years account for 42% of the 14 year total A more cynical person than I might conclude that the spike in legal migrants are putting more pressure on Housing and Medical Services than the spike in Asylum Seekers and the Government are Gaslighting to cover up their incompetence * There are no figures on the number of Asylum Seekers who have been deported or left voluntarily, so the total number is inflated
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Post by henry on May 2, 2024 20:49:05 GMT
Anyone who agrees with the blocking of the coach and thinks that the police today acted correctly by not baton charging, Kettering and bringing in the horses also need putting on the flights Two tier policing, which according to some, does not exist.
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Post by wannabee on May 2, 2024 21:42:01 GMT
Anyone who agrees with the blocking of the coach and thinks that the police today acted correctly by not baton charging, Kettering and bringing in the horses also need putting on the flights An all party Commons Committee visited the Bibby Stockholm in February and found the conditions could be in breach of UK Human Rights Law and wrote a letter to the Home Office expressing that opinion I don't condone violence, a peaceful protest in Margate last month was also successful in stopping removals. Perhaps the protesters were afraid the Home Office would be prosecuted for breaking the Law. committees.parliament.uk/committee/83/home-affairs-committee/news/199747/questions-for-home-office-on-conditions-at-bibby-stockholm/
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Post by deeside2 on May 6, 2024 16:46:25 GMT
I don't know whether this is legal or illegal immigration, or whether these people were born here, but this video shows a not exactly British way of disposing of your rubbish. It's bloody disgusting whoever they are.
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Post by cobhamstokey on May 6, 2024 16:51:26 GMT
I don't know whether this is legal or illegal immigration, or whether these people were born here, but this video shows a not exactly British way of disposing of your rubbish. It's bloody disgusting whoever they are. Can’t be good for the environment that.
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Post by iancransonsknees on May 6, 2024 21:13:49 GMT
Paddy's aren't too happy about it still it seems 😬
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Post by wannabee on May 6, 2024 21:56:17 GMT
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Post by musik on May 7, 2024 5:33:45 GMT
The leader of our Liberal Center party has a name I will never remember. Muhammed Semirock or something.
However, they want to have a controlled immigration meaning to make sure someone leaves the door wide open.
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Post by deeside2 on May 7, 2024 5:44:03 GMT
The leader of our Liberal Center party has a name I will never remember. Muhammed Semirock or something. However, they want to have a controlled immigration meaning to make sure someone leaves the door wide open. We could send you Sunak or Starmer, they'll be sure to wedge the door as wide open as possible.
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Post by musik on May 7, 2024 6:06:39 GMT
The leader of our Liberal Center party has a name I will never remember. Muhammed Semirock or something. However, they want to have a controlled immigration meaning to make sure someone leaves the door wide open. We could send you Sunak or Starmer, they'll be sure to wedge the door as wide open as possible. Ok. They say it's not we who have the crisis, it's the people escaping. In a way they could be right, but it's not always the people needing help who gets it and are able to escape war. We get to some extent people who are trouble makers, basically starting a civil war here against their former "neighbours". You must sometimes ask yourself why they have no paper and what they had escaped from.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 7, 2024 6:16:36 GMT
Controlled Migration (000's) Year Migrants Emigrants Net Asylum Seekers 2010 604 339 265 18 2011 599 351 248 20 2012 524 363 161 22 2013 557 350 207 24 2014 667 358 309 25 2015 664 334 330 24 2016 622 369 253 25 2017 644 399 245 33 2018 825 549 276 30 2019 788 605 183 36 2020 662 569 93 30 2021 891 424 467 50 2022 1234 489 745 81 2023 1180 508 672 79 TOTAL 10,461 6,007 4,454 497 www.statista.com/statistics/283287/net-migration-figures-of-the-united-kingdom-y-on-y/researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk Not the only reason people complain about Asylum Seekers but the pressure on Housing and Health Services figures highly. In the last 14 years 4.5 Million have Net migrated legally plus another *1/2 Million Asylum Seekers or about 10%. Yet the 10% seems to take up all the Oxygen Since UK "Took Back Control" there has been a spike in Asylum Seekers, the last 3 years account for 42% of the 14 year total. There has also been a spike in legal Net legal migration and guess what, the last 3 years account for 42% of the 14 year total A more cynical person than I might conclude that the spike in legal migrants are putting more pressure on Housing and Medical Services than the spike in Asylum Seekers and the Government are Gaslighting to cover up their incompetence * There are no figures on the number of Asylum Seekers who have been deported or left voluntarily, so the total number is inflated The spike in legal immigration is not down to ignorance - its deliberate government policy. The point about legal immigration is that the government is in control of the numbers. They have chosen to let in more people in order to prop up an aging indigenous workforce and they are doing this through cheaper non EU labour. Cheap non-EU labour was always part of the Brexit plan - the focus on illegal immigration is merely a distraction tactic. And Brexiteers would rather take the bait than admit they've been taken for fools. If anyone is genuinely interested in bringing down the numbers they really should be looking at government policy on legal immigration, not what they are doing about illegal immigration as it just the tip of the iceberg. The price there is the collapse of the university and care sector of the economy.
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Post by musik on May 7, 2024 8:06:11 GMT
We have parties up here who want a real income balance globally, meaning as long as we are better off in Sweden than the median value in the world globally we can accept immigrants, so to get a smaller bit of the homemade cake each one of us.
Is it fair?
Discuss.
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Post by wannabee on May 10, 2024 10:17:56 GMT
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Post by wannabee on May 10, 2024 17:05:43 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 11, 2024 0:46:54 GMT
You don't know whether to laugh or cry ...
“It’s incredibly ironic that at the same time the UK is rounding up people to send them to Rwanda, there are reports of Rwandans arriving on Australia’s shores seeking asylum. And it is deeply disturbing that the UK is knowingly copying our offshore detention policy given the overwhelming evidence that it is a failed policy.”
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Post by oggyoggy on May 11, 2024 9:05:49 GMT
Controlled Migration (000's) Year Migrants Emigrants Net Asylum Seekers 2010 604 339 265 18 2011 599 351 248 20 2012 524 363 161 22 2013 557 350 207 24 2014 667 358 309 25 2015 664 334 330 24 2016 622 369 253 25 2017 644 399 245 33 2018 825 549 276 30 2019 788 605 183 36 2020 662 569 93 30 2021 891 424 467 50 2022 1234 489 745 81 2023 1180 508 672 79 TOTAL 10,461 6,007 4,454 497 www.statista.com/statistics/283287/net-migration-figures-of-the-united-kingdom-y-on-y/researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk Not the only reason people complain about Asylum Seekers but the pressure on Housing and Health Services figures highly. In the last 14 years 4.5 Million have Net migrated legally plus another *1/2 Million Asylum Seekers or about 10%. Yet the 10% seems to take up all the Oxygen Since UK "Took Back Control" there has been a spike in Asylum Seekers, the last 3 years account for 42% of the 14 year total. There has also been a spike in legal Net legal migration and guess what, the last 3 years account for 42% of the 14 year total A more cynical person than I might conclude that the spike in legal migrants are putting more pressure on Housing and Medical Services than the spike in Asylum Seekers and the Government are Gaslighting to cover up their incompetence * There are no figures on the number of Asylum Seekers who have been deported or left voluntarily, so the total number is inflated The spike in legal immigration is not down to ignorance - its deliberate government policy. The point about legal immigration is that the government is in control of the numbers. They have chosen to let in more people in order to prop up an aging indigenous workforce and they are doing this through cheaper non EU labour. Cheap non-EU labour was always part of the Brexit plan - the focus on illegal immigration is merely a distraction tactic. And Brexiteers would rather take the bait than admit they've been taken for fools. If anyone is genuinely interested in bringing down the numbers they really should be looking at government policy on legal immigration, not what they are doing about illegal immigration as it just the tip of the iceberg. The price there is the collapse of the university and care sector of the economy. Absolutely. Most on here complaining about immigration were brexiteers. Don’t they get that they voted for much higher numbers of immigrants coming to this country when they voted leave? They probably didn’t know at the time. But that’s because they had no clue what they were voting for, as I always have said.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 12, 2024 1:51:28 GMT
Send the buggers back ...
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