|
Post by nicethrow on Sept 26, 2022 12:51:34 GMT
Some interesting stats on the Watford forum about us: wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/stoke-city-vs-watford-fc-02-10-2022-ko-1200.59697/'Stoke have primarily used a 3-5-2 this season, although have also used a 4-3-3 on occasion. Looking at the pass maps above we can see when building up out of the back they mostly play the ball to their wing-backs rather than moving the ball through the middle. The left side of the pitch seems to be their main focal point with the left side of the pitch (LWB/LCM/LCF) taking up more advanced positions than the right hand side of the pitch.' This show what we already know. Are we lacking a big target man up top to mix this up a bit?
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 26, 2022 13:23:42 GMT
Holden and O'Neill made exactly that point but the nearest we have to a target man is Delap and I don't think that's his game.
Having a target man as an option is different to having a target man as your Plan A. At this level the big target man has pretty much had its day - it's way too easy to defend against and most teams these days build from the back. The bigger concern for me is the imbalance between our attacking options on the right as against the left - that makes us far too predictable. Hopefully Sterling and/pr Clark can address that.
|
|
|
Post by femark on Sept 26, 2022 13:31:22 GMT
One of our biggest weaknesses has been the ability to play the ball from defence into central midfield effectively. If teams shut off our wing backs we generally look poor.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 26, 2022 14:08:04 GMT
Holden and O'Neill made exactly that point but the nearest we have to a target man is Delap and I don't think that's his game. Having a target man as an option is different to having a target man as your Plan A. At this level the big target man has pretty much had its day - it's way too easy to defend against and most teams these days build from the back. The bigger concern for me is the imbalance between our attacking options on the right as against the left - that makes us far too predictable. Hopefully Sterling and/pr Clark can address that. Having a big striker who exclusively acts as a target man might have had its day but having a more rounded big striker who has some presence in attack, can link the play, win aerial balls and has some power to hold off defenders as well as pose a goal threat certainly hasn't. That's actually really important still at this level and even in the Prem.
|
|
|
Post by Squeekster on Sept 26, 2022 14:27:21 GMT
Should of gone in for Keiffer Moore when Cardiff were struggling.
|
|
|
Post by wherty on Sept 26, 2022 14:53:14 GMT
Irrelevant when we have a new manager with new ideas.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 26, 2022 14:56:26 GMT
It's got nothing to do with a targetman has it and everything to do with using a formation that is basically built around Josh Tymon?
|
|
|
Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Sept 26, 2022 15:08:03 GMT
Surely we have to hope that Sterling can be the right-sided Tymon equivalent. Until we have two fully functioning and effective wing backs our game will as disjointed as it has been. How is Sterling by the way?
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 26, 2022 15:44:15 GMT
Holden and O'Neill made exactly that point but the nearest we have to a target man is Delap and I don't think that's his game. Having a target man as an option is different to having a target man as your Plan A. At this level the big target man has pretty much had its day - it's way too easy to defend against and most teams these days build from the back. The bigger concern for me is the imbalance between our attacking options on the right as against the left - that makes us far too predictable. Hopefully Sterling and/pr Clark can address that. Having a big striker who exclusively acts as a target man might have had its day but having a more rounded big striker who has some presence in attack, can link the play, win aerial balls and has some power to hold off defenders as well as pose a goal threat certainly hasn't. That's actually really important still at this level and even in the Prem. That's certainly true but the question is how you choose to play the game. What I'm saying is that a Plan A of focusing your attacking play on hitting a target man is way past its sell by date. If you have a physical striker who can give you that option then great - but I would still argue that your primary mode of attack should be based on a passing game through the midfield and full backs/wing backs. What stands out to me is the imbalance between our left and right sided attacking options which makes us too easy to snuff out. Hopefully we have players to come in who will resolve that - we don't have any big, physical strikers on the sidelines and it wouldn't solve our main problem anyway - in fact relying on one would make us even easier to defend against.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 26, 2022 16:13:49 GMT
Having a big striker who exclusively acts as a target man might have had its day but having a more rounded big striker who has some presence in attack, can link the play, win aerial balls and has some power to hold off defenders as well as pose a goal threat certainly hasn't. That's actually really important still at this level and even in the Prem. That's certainly true but the question is how you choose to play the game. What I'm saying is that a Plan A of focusing your attacking play on hitting a target man is way past its sell by date. If you have a physical striker who can give you that option then great - but I would still argue that your primary mode of attack should be based on a passing game through the midfield and full backs/wing backs. What stands out to me is the imbalance between our left and right sided attacking options which makes us too easy to snuff out. Hopefully we have players to come in who will resolve that - we don't have any big, physical strikers on the sidelines and it wouldn't solve our main problem anyway - in fact relying on one would make us even easier to defend against. I think you need the option of one to give yourself some kind of aerial threat in addition to playing through midfield - otherwise you risk becoming static and easy to mark and predictable in your patterns of play. Like most things it's about the balance - your big striker occupies defenders allowing your other forwards more space. The majority of the top 10 goalscorers in the Championship last season were all 6 foot 2 or taller and I suspect that isn't a coincidence either.
|
|
|
Post by raythesailor on Sept 27, 2022 15:27:55 GMT
Are we going to be the victims of the “New manager bounce”?
I don’t think so personally. We ( or more importantly the team) are still learning from our own new manager .
I have read somewhere that Billic is awaiting a work permit before he can “officially “ take up his duties. If he is already there on the job is it Legal ?
Finally glad this Int break is over. Let’s get back to good old fashioned club football 😀⚓️
|
|
|
Post by mrrine on Sept 27, 2022 15:42:04 GMT
It's got nothing to do with a targetman has it and everything to do with using a formation that is basically built around Josh Tymon? ...and only really functions well when Powell is firing on at least more than half cylinders!
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 28, 2022 7:54:54 GMT
That's certainly true but the question is how you choose to play the game. What I'm saying is that a Plan A of focusing your attacking play on hitting a target man is way past its sell by date. If you have a physical striker who can give you that option then great - but I would still argue that your primary mode of attack should be based on a passing game through the midfield and full backs/wing backs. What stands out to me is the imbalance between our left and right sided attacking options which makes us too easy to snuff out. Hopefully we have players to come in who will resolve that - we don't have any big, physical strikers on the sidelines and it wouldn't solve our main problem anyway - in fact relying on one would make us even easier to defend against. I think you need the option of one to give yourself some kind of aerial threat in addition to playing through midfield - otherwise you risk becoming static and easy to mark and predictable in your patterns of play. Like most things it's about the balance - your big striker occupies defenders allowing your other forwards more space. The majority of the top 10 goalscorers in the Championship last season were all 6 foot 2 or taller and I suspect that isn't a coincidence either. That's pretty much what I said - a physical striker is an asset but playing long should not be your primary mode of attack.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 28, 2022 8:10:39 GMT
I think you need the option of one to give yourself some kind of aerial threat in addition to playing through midfield - otherwise you risk becoming static and easy to mark and predictable in your patterns of play. Like most things it's about the balance - your big striker occupies defenders allowing your other forwards more space. The majority of the top 10 goalscorers in the Championship last season were all 6 foot 2 or taller and I suspect that isn't a coincidence either. That's pretty much what I said - a physical striker is an asset but playing long should not be your primary mode of attack. I don't think anyone had argued it should be, had they?
|
|
|
Post by apb1 on Sept 28, 2022 9:23:31 GMT
Sounds like we could have a tsunami of injuries just when we thought the treatment room was emptying.
Definitely out - Bonham (?), Brown (quad), Souttar (fitness), Thompson (concussed), Clucas (hamstring), Clarke Maybe still out - Sterling, Kilkenny, Jagielka (if he is injured which I assume he is as Baker M is on bench these days), Tezgel Maybe out according to rumour on here - Tymon, Baker, Powell
Jones is on loan so it's going to be hard to get a full bench isn't it?
Bursik
Taylor Flint Fox
Wilmot Baker (if fit) Laurent Smallbone Fosu
Gayle Delap
Subs: Fielding Sparrow Baker Campbell DWP maybe Powell (if fit) plus a n other.. Malone? What even is he?
Hopefully we'll get some good news on returners this week, we could do with some!
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 28, 2022 9:38:36 GMT
That's pretty much what I said - a physical striker is an asset but playing long should not be your primary mode of attack. I don't think anyone had argued it should be, had they? No - it's you that insist on making it an argument. I was just agreeing with the OP.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 28, 2022 9:41:43 GMT
I don't think anyone had argued it should be, had they? No - it's you that insist on making it an argument. I was just agreeing with the OP. I disagreed with your sweeping statement about target men, then you refined it.
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Sept 28, 2022 9:44:15 GMT
Injury situation an absolute nightmare. New manager has only a 25% win ratio from his first 4 games with a tough run coming up.
Injuries or not, the last thing he needs is a Lambert or Jones style return after 10.
Fingers crossed the wingbacks are back, which will make a huge, huge difference and that the Thompson injury doesn't keep him out.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Sept 28, 2022 11:42:13 GMT
This might be good
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Sept 28, 2022 12:14:26 GMT
Injury situation an absolute nightmare. New manager has only a 25% win ratio from his first 4 games with a tough run coming up. Injuries or not, the last thing he needs is a Lambert or Jones style return after 10. Fingers crossed the wingbacks are back, which will make a huge, huge difference and that the Thompson injury doesn't keep him out. If Thompson came off with concussion he’s not allowed to play Sunday mate
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Sept 28, 2022 12:15:31 GMT
Injury situation an absolute nightmare. New manager has only a 25% win ratio from his first 4 games with a tough run coming up. Injuries or not, the last thing he needs is a Lambert or Jones style return after 10. Fingers crossed the wingbacks are back, which will make a huge, huge difference and that the Thompson injury doesn't keep him out. If Thompson came off with concussion he’s not allowed to play Sunday mate Balls.
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 28, 2022 12:30:30 GMT
No - it's you that insist on making it an argument. I was just agreeing with the OP. I disagreed with your sweeping statement about target men, then you refined it. I said target men are no longer the primary mode of attack. I never said a target man/physical striker wasn't useful. My original post supported the OP. As ever it was you who tried to start an argument by deliberately misrepresenting what I actually said.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 28, 2022 14:02:35 GMT
I disagreed with your sweeping statement about target men, then you refined it. I said target men are no longer the primary mode of attack. I never said a target man/physical striker wasn't useful. My original post supported the OP. As ever it was you who tried to start an argument by deliberately misrepresenting what I actually said. What is 'the primary mode of attack', out of interest? You're talking as if a big, physical striker is a nice-to-have string to our bow, it's more important than that and we've suffered for the lack of one and for the previous manager's unfathomable conviction that he could just sign poachers and turn them into target men or link strikers.
|
|
|
Post by apb1 on Sept 30, 2022 8:59:12 GMT
Deafening silence on injuries so far. You'd think that the Sentinel had some kind of source within the club who could shed a bit of light. I sensed from press conferences that Neil was less expansive in talking about the injury progress than O'Neill had been, so perhaps the attitude is 'need to know' and keep the opponents guessing as to our likely squad.
|
|
|
Post by scfc75 on Sept 30, 2022 9:09:54 GMT
We’ll win this
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Sept 30, 2022 9:19:43 GMT
Some interesting stats on the Watford forum about us: wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/stoke-city-vs-watford-fc-02-10-2022-ko-1200.59697/'Stoke have primarily used a 3-5-2 this season, although have also used a 4-3-3 on occasion. Looking at the pass maps above we can see when building up out of the back they mostly play the ball to their wing-backs rather than moving the ball through the middle. The left side of the pitch seems to be their main focal point with the left side of the pitch (LWB/LCM/LCF) taking up more advanced positions than the right hand side of the pitch.' This show what we already know. Are we lacking a big target man up top to mix this up a bit? We have one, his name is Delap.
|
|
|
Post by walrus on Sept 30, 2022 10:20:55 GMT
If Thompson came off with concussion he’s not allowed to play Sunday mate Balls. The mandatory six day sit-out only applies when symptoms of concussion (headache, dizziness, blurred vision, balance problems) are present. UEFA’s rules are that if an on-pitch diagnosis can’t be made within three minutes then the player must be substituted, which appears to have been the case for Thompson. So really it comes down to whether or not the Northern Ireland medical team decided he was actually concussed in the end.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 30, 2022 14:10:18 GMT
|
|
|
Post by apb1 on Sept 30, 2022 14:31:32 GMT
Taciturn "Stoke are 'ok' on the injury front. He won't go into any more information than that."
We can perhaps glean that Laurent and Powell remain in contention, maybe Thompson not concussed?
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Sept 30, 2022 14:34:55 GMT
Taciturn "Stoke are 'ok' on the injury front. He won't go into any more information than that." We can perhaps glean that Laurent and Powell remain in contention, maybe Thompson not concussed? Don’t think it matters if he’s concussed or not as the fact he came off the pitch with concussion? or a head injury? means he can’t play for 2 weeks
|
|