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Post by owdestokie2 on Nov 23, 2022 7:44:38 GMT
Councils are about to be decimated by the Tory government. The club would need to fund all of it. The Leek line looks promising but it’s only preparatory work isn’t it? And no one’s committed to actually building it or putting an actual train on it yet. I think there’s a good chance it will happen but it’s not a given. Central government would fund it. There are currently hundreds of small and large stations being built/reopened all across the country. To the tune of millions of pounds, out of the transport budget. It’s just we don’t see it. And we certainly don’t get anything our fair share, or anything above and beyond anywhere else. Even with Conservative MPs, county council, city council they’ve delivered a big far ZERO meaningful transport capital into the city that would affect change. Nothing! Don’t forget investment in transport is just that, investment. Done well it generates revenue! A return. Just like all other cities transport networks. And it generates capital £££ and growth! It will pay back the investment, it’s just about how long you’re willing to wait. And governments can wait as long as they want Ask yourself if a public owned and ran transport system is good enough for London (tfl) Manchester (tfgm) and Birmingham then why do we get ripped off with First etc? If it’s good enough for them it’s good enough for us Borrowing for capital spending (transport/energy) that gets a return eventually and growth is good. Borrowing to pay for our daily expenditure (see Liz Truss) is bad It just needs to be justifiable and we need to have the will to demand it. All good things stem from good transport…health, justice, culture, exercise, housing, business, investment It’s good to see the council try and go after it but it needs to be with a realistic delivery plan and concrete demands, as I said above the fact NUL/SMDC wanted no part is a disgrace and questions should be asked. Fully agree with a lot of what you say. It would be very interesting to view a fully integrated transport system for the City (and you’re right about NuL). However seeing a “route” plan on paper and considering how that could be implemented are two different things. By that I mean demolition of buildings/housing on proposed routes (compulsory purchase), having to go around/through relatively new infrastructure/housing/commercial projects etc. The route of the loop line and the Silverdale/Newcastle/Stoke rail links can’t be reopened. Furthermore such would have been ideal when we were an industrial City, needing to move lots people, product etc. Missed the boat?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2022 7:49:58 GMT
Central government would fund it. There are currently hundreds of small and large stations being built/reopened all across the country. To the tune of millions of pounds, out of the transport budget. It’s just we don’t see it. And we certainly don’t get anything our fair share, or anything above and beyond anywhere else. Even with Conservative MPs, county council, city council they’ve delivered a big far ZERO meaningful transport capital into the city that would affect change. Nothing! Don’t forget investment in transport is just that, investment. Done well it generates revenue! A return. Just like all other cities transport networks. And it generates capital £££ and growth! It will pay back the investment, it’s just about how long you’re willing to wait. And governments can wait as long as they want Ask yourself if a public owned and ran transport system is good enough for London (tfl) Manchester (tfgm) and Birmingham then why do we get ripped off with First etc? If it’s good enough for them it’s good enough for us Borrowing for capital spending (transport/energy) that gets a return eventually and growth is good. Borrowing to pay for our daily expenditure (see Liz Truss) is bad It just needs to be justifiable and we need to have the will to demand it. All good things stem from good transport…health, justice, culture, exercise, housing, business, investment It’s good to see the council try and go after it but it needs to be with a realistic delivery plan and concrete demands, as I said above the fact NUL/SMDC wanted no part is a disgrace and questions should be asked. Fully agree with a lot of what you say. It would be very interesting to view a fully integrated transport system for the City (and you’re right about NuL). However seeing a “route” plan on paper and considering how that could be implemented are two different things. By that I mean demolition of buildings/housing on proposed routes (compulsory purchase), having to go around/through relatively new infrastructure/housing/commercial projects etc. The route of the loop line and the Silverdale/Newcastle/Stoke rail links can’t be reopened. Furthermore such would have been ideal when we were an industrial City, needing to move lots people, product etc. Missed the boat? I think plenty of cities (much bigger than ours of course) have shown you have never missed the boat. The only thing stopping it is attitude.
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Post by scfc75 on Nov 23, 2022 8:09:28 GMT
Fully agree with a lot of what you say. It would be very interesting to view a fully integrated transport system for the City (and you’re right about NuL). However seeing a “route” plan on paper and considering how that could be implemented are two different things. By that I mean demolition of buildings/housing on proposed routes (compulsory purchase), having to go around/through relatively new infrastructure/housing/commercial projects etc. The route of the loop line and the Silverdale/Newcastle/Stoke rail links can’t be reopened. Furthermore such would have been ideal when we were an industrial City, needing to move lots people, product etc. Missed the boat? I think plenty of cities (much bigger than ours of course) have shown you have never missed the boat. The only thing stopping it is attitude. Is that the Amsterdam that makes billions of revenue from tourism each year and can easily afford investing in infrastructure? It’s hardly a comparison. The only thing stopping it is money. Railways are generally unprofitable, so spunking millions on a project that won’t benefit ‘the many’, especially at a time of such financial hardship, makes zero sense.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2022 8:13:43 GMT
I think plenty of cities (much bigger than ours of course) have shown you have never missed the boat. The only thing stopping it is attitude. Is that the Amsterdam that makes billions of revenue from tourism each year and can easily afford investing in infrastructure? It’s hardly a comparison. The only thing stopping it is money. Railways are generally unprofitable, so spunking millions on a project that won’t benefit ‘the many’, especially at a time of such financial hardship, makes zero sense. Exhibit A of the attitude.
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Post by hardcastle on Nov 23, 2022 10:10:36 GMT
You can't just say that when someone expresses a valid counter argument - it negates objective debate. I'm all for positivity and exploring the possible but if it doesn't stack up then the taxpayer has to justify subsidizing the investment for non-financial reasons. It's not about attitude it's about justification.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2022 10:28:12 GMT
You can't just say that when someone expresses a valid counter argument - it negates objective debate. I'm all for positivity and exploring the possible but if it doesn't stack up then the taxpayer has to justify subsidizing the investment for non-financial reasons. It's not about attitude it's about justification. No it doesn’t. It proves my point.
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Post by iamstokie on Mar 1, 2023 17:25:04 GMT
The MP who’s trying get Meir station reopened is saying it will cost about 15 million , so a new station by the ground would cost more
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Post by slash on Mar 1, 2023 17:36:57 GMT
i had a dream recently where i came into loads of money and had bought Stoke from the Coates family, and the stadium from Bet365. after renaming the ground to the New Victoria Ground, sacking the team and hiring footballers who care, i offered to help put £20m towards building a new station at the ground so fans could get to the Vic without much hassle. unfortunately, the council told me to fuck off and i woke up shortly after.
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Post by Veritas on Mar 1, 2023 18:58:28 GMT
Please God not more brainless drivel on this non issue!!
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Post by spiderpuss on Mar 1, 2023 19:17:13 GMT
The MP who’s trying get Meir station reopened is saying it will cost about 15 million , so a new station by the ground would cost more Unlikely, there's more spare ground by the stadium, whereas Meir is tight construction wise. Bear in mind all new stations must be step-free, IE have lifts. That's easier at the Brit IMO.
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Post by iamstokie on Mar 1, 2023 19:34:52 GMT
The MP who’s trying get Meir station reopened is saying it will cost about 15 million , so a new station by the ground would cost more Unlikely, there's more spare ground by the stadium, whereas Meir is tight construction wise. Bear in mind all new stations must be step-free, IE have lifts. That's easier at the Brit IMO. No , you would need create access roads near the ground and buy land , would vastly increase the cost , there used to be a station at meir , though very over grown , the road structure is already there
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Mar 1, 2023 19:56:17 GMT
I think plenty of cities (much bigger than ours of course) have shown you have never missed the boat. The only thing stopping it is attitude. Is that the Amsterdam that makes billions of revenue from tourism each year and can easily afford investing in infrastructure? It’s hardly a comparison. The only thing stopping it is money. Railways are generally unprofitable, so spunking millions on a project that won’t benefit ‘the many’, especially at a time of such financial hardship, makes zero sense. Like HS2?
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 1, 2023 20:16:54 GMT
A proper, well thought out, Park and Ride is the only viable improvement to existing arrangements.
With cooperation from SoT Council of course.
Not easy of course, but could be an answer.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Mar 1, 2023 21:55:27 GMT
Give Neil a couple of years snd a double rack rank will suffice
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Post by stokesaint1 on Mar 4, 2023 0:42:43 GMT
A proper, well thought out, Park and Ride is the only viable improvement to existing arrangements. With cooperation from SoT Council of course. Not easy of course, but could be an answer. Hopefully nothing like the one the clowns organised for the England women's game, where the only thing proved was total incompetence from all involved.
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Post by lordb on Mar 4, 2023 10:40:30 GMT
Instead of a train station by the ground let's build a new ground by the train station
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2023 11:50:28 GMT
So many mistakes made in Stoke , with the town , the football ground , the transport infrastructure , everything , its nigh on impossible to know where to start .
Unlike Amsterdam ( the area around Dam Square) or even Manchester , there is no actual town centre .
If the planners had said right we are going to clear this land around stoke station ( train links to london , birmingham ,manchester etc ) , we are going to put a new football ground next to it , with a big concourse surround , partially covered ( roofed) which will have a big ( by stoke standards ) market ( with super cheap stalls just to get the traders in )for all sort of non supermarket stuff ( records , farm fresh foods , designer whatever) on non match days , we will have a mixture of wetherspoons / costa coffee big places and some smaller ones. Hand out some music licences , encourage busking , street entertainment, put the cinema / ten pin bowling here , get everyone into this one hub . Make this actual hub a profitable place to trade and a nice place to visit and then over decades try and help the nearest surrounding areas . You would have something ( a vibrant hub ) to build off , somewhere to start from .
We have the total opposite , out of town this , out of that ,increasingly bewildered stokies going fxck it , its all to complicated , i am just going to order a load of stuff online and they can deliver it to my door.
It's a total mess .
Of course , we need solutions , not diagnosis of the problem .
But it really is a mess . It's going to be a massive job to even begin to sort the problem out .
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Post by banksy1art on Mar 4, 2023 13:24:33 GMT
So many mistakes made in Stoke , with the town , the football ground , the transport infrastructure , everything , its nigh on impossible to know where to start . Unlike Amsterdam ( the area around Dam Square) or even Manchester , there is no actual town centre . If the planners had said right we are going to clear this land around stoke station ( train links to london , birmingham ,manchester etc ) , we are going to put a new football ground next to it , with a big concourse surround , partially covered ( roofed) which will have a big ( by stoke standards ) market ( with super cheap stalls just to get the traders in )for all sort of non supermarket stuff ( records , farm fresh foods , designer whatever) on non match days , we will have a mixture of wetherspoons / costa coffee big places and some smaller ones. Hand out some music licences , encourage busking , street entertainment, put the cinema / ten pin bowling here , get everyone into this one hub . Make this actual hub a profitable place to trade and a nice place to visit and then over decades try and help the nearest surrounding areas . You would have something ( a vibrant hub ) to build off , somewhere to start from . We have the total opposite , out of town this , out of that ,increasingly bewildered stokies going fxck it , its all to complicated , i am just going to order a load of stuff online and they can deliver it to my door. It's a total mess . Of course , we need solutions , not diagnosis of the problem . But it really is a mess . It's going to be a massive job to even begin to sort the problem out . if the Coates really wanted to they could do this now. Shelton (right next the the station and wedged in between the ‘city centre’ and stoke town centre) is made up of 750-1000 terraced houses. Let’s say they were to buy 1000 houses for 100,000 (however they are more like £80,000) that’s 100 Million pounds to buy all of them, then they would have to have them demolished. A smart new stadium on the site would then cost 100-200 million and there will still be plenty of room for the council to find funding from the government for restaurants, a cinema, new shopping centre/ market, an arena, apartments, offices etc It would still be a lot cheaper than Evertons new 500 Million pound stadium that they are building. It would really help to finally regenerate the city. If we are being honest 300 million is nowt to the Coates
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Post by Davef on Mar 4, 2023 14:20:18 GMT
So many mistakes made in Stoke , with the town , the football ground , the transport infrastructure , everything , its nigh on impossible to know where to start . Unlike Amsterdam ( the area around Dam Square) or even Manchester , there is no actual town centre . If the planners had said right we are going to clear this land around stoke station ( train links to london , birmingham ,manchester etc ) , we are going to put a new football ground next to it , with a big concourse surround , partially covered ( roofed) which will have a big ( by stoke standards ) market ( with super cheap stalls just to get the traders in )for all sort of non supermarket stuff ( records , farm fresh foods , designer whatever) on non match days , we will have a mixture of wetherspoons / costa coffee big places and some smaller ones. Hand out some music licences , encourage busking , street entertainment, put the cinema / ten pin bowling here , get everyone into this one hub . Make this actual hub a profitable place to trade and a nice place to visit and then over decades try and help the nearest surrounding areas . You would have something ( a vibrant hub ) to build off , somewhere to start from . We have the total opposite , out of town this , out of that ,increasingly bewildered stokies going fxck it , its all to complicated , i am just going to order a load of stuff online and they can deliver it to my door. It's a total mess . Of course , we need solutions , not diagnosis of the problem . But it really is a mess . It's going to be a massive job to even begin to sort the problem out . if the Coates really wanted to they could do this now. Shelton (right next the the station and wedged in between the ‘city centre’ and stoke town centre) is made up of 750-1000 terraced houses. Let’s say they were to buy 1000 houses for 100,000 (however they are more like £80,000) that’s 100 Million pounds to buy all of them, then they would have to have them demolished. A smart new stadium on the site would then cost 100-200 million and there will still be plenty of room for the council to find funding from the government for restaurants, a cinema, new shopping centre/ market, an arena, apartments, offices etc It would still be a lot cheaper than Evertons new 500 Million pound stadium that they are building. It would really help to finally regenerate the city. If we are being honest 300 million is nowt to the Coates Mate, give it up. You're talking out of your arse.
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Post by nott1 on Mar 4, 2023 14:24:00 GMT
What happened to Tory levelling up? If ever a city needed that it's Stoke where there should be a decent tram system with a stop nr.the stadium.
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Post by banksy1art on Mar 4, 2023 14:25:04 GMT
if the Coates really wanted to they could do this now. Shelton (right next the the station and wedged in between the ‘city centre’ and stoke town centre) is made up of 750-1000 terraced houses. Let’s say they were to buy 1000 houses for 100,000 (however they are more like £80,000) that’s 100 Million pounds to buy all of them, then they would have to have them demolished. A smart new stadium on the site would then cost 100-200 million and there will still be plenty of room for the council to find funding from the government for restaurants, a cinema, new shopping centre/ market, an arena, apartments, offices etc It would still be a lot cheaper than Evertons new 500 Million pound stadium that they are building. It would really help to finally regenerate the city. If we are being honest 300 million is nowt to the Coates Mate, give it up. You're talking out of your arse. and people wonder why the city is wank, absolutely no ambition or vision. Only in stoke. It’s fuckin embarrassing. I’m embarrassed to live here
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Post by Davef on Mar 4, 2023 14:29:59 GMT
Mate, give it up. You're talking out of your arse. and people wonder why the city is wank, absolutely no ambition or vision. Only in stoke. It’s fuckin embarrassing. I’m embarrassed to live here Well go and and find a city to live in in which the local football club can just go out and buy 1,000 houses to demolish and will automatically be given planning permission to build a multi million pound stadium on the site. It's pie in the sky nonsense and you are embarrassing yourself.
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Post by banksy1art on Mar 4, 2023 14:34:23 GMT
and people wonder why the city is wank, absolutely no ambition or vision. Only in stoke. It’s fuckin embarrassing. I’m embarrassed to live here Well go and and find a city to live in in which the local football club can just go out and buy 1,000 houses to demolish and will automatically be given planning permission to build a multi million pound stadium on the site. It's pie in the sky nonsense and you are embarrassing yourself. who said it would be instant? It would take at least 6 years but just having a new stadium to look forward to will breed ambition. The city needs a huge project to get some positivity going
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 4, 2023 14:35:37 GMT
Well go and and find a city to live in in which the local football club can just go out and buy 1,000 houses to demolish and will automatically be given planning permission to build a multi million pound stadium on the site. It's pie in the sky nonsense and you are embarrassing yourself. who said it would be instant? It would take at least 6 years but just having a new stadium to look forward to will breed ambition. The city needs a huge project to get some positivity going What about The Etruscan Square Thunder Dome!
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Post by sealion100 on Mar 4, 2023 14:40:03 GMT
Put the fountain back in fountain square in Hanley surround it with bars and Restaurants ( cheap rent) .... and watch the ripple effect !!!
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Post by banksy1art on Mar 4, 2023 14:44:57 GMT
who said it would be instant? It would take at least 6 years but just having a new stadium to look forward to will breed ambition. The city needs a huge project to get some positivity going What about The Etruscan Square Thunder Dome! a fart in a hurricane
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 4, 2023 14:46:17 GMT
What about The Etruscan Square Thunder Dome! a fart in a hurricane It was a joke. A crap one judging by the reaction😉
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Post by banksy1art on Mar 4, 2023 14:48:39 GMT
It was a joke. A crap one judging by the reaction😉 😆
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Post by iamstokie on Mar 4, 2023 14:58:47 GMT
Mate, give it up. You're talking out of your arse. and people wonder why the city is wank, absolutely no ambition or vision. Only in stoke. It’s fuckin embarrassing. I’m embarrassed to live here Move , l love living here and the people are amazing but realistic
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Post by suck_the_mop. on Mar 4, 2023 16:11:51 GMT
So many mistakes made in Stoke , with the town , the football ground , the transport infrastructure , everything , its nigh on impossible to know where to start . Unlike Amsterdam ( the area around Dam Square) or even Manchester , there is no actual town centre . If the planners had said right we are going to clear this land around stoke station ( train links to london , birmingham ,manchester etc ) , we are going to put a new football ground next to it , with a big concourse surround , partially covered ( roofed) which will have a big ( by stoke standards ) market ( with super cheap stalls just to get the traders in )for all sort of non supermarket stuff ( records , farm fresh foods , designer whatever) on non match days , we will have a mixture of wetherspoons / costa coffee big places and some smaller ones. Hand out some music licences , encourage busking , street entertainment, put the cinema / ten pin bowling here , get everyone into this one hub . Make this actual hub a profitable place to trade and a nice place to visit and then over decades try and help the nearest surrounding areas . You would have something ( a vibrant hub ) to build off , somewhere to start from . We have the total opposite , out of town this , out of that ,increasingly bewildered stokies going fxck it , its all to complicated , i am just going to order a load of stuff online and they can deliver it to my door. It's a total mess . Of course , we need solutions , not diagnosis of the problem . But it really is a mess . It's going to be a massive job to even begin to sort the problem out . if the Coates really wanted to they could do this now. Shelton (right next the the station and wedged in between the ‘city centre’ and stoke town centre) is made up of 750-1000 terraced houses. Let’s say they were to buy 1000 houses for 100,000 (however they are more like £80,000) that’s 100 Million pounds to buy all of them, then they would have to have them demolished. A smart new stadium on the site would then cost 100-200 million and there will still be plenty of room for the council to find funding from the government for restaurants, a cinema, new shopping centre/ market, an arena, apartments, offices etc It would still be a lot cheaper than Evertons new 500 Million pound stadium that they are building. It would really help to finally regenerate the city. If we are being honest 300 million is nowt to the Coates Love the optimism but why would the Coates do this? They don't need to the brit is ok just needs running better matchday experience etc, where would all the people living in them houses be moved to? There is already a housing shortage would you expect the Coates to build new houses for them? Why would you want a stadium in shelton hardly great for accessibility and parking we (most) don't travel by train, not having a go admire your optimism and thinking but it just isn't going to happen.
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