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Post by iamstokie on Aug 27, 2022 6:55:56 GMT
Having read Neil’s preferred formation is with a back 4 do we have the full backs to play it
Tymon as good as he is going forward lacks defensively Fox is just Meh Clarke probably his best position Fosu looks more of a winger
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Post by TinkerT on Aug 27, 2022 6:59:48 GMT
When we played them didn't they drop into a 5 when we had the ball then sprung out into a 4 when they did? Could be a option with tymon. Also think fosu would be used wide of the 3 with Campbell or the Leeds lad other side? Just hope he's going be as flexible with formations that we've been told. It's been obvious in at least 2 games this season where we needed change formation, one against Sunderland and one which he did at half time after seeing us having the upper hand. At least it seems he can read a game better than any of our recent managers.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 27, 2022 7:03:24 GMT
How many seasons is it now we’ve failed to get the full back positions right? I genuinely can’t remember the last time we had two solid, dependable full backs with able deputy’s. Or wingbacks for that matter. I suppose it would be the Hughes era🤔
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Post by DC1863 on Aug 27, 2022 7:08:49 GMT
Edwards?
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 27, 2022 7:24:42 GMT
Surely he’ll take a look and at Etebo too if he’s still here when the window closes.
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Post by foxysgloves on Aug 27, 2022 7:32:07 GMT
Full back is a lot easier position than wing back.
We might need a couple of square pegs at times but with a bit of pace and attacking threat in front of them we’d muddle through.
Hard to see how we become a promotion contender this season though.
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Post by gingerninja on Aug 27, 2022 7:36:21 GMT
He had Darnell Fisher at Preston didn't he, very solid full back.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 27, 2022 7:49:58 GMT
We haven't got the players for a back four and it's not just the fullbacks - we don't have the type of DMs that work in front of a back four. In fact all in all we don't have the players for an Alex Neil type side - he will either have to adapt his style or we will have to muddle through this season, right off promotion and restart the rebuild next summer. Our only chance of promotion is with a manager who can get the best out of the current players and the likes of Wilder and Robins look a better bet for that than Neil. That's not a criticism of Neil - we just look nothing like a typical Neil side and with what we have it would be round pegs in square holes.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 27, 2022 7:52:30 GMT
Don’t see why Laurent wouldn’t work as the DM in a 4-2-3-1. He’s played as one in the past.
Suspect Neil might initially stick with a back three until he’s properly assessed the squad anyway.
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Post by gingerninja on Aug 27, 2022 7:53:18 GMT
He will have to be proactive before the window closes then to wheel & deal then to address these issues. Players also have to be adaptable and adjust their styles to fit the teams needs.
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Post by potter1989 on Aug 27, 2022 8:43:15 GMT
Pretty sure he’s bin playing 3412 at Sunderland 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by lagwafis on Aug 27, 2022 8:43:40 GMT
He had Darnell Fisher at Preston didn't he, very solid full back. I did read an article where it ranked Fisher as one of Neil's top three signings for Preston (along with Daniel Iverson on loan from Leicester and Patrick Bauer, the centre half from Charlton) It looks like Fisher is still recovering from a long-term knee injury since signing for Middlesbrough.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 27, 2022 10:03:50 GMT
Don’t see why Laurent wouldn’t work as the DM in a 4-2-3-1. He’s played as one in the past. Suspect Neil might initially stick with a back three until he’s properly assessed the squad anyway. Didn't Reading fans say Laurent's best games were as a box to box midfielder? It would sensible to stick with our current formation and assess the squad but with the window closing the fact remains we simply don't have a squad to play the way Neil usually sets up his sides. O'Neill wouldn't get away with another mid table finish whereas Neil will but the fact is we will be setting squad development back at least a year with this appointment unless Neil can adapt and make 5 at the back work. I'm not saying that because I have a particular preference for 5 at the back but because I don't believe players can just simply switch playing styles - squad building takes time. More than happy to be proved wrong but being realistic I can't see Neil turning us into promotion candidates this season given our current squad and his approach.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 27, 2022 10:12:11 GMT
Don’t see why Laurent wouldn’t work as the DM in a 4-2-3-1. He’s played as one in the past. Suspect Neil might initially stick with a back three until he’s properly assessed the squad anyway. Didn't Reading fans say Laurent's best games were as a box to box midfielder? It would sensible to stick with our current formation and assess the squad but with the window closing the fact remains we simply don't have a squad to play the way Neil usually sets up his sides. O'Neill wouldn't get away with another mid table finish whereas Neil will but the fact is we will be setting squad development back at least a year with this appointment unless Neil can adapt and make 5 at the back work. I'm not saying that because I have a particular preference for 5 at the back but because I don't believe players can just simply switch playing styles - squad building takes time. More than happy to be proved wrong but being realistic I can't see Neil turning us into promotion candidates this season given our current squad and his approach. I think they can switch to be honest, might not happen overnight but professional footballers are capable of doing it - if they weren’t no new manager would have any success anywhere if they changed the system. We definitely need some proper full backs to play it but then again MON was able to make 4-2-3-1 when he first arrived with Smith and BMI work in those roles and neither was an ideal fit - Smith was a fairly bad right back who was better as a wing back and BMI was better at CB. From what I’d read about Laurent his season as a DM was more successful than when he was moved further forward, might be wrong though.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 27, 2022 10:22:42 GMT
I thought of raising this issue yesterday, it is a problem for the new manager assuming he comes.
Edwards is a good idea but, like Tymon, has a weakness defending as is better going forward. Pulis tended to use non FB specialists,like Cameron, when he was stuck for a genuine FB and it worked quite well for him. As I have repeatedly posted, defending is about good team organization, not just individual talent; players need to develop a 6th sense covering each other like Smith and Bloor.
Hughes did the right thing he went out and got genuine FBs, Pieters was his first signing. I think the new manager should do the same; there must be some competent FBs unattached at the moment.
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Post by gawa on Aug 27, 2022 10:33:26 GMT
Been playing a back 5 at Sunderland with wing backs. Even last week when he had three fit centre backs he played a central midfielder there. Also signed a winger in the summer with no wing back experience to play wing back. This is while having fit full backs at Sunderland that could play.
If back 4 is his preference, why play players out of position last week for a back 5?
At Preston he may have liked a back 4. But not sure if thats still the case.
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Post by cvillestokie on Aug 27, 2022 10:38:34 GMT
Clarke and Tymon, when fit. If Brown and Gayle are the wife forwards ahead of them, they will do more than fine. Pace on both sides and a lot of energy as well.
Until then, Thompson and Fosu.
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Post by mickstupp on Aug 27, 2022 10:46:10 GMT
Far too much emphasis seems to be placed on systems and formations. I’d estimate 80% of the division plays with 3/5 at the back. It’s the speed and tempo that we play at which is all wrong. It’s far too slow and passive, particularly at home.
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Post by stokeoptimist on Aug 27, 2022 10:46:32 GMT
I thought Sunderland started with a 4132 formation, TP used to do the same as soon as you lost the ball the 1 and 3 drop back to form 2 banks of 4. Surely depends on the players abilities though, he might think he's got more options at Stoke. Also as an out and out fullback I thought Duhaney did ok defensively.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2022 10:47:39 GMT
Clarke and Tymon, when fit. If Brown and Gayle are the wife forwards ahead of them, they will do more than fine. Pace on both sides and a lot of energy as well. Until then, Thompson and Fosu. We could alternate Gayle and Brown on the flanks and be wife swappers
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 27, 2022 10:51:05 GMT
Far too much emphasis seems to be placed on systems and formations. I’d estimate 80% of the division plays with 3/5 at the back. It’s the speed and tempo that we play at which is all wrong. It’s far too slow and passive, particularly at home. Doesn’t the fact that they play with 3/5 at the back rather demonstrate that systems and formations are important? Otherwise wouldn’t everyone just play 442 still?
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Post by iamstokie on Aug 27, 2022 11:04:17 GMT
Far too much emphasis seems to be placed on systems and formations. I’d estimate 80% of the division plays with 3/5 at the back. It’s the speed and tempo that we play at which is all wrong. It’s far too slow and passive, particularly at home. Totally agree , it’s wasn’t MoNs 3 at the back that was the problem , it was his style of play
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Aug 27, 2022 11:19:47 GMT
Tymon can’t play left back is as big an Oatcake myth as Bojan was shit after his injury!
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Post by wherty on Aug 27, 2022 11:30:41 GMT
Probably use Wilmot as RB if he plays a back 4.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 27, 2022 16:11:20 GMT
Surely an opportunity has opened up today for Edwards based on what the new manager saw today.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 27, 2022 16:13:06 GMT
Edwards needs to play.
We need to sign another right back too.
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Post by gingerninja on Aug 27, 2022 16:32:40 GMT
After today Wherty, I wouldn't play Wilmot at right back 😳
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 27, 2022 16:36:33 GMT
Edwards needs to play. We need to sign another right back too. I think Clarke will be sound at right back.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 27, 2022 16:38:21 GMT
Edwards needs to play. We need to sign another right back too. I think Clarke will be sound at right back. I forgot about him, not gonna lie!
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Post by biddulphchav on Aug 27, 2022 16:38:36 GMT
After today Wherty, I wouldn't play Wilmot at right back 😳 Blackburn overload their left side, so Wilmot had a lot to do today. Clucas was anonymous as usual and Holden didn’t help by taking him off and having Kilkenny help him out. Either that or Brown off and Fosu ahead of Wilmot. Either way I think Wilmot can do a job there, he won’t get many tougher games than that and showed a decent turn of pace. I actually think he could do alright as a defensive midfielder too
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