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Post by Bera’s Beano on Aug 5, 2022 8:30:25 GMT
I was thinking with the possibilities of Clarke and Delap, and the fact that I think a majority of fans would rather do away with the 3-5-2 (5-3-2) formation, we can have a hypothetic debate on the best way for us to line up if all went well before August 31st
I would say that we look to go 4-3-3 and try to beat teams instead of hoping not to lose.
Gayle--Delap--Campbell
-Baker-Powell-Laurent-
Tymon-Clarke-Taylor-Clarke
(Souttar)
-------Bursik
Tymon will surely have the capabilites to play left back at some point, I know 2 centre backs is a little risky if they aren't particularly fast, and Clarke at right back isn't much fun but it should suffice.
I haven't seen much of Laurent but I'd have thought between that 3 with Powell more advanced we should be good enough to best any midfield in there as long as those 3 put the effort in that is required.
Front 3 with Gayle and Campbell cutting in and Delap leading the line should definitely be potent enough with Powell in behind. Brown is a perfectly good cover for any of the front 3 positions and can keep those 3 firmly on their toes for losing their place.
Young lads have clear options for routes into the first team and we can still look to improve the wide options if we had the choice.
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Post by chad on Aug 5, 2022 8:33:18 GMT
On paper that front three is as good as gets in this League
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Post by gawa on Aug 5, 2022 8:35:24 GMT
For me id love to see more flexibility from the manager. We're now allowed 5 substitutes in game so no reason why we can't change formation midway through games too.
Like yourself I'd prefer a back 4 too but not sure how comfortable Taylor would be in one. Going by his debut, more than comfortable but that it is just one game.
I think if we were to get Clarke then we will have a real debate on our hands when Souttar returns.
So personally 5 at the back doesn't bother me as an option or even starting formation. Providing that three is a plan B and alternative option in place. No reason why we can't go between multiple formations like we used to under O'Neil.
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Post by shrewspotter on Aug 5, 2022 8:36:53 GMT
I was thinking with the possibilities of Clarke and Delap, and the fact that I think a majority of fans would rather do away with the 3-5-2 (5-3-2) formation, we can have a hypothetic debate on the best way for us to line up if all went well before August 31st I would say that we look to go 4-3-3 and try to beat teams instead of hoping not to lose. Gayle--Delap--Campbell -Baker-Powell-Laurent- Tymon-Clarke-Taylor-Clarke (Souttar) -------Bursik Tymon will surely have the capabilites to play left back at some point, I know 2 centre backs is a little risky if they aren't particularly fast, and Clarke at right back isn't much fun but it should suffice. I haven't seen much of Laurent but I'd have thought between that 3 with Powell more advanced we should be good enough to best any midfield in there as long as those 3 put the effort in that is required. Front 3 with Gayle and Campbell cutting in and Delap leading the line should definitely be potent enough with Powell in behind. Brown is a perfectly good cover for any of the front 3 positions and can keep those 3 firmly on their toes for losing their place. Young lads have clear options for routes into the first team and we can still look to improve the wide options if we had the choice. Reading snippets that I have involving Matt Clarke, it understood he is better in a 3/5 at the back. With that in mind it is clear that O'Neil will be going for the back 3/5 all season I am afraid |
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Post by Waggy on Aug 5, 2022 8:38:40 GMT
On paper that front three is as good as gets in this League Certainly is |
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 5, 2022 8:41:40 GMT
I was thinking with the possibilities of Clarke and Delap, and the fact that I think a majority of fans would rather do away with the 3-5-2 (5-3-2) formation, we can have a hypothetic debate on the best way for us to line up if all went well before August 31st I would say that we look to go 4-3-3 and try to beat teams instead of hoping not to lose. Gayle--Delap--Campbell -Baker-Powell-Laurent- Tymon-Clarke-Taylor-Clarke (Souttar) -------Bursik Tymon will surely have the capabilites to play left back at some point, I know 2 centre backs is a little risky if they aren't particularly fast, and Clarke at right back isn't much fun but it should suffice. I haven't seen much of Laurent but I'd have thought between that 3 with Powell more advanced we should be good enough to best any midfield in there as long as those 3 put the effort in that is required. Front 3 with Gayle and Campbell cutting in and Delap leading the line should definitely be potent enough with Powell in behind. Brown is a perfectly good cover for any of the front 3 positions and can keep those 3 firmly on their toes for losing their place. Young lads have clear options for routes into the first team and we can still look to improve the wide options if we had the choice. That is pretty similar to what I’d suggested before the Clarke rumours, had Jagielka in for Clarke and Smallbone in for Powell as he’s injured. I’m confident it would work as long as the midfield was given structure by designating roles which MON seems to refuse to do. Just instruct Laurent to sit and Baker to play a box to box role or vice versa. Just telling them to do a bit of everything and share the responsibility doesn’t work Mikey. |
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Aug 5, 2022 8:43:31 GMT
I was thinking with the possibilities of Clarke and Delap, and the fact that I think a majority of fans would rather do away with the 3-5-2 (5-3-2) formation, we can have a hypothetic debate on the best way for us to line up if all went well before August 31st I would say that we look to go 4-3-3 and try to beat teams instead of hoping not to lose. Gayle--Delap--Campbell -Baker-Powell-Laurent- Tymon-Clarke-Taylor-Clarke (Souttar) -------Bursik Tymon will surely have the capabilites to play left back at some point, I know 2 centre backs is a little risky if they aren't particularly fast, and Clarke at right back isn't much fun but it should suffice. I haven't seen much of Laurent but I'd have thought between that 3 with Powell more advanced we should be good enough to best any midfield in there as long as those 3 put the effort in that is required. Front 3 with Gayle and Campbell cutting in and Delap leading the line should definitely be potent enough with Powell in behind. Brown is a perfectly good cover for any of the front 3 positions and can keep those 3 firmly on their toes for losing their place. Young lads have clear options for routes into the first team and we can still look to improve the wide options if we had the choice. Reading snippets that I have involving Matt Clarke, it understood he is better in a 3/5 at the back. With that in mind it is clear that O'Neil will be going for the back 3/5 all season I am afraid I'm aware that O'Neill isn't changing from a back 3/5 anytime soon, one of the reasons he won't succeed going forward and certainly won't win the fans back with negativity and a lack of willingness to change it. I believe that a centre back can easily play in a back 4 if they are positioned correctly, have a man covering in front of them which Laurent or Baker can do between them as needed, and that they have at least a little pace and awareness. I didn't watch the Millwall game so can't judge first hand off that but if Clarke is winning player of the year everywhere he goes, he must have the ability and willingness. Taylor looks very comfortable and I'm happy for him to make mistakes as a young lad thrown in. When Souttar gets back, we can then keep all 3 fresh easily and have great options if the 3 at the back is required. We just don't have the players to play 3-5-2. Tymon, although better than he used to be, isn't good enough and his final ball is lacking. We don't have a RWB and Clarke certainly isn't one, Duhaney is a joke and I haven't seen much of Sparrow so can't judge that. |
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Post by MilanStokie on Aug 5, 2022 8:47:39 GMT
Reading snippets that I have involving Matt Clarke, it understood he is better in a 3/5 at the back. With that in mind it is clear that O'Neil will be going for the back 3/5 all season I am afraid I'm aware that O'Neill isn't changing from a back 3/5 anytime soon, one of the reasons he won't succeed going forward and certainly won't win the fans back with negativity and a lack of willingness to change it. I believe that a centre back can easily play in a back 4 if they are positioned correctly, have a man covering in front of them which Laurent or Baker can do between them as needed, and that they have at least a little pace and awareness. I didn't watch the Millwall game so can't judge first hand off that but if Clarke is winning player of the year everywhere he goes, he must have the ability and willingness. Taylor looks very comfortable and I'm happy for him to make mistakes as a young lad thrown in. When Souttar gets back, we can then keep all 3 fresh easily and have great options if the 3 at the back is required. We just don't have the players to play 3-5-2. Tymon, although better than he used to be, isn't good enough and his final ball is lacking. We don't have a RWB and Clarke certainly isn't one, Duhaney is a joke and I haven't seen much of Sparrow so can't judge that. We will only miss a RWB to make 3-5-2 work, trusting M.Clarke signs. The problem is the approach isn't working. The formation absolutely CAN work if done right, hence many teams using it across the continent. We definitely do not have a squad to make 4 at the back work anymore than a few games. What you say about Tymon is just 100% false. His final ball is fine, it's our excuses of forwards that can't/won't get into the right place. |
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 5, 2022 8:56:25 GMT
Come hell or high water, he's going 5 at the back.
............................Bursik...................................
...........................Bonham.................................
...........................Fielding.................................
Edwards....Wilmot....Souttar.....M.Clarke.........Tymon
Duhaney...H.Clarke...Flint.............Fox...............McCarron
.............................Jageilka....................................
..............................Taylor......................................
..................Baker..............Laurent................
.................Thompson........Kilkenny................
.................Clucas
.............................Smallbone.............................
.............................Powell...................................
..................Delap......Gayle
.........................................Campbell
.........................................Brown
.........................................DWP
To be honest, this just shows the atrocious squad management. We have no right wing-back to speak of, 3 'back up' goalkeepers, 4 players who can play centrally at the back but no natural LCB, Clucas still on the books being neither use nor ornament, 4 strikers vying for one role but no one to partner any of them...it's an absolute clusterfuck.
The most crucial signing for this system was the RWB. We signed a defensive full-back/RCB and our one proper half-decent RWB is still on the naughty step in the MSL.
We've needed a LCB for sometime- we signed Aiden Flint, despite already having Jageilka and Taylor to play in the centre in Souttar's absence.
Why we let Forrester go rather than use him as back up RCB to Wilmot I have no idea.
The striker situation is a joke. We didn't need Gayle, yet now risk pissing off three young strikers with potential who all need to play alongside a target man. We've put all our eggs in the Delap basket, but should really have signed two more physical types- one a first choice, one a back up.
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Post by retrostoke on Aug 5, 2022 9:01:36 GMT
Smallbone will prove to be a better player than Powell
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Post by gawa on Aug 5, 2022 9:04:46 GMT
The most crucial signing for this system was the RWB. We signed a defensive full-back/RCB and our one proper half-decent RWB is still on the naughty step in the MSL. The RCB you speak of in Clark has barely played RCB since last September. He's played LM as much. The MLS RWB you speak of has predominantly played RCB in the last 2 seasons. |
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Post by stokiemac on Aug 5, 2022 9:07:44 GMT
4231 already better than our 532 even without the potential signings
Bursik
H.Clarke Taylor/Clarke Souttar Tymon
Laurent Baker
Campbell Smallbone Brown
Delap/Gayle
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 5, 2022 9:12:21 GMT
The most crucial signing for this system was the RWB. We signed a defensive full-back/RCB and our one proper half-decent RWB is still on the naughty step in the MSL. The RCB you speak of in Clark has barely played RCB since last September. He's played LM as much. The MLS RWB you speak of has predominantly played RCB in the last 2 seasons. Wherever he's played previously, it nevertheless looks like folly to effectively hinge the entire system on someone so inexperienced. The lad may turn out to be a very good player but he's the only game in town for one of the most important roles in the team, so we're hamstrung if he isn't. |
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Post by MilanStokie on Aug 5, 2022 9:12:49 GMT
4231 already better than our 532 even without the potential signings Bursik H.Clarke Taylor/Clarke Souttar Tymon Laurent Baker Campbell Smallbone Brown Delap/Gayle Not a feasible option other than if we are desperate. We only realistically have one backup player to any of that front 4. Meanwhile, 4 CBs sit on their arse doing nothing. |
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Post by Veritas on Aug 5, 2022 9:14:02 GMT
On paper that front three is as good as gets in this League It depends on your view, on here it will be either Proven goalscorer, future England centre forward, great finisher Or Past his best, unproven, lazy and inconsistent |
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Post by DC1863 on Aug 5, 2022 9:16:32 GMT
Bursik
Taylor Jags Wilmot
Clarke Laurent Smallbone Baker Tymon
Gayle Brown
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 5, 2022 9:18:39 GMT
The most crucial signing for this system was the RWB. We signed a defensive full-back/RCB and our one proper half-decent RWB is still on the naughty step in the MSL. The RCB you speak of in Clark has barely played RCB since last September. He's played LM as much. The MLS RWB you speak of has predominantly played RCB in the last 2 seasons. We've seen that Edwards can play there though. Wherever he's played for NY, he's still our best option for RWB. No chance MON is going to back down though. Edwards is finished here. |
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Post by gawa on Aug 5, 2022 9:28:09 GMT
The RCB you speak of in Clark has barely played RCB since last September. He's played LM as much. The MLS RWB you speak of has predominantly played RCB in the last 2 seasons. Wherever he's played previously, it nevertheless looks like folly to effectively hinge the entire system on someone so inexperienced. The lad may turn out to be a very good player but he's the only game in town for one of the most important roles in the team, so we're hamstrung if he isn't. I agree it's a lot of pressure on a bit of an unknown entity and lack of competition too. I don't agree that he's a RCB though, he sees himself as more of a full back. And I believe he signed knowing this is where he would be played. Could certainly do with more competiton. |
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 5, 2022 9:31:48 GMT
The most crucial signing for this system was the RWB. We signed a defensive full-back/RCB and our one proper half-decent RWB is still on the naughty step in the MSL. The RCB you speak of in Clark has barely played RCB since last September. He's played LM as much. The MLS RWB you speak of has predominantly played RCB in the last 2 seasons. All that time wow(since last September). He's a player who's been considered a CB for much of his footballing life. Have you ever heard of a single successful transition from CB to winger? Once you've answered that question maybe start asking yourself why he's our first choice RWB. CB's normal transition would be to FB/DM where was that flying winger hidden in him all that time? |
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Post by gawa on Aug 5, 2022 9:51:30 GMT
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 5, 2022 9:58:03 GMT
We don't deploy a RB we deploy a RWB which involves the attributes of a winger. Now when was a player worthy of consideration as a CB and one worthy of selection as a winger anything like the same sort of player? |
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Post by Caddick988 on Aug 5, 2022 10:08:47 GMT
I think my biggest issue with possible line ups is the fact we don't have an out and out left sided winger/forward. I've seen people suggest we put Gayle or Brown out there but I think Gayle should only really be considered through the middle and Brown could play either through the middle or on the right. So unless we sign someone like we did JPB on loan or Wright-Phillips could play out there I think we have to stick with the 3-5-2.
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Post by gawa on Aug 5, 2022 10:22:53 GMT
We don't deploy a RB we deploy a RWB which involves the attributes of a winger. Now when was a player worthy of consideration as a CB and one worthy of selection as a winger anything like the same sort of player? I used RB for shorthand. If you open the article from oldham you can see he talks about playing at RWB. I suspect he was also more of an attacking wing back in Scotland given he also played a few games in left midfield as a winger. Please just have a look at this highlights from Oldham. Does this look like someone who was only been deployed as a cb and no attributes to be a winger: Or how about read this thread on the rangers forum - www.followfollow.com/forum/threads/harry-clarke-arsenal-player-on-loan-at-ross-county.183976/There is so much evidence out there which shows him playing as a right back/wing back and doing a bloody good job at it. But because you went to transfermarket.com and seen "centre back" listed next to his name that was your mind made up. The people who have actually spent time watching the player see him as a rapid attacking full back. You see him as a centre back because you read the word next to his name... |
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Post by lordb on Aug 5, 2022 10:30:31 GMT
We don't deploy a RB we deploy a RWB which involves the attributes of a winger. Now when was a player worthy of consideration as a CB and one worthy of selection as a winger anything like the same sort of player? I used RB for shorthand. If you open the article from oldham you can see he talks about playing at RWB. I suspect he was also more of an attacking wing back in Scotland given he also played a few games in left midfield as a winger. Please just have a look at this highlights from Oldham. Does this look like someone who was only been deployed as a cb and no attributes to be a winger: Or how about read this thread on the rangers forum - www.followfollow.com/forum/threads/harry-clarke-arsenal-player-on-loan-at-ross-county.183976/There is so much evidence out there which shows him playing as a right back/wing back and doing a bloody good job at it. But because you went to transfermarket.com and seen "centre back" listed next to his name that was your mind made up. The people who have actually spent time watching the player see him as a rapid attacking full back. You see him as a centre back because you read the word next to his name... having now watched him I can't see him at CB in a back 4, in a 3 maybe he certainly looks like a RB He actually got himself up the pitch at Millwall but didn't take his man on & not much in the way of crosses, he has to do both of those regularly He certainly locks combative Along with the other defenders he was badly at fault for the second goal Home game next, if Blackpool are tentative then good chance for him to show he can be an attacking RWB & not just a defender |
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Aug 5, 2022 10:30:59 GMT
We don't deploy a RB we deploy a RWB which involves the attributes of a winger. Now when was a player worthy of consideration as a CB and one worthy of selection as a winger anything like the same sort of player? I used RB for shorthand. If you open the article from oldham you can see he talks about playing at RWB. I suspect he was also more of an attacking wing back in Scotland given he also played a few games in left midfield as a winger. Please just have a look at this highlights from Oldham. Does this look like someone who was only been deployed as a cb and no attributes to be a winger: Or how about read this thread on the rangers forum - www.followfollow.com/forum/threads/harry-clarke-arsenal-player-on-loan-at-ross-county.183976/There is so much evidence out there which shows him playing as a right back/wing back and doing a bloody good job at it. But because you went to transfermarket.com and seen "centre back" listed next to his name that was your mind made up. The people who have actually spent time watching the player see him as a rapid attacking full back. You see him as a centre back because you read the word next to his name... I'll go on what I see in a Stoke shirt thanks so far nothing to suggest he has any attributes of a winger whatsoever. I've purposely avoided watching clips of Delap for the same reason I've literally never seen him kick a ball. Live matches or nothing for me when it comes to judging a player. |
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Post by gawa on Aug 5, 2022 10:38:42 GMT
I used RB for shorthand. If you open the article from oldham you can see he talks about playing at RWB. I suspect he was also more of an attacking wing back in Scotland given he also played a few games in left midfield as a winger. Please just have a look at this highlights from Oldham. Does this look like someone who was only been deployed as a cb and no attributes to be a winger: Or how about read this thread on the rangers forum - www.followfollow.com/forum/threads/harry-clarke-arsenal-player-on-loan-at-ross-county.183976/There is so much evidence out there which shows him playing as a right back/wing back and doing a bloody good job at it. But because you went to transfermarket.com and seen "centre back" listed next to his name that was your mind made up. The people who have actually spent time watching the player see him as a rapid attacking full back. You see him as a centre back because you read the word next to his name... I'll go on what I see in a Stoke shirt thanks so far nothing to suggest he has any attributes of a winger whatsoever. I've purposely avoided watching clips of Delap for the same reason I've literally never seen him kick a ball. Live matches or nothing for me when it comes to judging a player. I agree with you there. And I feel one competitive game against Millwall isn't enough to conclude he's a centre back that is incapable of playing as a right wing back. I'm going full bayern on this one. Clark is my verlinden. I have faith. Hopefully he smashes it at Blackpool. |
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Post by gawa on Aug 5, 2022 10:43:34 GMT
I used RB for shorthand. If you open the article from oldham you can see he talks about playing at RWB. I suspect he was also more of an attacking wing back in Scotland given he also played a few games in left midfield as a winger. Please just have a look at this highlights from Oldham. Does this look like someone who was only been deployed as a cb and no attributes to be a winger: Or how about read this thread on the rangers forum - www.followfollow.com/forum/threads/harry-clarke-arsenal-player-on-loan-at-ross-county.183976/There is so much evidence out there which shows him playing as a right back/wing back and doing a bloody good job at it. But because you went to transfermarket.com and seen "centre back" listed next to his name that was your mind made up. The people who have actually spent time watching the player see him as a rapid attacking full back. You see him as a centre back because you read the word next to his name... having now watched him I can't see him at CB in a back 4, in a 3 maybe he certainly looks like a RB He actually got himself up the pitch at Millwall but didn't take his man on & not much in the way of crosses, he has to do both of those regularly He certainly locks combative Along with the other defenders he was badly at fault for the second goal Home game next, if Blackpool are tentative then good chance for him to show he can be an attacking RWB & not just a defender There is certainly room for improvement but there were some good glimpses of what he can do against Millwall. And he did grow in confidence and try to take his man on a few times, remember he even tried a cheeky nutmeg at one point. He wasn't shy in getting forward either and think he provided the pass for Campbells shot which was our best chance of the game. He might not turn good. But I don't agree with everyone writing him off so soon and saying he's a centre back being played out of position. I think he could be one of our players of the season when he gets going. |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Aug 5, 2022 11:03:51 GMT
On paper that front three is as good as gets in this League Certainly is If they are fed. |
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Aug 5, 2022 11:35:59 GMT
Smallbone will prove to be a better player than Powell I've not seen anything of him but he's rated as such. Do you reckon he'll be better than Powell at any point this season or in the future? |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Aug 5, 2022 11:39:03 GMT
Smallbone will prove to be a better player than Powell I've not seen anything of him but he's rated as such. Do you reckon he'll be better than Powell at any point this season or in the future? Well he is rated Premiership class, Powell isn't. |
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