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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 12, 2022 15:39:43 GMT
Some of the photos being released today are amazing. I'm no space nerd so you'll have to forgive me if I get any of the names wrong but this thing is apparently called the 'Cosmic Cliffs' or 'Carina Nebula' and this was the old image we had from the Hubble Telescope, which itself is an amazing photo... And this is the new image from the Webb Telescope and holy shit!
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Post by lordb on Jul 12, 2022 16:28:33 GMT
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Post by butlerstbob on Jul 12, 2022 21:59:15 GMT
Absolutely mindblowingly stunning... And to think the picture is of something that happened 13 billion years ago! How the actual?! Amazing in every sense👍👌 and again... Blows my mind😁
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Post by FbrgVaStkFan on Jul 13, 2022 0:46:29 GMT
Beautiful and humbling. Take a look at all the items in the background of the Stephan’s Quintet image. They're almost all galaxies. Can't even grasp the scale or quantities of it all.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 1:40:40 GMT
Beautiful and humbling. Take a look at all the items in the background of the Stephan’s Quintet image. They're almost all galaxies. Can't even grasp the scale or quantities of it all. Yep when you zoom in (even on shitty iPhone) you can make out the distinctive galactic shapes, each containing 100s of billions stars at least. It’s hard to believe reality is real.
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Post by clarkeda on Jul 13, 2022 7:06:23 GMT
Beautiful and humbling. Take a look at all the items in the background of the Stephan’s Quintet image. They're almost all galaxies. Can't even grasp the scale or quantities of it all. Yep when you zoom in (even on shitty iPhone) you can make out the distinctive galactic shapes, each containing 100s of billions stars at least. It’s hard to believe reality is real. And people think we’re the only living life form out there. Not to take it off on a tangent but what I think is more likely is if other life forms did come to earth, we’re not ‘advanced’ enough to process them (we only tend to worth with life form Structures and genetic make up we know)
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Post by questionable on Jul 13, 2022 7:23:09 GMT
Yep when you zoom in (even on shitty iPhone) you can make out the distinctive galactic shapes, each containing 100s of billions stars at least. It’s hard to believe reality is real. And people think we’re the only living life form out there. Not to take it off on a tangent but what I think is more likely is if other life forms did come to earth, we’re not ‘advanced’ enough to process them (we only tend to worth with life form Structures and genetic make up we know) Can you imagine if first contact happened to be in Burslem, you can see it now the locals would hurl bricks towards them.
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jul 13, 2022 7:33:50 GMT
And people think we’re the only living life form out there. Not to take it off on a tangent but what I think is more likely is if other life forms did come to earth, we’re not ‘advanced’ enough to process them (we only tend to worth with life form Structures and genetic make up we know) Can you imagine if first contact happened to be in Burslem, you can see it now the locals would hurl bricks towards them. "Greetings earthling".
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Post by superjw on Jul 13, 2022 7:34:44 GMT
Yep when you zoom in (even on shitty iPhone) you can make out the distinctive galactic shapes, each containing 100s of billions stars at least. It’s hard to believe reality is real. And people think we’re the only living life form out there. Not to take it off on a tangent but what I think is more likely is if other life forms did come to earth, we’re not ‘advanced’ enough to process them (we only tend to worth with life form Structures and genetic make up we know) At this point it's almost a mathematical impossibility that we are the only planet with life. Let's face it, our closest neighbour Mars had oceans and rivers at a time when the earth was young - I'm certain mars once had life for a short while. I heard a theory that because of the vastness of the universe and the endless possibilities, there could be a virtual carbon copy of earth out there!
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Post by flea79 on Jul 13, 2022 8:40:24 GMT
And people think we’re the only living life form out there. Not to take it off on a tangent but what I think is more likely is if other life forms did come to earth, we’re not ‘advanced’ enough to process them (we only tend to worth with life form Structures and genetic make up we know) At this point it's almost a mathematical impossibility that we are the only planet with life. Let's face it, our closest neighbour Mars had oceans and rivers at a time when the earth was young - I'm certain mars once had life for a short while. I heard a theory that because of the vastness of the universe and the endless possibilities, there could be a virtual carbon copy of earth out there! when you consider the vastness of space and look at those images with all that light you realise how small and insignificant we are and how foolish it would be too presume we are alone in the universe we only look for life in terms that we understand i.e. carbon based we are only just beginning to realise how little we know
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Post by superjw on Jul 13, 2022 8:59:56 GMT
At this point it's almost a mathematical impossibility that we are the only planet with life. Let's face it, our closest neighbour Mars had oceans and rivers at a time when the earth was young - I'm certain mars once had life for a short while. I heard a theory that because of the vastness of the universe and the endless possibilities, there could be a virtual carbon copy of earth out there! when you consider the vastness of space and look at those images with all that light you realise how small and insignificant we are and how foolish it would be too presume we are alone in the universe we only look for life in terms that we understand i.e. carbon based we are only just beginning to realise how little we know Absolutely, it's just arrogance at this point when people think we are some kind of special and a one off. It all amazes me, the power and size involved is incredible
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Post by eddyclamp on Jul 13, 2022 9:06:28 GMT
have they found a Lancaster bomber on one of those stars yet?
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Post by flea79 on Jul 13, 2022 10:30:38 GMT
when you consider the vastness of space and look at those images with all that light you realise how small and insignificant we are and how foolish it would be too presume we are alone in the universe we only look for life in terms that we understand i.e. carbon based we are only just beginning to realise how little we know Absolutely, it's just arrogance at this point when people think we are some kind of special and a one off. It all amazes me, the power and size involved is incredible it is actually beyond comprehension too consider the size of the universe we just cant begin to get past the concept of infinity, sure maths goes some way too defining it but the understanding is beyond us personally i carry a towel with me wherever I go now and am ready to thumb a lift at a moments notice
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 12:58:35 GMT
The Fermi Paradox is real though. Our Galaxy alone is about 100k light years across (one of an estimated 2 trillion in the observable universe (it’s speculated the observable universe is just a tiny fraction of the size of the actual universe (which may itself be infinite))) so if our technological civilisation was about 100k years older then it would be theoretically possible for aliens with sufficiently powerful telescopes to detect our technosignatures from anywhere in the galaxy by being able to analyse our atmosphere and, even if about 100k light years away but looking in our direction 100k years in the future so seeing our planet as it is currently, being able to detect unnatural CFCs in our atmosphere and knowing for sure there is advanced industrialisation on our planet.
And yet we haven’t found any (definite) evidence of technosignatures. Although we’re still very early days into the hunt - it was only the 90s we confirmed exoplanets exist around other stars and I still think we’re a way off being able to do analysis of the atmospheres of distant exoplanets. SETI has only been looking for radio signals since the 70s I believe. So I can’t get down with people who think we are alone. I suspect it displays some misunderstanding as to the vastness of it all. Like taking a cup of water out of the ocean, looking inside and declaring there are no whales.
There’s been a few spooky glimpses though of potential technosignatures. The WOW! Signal is one of the more famous ones (which never repeated) but there have been other tantalising radio signals (that never repeated this couldn’t be confirmed as proof of extraterrestrial intelligence) and a few stars showing hard to explain periodic dips in light that could be signs of a far advanced civilisation using Dyson spheres/swarms to harness that stars energy more effectively.
My suspicion is that the universe is teeming with microbial life (such as that which potentially exists in the clouds of Venus and may be confirmed beyond doubt in our lifetimes) and maybe even that more complex life is common, and intelligent life is common too. But intelligent technological life is rare. Because technological civilisation is not an inevitable consequence of intelligence. Take our own planet for example, which we share with many other species that are intelligent; the most obvious being orcas which are so intelligent that they have culture and complex familial structure. There are hunting techniques used by specific pods and seen in no others, that a creative individual imagined and that is now passed down through subsequent generations of that specific individual’s descendants (culture) and they’re the only other species where grandmothers essentially babysit their grandchildren. And yet, existing in the ocean where harnessing fire is close to impossible (the first step to technological civilisation) there is no reason to suspect that the intelligence of killer whales will ever lead to them producing radio signals. And this might be a common story across the universe.
We also might just be extremely early in the game, which is quite a bizarre thought. The universe is about 14 billion years old. So it’s strange to think of it as young, but it is. It’s still a baby. There are smaller, slower burning red dwarf stars that will live for trillions of years compared to the shorter lifespan of our own. And so it follows that maybe there will be an explosion of technological intelligence across the universe far into the future, but at this point, humans are one of the first. And it took us 300k or so years to go from harnessing fire to radio technology. There’s a lot that could go wrong in that time and end the existence of a species and prevent reaching sufficient advancement to produce those signals. And then you have to consider that we’ve only had the capacity to annihilate ourselves for a very short period of time too. Maybe a great filter exists across the universe, and many reach this point, the barely any survive for long past it. Maybe we will start to find many worlds showing signs of life-ending environmental catastrophe or nuclear destruction. It’s a depressing but pertinent thought given the current global situation with Russia flexing their nuclear muscles.
Honestly I think this is one of the most fascinating subjects. It makes my ears steam.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 14:42:35 GMT
Those pictures are out of this world.
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Post by marylandstoke on Jul 13, 2022 17:09:59 GMT
Absolutely, it's just arrogance at this point when people think we are some kind of special and a one off. It all amazes me, the power and size involved is incredible it is actually beyond comprehension too consider the size of the universe we just cant begin to get past the concept of infinity, sure maths goes some way too defining it but the understanding is beyond us personally i carry a towel with me wherever I go now and am ready to thumb a lift at a moments notice Thanks for all the fish.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 17:35:48 GMT
Makes you wonder why they make so much effort to come here just to anal probe hillbillies
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Post by clarkeda on Jul 13, 2022 19:00:53 GMT
And people think we’re the only living life form out there. Not to take it off on a tangent but what I think is more likely is if other life forms did come to earth, we’re not ‘advanced’ enough to process them (we only tend to worth with life form Structures and genetic make up we know) At this point it's almost a mathematical impossibility that we are the only planet with life. Let's face it, our closest neighbour Mars had oceans and rivers at a time when the earth was young - I'm certain mars once had life for a short while. I heard a theory that because of the vastness of the universe and the endless possibilities, there could be a virtual carbon copy of earth out there! Interesting, I wouldn’t be holy surprised, like you say it’s pretty much mathematically impossible that there isn’t ‘something’ out there. Interesting about another ‘earth’ too, reckon it’s totally independent planet or ‘another dimension’?
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Post by clarkeda on Jul 13, 2022 19:01:39 GMT
At this point it's almost a mathematical impossibility that we are the only planet with life. Let's face it, our closest neighbour Mars had oceans and rivers at a time when the earth was young - I'm certain mars once had life for a short while. I heard a theory that because of the vastness of the universe and the endless possibilities, there could be a virtual carbon copy of earth out there! when you consider the vastness of space and look at those images with all that light you realise how small and insignificant we are and how foolish it would be too presume we are alone in the universe we only look for life in terms that we understand i.e. carbon based we are only just beginning to realise how little we know Exactly my point, it’s pretty bonkers when you think about it. And I’m certain, they’ve already found us before we’ve come close to finding them.
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Post by Widget123 on Jul 14, 2022 0:00:54 GMT
Extending stokiepmre89 really good post there are a few further things to consider on the Fermi Paradox.
Taking the idea that life could exist else where it might not necessarily be space faring life. Take the non-avian dinosaur extinction event for example, if they hadn't been wiped out in a presumed meteor strike they'd probably still be roaming around in some form. Likely much smaller given the oxygen reduction on Earth since their time. Life as we know it, as humans, may simply have never evolved. The Dinosaurs were the dominant species on Earth for some ~175 million years give or take.
One of the other theories is that life, at least the opportunity for intelligent life is very very very slim. Requiring a set of circumstances so balanced that even a across a billion trillion rolls of the dice it plays out correctly so rarely that those eventual lucky rolls are so vastly separated by time and space that they will never have the chance to meet. If indeed the "Goldilocks" dice roll is ever achieved. (This being assumed to be a suitable planet, around a suitable star, with liquid water (or similar), a protective environment (a moon, a large local planet attracting danger (such as jupiter), orbital regulatory, undisturbed galaxy, etc)
It'll be fascinating to see what else Webb throws up over the next decade. And whether any of the answers to the Paradox potentially have some answers or weaknesses.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 14, 2022 7:28:49 GMT
At this point it's almost a mathematical impossibility that we are the only planet with life. Let's face it, our closest neighbour Mars had oceans and rivers at a time when the earth was young - I'm certain mars once had life for a short while. I heard a theory that because of the vastness of the universe and the endless possibilities, there could be a virtual carbon copy of earth out there! when you consider the vastness of space and look at those images with all that light you realise how small and insignificant we are and how foolish it would be too presume we are alone in the universe we only look for life in terms that we understand i.e. carbon based we are only just beginning to realise how little we know It probably would be carbon based if the physics that apply to our part of the universe apply to all of it. It's assumed that they do. If you assume that life can only evolve in a very limited set of biological, chemical and physical parameters, such as those on Earth (otherwise life would be everywhere), then it's really quite likely that similar other planets would have organisms that fly, swim, burrow and grow and that we'd recognise them as 'similar' to our own. They wouldn't be clouds of energy or based on other elements like iron or crystalline or something entirely different because the physics/chemistry and biology doesn't allow for life to proceed like that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2022 12:03:08 GMT
when you consider the vastness of space and look at those images with all that light you realise how small and insignificant we are and how foolish it would be too presume we are alone in the universe we only look for life in terms that we understand i.e. carbon based we are only just beginning to realise how little we know It probably would be carbon based if the physics that apply to our part of the universe apply to all of it. It's assumed that they do. If you assume that life can only evolve in a very limited set of biological, chemical and physical parameters, such as those on Earth (otherwise life would be everywhere), then it's really quite likely that similar other planets would have organisms that fly, swim, burrow and grow and that we'd recognise them as 'similar' to our own. They wouldn't be clouds of energy or based on other elements like iron or crystalline or something entirely different because the physics/chemistry and biology doesn't allow for life to proceed like that. I only have a vague superficial understanding of organic chemistry but I believe there are theories for non-carbon based life that could exist in the oceans of titan - which has a surface temperature of minus 170 Celsius or so, and liquid lakes of ethane/methane. And other theories of silicone based life. And then theories that the ice shell moons with their vast sub-surface oceans could possess thermal-vent oasis’s for life - similar to the ones found at the bottom of our own oceans. Another potential explanation for the Fermi paradox is that these ice-shell moons could in fact be the best places for complex life, and so even if intelligence evolves in these environments, it exists eternally locked into those worlds and never even gains knowledge of the universe beyond. It’s crazy to think about actually and seems fertile ground for some science fiction novelist. I really hope that in our lifetimes we at least realise mars/Venus/europa have life and biospheres. It would be a game changer.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Aug 2, 2022 14:32:10 GMT
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Aug 2, 2022 16:38:51 GMT
Thought Hubble was amazing,but the JAMES WEBB is out of this world. No pun intended.
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Post by FbrgVaStkFan on Sept 7, 2022 18:39:14 GMT
Tarantula Nebula. Looks to be a galaxy or star cluster behind. Brilliant.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Sept 7, 2022 18:40:07 GMT
A couple more mental photos showing the difference between Hubble & Webb... "These Hubble & Webb views unveil a star-forming region called the Tarantula Nebula. At a distance of 161,000 light-years, it’s home to the hottest & most massive stars known."
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Sept 7, 2022 18:40:58 GMT
Tarantula Nebula. Looks to be a galaxy or star cluster behind. Brilliant. Was just posting the same thing!
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Post by potterinleeds on Sept 7, 2022 18:46:24 GMT
Slightly off-topic I know, but I keep an eye on the Perseverance Mars Rover sites as well, as that is continuing to produce amazing images.
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Post by turtlefox on Sept 7, 2022 18:49:53 GMT
Makes you wonder why they make so much effort to come here just to anal probe hillbillies You can't conduct a proper experiment if you don't have 'a control'.
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Post by turtlefox on Sept 7, 2022 19:10:53 GMT
I don't know about you but looking at the Universe through a telescope is like looking at cells in the body though a microscope. Makes me feel that we are all part of the same thing. Humbling, or maybe Hubble(ing)
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