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Post by Staffsoatcake on May 7, 2022 15:03:06 GMT
Goalscorers stop scoring when they come to us, but start to score again when they leave.
Managers fail at Stoke but finish higher than us with other clubs.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 7, 2022 15:04:41 GMT
Yes.
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Post by chuckrocky on May 7, 2022 15:06:58 GMT
The manger runs the footballing side of the club, that’s the problem.
We’re twenty years behind the times.
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Post by scfcwebby on May 7, 2022 15:13:03 GMT
The board is a HUGE part of the problem at the club, perhaps the biggest
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Post by liathroid on May 7, 2022 15:18:23 GMT
The board is a HUGE part of the problem at the club, perhaps the biggest the board backed everyone , should they stop backing the manager, if they do where do we go |
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Post by scfcwebby on May 7, 2022 15:22:16 GMT
The board is a HUGE part of the problem at the club, perhaps the biggest the board backed everyone , should they stop backing the manager, if they do where do we go Dont take my post as "the board should sell up" one mate, i don't want that, could be the worst thing that could happen to us. But they MUST get football people in to make football decisions. They are 20 years out of date with their practices and as the past 4 managerial appointments have shown, their footballing decisions simply aren't good enough |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2022 15:28:17 GMT
the board backed everyone , should they stop backing the manager, if they do where do we go Dont take my post as "the board should sell up" one mate, i don't want that, could be the worst thing that could happen to us. But they MUST get football people in to make football decisions. They are 20 years out of date with their practices and as the past 4 managerial appointments have shown, their footballing decisions simply aren't good enough The 20 years before that were better? |
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Post by liathroid on May 7, 2022 15:31:25 GMT
the board backed everyone , should they stop backing the manager, if they do where do we go Dont take my post as "the board should sell up" one mate, i don't want that, could be the worst thing that could happen to us. But they MUST get football people in to make football decisions. They are 20 years out of date with their practices and as the past 4 managerial appointments have shown, their footballing decisions simply aren't good enough they gave the jobs to Rowett and Jones who waisted a fortune , now O Neill has it it and has done a lot of shifting the poor signings , next season should be his last now he has a free go at it |
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Post by scfcwebby on May 7, 2022 15:37:35 GMT
Dont take my post as "the board should sell up" one mate, i don't want that, could be the worst thing that could happen to us. But they MUST get football people in to make football decisions. They are 20 years out of date with their practices and as the past 4 managerial appointments have shown, their footballing decisions simply aren't good enough they gave the jobs to Rowett and Jones who waisted a fortune , now O Neill has it it and has done a lot of shifting the poor signings , next season should be his last now he has a free go at it I just can't get on board with that... Despite what you have put - we still have one of the highest wage bills in the league - we have still spent one of the highest amounts on fees/loan fees/agent fees etc in the league - we still have the majority of a team that the 13 teams above us would donate a bollock for Its the management that has killed us, inept, negative, scared of his own shadow, 5 at the back at home, 1 up front at home, 1 shot on target all game at home AGAIN, no idea how to change a game in our favour, poor treatment of the young players. He's a nice bloke I'm sure but he IS NOT a championship manager and will never get us close to the play offs |
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Post by independent on May 7, 2022 15:41:47 GMT
I appreciate that the board are old fashioned but any set up you choose to name can be shown to have failed at some club or other. Everton hired Leicester city's head of recruitment after he was successful there and he signed shite for Everton. Like it or not the manager of a club is the crucial appointment that has to be correct. DOF get this decision wrong as often as they get it right. A couple of years ago Chelsea and Watford were being held up as the model that clubs should follow if they wanted to be successful. Change your manager every 2/3 years. No one mentioned all the clubs that this didn't work for.
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Post by independent on May 7, 2022 16:02:35 GMT
they gave the jobs to Rowett and Jones who waisted a fortune , now O Neill has it it and has done a lot of shifting the poor signings , next season should be his last now he has a free go at it I just can't get on board with that... Despite what you have put - we still have one of the highest wage bills in the league - we have still spent one of the highest amounts on fees/loan fees/agent fees etc in the league - we still have the majority of a team that the 13 teams above us would donate a bollock for Its the management that has killed us, inept, negative, scared of his own shadow, 5 at the back at home, 1 up front at home, 1 shot on target all game at home AGAIN, no idea how to change a game in our favour, poor treatment of the young players. He's a nice bloke I'm sure but he IS NOT a championship manager and will never get us close to the play offs 1. Yes and some of it is still being paid to players who don't even play for the club and more on contracts that preceded MON. 2. Yes, Agents don't help you unload unwanted players for nothing. We are actually showing £3 million profit on transfers since he took over,not that that is ever mentioned. 3. Bollox. Name 6 of our players (a Majority) that any of the 13 clubs you mention would love to have. Our players are not good enough, which is not surprising when you are signing free transfers and antiques past their sell by date. League tables don't lie after 46 games. 4. Maybe, but this is the same guy who had us 2nd in the league, and has shown play off form in his last 10 games. So, he can't be that inept. perhaps injuries had something to do with our bad patch? You don't mention him changing to a back 4 lately trying to win the game and conceding a late goal and losing instead. 5. Poor treatment of our young players is a joke. No Stoke manager that I can remember has given more young players a chance. If they have not taken the opportunities offered to them then that is their own fault. I don't think that he should play players who aren't doing their stuff, but maybe you do. |
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Post by lordb on May 7, 2022 16:03:45 GMT
they gave the jobs to Rowett and Jones who waisted a fortune , now O Neill has it it and has done a lot of shifting the poor signings , next season should be his last now he has a free go at it I just can't get on board with that... Despite what you have put - we still have one of the highest wage bills in the league - we have still spent one of the highest amounts on fees/loan fees/agent fees etc in the league - we still have the majority of a team that the 13 teams above us would donate a bollock for Its the management that has killed us, inept, negative, scared of his own shadow, 5 at the back at home, 1 up front at home, 1 shot on target all game at home AGAIN, no idea how to change a game in our favour, poor treatment of the young players. He's a nice bloke I'm sure but he IS NOT a championship manager and will never get us close to the play offs Do we still have one of the highest wage bill? |
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Post by thevoid on May 7, 2022 16:06:21 GMT
The club has spent the majority of its third tier history under the Coates Family, and it was very nearly another relegation.
They lucked out with Pulis who was, let's be honest, had no CV to shout about at this level beforehand.
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Post by lordb on May 7, 2022 16:08:40 GMT
The club has spent the majority of its third tier history under the Coates Family, and it was very nearly another relegation. They lucked out with Pulis who was, let's be honest, had no CV to shout about at this level beforehand. He'd managed Bristol City and Portsmouth at this level |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 7, 2022 16:11:14 GMT
I appreciate that the board are old fashioned but any set up you choose to name can be shown to have failed at some club or other. Everton hired Leicester city's head of recruitment after he was successful there and he signed shite for Everton. Like it or not the manager of a club is the crucial appointment that has to be correct. DOF get this decision wrong as often as they get it right. A couple of years ago Chelsea and Watford were being held up as the model that clubs should follow if they wanted to be successful. Change your manager every 2/3 years. No one mentioned all the clubs that this didn't work for. Watford's model is weird and chaotic to a point but it's working a damn sight better than ours? No model is perfect but there's a reason why clubs at our level and even below are moving away from the manager = emperor model, surely? |
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Post by thevoid on May 7, 2022 16:12:22 GMT
The club has spent the majority of its third tier history under the Coates Family, and it was very nearly another relegation. They lucked out with Pulis who was, let's be honest, had no CV to shout about at this level beforehand. He'd managed Bristol City and Portsmouth at this level I know he did. Perhaps I should have said 'no CV of note'. |
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on May 7, 2022 16:15:46 GMT
The board is a HUGE part of the problem at the club, perhaps the biggest Correct they can have all the money in the world but if you don't spend it in a clever way by appointing the right people in the right roles its completely useless. I fully expect next season to be very similar or even worse than the one just ended. |
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Post by scfcwebby on May 7, 2022 16:18:02 GMT
I just can't get on board with that... Despite what you have put - we still have one of the highest wage bills in the league - we have still spent one of the highest amounts on fees/loan fees/agent fees etc in the league - we still have the majority of a team that the 13 teams above us would donate a bollock for Its the management that has killed us, inept, negative, scared of his own shadow, 5 at the back at home, 1 up front at home, 1 shot on target all game at home AGAIN, no idea how to change a game in our favour, poor treatment of the young players. He's a nice bloke I'm sure but he IS NOT a championship manager and will never get us close to the play offs 1. Yes and some of it is still being paid to players who don't even play for the club and more on contracts that preceded MON. 2. Yes, Agents don't help you unload unwanted players for nothing. We are actually showing £3 million profit on transfers since he took over,not that that is ever mentioned. 3. Bollox. Name 6 of our players (a Majority) that any of the 13 clubs you mention would love to have. Our players are not good enough, which is not surprising when you are signing free transfers and antiques past their sell by date. League tables don't lie after 46 games. 4. Maybe, but this is the same guy who had us 2nd in the league, and has shown play off form in his last 10 games. So, he can't be that inept. perhaps injuries had something to do with our bad patch? 5. Poor treatment of our young players is a joke. No Stoke manager that I can remember has given more young players a chance. If they have not taken the opportunities offered to them then that is their own fault. I don't think that he should play players who aren't doing their stuff, but maybe you do. 1 - what has that got to do with the price of oatcakes? Even with that, we are still paying our CURRENT players some of the highest salaries in the championship 2 - so we are paying a stupid amount of money to sign other clubs players that they don't want any more? You've gone against yourself there 3 - Jagielka, THB, Souttar (injured, granted), Baker, Allen, JPB, Brown, Sawyers. "our players are not good enough" who's fault is that after making 27 signings? £5m on Surridge, £3m on Doughty. Do you really think our "free" signings have cost us nothing? 4 - thank god we play 10 game seasons... Oh wait... We don't 🤦🏻♂️ the guy that had us second in the league only for us to finish 14th (FOURTEENTH) closer to 19th than the play offs? The season is 46 games long, not 10 5 - "If they have not taken the opportunities offered to them then that is their own fault. I don't think that he should play players who aren't doing their stuff, but maybe you do" you should rethink that comment... DWP got a chance, had 3 (arguably) MOTM performances and then was banished from the whole squad... Forrester had 2 solid games and then was banished from the whole squad. A token game at the end of the season for Sparrow (played out of position) is not giving youth a chance. If you want to happy clap like a seal then go for it. If you're happy with finishing bottom half every season then that's your perogative. But don't post rubbish and even pretty much argue against yourself in the process. |
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Post by J-Roar on May 7, 2022 16:20:28 GMT
The club has spent the majority of its third tier history under the Coates Family, and it was very nearly another relegation. They lucked out with Pulis who was, let's be honest, had no CV to shout about at this level beforehand. He'd managed Bristol City and Portsmouth at this level Who both sacked him. |
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Post by independent on May 7, 2022 16:21:55 GMT
I appreciate that the board are old fashioned but any set up you choose to name can be shown to have failed at some club or other. Everton hired Leicester city's head of recruitment after he was successful there and he signed shite for Everton. Like it or not the manager of a club is the crucial appointment that has to be correct. DOF get this decision wrong as often as they get it right. A couple of years ago Chelsea and Watford were being held up as the model that clubs should follow if they wanted to be successful. Change your manager every 2/3 years. No one mentioned all the clubs that this didn't work for. Watford's model is weird and chaotic to a point but it's working a damn sight better than ours? No model is perfect but there's a reason why clubs at our level and even below are moving away from the manager = emperor model, surely? My own belief is that we are entering the AGE OF DATA. Tony Bloom at Brighton, Brentford and Liverpool all show the future path that has been shown to be successful for clubs big and small. Before Klopp signed his new contract it was reported that Liverpool were crunching the numbers to decide his successor. It genuinely does seem to work and more clubs will adopt it. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 7, 2022 16:23:27 GMT
Watford's model is weird and chaotic to a point but it's working a damn sight better than ours? No model is perfect but there's a reason why clubs at our level and even below are moving away from the manager = emperor model, surely? My own belief is that we are entering the AGE OF DATA. Tony Bloom at Brighton, Brentford and Liverpool all show the future path that has been shown to be successful for clubs big and small. Before Klopp signed his new contract it was reported that Liverpool were crunching the numbers to decide his successor. It genuinely does seem to work and more clubs will adopt it. Absolutely, but again you can't be relying on one person to make those decisions. It's encouraging that we've dipped our toe into those waters, even if it hasn't yielded brilliant results so far, but we need things coordinating at a level above the manager. |
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Post by independent on May 7, 2022 16:26:35 GMT
1. Yes and some of it is still being paid to players who don't even play for the club and more on contracts that preceded MON. 2. Yes, Agents don't help you unload unwanted players for nothing. We are actually showing £3 million profit on transfers since he took over,not that that is ever mentioned. 3. Bollox. Name 6 of our players (a Majority) that any of the 13 clubs you mention would love to have. Our players are not good enough, which is not surprising when you are signing free transfers and antiques past their sell by date. League tables don't lie after 46 games. 4. Maybe, but this is the same guy who had us 2nd in the league, and has shown play off form in his last 10 games. So, he can't be that inept. perhaps injuries had something to do with our bad patch? 5. Poor treatment of our young players is a joke. No Stoke manager that I can remember has given more young players a chance. If they have not taken the opportunities offered to them then that is their own fault. I don't think that he should play players who aren't doing their stuff, but maybe you do. 1 - what has that got to do with the price of oatcakes? Even with that, we are still paying our CURRENT players some of the highest salaries in the championship 2 - so we are paying a stupid amount of money to sign other clubs players that they don't want any more? You've gone against yourself there 3 - Jagielka, THB, Souttar (injured, granted), Baker, Allen, JPB, Brown, Sawyers. "our players are not good enough" who's fault is that after making 27 signings? £5m on Surridge, £3m on Doughty. Do you really think our "free" signings have cost us nothing? 4 - thank god we play 10 game seasons... Oh wait... We don't 🤦🏻♂️ the guy that had us second in the league only for us to finish 14th (FOURTEENTH) closer to 19th than the play offs? The season is 46 games long, not 10 5 - "If they have not taken the opportunities offered to them then that is their own fault. I don't think that he should play players who aren't doing their stuff, but maybe you do" you should rethink that comment... DWP got a chance, had 3 (arguably) MOTM performances and then was banished from the whole squad... Forrester had 2 solid games and then was banished from the whole squad. A token game at the end of the season for Sparrow (played out of position) is not giving youth a chance. If you want to happy clap like a seal then go for it. If you're happy with finishing bottom half every season then that's your perogative. But don't post rubbish and even pretty much argue against yourself in the process. I think you should read my post again. You seem to have some problems with comprehension. |
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Post by scfcwebby on May 7, 2022 16:27:24 GMT
1 - what has that got to do with the price of oatcakes? Even with that, we are still paying our CURRENT players some of the highest salaries in the championship 2 - so we are paying a stupid amount of money to sign other clubs players that they don't want any more? You've gone against yourself there 3 - Jagielka, THB, Souttar (injured, granted), Baker, Allen, JPB, Brown, Sawyers. "our players are not good enough" who's fault is that after making 27 signings? £5m on Surridge, £3m on Doughty. Do you really think our "free" signings have cost us nothing? 4 - thank god we play 10 game seasons... Oh wait... We don't 🤦🏻♂️ the guy that had us second in the league only for us to finish 14th (FOURTEENTH) closer to 19th than the play offs? The season is 46 games long, not 10 5 - "If they have not taken the opportunities offered to them then that is their own fault. I don't think that he should play players who aren't doing their stuff, but maybe you do" you should rethink that comment... DWP got a chance, had 3 (arguably) MOTM performances and then was banished from the whole squad... Forrester had 2 solid games and then was banished from the whole squad. A token game at the end of the season for Sparrow (played out of position) is not giving youth a chance. If you want to happy clap like a seal then go for it. If you're happy with finishing bottom half every season then that's your perogative. But don't post rubbish and even pretty much argue against yourself in the process. I think you should read my post again. You seem to have some problems with comprehension. Explain? |
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Post by independent on May 7, 2022 16:29:24 GMT
My own belief is that we are entering the AGE OF DATA. Tony Bloom at Brighton, Brentford and Liverpool all show the future path that has been shown to be successful for clubs big and small. Before Klopp signed his new contract it was reported that Liverpool were crunching the numbers to decide his successor. It genuinely does seem to work and more clubs will adopt it. Absolutely, but again you can't be relying on one person to make those decisions. It's encouraging that we've dipped our toe into those waters, even if it hasn't yielded brilliant results so far, but we need things coordinating at a level above the manager. Allegedly Liverpool have 12 people working on Data for them, and a panel (including Klopp) that decides on transfers. And they still signed Keita. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2022 16:30:02 GMT
This season has been painful I am glad it is over.
I think Pulis and Rudge used to run the club and they were experienced footballing men.
Denise and John Coates have made mistakes that has been declared they have learnt from.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 7, 2022 16:32:14 GMT
Absolutely, but again you can't be relying on one person to make those decisions. It's encouraging that we've dipped our toe into those waters, even if it hasn't yielded brilliant results so far, but we need things coordinating at a level above the manager. Allegedly Liverpool have 12 people working on Data for them, and a panel (including Klopp) that decides on transfers. And they still signed Keita. Keita isn’t terrible, though he hasn’t lived up to expectations or price tag. As I said, there’s no foolproof system, but I don’t see why that means we should stick with an antiquated one that most clubs are moving away from and moreover clearly isn’t working for us anymore. |
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Post by independent on May 7, 2022 16:35:45 GMT
I don't think that we should stick with an antiquated system either. I agree with you .
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Post by kidcrewbob on May 7, 2022 16:47:38 GMT
As a club, we are stuck in the dark ages still targeting domestic dinasours and inexperienced young managers who do not thrive under this beer & sandwiches 70s style board - we had a glimpse of what it could be like for 3 seasons under Hughes who at least had European / big-club experience but then reverted to type - I want to see some excitement back and to do that they need to take some risks, being overly cautious is getting us knowhere and MoN ain't got the CV nor the personality to instill any degree of consistency, confidence and tactical nous into games. He's had his chance and now it's time to go......
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Post by independent on May 7, 2022 16:52:04 GMT
I think you should read my post again. You seem to have some problems with comprehension. Explain? 1. If you take the wages that MON is responsible for then that is untrue. 2. We have paid agents to assist us to unload about 16 overpaid players. Not for us to acquire players. 3. I'm not sure that any of the 13 clubs above us would love to have the 7 players you mentioned (forget Souttar). They could easily have signed at least 4 of them if they wished. 4. Must not have understood this either. 5. DWP had one great game, wasn't great in the other 2 and allegedly went AWOL and was dropped for it. Forrester was adequate at best. His first game I think I counted one 15 yard forward pass from him. I already posted that I thought he was following instructions. After the game MON said he needed to pass the ball forward much more, so the manager obviously hadn't limited his game. They are young players and need time. |
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Post by theonlooker on May 7, 2022 16:52:39 GMT
At our club the manager is king and all hail the king. At most other clubs there is a first team coach that slots into a structure that is more sacrosanct than they are and ever will be.
Until we fully move over to that type of model we will forever be scratching around for the old skool, hard nosed manager type that can do the lot.
The bigger worry going forwards is that they are becoming extinct. I don't know where our owners will go when MON leaves.
If they couldn't get Wilder, Dyche or Mowbray where do they go?
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