|
Post by yyy on Mar 8, 2022 14:43:50 GMT
They confess to liking to give the managers more time than most. Why that is I don't know because it never works for them Sacking managers also doesn't work for them. It just gets worse. What are the poor guys to do? They have to believe in what they believe in. It's just rank bad decisions isn't it, look at the managers we have had. They say Ronseal does exactly what it days on the tin.. We get relegated, we have a Kings ransom to spend on players.. do you A) Pay top wages for a proven manager to spend it wisely and get you straight back up or do you B) head hunt Gary Rowett an inexperienced manager who has never spent a penny. Then after it goes tits up, do you A) Hire a proven/experienced manager to sort it out and make some astute signings and changes or B) head hunt Nathan Jones from a division lower who has never managed a championship never mind a sizeable oneclub or handled millionaire players. Then after it goes tits up and the squad is a mess and in desperate need of restructuring with savvy buys and a bit of transfer nouse do you A) Appoint a manager that knows the market you are shopping in and has some kind of league reputation to back up the decision to sign him or B) Hire an international manager that doesn't know his market or the teams he's going to be coming up against These choices are by design, when we were mega bucks for this division they should have gone out and got a tried and tested bonafide contender. As I've said before, I'm firmly of the opinion the owners want a manager that isn't coming with a big reputation because they will insist on certain demands of things to be done their way. Our managerial appointments seem to be done down the barrel of a gun, managers that really want this chance desperately and will accept terms and conditions others won't. That's just my take on it but look where they all come from, even Hughes come from the gutter. It's just rank bad decision making imo Ambamovich at Chelsea takes professional advice when selecting managers, he talks to loads of people
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Mar 8, 2022 14:44:49 GMT
FFP dictates the clubs financial decisions not how wealthy the owners are They do in this league but not in the prem. do you think it’s just rowetts fault for spending 50mil when we got relegated? Someone gave him that money to spend and it was a shocking decision as that’s what has got us into this ffp mess I’d do some homework on FFP if I were you wakey
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Mar 8, 2022 14:45:53 GMT
But they backed them too much too soon. That’s the owners fault and the have continued to make mistake after mistake No they trusted the manager’s they appointed and backed them, There is more to backing a manager than just chucking a load of cash at them.
|
|
|
Post by crouchpotato1 on Mar 8, 2022 14:46:45 GMT
No they trusted the manager’s they appointed and backed them, There is more to backing a manager than just chucking a load of cash at them. I’m curious 🤔
|
|
|
Post by jokker on Mar 8, 2022 15:01:49 GMT
Sacking managers also doesn't work for them. It just gets worse. What are the poor guys to do? They have to believe in what they believe in. It's just rank bad decisions isn't it, look at the managers we have had. They say Ronseal does exactly what it days on the tin.. We get relegated, we have a Kings ransom to spend on players.. do you A) Pay top wages for a proven manager to spend it wisely and get you straight back up or do you B) head hunt Gary Rowett an inexperienced manager who has never spent a penny. Then after it goes tits up, do you A) Hire a proven/experienced manager to sort it out and make some astute signings and changes or B) head hunt Nathan Jones from a division lower who has never managed a championship never mind a sizeable oneclub or handled millionaire players. Then after it goes tits up and the squad is a mess and in desperate need of restructuring with savvy buys and a bit of transfer nouse do you A) Appoint a manager that knows the market you are shopping in and has some kind of league reputation to back up the decision to sign him or B) Hire an international manager that doesn't know his market or the teams he's going to be coming up against These choices are by design, when we were mega bucks for this division they should have gone out and got a tried and tested bonafide contender. As I've said before, I'm firmly of the opinion the owners want a manager that isn't coming with a big reputation because they will insist on certain demands of things to be done their way. Our managerial appointments seem to be done down the barrel of a gun, managers that really want this chance desperately and will accept terms and conditions others won't. That's just my take on it but look where they all come from, even Hughes come from the gutter. It's just rank bad decision making imo Ambamovich at Chelsea takes professional advice when selecting managers, he talks to loads of people He is now past tense, but he didn't even do that. He hired personnel to do the talking to professionels who were listened to. Mind you, there were lots of scepticism over the hired personnel, and whoever they were, they got a lot of appointments wrong with a lot of sacked managers following.
|
|
|
Post by yyy on Mar 8, 2022 15:08:37 GMT
It's just rank bad decisions isn't it, look at the managers we have had. They say Ronseal does exactly what it days on the tin.. We get relegated, we have a Kings ransom to spend on players.. do you A) Pay top wages for a proven manager to spend it wisely and get you straight back up or do you B) head hunt Gary Rowett an inexperienced manager who has never spent a penny. Then after it goes tits up, do you A) Hire a proven/experienced manager to sort it out and make some astute signings and changes or B) head hunt Nathan Jones from a division lower who has never managed a championship never mind a sizeable oneclub or handled millionaire players. Then after it goes tits up and the squad is a mess and in desperate need of restructuring with savvy buys and a bit of transfer nouse do you A) Appoint a manager that knows the market you are shopping in and has some kind of league reputation to back up the decision to sign him or B) Hire an international manager that doesn't know his market or the teams he's going to be coming up against These choices are by design, when we were mega bucks for this division they should have gone out and got a tried and tested bonafide contender. As I've said before, I'm firmly of the opinion the owners want a manager that isn't coming with a big reputation because they will insist on certain demands of things to be done their way. Our managerial appointments seem to be done down the barrel of a gun, managers that really want this chance desperately and will accept terms and conditions others won't. That's just my take on it but look where they all come from, even Hughes come from the gutter. It's just rank bad decision making imo Ambamovich at Chelsea takes professional advice when selecting managers, he talks to loads of people He is now past tense, but he didn't even do that. He hired personnel to do the talking to professionels who were listened to. Mind you, there were lots of scepticism over the hired personnel, and whoever they were, they got a lot of appointments wrong with a lot of sacked managers following. That's right, but that's what he does. I don't actually think O Neill has turned out to be a bad choice, he's just stained as a bad choice if he stays too long. He's come in and served the purpose originally intended, so he's been a success. Now it's time to look to next base and imo O Neill isn't that man. We, with a younger squad should be playing a different type of football to what we were when we had a squad of plodders, I think he has failed to recognise that and we would be a lot more effective under a different style. You don't have to hire every manager with a long term project in mind, very few managers stay anywhere for Any length of time. Hire them to get you to next base and recognise when you're there, make sure you get that man that knows how to do it and their style fits your best players. You're taking a stab in the dark asking a manager to do something they have never done with a squad of players that don't suit their style
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Mar 8, 2022 15:19:50 GMT
Because they can use the *being fans of the club* or *bet365 employ x number in Stoke-on-Trent* reasons. There are still fans out there who think they're the best owners around. The last six years have been dreadful. Stockholm Syndrome
|
|
|
Post by TrentValePotter96 on Mar 8, 2022 15:22:17 GMT
I don't want them out, but increasingly that's because there are no clear alternatives. But they need to manage their 'asset' better i.e. Get fresh thinking in
|
|
|
Post by anchorman on Mar 8, 2022 15:27:31 GMT
Sacking Pulis and appointing Mark Hughes Cheap season tickets Backing the managers they employ There’s many many more if I could be arsed tbh Appointing Pulis in the first place. Reappointing him Giving the great man time......
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Mar 8, 2022 15:27:45 GMT
Clueless is harsh. They do get some decisions correct... Name one. In terms of things they do off the pitch- subsidised away travel, frozen season ticket prices, furlough of staff- quite a bit. If we're talking about the football side of things only, it's a different matter altogether. Freezing the season ticket prices is great, but I'd probably be willing to pay more for a better product on the pitch.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Mar 8, 2022 15:28:36 GMT
Anybody who wants the Coates family out especially in the current climate are off their heads and are not really thinking it through I’d describe them as utterly clueless mate I'd go for 'cerifiably mad', men in white coats time!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2022 15:31:12 GMT
I’d describe them as utterly clueless mate I'd go for 'cerifiably mad', men in white coats time! [/quo Hyaduck with a pair of underpants on his head with 2 pencils up his nose, mad
|
|
|
Post by bunnyscfc on Mar 8, 2022 16:06:18 GMT
Two main points from me:
1. There isn't a queue of people waiting to buy Stoke City, and if the Coates go we are knackered....
but...
2. That doesn't mean that questions can't be asked of leadership in recent years. Indeed, have we even heard off our leader in the last few years? Communication from on high is rare and I have not a clue what our plan is in the short and long terms.
For me, clubs should look for outside investment when they're doing well, not wait until it goes pear-shaped. Same with new ideas and voices. Why haven't we got a DOF or a new CEO? Why promote from within when it's been poor over the last few years? Are we a club that is stagnating at best?
I can handle a few years treading water if that's the plan. I just want to hear a plan.
|
|
|
Post by scfcwebby on Mar 8, 2022 16:17:19 GMT
Two main points from me: 1. There isn't a queue of people waiting to buy Stoke City, and if the Coates go we are knackered.... but... 2. That doesn't mean that questions can't be asked of leadership in recent years. Indeed, have we even heard off our leader in the last few years? Communication from on high is rare and I have not a clue what our plan is in the short and long terms. For me, clubs should look for outside investment when they're doing well, not wait until it goes pear-shaped. Same with new ideas and voices. Why haven't we got a DOF or a new CEO? Why promote from within when it's been poor over the last few years? Are we a club that is stagnating at best? I can handle a few years treading water if that's the plan. I just want to hear a plan. I think you've summed it up really well. For me, for what it's worth, I dont want the club to "sell up" I think we are in the safest hands possible when it comes to ownership HOWEVER... we do need to move away from "internal promotions and leadership" and bring in proper footballing people for the main roles of Chairman, CEO and DOF (if we go down that route) The club is a shambles and needs the root and branch clear out that was promised when we were relegated, the infrastructure and ideas for moving the club into the present are 15 years out of date and we are merely playing catch up with other clubs and compared to other clubs, doing it very badly. The club needs to move into the 21st century and get with the times, from first team affairs, to fan experience, we need forward thinking and not making do
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 8, 2022 16:21:49 GMT
Two main points from me: 1. There isn't a queue of people waiting to buy Stoke City, and if the Coates go we are knackered.... but... 2. That doesn't mean that questions can't be asked of leadership in recent years. Indeed, have we even heard off our leader in the last few years? Communication from on high is rare and I have not a clue what our plan is in the short and long terms. For me, clubs should look for outside investment when they're doing well, not wait until it goes pear-shaped. Same with new ideas and voices. Why haven't we got a DOF or a new CEO? Why promote from within when it's been poor over the last few years? Are we a club that is stagnating at best? I can handle a few years treading water if that's the plan. I just want to hear a plan. I think you've summed it up really well. For me, for what it's worth, I dont want the club to "sell up" I think we are in the safest hands possible when it comes to ownership HOWEVER... we do need to move away from "internal promotions and leadership" and bring in proper footballing people for the main roles of Chairman, CEO and DOF (if we go down that route) The club is a shambles and needs the root and branch clear out that was promised when we were relegated, the infrastructure and ideas for moving the club into the present are 15 years out of date and we are merely playing catch up with other clubs and compared to other clubs, doing it very badly. The club needs to move into the 21st century and get with the times, from first team affairs, to fan experience, we need forward thinking and not making do Yep. And there's zero evidence to suggest we have any desire to do that. Even the progressive steps taken in recruitment over the past couple of years (not that they've necessarily been wildly successful so far) have been spurred by O'Neill rather than the brass.
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Mar 8, 2022 16:35:24 GMT
FFP dictates the clubs financial decisions not how wealthy the owners are They do in this league but not in the prem. do you think it’s just rowetts fault for spending 50mil when we got relegated? Someone gave him that money to spend and it was a shocking decision as that’s what has got us into this ffp mess If they had not backed the managers financially and we had equally failed (a very good chance that would have happened) would the fans now be posting 'Thank God, we didn't back the manager'??? The Board would have been lambasted if we hadn't have backed Rowett when appointed. It sounds like its 'backing the manager' when it works out , and 'throwing money at the manager' when it doesn't!
|
|
|
Post by jokker on Mar 8, 2022 18:10:10 GMT
He is now past tense, but he didn't even do that. He hired personnel to do the talking to professionels who were listened to. Mind you, there were lots of scepticism over the hired personnel, and whoever they were, they got a lot of appointments wrong with a lot of sacked managers following. That's right, but that's what he does. I don't actually think O Neill has turned out to be a bad choice, he's just stained as a bad choice if he stays too long. He's come in and served the purpose originally intended, so he's been a success. Now it's time to look to next base and imo O Neill isn't that man. We, with a younger squad should be playing a different type of football to what we were when we had a squad of plodders, I think he has failed to recognise that and we would be a lot more effective under a different style. You don't have to hire every manager with a long term project in mind, very few managers stay anywhere for Any length of time. Hire them to get you to next base and recognise when you're there, make sure you get that man that knows how to do it and their style fits your best players. You're taking a stab in the dark asking a manager to do something they have never done with a squad of players that don't suit their style True. And false. It's true you don't have to hire every manager with a long term project in mind. That's we did with Lambert, and that went really well, didn't it. Not that I would ever question his commitment or ability. But when you suggest that O'Neill was hired for the sole purpose of keeping us up after the previous management's failure. you've got it all wrong. You don't give someone a four year contract if he's just supposed to work 6-7 months. Sometimes clubs in our then position hand out a 1½ year contract, with a 6-month release clause, which essentially allows/expects you to keep the club up, and then a chance to prove you can do more and better. If the manager then fails to set the world alight after 4-6 months, then it won't be costly to sack him. But that's not what happened here. O'Neill was hired for the long haul, of which he's only half way. I think O'Neill probably insisted on 4 years, presumably with some get out clause after 6-12 months on both sides, but as both sides were happy with the arrangement, it never came into use. Obviously I know nothing about the details, none of us do, but my guess is that O'Neill, after 7 years with NI and an open invitation to stay forever, insisted on the long haul bit, but put forward plans how to progress in the time period, how to integrate more youth and rid the club of mercenaries and not sign players over 23. This will have been greatly to the board's liking - because those plans were similar to their own - so they were only too happy to give him the requested four years. With the management, staff, and board working as a team, with weekly meetings over lunch to review the good and the bad. I don't think the board is unhappy at all with how the plans are evolving. Of course they would like to see us have less home defeats. But those are just a blip in the overall scheme of things. Because they are patient - unlike the average fan.
|
|
|
Post by boothenender on Mar 8, 2022 18:10:51 GMT
Peter Coates has been an outstanding club owner for Stoke City FC and its fans. Speak to fans of other clubs and they are very jealous of our owner and his family. Local lad supporting his local team. I have spoken to Mr Coates at a few away games he appreciates the fans frustration and I totally believe that he has the clubs interest at his heart. We are lucky to have the Coates family as owners. Look at Man Utd, Barnsley, Derby etc. Their fans are full of hatred towards their club owners. We could do a lot worse than having St Peter as our saviour.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 9, 2022 0:54:10 GMT
Peter Coates has been an outstanding club owner for Stoke City FC and its fans. Speak to fans of other clubs and they are very jealous of our owner and his family. Local lad supporting his local team. I have spoken to Mr Coates at a few away games he appreciates the fans frustration and I totally believe that he has the clubs interest at his heart. We are lucky to have the Coates family as owners. Look at Man Utd, Barnsley, Derby etc. Their fans are full of hatred towards their club owners. We could do a lot worse than having St Peter as our saviour. Did you puke a little when you wrote that?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 9, 2022 1:00:21 GMT
Anybody who wants the Coates family out especially in the current climate are off their heads and are not really thinking it through You think we can move forward with them? There’s absolutely no evidence to suggest that’s close to happening. 6 years of them neglecting this club now. All with good intentions but neglect none the less. What is needed for them to finally realise that they’re the issue and they need to get people in that know what they’re doing. But will that happen? If it doesn’t then nothing will change. And if nothing changes, what’s the point?
|
|
|
Post by boothenender on Mar 9, 2022 8:24:52 GMT
Peter Coates has been an outstanding club owner for Stoke City FC and its fans. Speak to fans of other clubs and they are very jealous of our owner and his family. Local lad supporting his local team. I have spoken to Mr Coates at a few away games he appreciates the fans frustration and I totally believe that he has the clubs interest at his heart. We are lucky to have the Coates family as owners. Look at Man Utd, Barnsley, Derby etc. Their fans are full of hatred towards their club owners. We could do a lot worse than having St Peter as our saviour. Did you puke a little when you wrote that? No i did not puke at all. It is my opinion and you have your opinion. Peter Coates and Co do make errors in life just the same as all of us other ordinary mortals do. Have you ever made an error ?. I have seen your name pop up many times on the Oatcake site. You have a very strong opinion on most things and that is your choice. Most of your opinions are anti-Stoke, establishment or any other subject that we could mention. Speaking as a reasonable person if i do not like a product or service i take my custom elsewhere. Cherio
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 9, 2022 9:21:38 GMT
Did you puke a little when you wrote that? No i did not puke at all. It is my opinion and you have your opinion. Peter Coates and Co do make errors in life just the same as all of us other ordinary mortals do. Have you ever made an error ?. I have seen your name pop up many times on the Oatcake site. You have a very strong opinion on most things and that is your choice. Most of your opinions are anti-Stoke, establishment or any other subject that we could mention. Speaking as a reasonable person if i do not like a product or service i take my custom elsewhere. Cherio You clearly don’t understand how being a football fan works do you.
|
|
|
Post by wakeypotter on Mar 9, 2022 11:05:23 GMT
They do in this league but not in the prem. do you think it’s just rowetts fault for spending 50mil when we got relegated? Someone gave him that money to spend and it was a shocking decision as that’s what has got us into this ffp mess I’d do some homework on FFP if I were you wakey I’ll get back to you on that wez Not had time to research it yet 😬
|
|
|
Post by wakeypotter on Mar 9, 2022 13:09:42 GMT
They do in this league but not in the prem. do you think it’s just rowetts fault for spending 50mil when we got relegated? Someone gave him that money to spend and it was a shocking decision as that’s what has got us into this ffp mess I’d do some homework on FFP if I were you wakey Right mate just had a look with me son and In the prem you can’t lose mare than 105 million over 3 years and in the championship you can’t lose over 39 million Over 3 years. So really you have less chance of being affected by ffp in the prem so does that make me right 😃 I can see why relegated clubs could struggle if they don’t go up with in 3 years but our owners shouldn’t have given rowett 50mill to spend it was asking for trouble.
|
|
|
Post by FranktheRabbit on Mar 9, 2022 13:56:14 GMT
I like having them as owners and love the fact they are fans, but for a club that has billionaires at the helm, we look completely tin-pot.
We all know about the actual football side of things, and where they have gone wrong, but for me the whole match day experience is shit. From the ridiculous queues at half time, to the shit food they serve up once you finally reach the front, to just the general look of the outside of the stadium, it looks a shit hole. It either comes down to the fact that they are completely detached from what fans want, or they don't give a shit. I know they have agreed to finally spend some money improving things, but how long has that taken them? These issues were there when we were in the Prem, and are easily fixed.
With regards to the football side of things, they don't have to sell the club, just implement a structure where the footballing decisions, are made by football people. They just need to take a step back and not have as much involvement me thinks.
They have done amazing things whilst in charge of this football club, and no one can deny that. But I genuinely do think they take us, the fans for granted at times.
|
|
|
Post by theoptimist on Mar 9, 2022 14:30:24 GMT
I like having them as owners and love the fact they are fans, but for a club that has billionaires at the helm, we look completely tin-pot. We all know about the actual football side of things, and where they have gone wrong, but for me the whole match day experience is shit. From the ridiculous queues at half time, to the shit food they serve up once you finally reach the front, to just the general look of the outside of the stadium, it looks a shit hole. It either comes down to the fact that they are completely detached from what fans want, or they don't give a shit. I know they have agreed to finally spend some money improving things, but how long has that taken them? These issues were there when we were in the Prem, and are easily fixed. With regards to the football side of things, they don't have to sell the club, just implement a structure where the footballing decisions, are made by football people. They just need to take a step back and not have as much involvement me thinks. They have done amazing things whilst in charge of this football club, and no one can deny that. But I genuinely do think they take us, the fans for granted at times. A lot of common sense spoken right there.
|
|
|
Post by bangorstokie on Mar 9, 2022 16:14:25 GMT
There’s a lot of talk about FFP these days and how it affects the spending budget of teams in the Championship. As I’m not all that clued up on how it actually works, I have a question for those that are. What would happen if our home attendance dropped below the 10000 mark? which I might add could very well happen, if things don’t vastly improve and major decisions are made by those at the top, would the club find itself deeper in the FFP shit than they are now?
|
|
|
Post by FranktheRabbit on Mar 10, 2022 20:11:42 GMT
I like having them as owners and love the fact they are fans, but for a club that has billionaires at the helm, we look completely tin-pot. We all know about the actual football side of things, and where they have gone wrong, but for me the whole match day experience is shit. From the ridiculous queues at half time, to the shit food they serve up once you finally reach the front, to just the general look of the outside of the stadium, it looks a shit hole. It either comes down to the fact that they are completely detached from what fans want, or they don't give a shit. I know they have agreed to finally spend some money improving things, but how long has that taken them? These issues were there when we were in the Prem, and are easily fixed. With regards to the football side of things, they don't have to sell the club, just implement a structure where the footballing decisions, are made by football people. They just need to take a step back and not have as much involvement me thinks. They have done amazing things whilst in charge of this football club, and no one can deny that. But I genuinely do think they take us, the fans for granted at times. Just to further prove my point. That’s the shit they think is acceptable to serve up on a match day and charge you £4.50 for the awful displeasure. They are taking the piss.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 10, 2022 22:46:54 GMT
I like having them as owners and love the fact they are fans, but for a club that has billionaires at the helm, we look completely tin-pot. We all know about the actual football side of things, and where they have gone wrong, but for me the whole match day experience is shit. From the ridiculous queues at half time, to the shit food they serve up once you finally reach the front, to just the general look of the outside of the stadium, it looks a shit hole. It either comes down to the fact that they are completely detached from what fans want, or they don't give a shit. I know they have agreed to finally spend some money improving things, but how long has that taken them? These issues were there when we were in the Prem, and are easily fixed. With regards to the football side of things, they don't have to sell the club, just implement a structure where the footballing decisions, are made by football people. They just need to take a step back and not have as much involvement me thinks. They have done amazing things whilst in charge of this football club, and no one can deny that. But I genuinely do think they take us, the fans for granted at times. Just to further prove my point. That’s the shit they think is acceptable to serve up on a match day and charge you £4.50 for the awful displeasure. They are taking the piss. I would say as a whole Stoke fans are easily pleased. The last 6 years has shown that.
|
|
|
Post by iglugluk on Mar 10, 2022 22:58:18 GMT
Just to further prove my point. That’s the shit they think is acceptable to serve up on a match day and charge you £4.50 for the awful displeasure. They are taking the piss. I would say as a whole Stoke fans are easily pleased. The last 6 years has shown that. The ongoing manager poll seems to lend support to that opinion too.
|
|