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Post by Ron on Jan 27, 2022 9:19:56 GMT
There are alternatives- whilst he’s on very thin ice I’d give him a little more time.
But- look at Middlesbrough and Forest. Absolutely no fucking about from then. Wilder dnd Cooper we’re available. They acted. They’ll both get playoffs having bought in better managers.
Wilder would have been the perfect fit for us.
Ambitious clubs don’t fuck around.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 27, 2022 9:20:21 GMT
Thinking outside the box might also be to persist with a manager rather than follow the traditional plan of booting him at the first sign of choppy waters. 18 months of choppy waters and a pattern emerging. Not for me. There are obvious issues but I think the positives outweigh the negatives. Just.
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Post by potterpaul on Jan 27, 2022 9:20:21 GMT
You're just being over emotional and over sentimental now. No one is being disrespectful, just a growing number of supporters who believe he's done a decent shift but continually proves he struggles to make the next step and perhaps it's time to take stock and re-evaluate the clubs ambitions. Get a grip man Clubs ambitions🤔WE CANT SPEND MONEY and are likely to get a points deduction🤔 The same boat as most in this league but too many are continually out pointing us.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 27, 2022 9:20:41 GMT
Can I just clear something up. My understanding was that FFP only applied to the playing side and not the staff and coaching set up. So does the manager fall into the playing side or the coaching? And if the coaching then his dismissal wouldn’t impact on FFP? Would it?
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Post by franklin on Jan 27, 2022 9:21:56 GMT
So what? I'd stick to twitter mate your rubbish on your own. Laughable but not unexpected from you 😆 the irony, it seems your opinion is one getting stick mate so......
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Post by itsajoytobeapotter on Jan 27, 2022 9:22:22 GMT
The lack of respect for a bloke that’s worked his knackers off to stabilise this club since coming here is disgraceful.Yes we’re having a bad run but we’ll come out of it and yet again numerous posters will made to look pathetic It's not a complete lack of respect. It's more a question of whether he can take us any further. The past is the past and while his efforts in stabilising us are clear to see the question can he take us any further is a legitimate one. Personally I doubt it based on performances in the last 2 months. Team selection and substitutions look muddled and the lack of creativity is seriously worrying. Before anybody quotes the injury situation of course that's been a massive problem but a managers job is to deal with it. Leaving Vrancic out recently is hardly dealing with the problem.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 27, 2022 9:22:28 GMT
Steve Bruce We haven’t improved from last season it’s a carbon copy I can't help but find this kind of suggestion laughable. I think Bruce is a good manager, but so is O'Neill, who I think is probably better. There's no guarantee that any manager (Klopp, Ferguson, Guardiola etc. included) could come into Stoke and be a success. Any change right now is increasing risk. We're making progress with a squad that's been decimated by injuries to our best players for two seasons running. This club was in such a malaise, O'Neill & Co have worked miracles to get it where it is. See where we are by the middle of next season - I believe that was always the main target for a serious challenge at promotion. And this season is far from over. I am one for teams doing something to get the crowd going, but it works both ways. Remember the roar vs Man City? Not that it helps with the Boothen/South End split now. The Oatcake negative view seems to have slid into the matchday atmosphere. The context of the Man City roar was very different though Alex, it didn't come from nowhere. That was a team down to 10 men against a moneyed foe when we were underdogs. This is a team playing ponderous, fairly weak stuff, one that rarely turns round deficits yet is given to surrendering leads. That isn't going to inspire much in any support in the land. I don't want the manager gone yet either (I think) and I think there are a few cautious reasons for optimism among the gloom. When things work, they work well. But there's equally some red flags that don't seem to be going away and not all of that is down to the injury issues.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jan 27, 2022 9:22:44 GMT
Laughable but not unexpected from you 😆 the irony, it seems your opinion is one getting stick mate so...... Stick to putting the boot into your ex colleagues
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 27, 2022 9:23:03 GMT
18 months of choppy waters and a pattern emerging. Not for me. There are obvious issues but I think the positives outweigh the negatives. Just. Not being funny now but what are they? I like that he's trying to possession football. But other than that I think everything else is fundamentally wrong. Recruitment, formations, intent, tactical nouse. He's perfectly ok, he's not terrible and he's been ok. But I don't think we'll get anything more than that. I want more.
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Post by franklin on Jan 27, 2022 9:23:40 GMT
😆 the irony, it seems your opinion is one getting stick mate so...... Stick to putting the boot into your ex colleagues Ah bless lose the argument so get personal as expected from you.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 27, 2022 9:25:36 GMT
Can I just clear something up. My understanding was that FFP only applied to the playing side and not the staff and coaching set up. So does the manager fall into the playing side or the coaching? And if the coaching then his dismissal wouldn’t impact on FFP? Would it? Apparently it all counts... www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/everton-farhad-moshiri-rafa-benitez-22776598Benitez joins Roberto Martinez, Ronald Koeman, Sam Allardyce and Marco Silva in potentially costing Everton up to £48m in severance payments. And that sum has gone towards their FFP issues, counted in the same way that player transfer fees and wages are when calculating whether or not a club is in breach.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 27, 2022 9:26:58 GMT
Thinking outside the box might also be to persist with a manager rather than follow the traditional plan of booting him at the first sign of choppy waters. I entirely agree with you but the first sign of choppy waters…..seriously? Apart from when he first took over up until lockdown I’d agree it was a pleasure to watch us but since the return of football after it it’s been pretty much awful bar the odd spell ( the first few months of this season) The football is awful, the home form and tactics are a complete mystery and there’s a few on here who still think it’s November 2019 Anyway back to my point …..do I want him sacked? NO….but if he was there’s many excellent options off the beaten track, just as Blackpool Weren’t we pretty decent against a Fulham side that was in frightening form leading into our match? And didn’t we comfortably beat a Hull side who then went on to beat two of the divisions best teams? I actually think we’re only a couple of players away from genuine promotion contenders. Throw in a bit of luck and an injury free run and who knows.
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Post by werrington on Jan 27, 2022 9:29:46 GMT
I entirely agree with you but the first sign of choppy waters…..seriously? Apart from when he first took over up until lockdown I’d agree it was a pleasure to watch us but since the return of football after it it’s been pretty much awful bar the odd spell ( the first few months of this season) The football is awful, the home form and tactics are a complete mystery and there’s a few on here who still think it’s November 2019 Anyway back to my point …..do I want him sacked? NO….but if he was there’s many excellent options off the beaten track, just as Blackpool Weren’t we pretty decent against a Fulham side that was in frightening form leading into our match? And didn’t we comfortably beat a Hull side who then went on to beat two of the divisions best teams? I actually think we’re only a couple of players away from genuine promotion contenders. Throw in a bit of luck and an injury free run and who knows. Yeah we were but the 4-5 home games prior were utterly appalling as was Tuesday night at Coventry
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 27, 2022 9:30:38 GMT
Not for me. There are obvious issues but I think the positives outweigh the negatives. Just. Not being funny now but what are they? I like that he's trying to possession football. But other than that I think everything else is fundamentally wrong. Recruitment, formations, intent, tactical nouse. He's perfectly ok, he's not terrible and he's been ok. But I don't think we'll get anything more than that. I want more. I like that he is keen to bring through youth. I like that he’s signing young, hungry players. I like that we seem to want to play possession football with pace and counter attacking threat. I like that we’ve overcome some serious injury problems to maintain a top half position. I like that he’s proven himself the kind of manager who doesn’t panic. Nor does he overreact to good results or bad results.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 27, 2022 9:35:07 GMT
Can I just clear something up. My understanding was that FFP only applied to the playing side and not the staff and coaching set up. So does the manager fall into the playing side or the coaching? And if the coaching then his dismissal wouldn’t impact on FFP? Would it? Apparently it all counts... www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/everton-farhad-moshiri-rafa-benitez-22776598Benitez joins Roberto Martinez, Ronald Koeman, Sam Allardyce and Marco Silva in potentially costing Everton up to £48m in severance payments. And that sum has gone towards their FFP issues, counted in the same way that player transfer fees and wages are when calculating whether or not a club is in breach. Ok mate ta. Might explain why we’re not replacing Scholes yet then.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 27, 2022 9:38:47 GMT
His times up, its so obvious we aren't getting better. One good home performance in 10 does not equate to "he's doing a good job". It's also pretty telling that certain fans are arguing for him staying based on a game that we lost at home where we conceded 3 goals. These are desperate times.
He's served a purpose, now in the words of David Davis "in the name of God, go".
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 27, 2022 9:44:13 GMT
Last night I wrote quite a long piece on the Are we ready to go up thread which could equally fit here.
Basically I recommended looking at Blackburn, relegated 4 years before us, the patience they have shown Mowbray in the 5 years since he was appointed and Brereton Diaz since he was signed in 2018 for an undisclosed fee thought to be £6 million. In 4 seasons he scored a total of 9 goals 7 of which came last season when he played nearly all their matches. This season he's scored 20 of their 45.
We need a striker who scores that many and until we get one I doubt we'll find it easy to win matches. Hopefully it will be Campbell or Tezgel. But they need the club to be stable and patient for that to happen. Remember Campbell senior said Tyrese became disillusioned at Stoke when managers were rapidly changing because he kept getting pushed aside. I don't want that to happen to Tezgel as he might not be persuaded to stay. For me the biggest reason to keep MON is that he is giving these players a chance and they can see a clear pathway and maybe in the not too distant future we will get to the Premier with a team built around players we have developed who feel that they belong to the club and are proud to pull on the shirt and fight for us in the Championship or Premier because they want us to do well.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 27, 2022 9:54:46 GMT
Not being funny now but what are they? I like that he's trying to possession football. But other than that I think everything else is fundamentally wrong. Recruitment, formations, intent, tactical nouse. He's perfectly ok, he's not terrible and he's been ok. But I don't think we'll get anything more than that. I want more. I like that he is keen to bring through youth. I like that he’s signing young, hungry players. I like that we seem to want to play possession football with pace and counter attacking threat. I like that we’ve overcome some serious injury problems to maintain a top half position. I like that he’s proven himself the kind of manager who doesn’t panic. Nor does he overreact to good results or bad results. Is he or has been forced to? I guess but the quality is questionable? We've paid money for 1 player I think is ok. We've then spent about 5m on tripe. We have that threat but you wouldn't know it. We have a massive squad - he should do. He doesn't panic but he's so reactive in game and needs to be way more proactive. He does seem sensible and that is nice after the last two and I actually want him to do well but I just don't trust him to be better than this presently. And we need to be.
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Post by heworksardtho on Jan 27, 2022 9:57:20 GMT
At the end of the day football is a results business and 9/10 managers get the sack because of them , he should be judged at the end of the season and if we are not top 6 then he should go I take it you tipped us for the play-offs or above at the start of the season then? No mate not with that squad he assembled, I thought maybe 10-15th , we’ve got no goals in the team
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2022 10:03:33 GMT
I take it you tipped us for the play-offs or above at the start of the season then? No mate not with that squad he assembled, I thought maybe 10-15th , we’ve got no goals in the team Ok fair enough. I'm struggling to see why you think he should be sacked then if we don't make the play-offs?
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 27, 2022 10:06:27 GMT
I like that he is keen to bring through youth. I like that he’s signing young, hungry players. I like that we seem to want to play possession football with pace and counter attacking threat. I like that we’ve overcome some serious injury problems to maintain a top half position. I like that he’s proven himself the kind of manager who doesn’t panic. Nor does he overreact to good results or bad results. Is he or has been forced to? I guess but the quality is questionable? We've paid money for 1 player I think is ok. We've then spent about 5m on tripe. We have that threat but you wouldn't know it. We have a massive squad - he should do. He doesn't panic but he's so reactive in game and needs to be way more proactive. He does seem sensible and that is nice after the last two and I actually want him to do well but I just don't trust him to be better than this presently. And we need to be. He doesn’t strike me as the kind of bloke who would be forced to do anything he doesn’t want to. Personally I think it’s refreshing to see so many young players involved and I think he deserves credit for that. In relation to injuries I don’t think the size of squad is particularly relevant. We’ve been missing our best striker for a long time. He’s back but I doubt he’ll be back to his best until next season. Similarly we lost our best central defender. Arguably the best in the league. Throw in the injury problems of our most important creative player and injury/form problems with our jeepers and I think it’s hard to simply say “we have a big squad, we should be fine’.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jan 27, 2022 10:06:28 GMT
I can't help but find this kind of suggestion laughable. I think Bruce is a good manager, but so is O'Neill, who I think is probably better. There's no guarantee that any manager (Klopp, Ferguson, Guardiola etc. included) could come into Stoke and be a success. Any change right now is increasing risk. We're making progress with a squad that's been decimated by injuries to our best players for two seasons running. This club was in such a malaise, O'Neill & Co have worked miracles to get it where it is. See where we are by the middle of next season - I believe that was always the main target for a serious challenge at promotion. And this season is far from over. I am one for teams doing something to get the crowd going, but it works both ways. Remember the roar vs Man City? Not that it helps with the Boothen/South End split now. The Oatcake negative view seems to have slid into the matchday atmosphere. The context of the Man City roar was very different though Alex, it didn't come from nowhere. That was a team down to 10 men against a moneyed foe when we were underdogs. This is a team playing ponderous, fairly weak stuff, one that rarely turns round deficits yet is given to surrendering leads. That isn't going to inspire much in any support in the land. I don't want the manager gone yet either (I think) and I think there are a few cautious reasons for optimism among the gloom. When things work, they work well. But there's equally some red flags that don't seem to be going away and not all of that is down to the injury issues. True - the Man City roar was a poor example given the context. I've only been to a few games this season, but there are times when I feel the team needs encouragement early on, and it doesn't come, and I can see the team is trying. We try things and they don't come off, and there's almost a collective sigh. I could be considered a hypocrite because I've never been vocal at football matches, but even forgetting the encouragement, I wish there was less negativity from the crowd. It's not as black and white as what's there on the pitch on the day. It's a really difficult one, but somehow I feel like the Oatcake forum negativity has spread more widely into the matchday. We still play good stuff at times, and I've seen far worse matches under Hughes and Pulis (who I'm both fans of overall, Pulis especially) where the atmosphere deserved to be deader than anything under O'Neill. I feel like O'Neill is STILL fighting a downward spiral and general malaise at the club, and it's unfortunate (but only natural) that's spread so widely to the matchday crowd. And I also challenge anyone to watch every match of a team above us (Fulham excepted) for a few weeks and see how they feel about the way Stoke play week-to-week then. We are far from an exception amongst the playoff contenders - we just happen to have not had a good run yet - and I don't think any team has had to deal with injuries to key players like we have over the past 2 seasons. I don't know enough about transfers and FFP of other clubs apart from Derby, but the fact we've got rid of Davies shows what an absolute state we're in FFP-wise and what's having to be done behind the scenes to avoid a points deduction while keeping in contention for the playoffs this season.
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Post by march4 on Jan 27, 2022 10:13:16 GMT
Friday is a big game for the manager.
Can he motivate the players for this one?
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Post by heworksardtho on Jan 27, 2022 10:17:57 GMT
No mate not with that squad he assembled, I thought maybe 10-15th , we’ve got no goals in the team Ok fair enough. I'm struggling to see why you think he should be sacked then if we don't make the play-offs? I meant at the end of the season if we are not in the top 6 then we should part company
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 27, 2022 10:25:41 GMT
Ok fair enough. I'm struggling to see why you think he should be sacked then if we don't make the play-offs? I meant at the end of the season if we are not in the top 6 then we should part company So you think Blackburn would have done better if they'd sacked Mowbray two years ago?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2022 10:26:36 GMT
Well yeah. Realistically who could we replace him with that we could actually attract and afford? Thinking outside of the box is always a good start Like I posted above there’s many good coaches not in the public eye just awaiting a chance Well name one. You've asked me if I was making a serious statement, and I was. But you can't name one person although you've alluded to the fact there are loads.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 27, 2022 10:28:56 GMT
The context of the Man City roar was very different though Alex, it didn't come from nowhere. That was a team down to 10 men against a moneyed foe when we were underdogs. This is a team playing ponderous, fairly weak stuff, one that rarely turns round deficits yet is given to surrendering leads. That isn't going to inspire much in any support in the land. I don't want the manager gone yet either (I think) and I think there are a few cautious reasons for optimism among the gloom. When things work, they work well. But there's equally some red flags that don't seem to be going away and not all of that is down to the injury issues. True - the Man City roar was a poor example given the context. I've only been to a few games this season, but there are times when I feel the team needs encouragement early on, and it doesn't come, and I can see the team is trying. We try things and they don't come off, and there's almost a collective sigh. I could be considered a hypocrite because I've never been vocal at football matches, but even forgetting the encouragement, I wish there was less negativity from the crowd. It's not as black and white as what's there on the pitch on the day. It's a really difficult one, but somehow I feel like the Oatcake forum negativity has spread more widely into the matchday. We still play good stuff at times, and I've seen far worse matches under Hughes and Pulis (who I'm both fans of overall, Pulis especially) where the atmosphere deserved to be deader than anything under O'Neill. I feel like O'Neill is STILL fighting a downward spiral and general malaise at the club, and it's unfortunate (but only natural) that's spread so widely to the matchday crowd. And I also challenge anyone to watch every match of a team above us (Fulham excepted) for a few weeks and see how they feel about the way Stoke play week-to-week then. We are far from an exception amongst the playoff contenders - we just happen to have not had a good run yet - and I don't think any team has had to deal with injuries to key players like we have over the past 2 seasons. I don't know enough about transfers and FFP of other clubs apart from Derby, but the fact we've got rid of Davies shows what an absolute state we're in FFP-wise and what's having to be done behind the scenes to avoid a points deduction while keeping in contention for the playoffs this season. Does the malaise argument wash anymore? It was certainly true at one time but isn't this largely his team now, comprised mainly of players he's either signed or brought through? I guess the argument is whether he's fighting it or contributing to it with his approach and game management. I don't think sacking him does us any good, certainly not at this point, but he often doesn't help himself.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2022 10:30:12 GMT
So you fully expected to be pushing for the play offs this season? Even though we know we've been hit with injuries and have been limited to what players when can bring in due to FFP. For me this was always a rebuilding season and to see improvement on the last few seasons, which I believe we have. If you really want him gone then you need your head looking at. And one serious question... Who would you bring in that's available right now? How many “rebuilding” seasons can a side have?! Wasn’t that last season?! Stop making excuses for him. So you expected us to go up with the squad that with have?
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 27, 2022 10:32:18 GMT
Ok fair enough. I'm struggling to see why you think he should be sacked then if we don't make the play-offs? I meant at the end of the season if we are not in the top 6 then we should part company What if we play brilliantly between now and then? And lose out on goal difference? Despite having loads more injuries? And the roof blows off the Boothen? Still sack him then?
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Post by wakeypotter on Jan 27, 2022 10:34:45 GMT
Steve Bruce We haven’t improved from last season it’s a carbon copy Steve Bruce I really don’t get that. He’s done a hell of a lot more than mon
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