|
Post by chigstoke on Dec 31, 2021 1:15:12 GMT
I didn’t get chance to watch the match today, but from reading it sounds like we were absolutely dire with very little in the way of high points.
Coming back from this extended break, it was important we made a strong start to get us on our stride and it appears sadly we haven’t. It feels like we have such an inconsistency this season and it’s annoying. Tactical errors, substitutions, throw a dart and see what it lands on. Of course, injuries have not helped things one jot.
The club have been fucking useless at times this season, but I have to echo others. Who in the fuck do we bring in if he got the sack? Wilder isn’t available anymore, we could easily Jones it up, or we can do what we do best, a boring, stodgy British manager to net us 12th every season.
Though I see no way of him getting sacked, at least till the end of the season. I think we all acknowledge that we have to sort out the football quickly. And I hope he does. I’ll have to throw in my standard ‘please go 4-2-3-1’ response because there is clearly an issue with the setup as it is right now. Get Doughty on the left, Campbell on the right, Powell cam when fit, maybe move Tymon in to the middle two but is a problem area regardless.
|
|
|
Post by Billy the kid on Dec 31, 2021 2:24:15 GMT
The reality is, pulled the trigger on MON then we would have Holden until the end of the season, so regardless its a keep for me.
|
|
|
Post by hyaduck on Dec 31, 2021 3:03:16 GMT
He needs to go but as someone said we have that other clown Holden to the end of the season. Sack him at the end of his he season but for fuck sakes have someone lined up. Frank Lampard!!!
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Dec 31, 2021 7:11:17 GMT
He's had shit luck with injuries these past two years, serious FFP issues to deal with, and has turned us from a basket case into a stable mid-table team. Whether he can push us on from this level we're at now- I don't know. What I am sure about though is that Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola would struggle to get an unbalanced squad like ours performing to the level of a top 6 side. We have a lot of bad players in this squad, and I don't see how a new manager is going to transform them. I mean, what the fuck is anyone going to do with Sam Clucas, Danny Batth etc? They're in the side because there's no-one else, but how are you supposed to utilise them differently or coach them to improve them? There are things I believe MON should do differently, but I don't see a switch to a new formation or shuffling personnel around working like a magic bullet. If we sack him, at best whoever comes in will probably finish about where MON will (at present I'd guess 10th-12th) while if we make another disastrous Jones-type appointment then Jesus- we could drop like a stone. Tonight was abysmal. The tactics were wrong, the players were bloody awful, and everyone associated with the performance needs to know that it isn't acceptable. However, decisions about managerial sackings need to be made with calm, clear heads, not on the back of a shit home display when everyone's raging. Keep calm, see where we are at the end of the season then weigh up the pros and cons. We need new players in the building quickly, as that's the only way we're going to avert a slump. A new manager at this point isn't going to make much difference. A touch unkind on Danny Batth unlike clucas he gives a fuck
|
|
|
Post by Trouserdog on Dec 31, 2021 8:37:06 GMT
He's had shit luck with injuries these past two years, serious FFP issues to deal with, and has turned us from a basket case into a stable mid-table team. Whether he can push us on from this level we're at now- I don't know. What I am sure about though is that Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola would struggle to get an unbalanced squad like ours performing to the level of a top 6 side. We have a lot of bad players in this squad, and I don't see how a new manager is going to transform them. I mean, what the fuck is anyone going to do with Sam Clucas, Danny Batth etc? They're in the side because there's no-one else, but how are you supposed to utilise them differently or coach them to improve them? There are things I believe MON should do differently, but I don't see a switch to a new formation or shuffling personnel around working like a magic bullet. If we sack him, at best whoever comes in will probably finish about where MON will (at present I'd guess 10th-12th) while if we make another disastrous Jones-type appointment then Jesus- we could drop like a stone. Tonight was abysmal. The tactics were wrong, the players were bloody awful, and everyone associated with the performance needs to know that it isn't acceptable. However, decisions about managerial sackings need to be made with calm, clear heads, not on the back of a shit home display when everyone's raging. Keep calm, see where we are at the end of the season then weigh up the pros and cons. We need new players in the building quickly, as that's the only way we're going to avert a slump. A new manager at this point isn't going to make much difference. A touch unkind on Danny Batth unlike clucas he gives a fuck Players like Batth and Allen give 100%, but the point I'm making is that at their ages they are what they are. I don't watch them and think 'If only the manager just used them slightly differently, all would be well...' I honestly think they're trying their best but aren't at the level we need and never will be now. I don't know what another manager would do with them that would make a difference. Clucas doesn't give a fuck, but he's the type of player who won't give a fuck whoever is managing. Either way, whoever's in the dugout has players like these at his disposal: 30 or over, limited, on decent wages, and not good enough.
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Dec 31, 2021 8:39:40 GMT
He's had shit luck with injuries these past two years, serious FFP issues to deal with, and has turned us from a basket case into a stable mid-table team. Whether he can push us on from this level we're at now- I don't know. What I am sure about though is that Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola would struggle to get an unbalanced squad like ours performing to the level of a top 6 side. We have a lot of bad players in this squad, and I don't see how a new manager is going to transform them. I mean, what the fuck is anyone going to do with Sam Clucas, Danny Batth etc? They're in the side because there's no-one else, but how are you supposed to utilise them differently or coach them to improve them? There are things I believe MON should do differently, but I don't see a switch to a new formation or shuffling personnel around working like a magic bullet. If we sack him, at best whoever comes in will probably finish about where MON will (at present I'd guess 10th-12th) while if we make another disastrous Jones-type appointment then Jesus- we could drop like a stone. Tonight was abysmal. The tactics were wrong, the players were bloody awful, and everyone associated with the performance needs to know that it isn't acceptable. However, decisions about managerial sackings need to be made with calm, clear heads, not on the back of a shit home display when everyone's raging. Keep calm, see where we are at the end of the season then weigh up the pros and cons. We need new players in the building quickly, as that's the only way we're going to avert a slump. A new manager at this point isn't going to make much difference. I honestly wouldn't give the bloke another penny to spend. I would sit him down and tell him he has to get the best out of the squad he has spent good FFP money on. If he asked for more loans I'd genuinely laugh in his face. The only thing that would change my mind is if he asked for money for a bona fide DM with physicality and even then I'd ask him why it's taken this bloody long to recognise he needs one.
|
|
|
Post by Trouserdog on Dec 31, 2021 8:42:23 GMT
He's had shit luck with injuries these past two years, serious FFP issues to deal with, and has turned us from a basket case into a stable mid-table team. Whether he can push us on from this level we're at now- I don't know. What I am sure about though is that Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola would struggle to get an unbalanced squad like ours performing to the level of a top 6 side. We have a lot of bad players in this squad, and I don't see how a new manager is going to transform them. I mean, what the fuck is anyone going to do with Sam Clucas, Danny Batth etc? They're in the side because there's no-one else, but how are you supposed to utilise them differently or coach them to improve them? There are things I believe MON should do differently, but I don't see a switch to a new formation or shuffling personnel around working like a magic bullet. If we sack him, at best whoever comes in will probably finish about where MON will (at present I'd guess 10th-12th) while if we make another disastrous Jones-type appointment then Jesus- we could drop like a stone. Tonight was abysmal. The tactics were wrong, the players were bloody awful, and everyone associated with the performance needs to know that it isn't acceptable. However, decisions about managerial sackings need to be made with calm, clear heads, not on the back of a shit home display when everyone's raging. Keep calm, see where we are at the end of the season then weigh up the pros and cons. We need new players in the building quickly, as that's the only way we're going to avert a slump. A new manager at this point isn't going to make much difference. I honestly wouldn't give the bloke another penny to spend. I would sit him down and tell him he has to get the best out of the squad he has spent good FFP money on. If he asked for more loans I'd genuinely laugh in his face. The only thing that would change my mind is if he asked for money for a bona fide DM with physicality and even then I'd ask him why it's taken this bloody long to recognise he needs one. If you're at that point then you should be calling for his head. The squad we have is nowhere near good enough to go up under any manager and we HAVE to recruit.
|
|
|
Post by philb on Dec 31, 2021 8:43:19 GMT
Don’t sack him just yet, but he’s running out of chances. I think the only way he gets out of this if he’s got the balls to change things. Sadly I don’t think he has. He’s come from International football and tends to think along those lines. Slow build up play, 3 centre halves, wing backs etc. Small club mentality. I hope he turns it round as another sacking won’t do the club any good but I fear we’re heading for mid table obscurity yet again.
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Dec 31, 2021 9:10:52 GMT
I honestly wouldn't give the bloke another penny to spend. I would sit him down and tell him he has to get the best out of the squad he has spent good FFP money on. If he asked for more loans I'd genuinely laugh in his face. The only thing that would change my mind is if he asked for money for a bona fide DM with physicality and even then I'd ask him why it's taken this bloody long to recognise he needs one. If you're at that point then you should be calling for his head. The squad we have is nowhere near good enough to go up under any manager and we HAVE to recruit. I think what you said was right - calm heads and assess in the summer. What i'm saying is I wouldn't give him any more money now with one eye on that. Essentially he has a 6 month trial period to show he has the nous to extract every last ounce out of what squad he has now to prove that any money spent in the summer will go in the right places. He seriously needs to answer why he hasn't brought in a proper DM though, as it is increasingly obvious we need one for certain games if not every game. A total recruitment oversight that we cannot afford to do.
The injury and FFP situation is unkind and unfair given what and who went before him, but games last night highlight how hollow that is. Derby did the double over us and their pre season made Boskamp's 9 player chaos summer look relatively well planned. The players we have out injured they don't have available to even start with!
We didn't lay a glove on a team who had a visibly unfit and completely immobile Jagielka and Davies as a centre half pairing. I mean come on! There are injury and FFP excuses and there was that last night. You also have to question why he is persisting in trying to play out from the back with Danny Batth as the fulcrum - he proved away at Rotherham last season beyond any doubt that he simply cannot do it.
Going back to your post, why are you advocating more players to address a slump when we are pretty much safe given we should scramble enough points, and you as a poster have been pretty unequivocal that with this squad the manager shouldn't really be expected to achieve anything more than safety? Branding it something approaching a miracle IIRC? I agree a new manager at this point is pointless. It would just be another panic riddled mess and we'd end up with Mick McCarthy without any shadow of doubt!
|
|
|
Post by Staffsoatcake on Dec 31, 2021 9:19:24 GMT
He's just said our attitude was good and if any team looked like they were going to go on and win it after we equalised it was us There’s no way he’s just said that. He also said we played well.
|
|
|
Post by Trouserdog on Dec 31, 2021 9:44:49 GMT
If you're at that point then you should be calling for his head. The squad we have is nowhere near good enough to go up under any manager and we HAVE to recruit. I think what you said was right - calm heads and assess in the summer. What i'm saying is I wouldn't give him any more money now with one eye on that. Essentially he has a 6 month trial period to show he has the nous to extract every last ounce out of what squad he has now to prove that any money spent in the summer will go in the right places. He seriously needs to answer why he hasn't brought in a proper DM though, as it is increasingly obvious we need one for certain games if not every game. A total recruitment oversight that we cannot afford to do. The injury and FFP situation is unkind and unfair given what and who went before him, but games last night highlight how hollow that is. Derby did the double over us and their pre season made Boskamp's 9 player chaos summer look relatively well planned. The players we have out injured they don't have available to even start with!
We didn't lay a glove on a team who had a visibly unfit and completely immobile Jagielka and Davies as a centre half pairing. I mean come on! There are injury and FFP excuses and there was that last night. You also have to question why he is persisting in trying to play out from the back with Danny Batth as the fulcrum - he proved away at Rotherham last season beyond any doubt that he simply cannot do it. Going back to your post, why are you advocating more players to address a slump when we are pretty much safe given we should scramble enough points, and you as a poster have been pretty unequivocal that with this squad the manager shouldn't really be expected to achieve anything more than safety? Branding it something approaching a miracle IIRC? I agree a new manager at this point is pointless. It would just be another panic riddled mess and we'd end up with Mick McCarthy without any shadow of doubt!
Quite simply, I think with a couple of the right players coming in we'd still have a chance of getting into the top 6. That might be down to how poor the division is rather than anything positive about us, but I don't see why we should write that chance off if it's presenting itself. Expecting, rather than hoping for, a top 6 place this season following last season's 14th (which some people were) for me was never realistic. When we still had the likes of Vokes, McClean et al on the books I did genuinely fear a season of real struggle; when we managed to sell Collins and pay those wasters off with the income, it gave us a bit of wriggle room for transfers. Once I'd seen the summer business we'd done and what we were able to spend, I thought a top-half season (flirting with the play-offs) would be the most likely outcome. At this point, having seen how well we started, I'd be disappointed with a slump like last year. For me though, if you reach the point where you don't want the manager to be given any more money then you've lost faith in him and it'd be better to change. I'm not at that point- I think his business has been mixed, but if a couple of million could be made available, or money for loans, I think we should do just that.
|
|
|
Post by peterpan1 on Dec 31, 2021 9:46:57 GMT
Plenty of fans, myself included have given him the benefit of doubt. I've found him an amiable bloke and desperately wanted him to be successful. It is apparent however that he's very limited with certain aspects of the job. His formations, substitutions leave you scratching your head.
I also can't remember a bunch of Stoke players that I despise so much. They lack talent and really don't give a fuck. That said, a good manager deals with issues like this. We can't harp on about injuries to key players, MON is paid to come up with Plan B within the squad we have. For so called professional players to struggle to pass to each other over 5-10 yards in nothing short of scandalous. Wtf are they doing in training?
I recall many fans saying summer 2022 will be the turning point (when the bulk of the big earners/deadwood are out of contract) the question is do we trust MON to then get the right players in ?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2021 9:47:24 GMT
Jones is doing a good job at Luton.
|
|
|
Post by longdistancekiddie on Dec 31, 2021 10:04:43 GMT
How about sacking a few of the players
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Dec 31, 2021 10:05:40 GMT
I think what you said was right - calm heads and assess in the summer. What i'm saying is I wouldn't give him any more money now with one eye on that. Essentially he has a 6 month trial period to show he has the nous to extract every last ounce out of what squad he has now to prove that any money spent in the summer will go in the right places. He seriously needs to answer why he hasn't brought in a proper DM though, as it is increasingly obvious we need one for certain games if not every game. A total recruitment oversight that we cannot afford to do. The injury and FFP situation is unkind and unfair given what and who went before him, but games last night highlight how hollow that is. Derby did the double over us and their pre season made Boskamp's 9 player chaos summer look relatively well planned. The players we have out injured they don't have available to even start with!
We didn't lay a glove on a team who had a visibly unfit and completely immobile Jagielka and Davies as a centre half pairing. I mean come on! There are injury and FFP excuses and there was that last night. You also have to question why he is persisting in trying to play out from the back with Danny Batth as the fulcrum - he proved away at Rotherham last season beyond any doubt that he simply cannot do it. Going back to your post, why are you advocating more players to address a slump when we are pretty much safe given we should scramble enough points, and you as a poster have been pretty unequivocal that with this squad the manager shouldn't really be expected to achieve anything more than safety? Branding it something approaching a miracle IIRC? I agree a new manager at this point is pointless. It would just be another panic riddled mess and we'd end up with Mick McCarthy without any shadow of doubt!
Quite simply, I think with a couple of the right players coming in we'd still have a chance of getting into the top 6. That might be down to how poor the division is rather than anything positive about us, but I don't see why we should write that chance off if it's presenting itself. Expecting, rather than hoping for, a top 6 place this season following last season's 14th (which some people were) for me was never realistic. When we still had the likes of Vokes, McClean et al on the books I did genuinely fear a season of real struggle; when we managed to sell Collins and pay those wasters off with the income, it gave us a bit of wriggle room for transfers. Once I'd seen the summer business we'd done and what we were able to spend, I thought a top-half season (flirting with the play-offs) would be the most likely outcome. At this point, having seen how well we started, I'd be disappointed with a slump like last year. For me though, if you reach the point where you don't want the manager to be given any more money then you've lost faith in him and it'd be better to change. I'm not at that point- I think his business has been mixed, but if a couple of million could be made available, or money for loans, I think we should do just that. I'm not as confident as you are of a top 6 finish and I never have been. I've accepted where we are a long while ago and I've been trying to look at it objectively. I've been looking at what the manager has been bringing in through the door, how he's been lining up and how he's been dealing with the adversity of injuries. Some of the signings I'm genuinely baffled with and it surrounds the change to a back three, but at the same time our business has pretty much hamstrung us if we want to go back to a 433 or 4231. We are limited pretty much to Fletcher up on his own if we do switch and he is far from perfect himself. Our 4M outlay on Surridge and Brown has wedded us to a top two for example. Neither player can lead a line and Brown doesn't have the nous to play effectively out wide. Then there is Doughty. A winger who is now completely redundant and almost devoid of match fitness and practice. That business accounts for nearly all of the managers spending to date. You can surely understand my reticence in giving him more money? I'm looking at how lacking in creativity we are week in, week out. Sure, FFP and injuries... We've lost Souttar and Powell to name two, two players absolutely key to how we setup. We can't go from that to what we are seeing now though can we, and have it as acceptable when your 2M striker signing sits on the bench after half a season and is lucky to see 10 minutes at the end of games? Anyway, FFP... There isn't a manager in this league that isn't hamstrung by either FFP, injuries or both at any stage of a campaign. Those that succeed are those that find ways to eek out performances and points when the team needs it and I'm starting to question this managers ability to do it. In short, the excuses are fast running out for me and he needs to step up and show he has the streetwise nous needed to get a serious push towards the top. If he can do that between now and the end of the season, change the side a bit, get the team creating more chances than we are now, get the team playing with more vigour at home then I will be a happy man. If that takes us to the top 6 then great, if not he's proven he deserves the chance to spend a bit more money in the summer and go again. It's surely a common sense approach adopted by most clubs, no?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2021 10:06:37 GMT
OK some very good points - but what do you think could happen if say a Steve Cooper type was brought in, do you think that type of appointment would make the difference, because Forrest were awful until they changed their negative manager. A lot depends on what you've got in the building player-wise. I look at our squad without Powell and Souttar, and I just see a very mediocre bunch of players in whatever system you try and put them in. There are so many past their best that I can't see a new manager improving them. MON needs to try something different now- even just to show that he's willing to do it. I've always stuck up for him and I think he's done a great job here, but even I'm not going to put up with a run of performances like that until the end of the season. Starting to lose patience mate? Suppose that's fair enough. I think he's still got credit in teh bank. Injuries to critical players have cost us massively.
|
|
|
Post by mowlee on Dec 31, 2021 10:10:11 GMT
I honestly wouldn't give the bloke another penny to spend. I would sit him down and tell him he has to get the best out of the squad he has spent good FFP money on. If he asked for more loans I'd genuinely laugh in his face. The only thing that would change my mind is if he asked for money for a bona fide DM with physicality and even then I'd ask him why it's taken this bloody long to recognise he needs one. If you're at that point then you should be calling for his head. The squad we have is nowhere near good enough to go up under any manager and we HAVE to recruit. boro an forests squads are no better than ours.. mons been in this job over 2 years not months like wilder an cooper!! I honestly don’t understand how people can even defend that pile of horse shit from last night!! Mon is probably one of the best paid managers in the league.. if u we’re paying someone daft money too run a business an they came out with that performance I think any owner in the world would be wondering what the fucks going on.. especially after two years of being in the job
|
|
|
Post by Trouserdog on Dec 31, 2021 10:30:55 GMT
Quite simply, I think with a couple of the right players coming in we'd still have a chance of getting into the top 6. That might be down to how poor the division is rather than anything positive about us, but I don't see why we should write that chance off if it's presenting itself. Expecting, rather than hoping for, a top 6 place this season following last season's 14th (which some people were) for me was never realistic. When we still had the likes of Vokes, McClean et al on the books I did genuinely fear a season of real struggle; when we managed to sell Collins and pay those wasters off with the income, it gave us a bit of wriggle room for transfers. Once I'd seen the summer business we'd done and what we were able to spend, I thought a top-half season (flirting with the play-offs) would be the most likely outcome. At this point, having seen how well we started, I'd be disappointed with a slump like last year. For me though, if you reach the point where you don't want the manager to be given any more money then you've lost faith in him and it'd be better to change. I'm not at that point- I think his business has been mixed, but if a couple of million could be made available, or money for loans, I think we should do just that. I'm not as confident as you are of a top 6 finish and I never have been. I've accepted where we are a long while ago and I've been trying to look at it objectively. I've been looking at what the manager has been bringing in through the door, how he's been lining up and how he's been dealing with the adversity of injuries. Some of the signings I'm genuinely baffled with and it surrounds the change to a back three, but at the same time our business has pretty much hamstrung us if we want to go back to a 433 or 4231. We are limited pretty much to Fletcher up on his own if we do switch and he is far from perfect himself. Our 4M outlay on Surridge and Brown has wedded us to a top two for example. Neither player can lead a line and Brown doesn't have the nous to play effectively out wide. Then there is Doughty. A winger who is now completely redundant and almost devoid of match fitness and practice. That business accounts for nearly all of the managers spending to date. You can surely understand my reticence in giving him more money? I'm looking at how lacking in creativity we are week in, week out. Sure, FFP and injuries... We've lost Souttar and Powell to name two, two players absolutely key to how we setup. We can't go from that to what we are seeing now though can we, and have it as acceptable when your 2M striker signing sits on the bench after half a season and is lucky to see 10 minutes at the end of games? Anyway, FFP... There isn't a manager in this league that isn't hamstrung by either FFP, injuries or both at any stage of a campaign. Those that succeed are those that find ways to eek out performances and points when the team needs it and I'm starting to question this managers ability to do it. In short, the excuses are fast running out for me and he needs to step up and show he has the streetwise nous needed to get a serious push towards the top. If he can do that between now and the end of the season, change the side a bit, get the team creating more chances than we are now, get the team playing with more vigour at home then I will be a happy man. If that takes us to the top 6 then great, if not he's proven he deserves the chance to spend a bit more money in the summer and go again. It's surely a common sense approach adopted by most clubs, no? I'm not confident of a top 6 spot at all...I just think we still have a chance at getting one with some additions, a reduced-to-zero chance of getting one without them. It seems daft to effectively write off a chance of promotion just to see if MON can do something else tactically with an unbalanced squad suffering from injuries because whatever he does with them, 5-3-2, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 won't make enough of a difference for us to finish top 6. If you're not willing to give him money to spend now, what would change in the summer? He'll still have the same mixed, some would say poor, record in the market then that he'll have now. And what if he does something decent tactically between now and the end of the season but we miss out for the sake of signing a player in January? How frustrating would that be? For clarity, I'm not saying that he HAS to finish top 6 in order to keep his job because that's not the case at all. I just don't understand the argument that the club should effectively write the season off to trial whether MON can change his tactical plans.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Dec 31, 2021 10:32:42 GMT
Does he have the look and feel of a manager that will get you promoted? Is his 'brand of football' anywhere near what's needed to get us out of this league? Does he have the tactical nous when it really matters? Can he spot players that will come in and make a positive difference? Hmmm... No
|
|
|
Post by bingbang on Dec 31, 2021 10:32:50 GMT
Rooney. He is doing a brilliant job at Derby and has proved he could become a top top manager
|
|
|
Post by Trouserdog on Dec 31, 2021 10:34:54 GMT
A lot depends on what you've got in the building player-wise. I look at our squad without Powell and Souttar, and I just see a very mediocre bunch of players in whatever system you try and put them in. There are so many past their best that I can't see a new manager improving them. MON needs to try something different now- even just to show that he's willing to do it. I've always stuck up for him and I think he's done a great job here, but even I'm not going to put up with a run of performances like that until the end of the season. Starting to lose patience mate? Suppose that's fair enough. I think he's still got credit in teh bank. Injuries to critical players have cost us massively. I'm concerned by recent performances certainly. Thoroughly pissed off by how bad we were last night, but not at the point where I want to sack MON. If we spectacularly slump in the second half of the season I might think differently, but at 8th in the table I still think he's doing a decent job overall.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Dec 31, 2021 10:38:54 GMT
He's just said our attitude was good and if any team looked like they were going to go on and win it after we equalised it was us Deluded. Big step up Brechin City to Stoke tbf to him. Interspersed with years of being a plucky minnow where a 0-1 loss was not a bad result.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Dec 31, 2021 10:39:07 GMT
He's just said our attitude was good and if any team looked like they were going to go on and win it after we equalised it was us Deluded. Big step up Brechin City to Stoke tbf to him. Interspersed with years of being a plucky minnow where a 0-1 loss was not a bad result.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Dec 31, 2021 10:47:17 GMT
Need to get a new manager now so he gets 2 transfer windows before next season.
A lot of players' contracts are up this summer and we need another complete clear out.
That clear out applies to the staff as much as the players. Stoke clearly have a hopeless scouting set up; when did we ever "discover" a talent playing for another club? We have simply bought players on past reputation, who have invariably been past it. Or we have bought players who are just not up to the standard, like Brown - an athlete not a footballer.
10 shots at goal and just 1 on target in each of the last two matches is pathetic and as much down to the system and motivation of the players as it is the individual players' performances. We always come back from a break such as an international break poorly and last season's Covid break. We were good going into the break, but dreadful afterwards; that is down to management.
I lost faith in MON last season, then recovered it at the start of this season. Now I've lost it again - completely. I suspect the players will feel the same after last night's debacle. Unfortunately I also have no faith in the owners selecting a suitable manager, but to do nothing now, is a serious error. MON has had long enough to achieve better than the last two performances where the team has been totally outplayed.
|
|
|
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Dec 31, 2021 10:56:56 GMT
Need to get a new manager now so he gets 2 transfer windows before next season. A lot of players' contracts are up this summer and we need another complete clear out. That clear out applies to the staff as much as the players. Stoke clearly have a hopeless scouting set up; when did we ever "discover" a talent playing for another club? We have simply bought players on past reputation, who have invariably been past it. Or we have bought players who are just not up to the standard, like Brown - an athlete not a footballer. 10 shots at goal and just 1 on target in each of the last two matches is pathetic and as much down to the system and motivation of the players as it is the individual players' performances. We always come back from a break such as an international break poorly and last season's Covid break. We were good going into the break, but dreadful afterwards; that is down to management. I lost faith in MON last season, then recovered it at the start of this season. Now I've lost it again - completely. I suspect the players will feel the same after last night's debacle. Unfortunately I also have no faith in the owners selecting a suitable manager, but to do nothing now, is a serious error. MON has had long enough to achieve better than the last two performances where the team has been totally outplayed. Similar feelings only for me he stays because I have even less faith in the chances of the owners recruiting anyone much different. It’s what they go for, it’s also suits the mentality of a huge proportion of our fans. Far more interested in a manager who’ll stop you conceding goals than get you scoring them.
|
|
|
Post by hyaduck on Dec 31, 2021 11:00:17 GMT
Wow we’ve finally woke up. My opinion has been pretty clear about O’Neill since day one, nice bloke but completely outta his depth. We need to move quickly and not bring in another donkey dinosaur. I got abused every time I criticised O’Neill, seems a lot now agree!!!
|
|
|
Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 31, 2021 11:11:11 GMT
I do like O'Neill and I think we should back him this window and try to help him turn it around.
However, if we don't make the play offs this season there is no doubt what should happen, they are there for the taking and he's been backed enough to achieve that.
The board should already be looking at other candidates if we fail to make the play offs. Rooney and Rosenior are doing a superb job at Derby
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Dec 31, 2021 11:14:39 GMT
I'm not as confident as you are of a top 6 finish and I never have been. I've accepted where we are a long while ago and I've been trying to look at it objectively. I've been looking at what the manager has been bringing in through the door, how he's been lining up and how he's been dealing with the adversity of injuries. Some of the signings I'm genuinely baffled with and it surrounds the change to a back three, but at the same time our business has pretty much hamstrung us if we want to go back to a 433 or 4231. We are limited pretty much to Fletcher up on his own if we do switch and he is far from perfect himself. Our 4M outlay on Surridge and Brown has wedded us to a top two for example. Neither player can lead a line and Brown doesn't have the nous to play effectively out wide. Then there is Doughty. A winger who is now completely redundant and almost devoid of match fitness and practice. That business accounts for nearly all of the managers spending to date. You can surely understand my reticence in giving him more money? I'm looking at how lacking in creativity we are week in, week out. Sure, FFP and injuries... We've lost Souttar and Powell to name two, two players absolutely key to how we setup. We can't go from that to what we are seeing now though can we, and have it as acceptable when your 2M striker signing sits on the bench after half a season and is lucky to see 10 minutes at the end of games? Anyway, FFP... There isn't a manager in this league that isn't hamstrung by either FFP, injuries or both at any stage of a campaign. Those that succeed are those that find ways to eek out performances and points when the team needs it and I'm starting to question this managers ability to do it. In short, the excuses are fast running out for me and he needs to step up and show he has the streetwise nous needed to get a serious push towards the top. If he can do that between now and the end of the season, change the side a bit, get the team creating more chances than we are now, get the team playing with more vigour at home then I will be a happy man. If that takes us to the top 6 then great, if not he's proven he deserves the chance to spend a bit more money in the summer and go again. It's surely a common sense approach adopted by most clubs, no? I'm not confident of a top 6 spot at all...I just think we still have a chance at getting one with some additions, a reduced-to-zero chance of getting one without them. It seems daft to effectively write off a chance of promotion just to see if MON can do something else tactically with an unbalanced squad suffering from injuries because whatever he does with them, 5-3-2, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 won't make enough of a difference for us to finish top 6. If you're not willing to give him money to spend now, what would change in the summer? He'll still have the same mixed, some would say poor, record in the market then that he'll have now. And what if he does something decent tactically between now and the end of the season but we miss out for the sake of signing a player in January? How frustrating would that be? For clarity, I'm not saying that he HAS to finish top 6 in order to keep his job because that's not the case at all. I just don't understand the argument that the club should effectively write the season off to trial whether MON can change his tactical plans. It seems you are giving me no choice here. I'll get straight on the blower to Dennis and arrange a session with the Mamba with the axeing ritual to follow in due course... 😂
|
|
|
Post by Rick Grimes on Dec 31, 2021 11:17:58 GMT
I know we’ve had injuries to key players like Powell and Souttar but even so we’ve had some dreadful performances and lacking any real attacking intent.
I can’t see the point in sacking MON now though, he’s still done a good job to get us into this position. The big question is if he can push us on even further and he’s got enough in the bank for me to at least have the rest of the season to try and show that he can.
|
|
|
Post by questionable on Dec 31, 2021 11:50:17 GMT
For the life of me I can’t understand how on earth he has anything in the bank, it’s the same shit week in week out.
It’s an amazingly poor league and yet MON hasn’t got the foggiest on how to set up a half decent squad let alone how to adapt in game, just look at his substitutions last night, plan A wasn’t working and we have no plan B. Sick to my back teeth of hearing “well he’s a nice bloke”, my neighbour is but I wouldn’t want him to manage Stoke.
The bloke should have been sacked this morning, Holden put in charge until the of the season and yet again let Junior spin his magic, we’re literally shafted we truly are.
|
|