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Post by thevoid on Dec 30, 2021 22:32:06 GMT
He's just said our attitude was good and if any team looked like they were going to go on and win it after we equalised it was us Deluded
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Post by houstonsteve on Dec 30, 2021 22:34:06 GMT
He shouldn’t be the scapegoat on this though he needs to take some responsibility - We have a number of our best players out. Powell, Soutter, Sawyers, Thompson, Bursic. Unless you’re Man City that will effect you. When we had a strong side out we were third and flying people weren’t complaining then. - CM is the biggest problem. I’m not sure what he can do to change it till Jan. - The players let him down tonight plus a number have had covid I’m hoping in the case of Allen and Clucas that was the reason they were so woeful. im with you but there is a devils advocate position which is this all teams have key players out its 100% his midfield and he refused for half a season to even contemplate a DM. so he has January to fix that, lets see. My money is on he will gravitate to some floaty number 8/10 type.... did Stoke players get a 'worse' COVID because it seems most teams in England have had that. Presumably then no Derby players have had COVID. we are getting very creative on the excuses front now...... (note - not aimed at you personally) like I said elsewhere - if its a 5 year turnaround plan where incremental increases in the league position each year is acceptable (without promotion) is the plan - then tell us and we accept that. Interview question - How long do you need to turn this around? Cooper - 1 month Wilder - 1 month MON - 5 years.......
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Post by liathroid on Dec 30, 2021 22:34:33 GMT
He shouldn’t be the scapegoat on this though he needs to take some responsibility - We have a number of our best players out. Powell, Soutter, Sawyers, Thompson, Bursic. Unless you’re Man City that will effect you. When we had a strong side out we were third and flying people weren’t complaining then. - CM is the biggest problem. I’m not sure what he can do to change it till Jan. - The players let him down tonight plus a number have had covid I’m hoping in the case of Allen and Clucas that was the reason they were so woeful. stop talking sense
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Post by Squeekster on Dec 30, 2021 22:34:36 GMT
Well something needs to change, weather him or his attitude because it's not good!
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Post by loosestools on Dec 30, 2021 22:36:00 GMT
He shouldn’t be the scapegoat on this though he needs to take some responsibility - We have a number of our best players out. Powell, Soutter, Sawyers, Thompson, Bursic. Unless you’re Man City that will effect you. When we had a strong side out we were third and flying people weren’t complaining then. - CM is the biggest problem. I’m not sure what he can do to change it till Jan. - The players let him down tonight plus a number have had covid I’m hoping in the case of Allen and Clucas that was the reason they were so woeful. im with you but there is a devils advocate position which is this all teams have key players out its 100% his midfield and he refused for half a season to even contemplate a DM. so he has January to fix that, lets see. My money is on he will gravitate to some floaty number 8/10 type.... did Stoke players get a 'worse' COVID because it seems most teams in England have had that. Presumably then no Derby players have had COVID. we are getting very creative on the excuses front now...... (note - not aimed at you personally) like I said elsewhere - if its a 5 year turnaround plan where incremental increases in the league position each year is acceptable (without promotion) is the plan - then tell us and we accept that. Interview question - How long do you need to turn this around? Cooper - 1 month Wilder - 1 month MON - 5 years....... Yes Cooper!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 22:37:11 GMT
Sorry Michael, how many more times do we have to watch sides completely outplay us at home, even Derby... skint etc etc. Where is our passion, commitment, I could go on but probably like so many supporters I've just about had enough. And before I get slated, I first went in 1955 and me and her gave been season ticket holders for over 50 years. In all that time I can't remember such a disorganised and spineless team. Laugh out loud.
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Post by mozalini on Dec 30, 2021 22:39:24 GMT
I’m grateful for what O’Neil has done for the club - we were spiralling into the abyss - but the cracks are beginning to show. How long can you, when what is happening is clearly not working, continue to play the same tactics and players over and over again?
I’m still in two minds what the right decision is regarding his future; ultimately, there’s never going to be an easy answer.
When you look at the options, too, there are manages who are available that have won promotion from this league on a number of occasion: Farke and Jokanović. Considering that it seems these players need a rocket up their arses, the latter might be the more sensible option. Can I really see Stoke taking a punt on either of these though? Probably not.
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Post by bloodtypered on Dec 30, 2021 22:41:52 GMT
Sorry Michael, how many more times do we have to watch sides completely outplay us at home, even Derby... skint etc etc. Where is our passion, commitment, I could go on but probably like so many supporters I've just about had enough. And before I get slated, I first went in 1955 and me and her gave been season ticket holders for over 50 years. In all that time I can't remember such a disorganised and spineless team. Football isn't your game, obviously
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Post by sd22 on Dec 30, 2021 22:49:49 GMT
9 points out of the next six or else I want him gone. The pessimistic tactics are really starting to grind my gears.
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Post by loosestools on Dec 30, 2021 22:55:18 GMT
Sorry Michael, how many more times do we have to watch sides completely outplay us at home, even Derby... skint etc etc. Where is our passion, commitment, I could go on but probably like so many supporters I've just about had enough. And before I get slated, I first went in 1955 and me and her gave been season ticket holders for over 50 years. In all that time I can't remember such a disorganised and spineless team. Football isn't your game, obviously Silly comment.
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Post by blackpoolred on Dec 30, 2021 23:14:27 GMT
Sorry Michael, how many more times do we have to watch sides completely outplay us at home, even Derby... skint etc etc. Where is our passion, commitment, I could go on but probably like so many supporters I've just about had enough. And before I get slated, I first went in 1955 and me and her gave been season ticket holders for over 50 years. In all that time I can't remember such a disorganised and spineless team. You can't remember such a disorganised and spineless team - really? I think you are either lying about the length of time you have been supporting the club or have a short memory. Did you think we would be on 35pts at the halfway point after selling 18 players pre-season? Was a shocking performance tonight admittedly, possibly an insight into the mentality of the club and players: If we had ambition you would have thought they would have been up for it tonight and really gone for it and been prepared and out of the blocks - it was a big 3pts up for grabs and would have put us back within touching distance, instead we got a team that looked like they had too much xmas cheer and wanted to be anywhere other than there. I am a fan of our manager, but it is a big second half of the season for him, we faded last year once we had got to the relative safety mark. He needs to add some quality in the window if possible, but if he can't do that then he has to rally his troops to put in a shift and try and a least improve on last year and get us in the top half and playing some progressive nogger. We looked a good team, at home, early doors and played at a high tempo culminating in the game against WBA and I really thought we could be a handful for everyone at the 365 and have a great home record this season, but since WBA we have been lackluster and just look like we are playing not to get beat - all rather gutless to be honest. I get people's disappointment on tonight's showing, but 35pts from the 23 games played is a great return given all of the circumstances. Let us see if the manager/club can bring in some quality and see if MON can move us forward from a team/club that is just happy to be in the division and a bottom half team, to a team that looks like it can challenge the top half/six over the course of a full season. Shocking performance tonight, but try and remember where we are in terms of who we can sign, how many players we have sold/injured and where we were when MON arrived and get some perspective - we are moving forward/improving and building under MON. That said if we just fade like we did last season in the second half then I will probably be asking questions too.
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Post by pieofpeter on Dec 30, 2021 23:25:13 GMT
Unless he turns it around it started to feel to me as it was the beginning of the end. Reminded me of the ending of the Hughes era. Who comes in though if he does go?
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Post by loosestools on Dec 30, 2021 23:32:16 GMT
Sorry Michael, how many more times do we have to watch sides completely outplay us at home, even Derby... skint etc etc. Where is our passion, commitment, I could go on but probably like so many supporters I've just about had enough. And before I get slated, I first went in 1955 and me and her gave been season ticket holders for over 50 years. In all that time I can't remember such a disorganised and spineless team. You can't remember such a disorganised and spineless team - really? I think you are either lying about the length of time you have been supporting the club or have a short memory. Did you think we would be on 35pts at the halfway point after selling 18 players pre-season? Was a shocking performance tonight admittedly, possibly an insight into the mentality of the club and players: If we had ambition you would have thought they would have been up for it tonight and really gone for it and been prepared and out of the blocks - it was a big 3pts up for grabs and would have put us back within touching distance, instead we got a team that looked like they had too much xmas cheer and wanted to be anywhere other than there. I am a fan of our manager, but it is a big second half of the season for him, we faded last year once we had got to the relative safety mark. He needs to add some quality in the window if possible, but if he can't do that then he has to rally his troops to put in a shift and try and a least improve on last year and get us in the top half and playing some progressive nogger. We looked a good team, at home, early doors and played at a high tempo culminating in the game against WBA and I really thought we could be a handful for everyone at the 365 and have a great home record this season, but since WBA we have been lackluster and just look like we are playing not to get beat - all rather gutless to be honest. I get people's disappointment on tonight's showing, but 35pts from the 23 games played is a great return given all of the circumstances. Let us see if the manager/club can bring in some quality and see if MON can move us forward from a team/club that is just happy to be in the division and a bottom half team, to a team that looks like it can challenge the top half/six over the course of a full season. Shocking performance tonight, but try and remember where we are in terms of who we can sign, how many players we have sold/injured and where we were when MON arrived and get some perspective - we are moving forward/improving and building under MON. That said if we just fade like we did last season in the second half then I will probably be asking questions too. How is Rooney motivating his squad of players? Please answer this question, its not hard?
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Post by march4 on Dec 30, 2021 23:58:15 GMT
Hmmmm!
I think we are reaching the point where O’Neill is likely to be sacked in 2022. We fell away badly last season and there are signs we are doing so again. If we don’t make the playoffs, surely he will be gone.
History has taught us two things when our managers reach this position; 1. Dithering over their dismissal (Hughes and Jones) simply makes matters worse.
2. If we don’t have a replacement lined up to take over straight away then things deteriorate very quickly (Hughes to Lambert).
Putting those two together suggests the Board should now be looking for a new manager quietly just in case O’Neill suffers a poor January and our best hope of promotion is a new broom. How do you find a new broom? Good question, but M’boro found one.
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Post by kjpt140v on Dec 31, 2021 0:01:24 GMT
When you have a squad thet decide to switch off, a long list of injuries, a mistake like Clucas', then it's difficult to blame the manager.
It's time for the manager to get tough, if players are not willing to give everything for the team, then drop them and give a chance to those who will.
Who do we replace him with? I think we need the Chair to be far more proactive.
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Post by liathroid on Dec 31, 2021 0:02:17 GMT
Hmmmm! I think we are reaching the point where O’Neill is likely to be sacked in 2022. We fell away badly last season and there are signs we are doing so again. If we don’t make the playoffs, surely he will be gone. History has taught us two things when our managers reach this position; 1. Dithering over their dismissal (Hughes and Jones) simply makes matters worse. 2. If we don’t have a replacement lined up to take over straight away then things deteriorate very quickly (Hughes to Lambert). Putting those two together suggests the Board should now be looking for a new manager quietly just in case O’Neill suffers a poor January and our best hope of promotion is a new broom. How do you find a new broom? Good question, but M’boro found one. we cant afford to sack him
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Post by BuckRogers on Dec 31, 2021 0:05:06 GMT
The days of having players who ran with the ball and had shots on goal, are a distant memory. Apart from the odd game it's been boring this season. No spark at aĺl going forward .
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Post by dirtygary69 on Dec 31, 2021 0:06:57 GMT
I’ve always been a big fan of his but there are a few too many things now that make me think he won’t take us much further. That might be unfair, as there might not be anyone who could with what we have at our disposal right now, but this is the first time I’ve majorly doubted him as being the right man for us. He was certainly the man to stop the rot and get us back to a solid foundation and I would bloody love for him to take us even further, because I think he’s been great. I just think the next step might be one too far.
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Post by loosestools on Dec 31, 2021 0:11:06 GMT
I think Id rather watch Peterborough, they looked positive and entertaining, better than the shit we have been watching for the past weeks,
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Post by march4 on Dec 31, 2021 0:12:32 GMT
Hmmmm! I think we are reaching the point where O’Neill is likely to be sacked in 2022. We fell away badly last season and there are signs we are doing so again. If we don’t make the playoffs, surely he will be gone. History has taught us two things when our managers reach this position; 1. Dithering over their dismissal (Hughes and Jones) simply makes matters worse. 2. If we don’t have a replacement lined up to take over straight away then things deteriorate very quickly (Hughes to Lambert). Putting those two together suggests the Board should now be looking for a new manager quietly just in case O’Neill suffers a poor January and our best hope of promotion is a new broom. How do you find a new broom? Good question, but M’boro found one. we cant afford to sack him Financially??
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Post by Trouserdog on Dec 31, 2021 0:19:29 GMT
He's had shit luck with injuries these past two years, serious FFP issues to deal with, and has turned us from a basket case into a stable mid-table team.
Whether he can push us on from this level we're at now- I don't know. What I am sure about though is that Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola would struggle to get an unbalanced squad like ours performing to the level of a top 6 side. We have a lot of bad players in this squad, and I don't see how a new manager is going to transform them. I mean, what the fuck is anyone going to do with Sam Clucas, Danny Batth etc? They're in the side because there's no-one else, but how are you supposed to utilise them differently or coach them to improve them?
There are things I believe MON should do differently, but I don't see a switch to a new formation or shuffling personnel around working like a magic bullet. If we sack him, at best whoever comes in will probably finish about where MON will (at present I'd guess 10th-12th) while if we make another disastrous Jones-type appointment then Jesus- we could drop like a stone.
Tonight was abysmal. The tactics were wrong, the players were bloody awful, and everyone associated with the performance needs to know that it isn't acceptable. However, decisions about managerial sackings need to be made with calm, clear heads, not on the back of a shit home display when everyone's raging.
Keep calm, see where we are at the end of the season then weigh up the pros and cons. We need new players in the building quickly, as that's the only way we're going to avert a slump. A new manager at this point isn't going to make much difference.
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Post by houstonsteve on Dec 31, 2021 0:29:07 GMT
Sorry Michael, how many more times do we have to watch sides completely outplay us at home, even Derby... skint etc etc. Where is our passion, commitment, I could go on but probably like so many supporters I've just about had enough. And before I get slated, I first went in 1955 and me and her gave been season ticket holders for over 50 years. In all that time I can't remember such a disorganised and spineless team. You can't remember such a disorganised and spineless team - really? I think you are either lying about the length of time you have been supporting the club or have a short memory. Did you think we would be on 35pts at the halfway point after selling 18 players pre-season? Was a shocking performance tonight admittedly, possibly an insight into the mentality of the club and players: If we had ambition you would have thought they would have been up for it tonight and really gone for it and been prepared and out of the blocks - it was a big 3pts up for grabs and would have put us back within touching distance, instead we got a team that looked like they had too much xmas cheer and wanted to be anywhere other than there. I am a fan of our manager, but it is a big second half of the season for him, we faded last year once we had got to the relative safety mark. He needs to add some quality in the window if possible, but if he can't do that then he has to rally his troops to put in a shift and try and a least improve on last year and get us in the top half and playing some progressive nogger. We looked a good team, at home, early doors and played at a high tempo culminating in the game against WBA and I really thought we could be a handful for everyone at the 365 and have a great home record this season, but since WBA we have been lackluster and just look like we are playing not to get beat - all rather gutless to be honest. I get people's disappointment on tonight's showing, but 35pts from the 23 games played is a great return given all of the circumstances. Let us see if the manager/club can bring in some quality and see if MON can move us forward from a team/club that is just happy to be in the division and a bottom half team, to a team that looks like it can challenge the top half/six over the course of a full season. Shocking performance tonight, but try and remember where we are in terms of who we can sign, how many players we have sold/injured and where we were when MON arrived and get some perspective - we are moving forward/improving and building under MON. That said if we just fade like we did last season in the second half then I will probably be asking questions too. you always make good points but its not just tonight is it when it comes to performances. The whole team switches off for a full game (and its happened a number of times). Anyone can have an off day, but the whole team, for a number of games, its odd. and there are many managers that have championship teams getting this many points +/-.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Dec 31, 2021 0:31:40 GMT
........we do need some “dogs of war” spirit back at the very least - that’s how TP got us promoted by playing to our strengths and recognising our limitations, making up for it with a fighting spirit and pride in wearing the shirt - this lot don’t give a shit and the manager seems incapable of addressing this terminal apathy......... Need some naked head-butting and pigs heads in lockers ........ No we don't, it's 2022 in less than two days. Move on. Even Wimbledon don't bother with all that 'freezing the away dressing room' shite these days. We're supposed to be a professional football club, not a pissed up frat party Fuck me - I wasn’t being literal so don’t worry about tarnishing the gleaming new-age professionalism you seem to think we’re on the verge of ........ If you think that the prevailing attitude and levels of commitment are satisfactory (and indeed “professional”) then that’s your prerogative but some may disagree and would like to see a bit more fight and fire in bellies, old fashioned as it may be.......
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Post by loosestools on Dec 31, 2021 0:31:56 GMT
He's had shit luck with injuries these past two years, serious FFP issues to deal with, and has turned us from a basket case into a stable mid-table team. Whether he can push us on from this level we're at now- I don't know. What I am sure about though is that Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola would struggle to get an unbalanced squad like ours performing to the level of a top 6 side. We have a lot of bad players in this squad, and I don't see how a new manager is going to transform them. I mean, what the fuck is anyone going to do with Sam Clucas, Danny Batth etc? They're in the side because there's no-one else, but how are you supposed to utilise them differently or coach them to improve them? There are things I believe MON should do differently, but I don't see a switch to a new formation or shuffling personnel around working like a magic bullet. If we sack him, at best whoever comes in will probably finish about where MON will (at present I'd guess 10th-12th) while if we make another disastrous Jones-type appointment then Jesus- we could drop like a stone. Tonight was abysmal. The tactics were wrong, the players were bloody awful, and everyone associated with the performance needs to know that it isn't acceptable. However, decisions about managerial sackings need to be made with calm, clear heads, not on the back of a shit home display when everyone's raging. Keep calm, see where we are at the end of the season then weigh up the pros and cons. We need new players in the building quickly, as that's the only way we're going to avert a slump. A new manager at this point isn't going to make much difference. OK some very good points - but what do you think could happen if say a Steve Cooper type was brought in, do you think that type of appointment would make the difference, because Forrest were awful until they changed their negative manager.
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Post by houstonsteve on Dec 31, 2021 0:32:30 GMT
He's had shit luck with injuries these past two years, serious FFP issues to deal with, and has turned us from a basket case into a stable mid-table team. Whether he can push us on from this level we're at now- I don't know. What I am sure about though is that Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola would struggle to get an unbalanced squad like ours performing to the level of a top 6 side. We have a lot of bad players in this squad, and I don't see how a new manager is going to transform them. I mean, what the fuck is anyone going to do with Sam Clucas, Danny Batth etc? They're in the side because there's no-one else, but how are you supposed to utilise them differently or coach them to improve them? There are things I believe MON should do differently, but I don't see a switch to a new formation or shuffling personnel around working like a magic bullet. If we sack him, at best whoever comes in will probably finish about where MON will (at present I'd guess 10th-12th) while if we make another disastrous Jones-type appointment then Jesus- we could drop like a stone. Tonight was abysmal. The tactics were wrong, the players were bloody awful, and everyone associated with the performance needs to know that it isn't acceptable. However, decisions about managerial sackings need to be made with calm, clear heads, not on the back of a shit home display when everyone's raging. Keep calm, see where we are at the end of the season then weigh up the pros and cons. We need new players in the building quickly, as that's the only way we're going to avert a slump. A new manager at this point isn't going to make much difference. I thinking sacking talk is silly but if we freefall like last year then it becomes a reasonable point of view, irrespective if he gets additional players in January. He has been very well backed for a manager in this league.
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Post by loosestools on Dec 31, 2021 0:35:49 GMT
Swop the word sacking - refer to changing, it sounds better,
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Post by Trouserdog on Dec 31, 2021 0:38:28 GMT
He's had shit luck with injuries these past two years, serious FFP issues to deal with, and has turned us from a basket case into a stable mid-table team. Whether he can push us on from this level we're at now- I don't know. What I am sure about though is that Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola would struggle to get an unbalanced squad like ours performing to the level of a top 6 side. We have a lot of bad players in this squad, and I don't see how a new manager is going to transform them. I mean, what the fuck is anyone going to do with Sam Clucas, Danny Batth etc? They're in the side because there's no-one else, but how are you supposed to utilise them differently or coach them to improve them? There are things I believe MON should do differently, but I don't see a switch to a new formation or shuffling personnel around working like a magic bullet. If we sack him, at best whoever comes in will probably finish about where MON will (at present I'd guess 10th-12th) while if we make another disastrous Jones-type appointment then Jesus- we could drop like a stone. Tonight was abysmal. The tactics were wrong, the players were bloody awful, and everyone associated with the performance needs to know that it isn't acceptable. However, decisions about managerial sackings need to be made with calm, clear heads, not on the back of a shit home display when everyone's raging. Keep calm, see where we are at the end of the season then weigh up the pros and cons. We need new players in the building quickly, as that's the only way we're going to avert a slump. A new manager at this point isn't going to make much difference. OK some very good points - but what do you think could happen if say a Steve Cooper type was brought in, do you think that type of appointment would make the difference, because Forrest were awful until they changed their negative manager. A lot depends on what you've got in the building player-wise. I look at our squad without Powell and Souttar, and I just see a very mediocre bunch of players in whatever system you try and put them in. There are so many past their best that I can't see a new manager improving them. MON needs to try something different now- even just to show that he's willing to do it. I've always stuck up for him and I think he's done a great job here, but even I'm not going to put up with a run of performances like that until the end of the season.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 31, 2021 0:42:44 GMT
OK some very good points - but what do you think could happen if say a Steve Cooper type was brought in, do you think that type of appointment would make the difference, because Forrest were awful until they changed their negative manager. A lot depends on what you've got in the building player-wise. I look at our squad without Powell and Souttar, and I just see a very mediocre bunch of players in whatever system you try and put them in. There are so many past their best that I can't see a new manager improving them. MON needs to try something different now- even just to show that he's willing to do it. I've always stuck up for him and I think he's done a great job here, but even I'm not going to put up with a run of performances like that until the end of the season. For me the big issue is that a lot of the crap players that aren't good enough are his signings. Millions chucked on brown, surridge, two players who can't even trap a ball. He hasn't signed a player yet that you can hang your hat on and day he's a crucial player to the team. And he's signed a lot. Just don't see where we are going, what he wants to do. He's playing a formation totally ill suited to the players he's got available
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Post by loosestools on Dec 31, 2021 0:43:40 GMT
OK some very good points - but what do you think could happen if say a Steve Cooper type was brought in, do you think that type of appointment would make the difference, because Forrest were awful until they changed their negative manager. A lot depends on what you've got in the building player-wise. I look at our squad without Powell and Souttar, and I just see a very mediocre bunch of players in whatever system you try and put them in. There are so many past their best that I can't see a new manager improving them. MON needs to try something different now- even just to show that he's willing to do it. I've always stuck up for him and I think he's done a great job here, but even I'm not going to put up with a run of performances like that until the end of the season. I suppose its difficult to polish a turd - or two, or three. But most other teams in this League have players I have never heard of, and they come and show us up, why?
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Post by Trouserdog on Dec 31, 2021 0:53:06 GMT
A lot depends on what you've got in the building player-wise. I look at our squad without Powell and Souttar, and I just see a very mediocre bunch of players in whatever system you try and put them in. There are so many past their best that I can't see a new manager improving them. MON needs to try something different now- even just to show that he's willing to do it. I've always stuck up for him and I think he's done a great job here, but even I'm not going to put up with a run of performances like that until the end of the season. For me the big issue is that a lot of the crap players that aren't good enough are his signings. Millions chucked on brown, surridge, two players who can't even trap a ball. He hasn't signed a player yet that you can hang your hat on and day he's a crucial player to the team. And he's signed a lot. Just don't see where we are going, what he wants to do. He's playing a formation totally ill suited to the players he's got available I think his signings have been a mixed bag, some good, some not so good, but to get up on the kind of budget we're operating with, we need to be doing better. He put a lot of stock in the 5-3-2 system, and it worked well for a while, but now it's stopped working he has to act and do something about it.
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