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Post by dirtygary69 on Oct 30, 2021 20:17:49 GMT
Or was it closer than we realised? I think we could all tell it was much more expansive and 3 at the back was here to stay, but I thought it looked perfectly balance earlier on. Was it only ever on the edge of being good, and actually quite susceptible to being easily broken down? Cardiff today did literally nothing to get back into that but we just looked so open and disjointed.
I really thought that formation looked like working for us, but think it now needs solidifying and making more ‘boring’, especially with Powell being out for a while.
Not sure what’s gone on, but we’ve fucked this month up beyond comprehension really. It’s a fucking good job we got 3 today or we’d have 0 points again.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 30, 2021 20:27:22 GMT
I honestly think they’ve taken the Powell news hard.
I was shocked at the fan reaction. It was like he had died.
And yes he’s important, our best player but we have more than enough to compensate.
Yet I don’t get the feeling that the fans and squad don’t believe it.
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Post by ersaurebot 1, 000, 000 views on Oct 30, 2021 20:32:37 GMT
Cardiff should have been 2-0 up before Brown scored
We were lucky today
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Post by dirtygary69 on Oct 30, 2021 21:03:03 GMT
Cardiff should have been 2-0 up before Brown scored We were lucky today No doubt it was also the most fortunate 3-0 I had seen before they got back into it. |
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Post by march4 on Oct 30, 2021 21:23:44 GMT
Cardiff should have been 2-0 up before Brown scored We were lucky today Had they scored 5 or 6 we would have had no complaints. |
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Post by Ron on Oct 30, 2021 22:19:35 GMT
It’s no shock to me. The way he’s set up in midfield has been shite season long. But the defensive problems are astonishing.
Post wba - I genuinely thought that was as good a performance we’d seen in a while.
Until 70 mins at bramall lane we were totally in control, should have been 2 up and never looked like losing.
Yet we conceded 2 in a matter of minutes and that was that.
We’ve never looked forward since.
Wether it be inept management or players inexperience- something has GOT to change.
The fall from grace has been rapid and disappointing. I, and many others, didn’t see it coming.
Yes this division is mad- but that today was abhorrent. The mentality to fold like that is the worry. No leader out there. The captain is an absolutely wet.
The team have no bottle at all.
Mentality is something built. We’re weak soft. And every other team knows it now!
Where we go from here I don’t know- but this persistence with the formation and the personnel is bafdaling.
Oh and as for everyone’s golden boy Tymon- was utter shite today- and had been for a while. Don’t believe the hype. Improved yes- but can’t defend. Poor awareness.
Plus Souttar- has looke appalling 4 games running now. Again- don’t believe the hype.
Chester- yes was shite too- will get the stick, so will Allen ( again rightly so) but the clubs young darlings really ain’t all that!
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Post by sd22 on Oct 30, 2021 22:46:22 GMT
Playing with 2 up top is an issue with no Powell. When they run the channels, we have no one arriving late into it the box, a la Powell. Personally, I can’t see out results improving unless we change out system or until Powell comes back.
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Post by proudstokie on Oct 30, 2021 23:05:17 GMT
Playing with 2 up top is an issue with no Powell. When they run the channels, we have no one arriving late into it the box, a la Powell. Personally, I can’t see out results improving unless we change out system or until Powell comes back. Today had nothing to do with Powell. We we’re 3-0 up at home and Fletcher more than made up for Powell’s absence. Today was about a a manager that failed to be pro-active, a midfield that went missing and defence that didn’t do it’s job. With 3 at the back you can’t afford two midfielders ahead of play and a defence that doesn’t follow it’s men, you’re always going to be asking for it. |
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Post by stokiedan17 on Oct 30, 2021 23:31:59 GMT
Playing with 2 up top is an issue with no Powell. When they run the channels, we have no one arriving late into it the box, a la Powell. Personally, I can’t see out results improving unless we change out system or until Powell comes back. Today had nothing to do with Powell. We we’re 3-0 up at home and Fletcher more than made up for Powell’s absence. Today was about a a manager that failed to be pro-active, a midfield that went missing and defence that didn’t do it’s job. With 3 at the back you can’t afford two midfielders ahead of play and a defence that doesn’t follow it’s men, you’re always going to be asking for it. We were winning 3-0! How is that the managers fault! He was about to bring on subs then 5 mins later they’d scored 3 goals! You just have no time to react to that |
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Post by scfcrmagic on Oct 31, 2021 1:22:44 GMT
Our defence seem to start off okay ..but as the game goes on they suddenly seem incapable of marking their man…the opposition break, they take the ball down the wing and put a decent cross in with two forwards coming in like trains . … yet we in the latter stages break down the wing ..cross goes in and no bugger is there …come on lads …think “ thundering train”.
We are also this season incapable of defending free kicks on the edge of the box ….we got lucky with the one Bursik ducked for…it hit the post ..ffs..
Don’t understand it …we started off well and got better …then let them back in and fell apart .grrrr
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Post by xchpotter on Oct 31, 2021 1:31:19 GMT
It’s been there since day one of the season and seasons before that. I wasn’t taken in by our early league position where I think unusually for us we got off to a flier for a change. The league is sorting itself out and revealing just what we are. We will continue to fall away and level up around mid to above mid table and that’s our lot. There is plenty to sort out in the team and management. It will be a long time before I have any confidence in the team and the way it is being managed to think realistically about promotion.
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Post by cotswoldstokie on Oct 31, 2021 6:10:06 GMT
A part of the mess got to be MON " Give the Ball to Powell." It doesnt work having a so called superior player. Unless it Fuller, but names like shaqiri, Arnautovic etc showed it doesnt always work in the long term. Selling Nathan and obi mikel leaving not helped. OBI one left to get huge money in the middle east - he wasnt sold Nathan was sold to balance the books - fantastic player but the car crash of the previous regimes’ signings meant we needed to balance the books or else take a points deduction or worse |
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 31, 2021 7:58:01 GMT
It’s been coming since day one, we just had a couple of decent results which papered over the cracks:
Our goalkeepers are dreadful
We have a one man defence
No one in midfield who can run and tackle
No real width
Moving forward, we look good at times and are capable of scoring goals which is an improvement that should see us finish 8th-10th.
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Post by wuzza on Oct 31, 2021 8:43:57 GMT
I think we have been treading a fine line all season.
You need very good players to get this system to work - especially at the back and although we have some half decent Championship defenders ( on a good day) we ain’t of a standard to produce the goods consistently and this is being horribly exposed now some of the initial confidence has crumbled.
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Post by citynickscfc on Oct 31, 2021 8:50:59 GMT
3 at the back is really a 5... And then we had 2 defensive midfielders. There should have been a permanent wall of 7 players for them to get through, and the whole team should have dropped deep with us relying on their overcommitment to try to get back into the game. That's what EVERY decent manager does and every decently organised team does at 3-0 up! Their next nice was predictable! We should have turned into a counter team with 1 up top and 7 in defence (2 deep lying DM) perfect chance for Campbell to nick one with absolutely no pressure.
Just how we fucked that up I still don't know. T.P. would be headbutting each player naked and having nightmares about that. We are in freefall make no mistake. Next game fail to win and I think it will only get worse as our crisis of confidence persists from last season.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2021 8:52:26 GMT
Priority is a midfielder. Maybe two. We probably 'need' three.
Allen, Thompson, Clucas, Tymon (if you want to use him in there as an option) are never going to get you promoted. Sawyers, well he's not our player. But he's proven in recent times that he's probably better than all those others I listed, anyway.
Then onto the defence. It's shit. I think the individuals in there are better than we're seeing, but are being shown up time and again, by a system that the manager seems set on, but doesn't work unless you know what you're doing. We've got people pining for Fox to come back. It's painful.
We're seeing now, those borderline players that looked decent when all was going well. It's easy to look good in a side playing with confidence.
We're fragile mentally, that's obvious looking at the last 3 games. Add into the mix a system that doesn't suit the players, and some players that are simply not good enough.
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Post by jarvinski on Oct 31, 2021 9:02:35 GMT
Back four
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Post by prudhoesnose on Oct 31, 2021 9:04:48 GMT
I see it as: a team out of form, full of young players, with no confidence.
Not a good mix.
Senior players like Allen & Chester should be taking charge (but, as we know, they just hide.)
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Post by kustokie on Oct 31, 2021 12:48:51 GMT
I think we have been treading a fine line all season. You need very good players to get this system to work - especially at the back and although we have some half decent Championship defenders ( on a good day) we ain’t of a standard to produce the goods consistently and this is being horribly exposed now some of the initial confidence has crumbled. It’s a combination of lack of confidence, poor defenders (Souttar excepted) and other teams having had time identify our weaknesses. The slide started when teams worked out how to neutralize Tymon and Smith; now they know how to get behind the defense and cause havoc in the six-yards box because the center backs are narcoleptic. They also know both our goalkeepers are very error prone and any shot on target has a better than average chance of going in. edit: plus the midfield is a shambles and built around the wrong player. |
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Post by Fred Merger on Oct 31, 2021 12:56:46 GMT
It’s been coming since day one, we just had a couple of decent results which papered over the cracks: Our goalkeepers are dreadful We have a one man defence No one in midfield who can run and tackle No real width Moving forward, we look good at times and are capable of scoring goals which is an improvement that should see us finish 8th-10th. Agree with all that apart from 8-10th more like 12-14 th |
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Post by wuzza on Oct 31, 2021 13:21:10 GMT
I think we have been treading a fine line all season. You need very good players to get this system to work - especially at the back and although we have some half decent Championship defenders ( on a good day) we ain’t of a standard to produce the goods consistently and this is being horribly exposed now some of the initial confidence has crumbled. It’s a combination of lack of confidence, poor defenders (Souttar excepted) and other teams having had time identify our weaknesses. The slide started when teams worked out how to neutralize Tymon and Smith; now they know how to get behind the defense and cause havoc in the six-yards box because the center backs are narcoleptic. They also know both our goalkeepers are very error prone and any shot on target has a better than average chance of going in. edit: plus the midfield is a shambles and built around the wrong player. I certainly get the feeling a few coaches in the league are rubbing their hands at the prospect of their fixture against us. |
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Post by march4 on Oct 31, 2021 13:26:36 GMT
It’s a combination of lack of confidence, poor defenders (Souttar excepted) and other teams having had time identify our weaknesses. The slide started when teams worked out how to neutralize Tymon and Smith; now they know how to get behind the defense and cause havoc in the six-yards box because the center backs are narcoleptic. They also know both our goalkeepers are very error prone and any shot on target has a better than average chance of going in. edit: plus the midfield is a shambles and built around the wrong player. I certainly get the feeling a few coaches in the league are rubbing their hands at the prospect of their fixture against us. If we capitulated against a team who had lost the previous 8 games then goodness only knows what we will do against a team who have been winning recently. |
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Post by sheds1862 on Oct 31, 2021 13:36:43 GMT
I certainly get the feeling a few coaches in the league are rubbing their hands at the prospect of their fixture against us. If we capitulated against a team who had lost the previous 8 games then goodness only knows what we will do against a team who have been winning recently. The more you think about it the more incredible it was . 8 successive defeats, 3-0 down. You'd be expected to think a 6-0 job on the cards as they are at such a low ebb both ability wise and confidence wise. Staggering collapse. |
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Oct 31, 2021 13:40:44 GMT
We have no strength in midfield.
We have 3 players (powell. Vranic. Sawyers)after what I think should only be one place. Playing behind a front 2.
We need 2 defensive minded midfielders to sit and hold the midfield together. Allen. Thompson. clucas are not the answer.
We are not liverpool who can have 2 fullbacks bombing forward for 90 minutes both tyman and smith have to wake up and just be prepared to spend 10 minutes sitting deep to take the sting out of other teams and block the spaces up.
Until then we're gonna keep getting caught...teams have worked us out..its up to MON now to come up with an answer.
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Post by jonnybravo on Oct 31, 2021 14:57:01 GMT
The first ten minutes Cardiff broke through 3 times only poor finishing stopped them going 2 or 3 up
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Post by kustokie on Oct 31, 2021 15:44:20 GMT
We have no strength in midfield. We have 3 players (powell. Vranic. Sawyers)after what I think should only be one place. Playing behind a front 2. We need 2 defensive minded midfielders to sit and hold the midfield together. Allen. Thompson. clucas are not the answer. We are not liverpool who can have 2 fullbacks bombing forward for 90 minutes both tyman and smith have to wake up and just be prepared to spend 10 minutes sitting deep to take the sting out of other teams and block the spaces up. Until then we're gonna keep getting caught...teams have worked us out..its up to MON now to come up with an answer. Nail on head. Vrancic is a decent player and he has solved our dead ball problems. However, he is a poor man’s version of Powell, whose best position is sitting behind the front two, to either play through balls into the box or drift in to the far post. Therefore, leaving Vrancic out of the side yesterday was criminal. At the risk of beating a dead horse, this slide will only be reversed when MON wakes up and realizes building the midfield around Allen is not the answer. Allen’s lack of discipline means he can only think of himself and not the team, which in turn, means he is incapable of staying in position and seeing the big picture. Those characteristics make him very ill-suited to the role of captain. Until Powell comes back, I’d play Thompson, Sawyers and Vrancic in mid-field behind Brown and Fletcher (or Campbell, once he’s fully match fit). The Powell or Vrancic dilemma is postponed until the New Year but there’s no room for both unless Powell plays up front, which raises a new problem: who do you drop Brown, Fletcher or Campbell? Surridge is not good enough to make the bench when Campbell, Powell and Sima are fully fit - he deceived everyone at the start of the season, but his scoring record over the long term has been very poor, which is why Bournemouth let him go. If everyone were fit, which is unlikely, my best team would be Bursik or Davies (both error prone but it’s all we have) Wilmot Souttar Batth Smith Sawyers Powell Thompson Tymon Campbell Brown |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Oct 31, 2021 17:56:27 GMT
If we capitulated against a team who had lost the previous 8 games then goodness only knows what we will do against a team who have been winning recently. The more you think about it the more incredible it was . 8 successive defeats, 3-0 down. You'd be expected to think a 6-0 job on the cards as they are at such a low ebb both ability wise and confidence wise. Staggering collapse. We were lucky the linesman was at hand, otherwise it would have been disastrous!!! |
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Post by numpty40 on Oct 31, 2021 18:09:57 GMT
I think we caught a few sides unaware early doors and our wingbacks weren't paid too much attention.
The opposition have since pushed high and wide on the wing backs and they are completely ineffective.
Sadly Tymon has shrunk into his fragile shell again.
Unfortunately it seems like MON is hoping everything will be OK in the end and persists with this inflexible system.
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Post by PenkPonther on Oct 31, 2021 20:09:54 GMT
I can answer EXACTLY where this bad run has come from...
At 4:35pm on October 16th, with Stoke in great form and 1-0 up away to Sheffield United, HeadsGoUp posted on this very message board,
"We really are rather good, aren't we?"
!!!
I muttered out loud as soon as I read it "For God's sake don't say that..."
2 minutes later Sheffield United scored, and we've been on a shit run ever since! 😠😭
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Post by fentonstokie1 on Oct 31, 2021 21:05:44 GMT
We are playing a featherweight central midfield that is decent in possession but next to useless when an attack breaks down. It's so predictable a quick ball forward and a stampede through an empty wilderness into our penalty area.
Cardiff's early nerves saved us from an embarrassing first half, we were very fortunate to be 3-0 at half time and very fortunate we came away with a point. We got away with it early in the season but now our weaknesses are well and truly sussed, O'Neil has got to put some steel into our powder puff midfield as we do not have sufficient fire power to concede every game and outscore the opposition.
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