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Post by gingerninja on Oct 17, 2021 20:35:02 GMT
If used as an attacking midfielder solely, he could be a real match winner moving forward. Has so much to offer and plays passes and angles nobody else can..
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Post by numpty40 on Oct 17, 2021 20:43:05 GMT
I know i'm going to be in the minority here, especially after yesterday, but I think Sawyers is better deeper. He looks better collecting the ball from the back four and has the time and space to see the angles and dictate play from deeper.
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Post by BuzzB on Oct 17, 2021 20:48:35 GMT
No doubting his quality on the ball, he makes stuff happen but his demeanour makes him look lazy. The lack of backtracking without any urgency yesterday stood out like a sore thumb, yet, during that 25 minute spell in the second half he looked like a worldbeater. Always looks like he plays with a spliff on! So laid back. MON has to find the right formular in that midfield, when we are on song though we do look bloody good!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2021 20:51:17 GMT
Even a blind man can see there’s a classy player in there but it’s worthless when you factor in their winner yesterday. His tracking back was criminal.
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Sawyers
Oct 17, 2021 21:01:20 GMT
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Post by lordb on Oct 17, 2021 21:01:20 GMT
Even a blind man can see there’s a classy player in there but it’s worthless when you factor in their winner yesterday. His tracking back was criminal. Super player on the ball, simply doesn't do his job off it Yes he can find time and space when playing deeper but like Ryan Woods before him, he's a liability bear his own goal Needs to watch Vrancic operate in tight areas further up the pitch and learn from him Frustrating player atm
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Sawyers
Oct 17, 2021 21:03:50 GMT
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Oct 17, 2021 21:03:50 GMT
No doubting his quality on the ball, he makes stuff happen but his demeanour makes him look lazy. The lack of backtracking without any urgency yesterday stood out like a sore thumb, yet, during that 25 minute spell in the second half he looked like a worldbeater. Always looks like he plays with a spliff on! So laid back. MON has to find the right formular in that midfield, when we are on song though we do look bloody good! Think your right about MON needing to find the right formula in midfield.. away from home against a fast improving and quality sheff utd team is a midfield of sawyers. Vranic. Powell the best option or would a more defence midfield player like Thompson give us more defensive strength.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 17, 2021 21:53:35 GMT
It’s exactly like Mikel last season.
MON wants a passer deep and not someone who can defend.
It’s so frustrating to see the same issue again.
Like Mikel, Sawyers needs to be further up the pitch but Mikel wasn’t afraid to put his foot in if needed he was just too knackered to be where he needed to be. Sawyers is just soft. He bottles so many challenges. And he’s playing where that can’t happen.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 18, 2021 0:11:24 GMT
It seems like he’s this season boo boy. Shame, I think he’s a really good player.
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Post by bertiestan on Oct 18, 2021 1:09:08 GMT
It goes way back to nzonzi with stoke fans....god help us supporters if we have a classy midfielder who can dictate games at his own pace...we prefer headless chickens with no ability but the lack of ability is ok cos he runs a lot🙄
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Post by xchpotter on Oct 18, 2021 5:39:08 GMT
Not expecting him to be a David Batty or Claude Makelele, but his defensive part of his game is shocking. Just knowing where to stand or how to get in someone’s way would be an improvement. This side of his game is that of a five year old. The question is whether what he brings attacking wise offsets the defensive deficiencies. For me against poor teams who come to defend then yes, for any other team it’s a most definite no.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 18, 2021 6:20:43 GMT
It goes way back to nzonzi with stoke fans....god help us supporters if we have a classy midfielder who can dictate games at his own pace...we prefer headless chickens with no ability but the lack of ability is ok cos he runs a lot🙄 It’s nothing to do with that is it? They’re absolutely nothing alike as players. I don’t think anyone’s disputing that Sawyers has ability, the question is how we best use him to play to his strengths and avoid his weaknesses exposing us. I think questioning whether we’re doing that is valid as his off the ball work is all but non-existent and playing him, Allen and Vrancic in the same midfield is robbing us of much in the way of physicality and balance there. We look a good side but get that balance right and we could be bona fide contenders.
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Post by george2again on Oct 18, 2021 6:56:12 GMT
Posted this so many times now, you can’t have Vrancic and Sawyers in the team together ( unless it’s a bottom club at home) as there’s no defensive cover. It’s one or the other for the balance to be right. Thompson and Allen allow Powell plus one other, Allen and Sawyers don’t. Save Clucus for Swansea only.
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Sawyers
Oct 18, 2021 7:20:33 GMT
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Post by potterburt on Oct 18, 2021 7:20:33 GMT
It’s exactly like Mikel last season. MON wants a passer deep and not someone who can defend. It’s so frustrating to see the same issue again. Like Mikel, Sawyers needs to be further up the pitch but Mikel wasn’t afraid to put his foot in if needed he was just too knackered to be where he needed to be. Sawyers is just soft. He bottles so many challenges. And he’s playing where that can’t happen. It’s not the same as Mikel. It’s evident MoN is going for the modern 3 man midfield as seen by the top Prem boys, with having a DM/CM/AM such as ya Jorginho/Kovacic/Mount or Rodri/ DeBruyne/Foden or Ndidi/Tielemens/Maddison. Last season for most part we had Mikel as DM and then a flat in-effective Allen and/or Clucas acting as the CM(s) ahead of him. Mikel was having to be the Interruptor and the Distributor where he had no outlet in front because Allen/Clucas weren’t right and Powell was often further up trying to make something happen. Now Allen is sat in to be just the Interruptor with Sawyers to be the Distributor, it’s a better personal fit for what he’s tactically trying to do than last season. Could Sawyers be better at tracking back? Yeah probably. Does the midfield need further balance? - yeah for sure (but yet amazing personnel for this level and closer step towards the aim considering our transfer constraints)… …Is it the same issue we had with Mikel last season… nope.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 18, 2021 7:28:20 GMT
It’s exactly like Mikel last season. MON wants a passer deep and not someone who can defend. It’s so frustrating to see the same issue again. Like Mikel, Sawyers needs to be further up the pitch but Mikel wasn’t afraid to put his foot in if needed he was just too knackered to be where he needed to be. Sawyers is just soft. He bottles so many challenges. And he’s playing where that can’t happen. It’s not the same as Mikel. It’s evident MoN is going for the modern 3 man midfield as seen by the top Prem boys, with having a DM/CM/AM such as ya Jorginho/Kovacic/Mount or Rodri/ DeBruyne/Foden or Ndidi/Tielemens/Maddison. Last season for most part we had Mikel as DM and then a flat in-effective Allen and/or Clucas acting as the CM(s) ahead of him. Mikel was having to be the Interruptor and the Distributor where he had no outlet in front because Allen/Clucas weren’t right and Powell was often further up trying to make something happen. Now Allen is sat in to be just the Interruptor with Sawyers to be the Distributor, it’s a better personal fit for what he’s tactically trying to do than last season. Could Sawyers be better at tracking back? Yeah probably. Does the midfield need further balance? - yeah for sure (but yet amazing personnel for this level and closer step towards the aim considering our transfer constraints)… …Is it the same issue we had with Mikel last season… nope. Mikel didn't really play as a DM though. He didn't sit, he didn't plug the gaps, he didn't really tackle much. He kept the ball well when he wasn't shattered, but he didn't really do much of the dirty work that I think we expected him to when he signed. In Chelsea's midfield Jorginho and Kovacic are both physical players and Jorginho is disciplined and knows when to sit. There's also Kante when he plays who can play either role. Rodri in Man City's side and Ndidi in Leicester's are physical, disciplined presences. That's what we need and what we're lacking. Your 'distributor' still needs to be able to get stuck in and carry some of the defensive load if they're playing in a deeper midfield role.
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Post by potterburt on Oct 18, 2021 7:33:20 GMT
Posted this so many times now, you can’t have Vrancic and Sawyers in the team together ( unless it’s a bottom club at home) as there’s no defensive cover. It’s one or the other for the balance to be right. Thompson and Allen allow Powell plus one other, Allen and Sawyers don’t. Save Clucus for Swansea only. I was thinking similar around the first few games but more recently I’m not sure. I’m getting the sense that the ethos/mentality from MoN is actually a rather ballsy one - where, if you have the right shape, discipline and personnel in the middle you can just boss the game. You hear and see oppositions of Chelsea/Man City that spend 80% of the game trying to get the ball off them and the Centre circle is owned by just one team. We saw it for 15-20mins before SFU equaliser where we were doing that. The ball-playing defenders have been a revelation into this nee ethos too. Sure we aren’t as well balanced/suited/well-drilled/player endowed as those top Prem teams but for a Championship promotion team, we’re giving it a good go amd still have some way to go still. Yeah Sawyers needs to work harder on defending and I’m screaming your sentiments from the rooftops regarding Clucas 🙅♂️
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Sawyers
Oct 18, 2021 7:39:38 GMT
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Post by potterburt on Oct 18, 2021 7:39:38 GMT
It’s not the same as Mikel. It’s evident MoN is going for the modern 3 man midfield as seen by the top Prem boys, with having a DM/CM/AM such as ya Jorginho/Kovacic/Mount or Rodri/ DeBruyne/Foden or Ndidi/Tielemens/Maddison. Last season for most part we had Mikel as DM and then a flat in-effective Allen and/or Clucas acting as the CM(s) ahead of him. Mikel was having to be the Interruptor and the Distributor where he had no outlet in front because Allen/Clucas weren’t right and Powell was often further up trying to make something happen. Now Allen is sat in to be just the Interruptor with Sawyers to be the Distributor, it’s a better personal fit for what he’s tactically trying to do than last season. Could Sawyers be better at tracking back? Yeah probably. Does the midfield need further balance? - yeah for sure (but yet amazing personnel for this level and closer step towards the aim considering our transfer constraints)… …Is it the same issue we had with Mikel last season… nope. Mikel didn't really play as a DM though. He didn't sit, he didn't plug the gaps, he didn't really tackle much. He kept the ball well when he wasn't shattered, but he didn't really do much of the dirty work that I think we expected him to when he signed. In Chelsea's midfield Jorginho and Kovacic are both physical players and Jorginho is disciplined and knows when to sit. There's also Kante when he plays who can play either role. Rodri in Man City's side and Ndidi in Leicester's are physical, disciplined presences. That's what we need and what we're lacking. Your 'distributor' still needs to be able to get stuck in and carry some of the defensive load if they're playing in a deeper midfield role. Mikel before Injury was doing ok, after he was crooked and he did sit, he’d rarely be playing past the half way line. He was asked and trying to perform 2 roles because the personnel ahead didn’t work. Be great if we could just dip into an endless bucket of riches to just plonk the perfect personnel in place eh!? You’re not wrong with what you say on those players. Allen has actually been surprisingly pretty good at Interruptor for the most part- he has zero physical presence compared to the players you’ve mentioned but Allen isn’t the answer anyway, he’s a band aid until we can properly address the situation.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 18, 2021 7:43:30 GMT
Mikel didn't really play as a DM though. He didn't sit, he didn't plug the gaps, he didn't really tackle much. He kept the ball well when he wasn't shattered, but he didn't really do much of the dirty work that I think we expected him to when he signed. In Chelsea's midfield Jorginho and Kovacic are both physical players and Jorginho is disciplined and knows when to sit. There's also Kante when he plays who can play either role. Rodri in Man City's side and Ndidi in Leicester's are physical, disciplined presences. That's what we need and what we're lacking. Your 'distributor' still needs to be able to get stuck in and carry some of the defensive load if they're playing in a deeper midfield role. Mikel before Injury was doing ok, after he was crooked and he did sit, he’d rarely be playing past the half way line. He was asked and trying to perform 2 roles because the personnel ahead didn’t work. Be great if we could just dip into an endless bucket of riches to just plonk the perfect personnel in place eh!? You’re not wrong with what you say on those players. Allen has actually been surprisingly pretty good at Interruptor for the most part- he has zero physical presence compared to the players you’ve mentioned but Allen isn’t the answer anyway, he’s a band aid until we can properly address the situation. I don't think Mikel every really played that role, he looked to drive forward more in the early days and we had a fair few games where we really struggled in midfield. The only player to play as a proper holding midfielder last season was Cousins, who in many ways is mediocrity personified but because he actually stuck to that role we generally looked a more balanced, solid side when he played than when he didn't. I don't think it's about 'dipping into an endless bucket of riches', I think it's more that Sawyers seems a slightly odd signing that we didn't necessarily need - he 's undoubtedly talented but MON seems to have decided we don't need that kind of midfielder. I thought West Brom might have convinced him otherwise, but it doesn't appear to have done.
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Sawyers
Oct 18, 2021 7:54:29 GMT
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Post by potterburt on Oct 18, 2021 7:54:29 GMT
Mikel before Injury was doing ok, after he was crooked and he did sit, he’d rarely be playing past the half way line. He was asked and trying to perform 2 roles because the personnel ahead didn’t work. Be great if we could just dip into an endless bucket of riches to just plonk the perfect personnel in place eh!? You’re not wrong with what you say on those players. Allen has actually been surprisingly pretty good at Interruptor for the most part- he has zero physical presence compared to the players you’ve mentioned but Allen isn’t the answer anyway, he’s a band aid until we can properly address the situation. I don't think Mikel every really played that role, he looked to drive forward more in the early days and we had a fair few games where we really struggled in midfield. The only player to play as a proper holding midfielder last season was Cousins, who in many ways is mediocrity personified but because he actually stuck to that role we generally looked a more balanced, solid side when he played than when he didn't. I don't think it's about 'dipping into an endless bucket of riches', I think it's more that Sawyers seems a slightly odd signing that we didn't necessarily need - he 's undoubtedly talented but MON seems to have decided we don't need that kind of midfielder. I thought West Brom might have convinced him otherwise, but it doesn't appear to have done. Ah ok, your still hung up about the lack of DM from before the window shut, I was with you on that. I’m starting to think (as outlined) that there’s something else that is being aimed for. Can’t say that there’s not much difference in having the ability to drop £60m odd on a player that perfectly suits your system is going to work much more effectively than a midfield that has 2 ill-fitting players, limited/restricted money, Championship pool of players who would actually want to come to stoke? Cousins was a traditional DM. You’ve just outlined what I was saying on Mikel having to perform 2 roles, he would win possession (or receive from defence) and then try and drive it forward, he never had the passing ability/range as a Sawyers/Vrancic though, Clucas was usually hiding behind 2 opponents and so he took the ball, quite often it landed him in trouble.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 18, 2021 8:02:36 GMT
I don't think Mikel every really played that role, he looked to drive forward more in the early days and we had a fair few games where we really struggled in midfield. The only player to play as a proper holding midfielder last season was Cousins, who in many ways is mediocrity personified but because he actually stuck to that role we generally looked a more balanced, solid side when he played than when he didn't. I don't think it's about 'dipping into an endless bucket of riches', I think it's more that Sawyers seems a slightly odd signing that we didn't necessarily need - he 's undoubtedly talented but MON seems to have decided we don't need that kind of midfielder. I thought West Brom might have convinced him otherwise, but it doesn't appear to have done. Ah ok, your still hung up about the lack of DM from before the window shut, I was with you on that. I’m starting to think (as outlined) that there’s something else that is being aimed for. Can’t say that there’s not much difference in having the ability to drop £60m odd on a player that perfectly suits your system is going to work much more effectively than a midfield that has 2 ill-fitting players, limited/restricted money, Championship pool of players who would actually want to come to stoke? Cousins was a traditional DM. You’ve just outlined what I was saying on Mikel having to perform 2 roles, he would win possession (or receive from defence) and then try and drive it forward, he never had the passing ability/range as a Sawyers/Vrancic though, Clucas was usually hiding behind 2 opponents and so he took the ball, quite often it landed him in trouble. Why would we have to drop £60m on one, sorry? And who is signing and picking these 'ill-fitting players'? Yes he was a traditional DM, and we looked a better side for him being there. Why were we asking Mikel to do those two roles? Would it not have been better to play him or Allen in a midfield with Cousins or Thompson (or even not play him) so that you're not asking someone to do two jobs?
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Sawyers
Oct 18, 2021 8:14:13 GMT
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lordb likes this
Post by Ron on Oct 18, 2021 8:14:13 GMT
His defensive ability is toss. Cost us the game on sat.
A tidy and capable footballer with the ball.
No good without it.
Clear see why wba were happy to let go.
He’s an alternative to vrancic. The 2 should share the load.
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Sawyers
Oct 18, 2021 8:16:54 GMT
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Post by potterburt on Oct 18, 2021 8:16:54 GMT
Ah ok, your still hung up about the lack of DM from before the window shut, I was with you on that. I’m starting to think (as outlined) that there’s something else that is being aimed for. Can’t say that there’s not much difference in having the ability to drop £60m odd on a player that perfectly suits your system is going to work much more effectively than a midfield that has 2 ill-fitting players, limited/restricted money, Championship pool of players who would actually want to come to stoke? Cousins was a traditional DM. You’ve just outlined what I was saying on Mikel having to perform 2 roles, he would win possession (or receive from defence) and then try and drive it forward, he never had the passing ability/range as a Sawyers/Vrancic though, Clucas was usually hiding behind 2 opponents and so he took the ball, quite often it landed him in trouble. Why would we have to drop £60m on one, sorry? And who is signing and picking these 'ill-fitting players'? Yes he was a traditional DM, and we looked a better side for him being there. Why were we asking Mikel to do those two roles? Would it not have been better to play him or Allen in a midfield with Cousins or Thompson (or even not play him) so that you're not asking someone to do two jobs? Why am I being asked these questions? Why would I answer on behalf of ONeil & his Backroom staffs for their decisions on last season? Re: Asking Mikel to do 2 jobs - 🤷🏻♂️ as above. I didn’t say I liked it. Re: playing Mikel/Allen/Cousins - 🤷🏻♂️ as above and yeah perhaps (I see last season as phase 2 of getting correct personnel/system, we’re currently on phase 3 and there’s still needing another or two) Re: looked a better side when cousins played - agreed. Re: dropping £60m on players - this is how we would achieve a midfield system as effective as a Man City/Chelsea Not really sure what ya getting at here Toxic, I was merely outlining what I’m seeing and a theory as to what MoN could be working on and aiming for our midfield to become.This all feels a little more like your biting for an argument though, you not good with Monday mornings?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 18, 2021 8:27:09 GMT
Why would we have to drop £60m on one, sorry? And who is signing and picking these 'ill-fitting players'? Yes he was a traditional DM, and we looked a better side for him being there. Why were we asking Mikel to do those two roles? Would it not have been better to play him or Allen in a midfield with Cousins or Thompson (or even not play him) so that you're not asking someone to do two jobs? Why am I being asked these questions? Why would I answer on behalf of ONeil & his Backroom staffs for their decisions on last season? Re: Asking Mikel to do 2 jobs - 🤷🏻♂️ as above. I didn’t say I liked it. Re: playing Mikel/Allen/Cousins - 🤷🏻♂️ as above and yeah perhaps (I see last season as phase 2 of getting correct personnel/system, we’re currently on phase 3 and there’s still needing another or two) Re: looked a better side when cousins played - agreed. Re: dropping £60m on players - this is how we would achieve a midfield system as effective as a Man City/Chelsea Not really sure what ya getting at here Toxic, I was merely outlining what I’m seeing and a theory as to what MoN could be working on and aiming for our midfield to become.This all feels a little more like your biting for an argument though, you not good with Monday mornings? I'm not sure why we're even talking about Man City and Chelsea to be honest Burt - you were the one who brought them up in the first place in terms of what you thought MON was aiming for. You don't need to spend that kind of money to find the kind of player who'll do the job we need them to do at our level. I took you taking issue with Bayern's Sawyers/Mikel comparison and your subsequent outline of what you thought Mikel's role was as a defence of both players being used in that way. Apologies if I've misrepresented you there, but if that wasn't your point then could you fill me in on what your point actually is?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 18, 2021 9:46:07 GMT
It’s exactly like Mikel last season. MON wants a passer deep and not someone who can defend. It’s so frustrating to see the same issue again. Like Mikel, Sawyers needs to be further up the pitch but Mikel wasn’t afraid to put his foot in if needed he was just too knackered to be where he needed to be. Sawyers is just soft. He bottles so many challenges. And he’s playing where that can’t happen. It’s not the same as Mikel. It’s evident MoN is going for the modern 3 man midfield as seen by the top Prem boys, with having a DM/CM/AM such as ya Jorginho/Kovacic/Mount or Rodri/ DeBruyne/Foden or Ndidi/Tielemens/Maddison. Last season for most part we had Mikel as DM and then a flat in-effective Allen and/or Clucas acting as the CM(s) ahead of him. Mikel was having to be the Interruptor and the Distributor where he had no outlet in front because Allen/Clucas weren’t right and Powell was often further up trying to make something happen. Now Allen is sat in to be just the Interruptor with Sawyers to be the Distributor, it’s a better personal fit for what he’s tactically trying to do than last season. Could Sawyers be better at tracking back? Yeah probably. Does the midfield need further balance? - yeah for sure (but yet amazing personnel for this level and closer step towards the aim considering our transfer constraints)… …Is it the same issue we had with Mikel last season… nope. It is. Mikel didn't play as a DM, indeed defensively he was poor. He impressed with his passing and was in the side for his passing. It's exactly the same.
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Post by christhepotter on Oct 18, 2021 9:49:08 GMT
It seems like he’s this season boo boy. Shame, I think he’s a really good player. I don’t see that tbh , most like him but think he’s been used wrongly that’s all
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 18, 2021 9:51:05 GMT
It seems like he’s this season boo boy. Shame, I think he’s a really good player. He's clearly a very good player being used the wrong way.
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Post by potterburt on Oct 18, 2021 9:58:37 GMT
It’s not the same as Mikel. It’s evident MoN is going for the modern 3 man midfield as seen by the top Prem boys, with having a DM/CM/AM such as ya Jorginho/Kovacic/Mount or Rodri/ DeBruyne/Foden or Ndidi/Tielemens/Maddison. Last season for most part we had Mikel as DM and then a flat in-effective Allen and/or Clucas acting as the CM(s) ahead of him. Mikel was having to be the Interruptor and the Distributor where he had no outlet in front because Allen/Clucas weren’t right and Powell was often further up trying to make something happen. Now Allen is sat in to be just the Interruptor with Sawyers to be the Distributor, it’s a better personal fit for what he’s tactically trying to do than last season. Could Sawyers be better at tracking back? Yeah probably. Does the midfield need further balance? - yeah for sure (but yet amazing personnel for this level and closer step towards the aim considering our transfer constraints)… …Is it the same issue we had with Mikel last season… nope. It is. Mikel didn't play as a DM, indeed defensively he was poor. He impressed with his passing and was in the side for his passing. It's exactly the same. Mikel didn't play as a DM last season Bayern....? oh dear.... It's a rubbish comparison, it's a lazy comparison, it shows a lack of tactical awareness/analysis and is a statement that only feeds into your agenda and the usual spot of 'Bayern's Manager Bashing'. You've already jumped onto it with Sawyers 'being used incorrectly' and we all won't be hearing the end of it for the next few years.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Oct 18, 2021 10:01:43 GMT
It's Vrancic or Sawyers for me. If MON used his subs more creatively we might get the most out of the squad. If he perseveres with Powell up top, then Jacob Brown isn't the long term solution either. Powell belongs at number 10. Campbell and Sima available with shake it up and January would be an opportunity to bring in true DM.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 18, 2021 10:04:41 GMT
It is. Mikel didn't play as a DM, indeed defensively he was poor. He impressed with his passing and was in the side for his passing. It's exactly the same. Mikel didn't play as a DM last season Bayern....? oh dear.... It's a rubbish comparison, it's a lazy comparison, it shows a lack of tactical awareness/analysis and is a statement that only feeds into your agenda and the usual spot of 'Bayern's Manager Bashing'. You've already jumped onto it with Sawyers 'being used incorrectly' and we all won't be hearing the end of it for the next few years. He didn't. He was in the side for his passing ability. Defensively he was dreadful and it's clear the manager doesn't value a defensive minded player in there. Which is his perogative but when it's costing us points it becomes an issue. It's exactly the same situation. He wants to keep the ball better and values that over the defensive side. I don't see why we can't have both. Fuck the agenda shit off, it's tiresome. Sawyers is being used incorrectly, we were told he's not a player you play as the deepest midfielder and shit what do we see....a player that can't play as the deepest midfielder.
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Post by potterburt on Oct 18, 2021 10:29:28 GMT
Why am I being asked these questions? Why would I answer on behalf of ONeil & his Backroom staffs for their decisions on last season? Re: Asking Mikel to do 2 jobs - 🤷🏻♂️ as above. I didn’t say I liked it. Re: playing Mikel/Allen/Cousins - 🤷🏻♂️ as above and yeah perhaps (I see last season as phase 2 of getting correct personnel/system, we’re currently on phase 3 and there’s still needing another or two) Re: looked a better side when cousins played - agreed. Re: dropping £60m on players - this is how we would achieve a midfield system as effective as a Man City/Chelsea Not really sure what ya getting at here Toxic, I was merely outlining what I’m seeing and a theory as to what MoN could be working on and aiming for our midfield to become.This all feels a little more like your biting for an argument though, you not good with Monday mornings? I'm not sure why we're even talking about Man City and Chelsea to be honest Burt - you were the one who brought them up in the first place in terms of what you thought MON was aiming for. You don't need to spend that kind of money to find the kind of player who'll do the job we need them to do at our level. I took you taking issue with Bayern's Sawyers/Mikel comparison and your subsequent outline of what you thought Mikel's role was as a defence of both players being used in that way. Apologies if I've misrepresented you there, but if that wasn't your point then could you fill me in on what your point actually is? The point was that i've started to see where i think MoN is trying to get our midfield to be and it's different from the initial idea where we needed a Destroyer type DM that does everything which involves turning over, assessing the play and setting the pace and then pinging chance creating balls, Yeah sure a Rodri/Kante/Ndidi at times can do all those things and they get the plaudits when the do that and there in lies the reason they are at the top with hefty price tags. In reality though they are 3 midfield roles rolled into one and very rare to be seen in a Champ midfielder. We're talking Citeh/Chelski as i used them as examples as to the 'style' of midfield that i believe MoN is striving to build/achieve. It would make sense to strive, aim to be and replicate similar to the best in the business. I used monetary value to point out that you get what you pay for. MoN has spent less than £500k on our central midfield. It evidently wasn't as easy as you suggest to just find 'that' kind of player for the system and/or weren't able to bring the kind of players who would do a correct job for us in your sense of 'correct', With Allen still on the books and that there was no one available/possible instead of Clucas, who was seemingly just an easy option to keep on instead - There was rumour that we were looking at Baker(Garner too was it?) the same time as (or possibly before?) having to go for Sawyers, which implies that we were trying to find that kind/type/style of player for his system, would any of those have been the well-rounded 'perfect' fit for what we needed - nope.
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Post by potterburt on Oct 18, 2021 10:47:42 GMT
Mikel didn't play as a DM last season Bayern....? oh dear.... It's a rubbish comparison, it's a lazy comparison, it shows a lack of tactical awareness/analysis and is a statement that only feeds into your agenda and the usual spot of 'Bayern's Manager Bashing'. You've already jumped onto it with Sawyers 'being used incorrectly' and we all won't be hearing the end of it for the next few years. He didn't. He was in the side for his passing ability. Defensively he was dreadful and it's clear the manager doesn't value a defensive minded player in there. Which is his perogative but when it's costing us points it becomes an issue. It's exactly the same situation. He wants to keep the ball better and values that over the defensive side. I don't see why we can't have both. Fuck the agenda shit off, it's tiresome. Sawyers is being used incorrectly, we were told he's not a player you play as the deepest midfielder and shit what do we see....a player that can't play as the deepest midfielder. Fine, he was brought into the side for his passing ability only, i'm sure you have that on good authority but he did play as the DM with either 2 CM's ahead of him or another DM alongside and an AM ahead. Sawyers has evidently been brought in and is being used different to our midfield system from last season and there's reason for comparison with Mikel. Yeah don't worry Bayern, we know the agenda shit is boring, we get to witness it incessantly. Sawyers wasn't and hasn't been the deepest midfielder, Thompson played alongside but Jordan was mostly behind him at PNE, Allen has played behind him in every game. There was a 5 minute spell on Saturday after they scored their second when it was very visually evident that he suddenly switched with Allen, i believe as a result of the imbalance by bring Clucas on and frustration of the 2 quick goals. It very quickly switched back round which is a suggestion that Allen had instructed him to do so as Allen went walkies all the way up front when they turned us and counter attacked, MoN quickly noticed and it was put back. I'm not saying we have the balance by any means but i do kinda recognise what and where i believe MoN is aiming our midfield to get to, it works, hence talking Citeh/Chelsk, it also has to be implemented well and with disciplined players who know what they are doing, i think some of our midfielders are still learning that and trying to implement what that means. The fact that you are drawing comparisons to Mikel and Sawyers roles shows limitations of analysis.
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