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Post by spitthedog on Sept 9, 2021 11:40:12 GMT
I think people have lived a different history to me. There was a time (i.e. most of my life) when England used to routinely struggle to get a draw at places like Poland and very often got mauled. Haven't lost to Poland since 1973 last time we we're mauled? I was talking more generally about playing away in competitive games v decent European teams like Poland where we have come unstuck historically, i.e Romania, Switzerland, Norway, Italy, Ukraine and drawing away at teams like Montenegro, Finland etc. I cant remember us bossing many of those 6 competitive draws in Poland either over last 30 odd years either. We've only beat Poland twice in Poland in the last 9 competitive games as well so not much in it.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 9, 2021 11:45:21 GMT
The goal we conceded was a consequence of three errors… Walker in getting turned to allow the first cross, Mount failing to clear his lines and then Phillips not closing down Lewandowski.
All looked very tired by this stage of the game.
Southgate had so many options on the bench to freshen up his side for the final stages of the game whether that is like for like substitutions or change the formation - for example going ultra defensive with a back 5 and 3 defensive midfielders.
A fail for Southgate IMO.
He needs to wisen up if we are to realise the true potential of this team.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 9, 2021 11:48:15 GMT
We were poor with the final ball and was sloppy with there goal in injury time but we controlled that game. The point is a good one especially as the ref was appalling some shocking decisions and they should have had at least 2 players sent off with repeated fouling. Grealish mount etc were running them ragged hence all the fouls We were on the back foot in the first half as the Poles pressed us hard, but we handled that pressure pretty well. We bossed the second half though, with Grealish and Sterling posing lots of problems as the Poles were unable to sustain that 1st half pace, right up to the point we scored. Poland then, aided by their substitutions and a bit of desperation, raised the pace again and pushed us back, particularly in the final 10 minutes. Pretty much what you might expect playing away from home against a pretty good team in a vital game (for them) in front of a passionate crowd. The overall performance from England was ok. The result was fine. What’s disappointing is not being able to close the game down. I agree. We were comfortable apart from GK error. I said as we went into extra time we would start bringing on subs as it will use up more time than is generally allowed. I was surprised we didn't.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 9, 2021 12:06:07 GMT
You’re right, nobody has lived that history - England have only ever lost one competitive game against Poland and that was 50 years ago. 😉 Really? In the last 50 years our competitive record in Poland is Won - 2 Draw - 6 Lost - 1 So I would suggest a draw is about the average and a reasonable return. So we haven't struggled to draw in Poland down the years and rarely get mauled then... They're definitely a few notches up from Hungary though. Not an easy side to roll over.
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Post by armitage on Sept 9, 2021 12:09:43 GMT
Agree that it was a mistake not to bring on some fresh legs late in the game but, for me, the reason we were not more than one up was that Sterling and Kane (his goal apart) weren't getting much change from their markers. It happens, players aren't always at their best. One each, l'll take that. Gareth will learn from it.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 9, 2021 12:26:39 GMT
The goal we conceded was a consequence of three errors… Walker in getting turned to allow the first cross, Mount failing to clear his lines and then Phillips not closing down Lewandowski. All looked very tired by this stage of the game. Southgate had so many options on the bench to freshen up his side for the final stages of the game whether that is like for like substitutions or change the formation - for example going ultra defensive with a back 5 and 3 defensive midfielders. A fail for Southgate IMO. He needs to wisen up if we are to realise the true potential of this team. Yea thought the same, we might have stopped that goal with fresher legs on the field, they looked tired and with hindsight an error by Gareth. Not a huge problem but a bit annoying he didn't replace players.
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 9, 2021 12:38:43 GMT
Really? In the last 50 years our competitive record in Poland is Won - 2 Draw - 6 Lost - 1 So I would suggest a draw is about the average and a reasonable return. So we haven't struggled to draw in Poland down the years and rarely get mauled then... They're definitely a few notches up from Hungary though. Not an easy side to roll over. I was really initially making the point in response to the idea (that seems prevalent) that we should be rolling over teams like Poland away. A draw is a decent result imo but I would also say that if my memory serves me right we did sometimes struggle to come away with a draw from places like Poland historically. They were very hard earned draws.
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Post by leicspotter on Sept 9, 2021 12:43:39 GMT
I didn't feel that England were ever comfortable last night, whilst Poland were hardly a massive goal threat they did get some good crosses in and had us really scrambling when Lewandowski got through to Pickford.
We looked overly cautious throughout and failed, time after time, to get crosses in. Sterling and Shaw both guilty of over playing imho.
We know that Southgate is a safety first manager but with the talent at his disposal he could surely be a little more adventurous? Watching England 1-0 ahead is almost as nerve wracking as watching Stoke in the same position...you just know we need another goal. Stones, Walker and Maguire all have a potential mistake in them, last night Pickford nearly dropped a brick too.
Southgate has a done a very good job bringing the squad together and developing the younger players, it would be an EXCELLENT job if he was just a tad braver at times
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Post by thevoid on Sept 9, 2021 14:18:09 GMT
Southgate's game management in close matches is a concern. As someone said before, if we'd swapped managers with Italy before the final we'd have won Im with you. I’m ok with drawing away at Poland, keeps us top and pretty much guarantees we’ll finish first. But I’m annoyed that we’ve got a full bench and we’re defending our box from about the 80th minute onwards. These are the games we need to show if we’ve learnt from Croatia (3 years ago) and Italy and as it stands I’m not seeing that. Southgate needs to be able to manage these games out so that when it comes to the tournaments we’ve got that know how to win. He needs to see who he can trust to come on and make a difference or just kill the game off. He needs to trust his bench. It's as good as anyone's
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Post by peterpan1 on Sept 9, 2021 20:40:08 GMT
Southgate is deluded if he stands by his statement of not needing to make subs last night. Anyone with half a football brain could see fresh legs were needed.
Whilst a draw, on the face of it, is no bad result. We gave Poland the opportunity to come back into the game. Reservations around him still persist for me.
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Post by lordb on Sept 9, 2021 20:46:02 GMT
Haven't lost to Poland since 1973 last time we we're mauled? I was talking more generally about playing away in competitive games v decent European teams like Poland where we have come unstuck historically, i.e Romania, Switzerland, Norway, Italy, Ukraine and drawing away at teams like Montenegro, Finland etc. I cant remember us bossing many of those 6 competitive draws in Poland either over last 30 odd years either. We've only beat Poland twice in Poland in the last 9 competitive games as well so not much in it. Italy were a bit different to the others We did famously lose to Norway when they were part time Rumania? In qualifying? Switzerland? Nah, England defeats in qualifying are as rare as hens teeth especially since the groups got easier If you are referring to games in tournaments that's different Poland match was highly unusual as Poland put in a really strong performance, best they have played for donkeys years. Good to see, competitive football is so much better than walks in the park
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 9, 2021 21:48:56 GMT
I was talking more generally about playing away in competitive games v decent European teams like Poland where we have come unstuck historically, i.e Romania, Switzerland, Norway, Italy, Ukraine and drawing away at teams like Montenegro, Finland etc. I cant remember us bossing many of those 6 competitive draws in Poland either over last 30 odd years either. We've only beat Poland twice in Poland in the last 9 competitive games as well so not much in it. Italy were a bit different to the others We did famously lose to Norway when they were part time Rumania? In qualifying? Switzerland? Nah, England defeats in qualifying are as rare as hens teeth especially since the groups got easier If you are referring to games in tournaments that's different Poland match was highly unusual as Poland put in a really strong performance, best they have played for donkeys years. Good to see, competitive football is so much better than walks in the park I know its going back ( that's because I'm old and these defeats are etched on my soul!) We lost to Romania 1980 World Cup qualifier and lost to Switzerland in the 80s in another World Cup qualifier in Basle. I agree its good for the game generally if these matches are tough.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 9, 2021 22:54:44 GMT
Easy to forget now but we only qualified for 1990 by the width of a gnat's bollock. Poland hit the bar in the last minute. A millimetre lower and Robson leaves in disgrace, no World in motion, no Gazza blarting.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2021 23:03:32 GMT
Italy were a bit different to the others We did famously lose to Norway when they were part time Rumania? In qualifying? Switzerland? Nah, England defeats in qualifying are as rare as hens teeth especially since the groups got easier If you are referring to games in tournaments that's different Poland match was highly unusual as Poland put in a really strong performance, best they have played for donkeys years. Good to see, competitive football is so much better than walks in the park I know its going back ( that's because I'm old and these defeats are etched on my soul!) We lost to Romania 1980 World Cup qualifier and lost to Switzerland in the 80s in another World Cup qualifier in Basle. I agree its good for the game generally if these matches are tough. While it was a few years later, I loved watching Romania when they had Hadji on form. Even as a kid, I just thought that he was such a joy to watch. It’s a shame that these talents aren’t as common place in those lesser ranked teams today. Hopefully Haaland will mature and turn Norway into a decent enough side!
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2021 0:54:55 GMT
I know its going back ( that's because I'm old and these defeats are etched on my soul!) We lost to Romania 1980 World Cup qualifier and lost to Switzerland in the 80s in another World Cup qualifier in Basle. I agree its good for the game generally if these matches are tough. While it was a few years later, I loved watching Romania when they had Hadji on form. Even as a kid, I just thought that he was such a joy to watch. It’s a shame that these talents aren’t as common place in those lesser ranked teams today. Hopefully Haaland will mature and turn Norway into a decent enough side! Romania weren't lesser ranked at that point though. They were established as a competitive international side.
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