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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 7, 2021 8:46:23 GMT
He should apologise for being wrong Nearly twice as many pits shut under Wilson than thatcher So he really should of been praising Harold Wilson Before Thatcher mines were closed because they were exhausted and miners given generous redundancy terms. Under Thatcher the mines were closed because she set out to break the labour movement. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2021 9:04:05 GMT
He should apologise for being wrong Nearly twice as many pits shut under Wilson than thatcher So he really should of been praising Harold Wilson Absolutely. Facts can upset people more than a daft joke so be be careful on that front |
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 7, 2021 9:05:23 GMT
He should apologise for being wrong Nearly twice as many pits shut under Wilson than thatcher So he really should of been praising Harold Wilson Before Thatcher mines were closed because they were exhausted and miners given generous redundancy terms. Under Thatcher the mines were closed because she set out to break the labour movement. Almost Twice as many mines shut under labour Fact Labour the working mans worst enemy |
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 7, 2021 9:12:43 GMT
Before Thatcher mines were closed because they were exhausted and miners given generous redundancy terms. Under Thatcher the mines were closed because she set out to break the labour movement. Almost Twice as many mines shut under labour Fact Labour the working mans worst enemy More than twice as many jobs went from the industry under the Tories. Fact. |
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Post by Eggybread on Aug 7, 2021 9:22:03 GMT
Regardless of whose policy it was to close the pits, Surely the point is that the communities were devastated and peoples lives and families left in tatters. So to make a joke out of it is insensitive and crass. How can there be any other verdict.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 7, 2021 9:22:37 GMT
Before Thatcher mines were closed because they were exhausted and miners given generous redundancy terms. Under Thatcher the mines were closed because she set out to break the labour movement. Almost Twice as many mines shut under labour Fact Labour the working mans worst enemy lol |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Aug 7, 2021 9:40:41 GMT
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 7, 2021 9:44:45 GMT
I can only assume you meant to post this on the GB News thread? |
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Post by Eggybread on Aug 7, 2021 9:46:32 GMT
What relevance is this to miners? |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Aug 7, 2021 9:48:51 GMT
What relevance is this to miners? Oh woops, yep posted on the wrong thread. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Aug 7, 2021 9:50:07 GMT
Get Boris out, get Rishi in. We all know this will (and needs to) happen, it's just a matter of time.
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 7, 2021 10:01:55 GMT
He should apologise for being wrong Nearly twice as many pits shut under Wilson than thatcher So he really should of been praising Harold Wilson Before Thatcher mines were closed because they were exhausted and miners given generous redundancy terms. Under Thatcher the mines were closed because she set out to break the labour movement. Maybe there is some truth in that huddy, Thatcher was quite rightly locked in a battle to break the Marxist Union Barons who brought this country to its knees . These big salaried communists were a theat to the welfare of everybody in the UK . Did the miners ever consider we could import Polish coal |
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Post by Eggybread on Aug 7, 2021 10:11:11 GMT
Before Thatcher mines were closed because they were exhausted and miners given generous redundancy terms. Under Thatcher the mines were closed because she set out to break the labour movement. Maybe there is some truth in that huddy, Thatcher was quite rightly locked in a battle to break the Marxist Union Barons who brought this country to its knees . These big salaried communists were a theat to the welfare of everybody in the UK . Did the miners ever consider we could import Polish coal I just thought they went on strike to save their jobs, how wrong was I not knowing it was a communist, marxist, lenin, stalinist coup. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2021 10:14:29 GMT
Amazing how precious some are. Apologise to me or I'll explode. If ever the saying MAN UP was appropriate
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 7, 2021 10:27:52 GMT
Apologise for what exactly , just meaningless gesture politics . Labour closed far more pits than thatcher ever did For balance it's not just about the number of pits as the industry shifted to larger pits at the expense of smaller ones over the second half of the 20th Century. Between 1980 and 1994 the number employed in the UK coal industry fell from 240,000 to 10,000. Another quarter of a million jobs went under the Tories between 1958 and 1964 and about 40,000 under Heath. '64-70 (Wilson) saw another 210,000 jobs go and about 10,000 from '74-79. Given the number was broadly flat from 1940-58 then it is clear far more jobs were lost in the coal industry under the Tories than Labour. It is the impact of the 95% fall in the number employed in the industry under Thatcher and the corresponding impact on the communities that makes it a crass comment. Whether it was the right thing for coal to switch to gas is a separate debate. That is just not true about the 60s. Under Gaitskil and Wilson over 400k mining jobs were lost as hundreds of coal mines were closed. A simple google search shatters the myth of Saint Maggie decimating the coal industry……….. 160 mines were closed under Thatcher’s time in office (1979–1990) Approx 11 years 290 were closed under Harold Wilson’s premierships alone (1965–1969 1974–1975) Approx 10 years The more important detail is the number of deep pits closed, disregarding small mines, sometimes privately owned Labour in total closed 371 deep pits. Of course as usual facts often ruin the agenda of the Maggie and Tory Bashers. |
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 7, 2021 10:34:52 GMT
For balance it's not just about the number of pits as the industry shifted to larger pits at the expense of smaller ones over the second half of the 20th Century. Between 1980 and 1994 the number employed in the UK coal industry fell from 240,000 to 10,000. Another quarter of a million jobs went under the Tories between 1958 and 1964 and about 40,000 under Heath. '64-70 (Wilson) saw another 210,000 jobs go and about 10,000 from '74-79. Given the number was broadly flat from 1940-58 then it is clear far more jobs were lost in the coal industry under the Tories than Labour. It is the impact of the 95% fall in the number employed in the industry under Thatcher and the corresponding impact on the communities that makes it a crass comment. Whether it was the right thing for coal to switch to gas is a separate debate. That is just not true about the 60s. Under Gaitskil and Wilson over 400k mining jobs were lost as hundreds of coal mines were closed. A simple google search shatters the myth of Saint Maggie decimating the coal industry……….. 160 mines were closed under Thatcher’s time in office (1979–1990) Approx 11 years 290 were closed under Harold Wilson’s premierships alone (1965–1969 1974–1975) Approx 10 years The more important detail is the number of deep pits closed, disregarding small mines, sometimes privately owned Labour in total closed 371 deep pits. Of course as usual facts often ruin the agenda of the Maggie and Tory Bashers. . |
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 7, 2021 10:41:24 GMT
Perhaps he should have mentioned the steel industry as well? That was a bit heavy on the old carbon front. Still, not to worry, the good folks of Stoke will keep voting for him and thinking they're laughing with him when really he's just pissing himself that they keep falling for it. If you think voting for either party will make any difference then you’re part of the problem so a PM, or Government has no answerability because of the lack of options? |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 7, 2021 10:49:02 GMT
That is just not true about the 60s. Under Gaitskil and Wilson over 400k mining jobs were lost as hundreds of coal mines were closed. A simple google search shatters the myth of Saint Maggie decimating the coal industry……….. 160 mines were closed under Thatcher’s time in office (1979–1990) Approx 11 years 290 were closed under Harold Wilson’s premierships alone (1965–1969 1974–1975) Approx 10 years The more important detail is the number of deep pits closed, disregarding small mines, sometimes privately owned Labour in total closed 371 deep pits. Of course as usual facts often ruin the agenda of the Maggie and Tory Bashers. . The graph you quote is broadly in line with my statement that in the 1960s over 400k mining jobs were lost during Wilson Premiership. Or am I misreading it? |
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Post by zerps on Aug 7, 2021 10:53:08 GMT
If you think voting for either party will make any difference then you’re part of the problem so a PM, or Government has no answerability because of the lack of options? Until the people realise it’s not a democracy then we can only blame ourselves |
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 7, 2021 11:02:57 GMT
so a PM, or Government has no answerability because of the lack of options? Until the people realise it’s not a democracy then we can only blame ourselves a fair argument I suppose. Of course, when you question the nature of the 'democracy', folk just point towards North Korea, or China, as if that would be the only other option. |
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 7, 2021 11:09:22 GMT
Maybe there is some truth in that huddy, Thatcher was quite rightly locked in a battle to break the Marxist Union Barons who brought this country to its knees . These big salaried communists were a theat to the welfare of everybody in the UK . Did the miners ever consider we could import Polish coal I just thought they went on strike to save their jobs, how wrong was I not knowing it was a communist, marxist, lenin, stalinist coup. Not actually the case. There was a shift in the miner’s union at the start of the 70s and unions generally at that time where actions became more about politics than salaries and working conditions. Scargill was at the forefront of this. His ambition in 84 was to bring down down Thatcher’s government following on from his role in the demise of Heath’s government at the start of the 70s. But Thatcher wasn’t Heath. And 1984 wasn’t 1972. Or 1980 for that matter. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 7, 2021 11:39:55 GMT
I just thought they went on strike to save their jobs, how wrong was I not knowing it was a communist, marxist, lenin, stalinist coup. Not actually the case. There was a shift in the miner’s union at the start of the 70s and unions generally at that time where actions became more about politics than salaries and working conditions. Scargill was at the forefront of this. His ambition in 84 was to bring down down Thatcher’s government following on from his role in the demise of Heath’s government at the start of the 70s. But Thatcher wasn’t Heath. And 1984 wasn’t 1972. Or 1980 for that matter. I remember it well i was working for British rail at the time And a few months before we went on strike and of course asked the num for support Scargill and his cronies told us basically to piss off About four months later they pleaded with us to stop the trains from the ports to the power stations transporting foreign coal To put it mildly the rail workers were not in the mood to cooperate |
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 7, 2021 11:52:41 GMT
For balance it's not just about the number of pits as the industry shifted to larger pits at the expense of smaller ones over the second half of the 20th Century. Between 1980 and 1994 the number employed in the UK coal industry fell from 240,000 to 10,000. Another quarter of a million jobs went under the Tories between 1958 and 1964 and about 40,000 under Heath. '64-70 (Wilson) saw another 210,000 jobs go and about 10,000 from '74-79. Given the number was broadly flat from 1940-58 then it is clear far more jobs were lost in the coal industry under the Tories than Labour. It is the impact of the 95% fall in the number employed in the industry under Thatcher and the corresponding impact on the communities that makes it a crass comment. Whether it was the right thing for coal to switch to gas is a separate debate. That is just not true about the 60s. Under Gaitskil and Wilson over 400k mining jobs were lost as hundreds of coal mines were closed. A simple google search shatters the myth of Saint Maggie decimating the coal industry……….. 160 mines were closed under Thatcher’s time in office (1979–1990) Approx 11 years 290 were closed under Harold Wilson’s premierships alone (1965–1969 1974–1975) Approx 10 years The more important detail is the number of deep pits closed, disregarding small mines, sometimes privately owned Labour in total closed 371 deep pits. Of course as usual facts often ruin the agenda of the Maggie and Tory Bashers. Well said 👏 |
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 7, 2021 11:55:54 GMT
Perhaps he should have mentioned the steel industry as well? That was a bit heavy on the old carbon front. Still, not to worry, the good folks of Stoke will keep voting for him and thinking they're laughing with him when really he's just pissing himself that they keep falling for it. Yes I remember Labour closing shelton Bar |
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Post by Eggybread on Aug 7, 2021 12:10:55 GMT
I take it he still hasn't apologised. And the miners argument has been done to death a few times on here. Basically miners get shafted whatever course of action you believe or government you wish to support.
And it still isn't funny.
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Post by cerebralstokie on Aug 7, 2021 12:43:44 GMT
I just thought they went on strike to save their jobs, how wrong was I not knowing it was a communist, marxist, lenin, stalinist coup. Not actually the case. There was a shift in the miner’s union at the start of the 70s and unions generally at that time where actions became more about politics than salaries and working conditions. Scargill was at the forefront of this. His ambition in 84 was to bring down down Thatcher’s government following on from his role in the demise of Heath’s government at the start of the 70s. But Thatcher wasn’t Heath. And 1984 wasn’t 1972. Or 1980 for that matter. The background to all this was a long term decline in the mining industry. Production actually peaked in 1913 and by the 70's the main markets for coal were power generation and iron and steel manufacture. Thatcher's policy of a strong pound made imports of coal cheaper and deep mined U.K. coal uncompetitive. No one could blame miners for fighting to keep their jobs but Scargill's political agenda was unappealing to many. Climate change was not an issue at the time (except among a few climate scientists). For Boris to claim - or imply - that Thatcher somehow deserves credit for, even inadvertently, anticipating climate change, in retrospect is opportunistic to say the least. Typical of a man who I would describe as "hail fellow well met - but shifty". |
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 7, 2021 13:20:21 GMT
The graph you quote is broadly in line with my statement that in the 1960s over 400k mining jobs were lost during Wilson Premiership. Or am I misreading it? 400,000 in the 1960s yes, but given that the Tories were in power until Oct '64 only just over half of those were under Wilson. |
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Post by GrahamHyde on Aug 7, 2021 13:48:39 GMT
Still blows my mind that Stoke-on-Trent is now a Tory city.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 7, 2021 14:24:22 GMT
The graph you quote is broadly in line with my statement that in the 1960s over 400k mining jobs were lost during Wilson Premiership. Or am I misreading it? 400,000 in the 1960s yes, but given that the Tories were in power until Oct '64 only just over half of those were under Wilson. Fair enough but surely you have to look at why pits were closing in 60s and 70s. Switch to oil fired and nuclear power stations, phasing out of steam trains all meant a reduction in the reliance of coal. By the 80s coal production put a heavy burden on tax payers then of course the Marxist Scarghill decided he wanted a fight with Maggie and there was only ever going to be one winner. |
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Post by Eggybread on Aug 7, 2021 15:15:54 GMT
Still blows my mind that Stoke-on-Trent is now a Tory city. The people may have voted for them but they are not tories in the natural true sense. They are basically lost souls with no direction. |
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