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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 12, 2021 23:00:09 GMT
Yes, that was quite literally my point. 🙂 ....but still better than the English midfielders? If he is so good he'll probably end up for one of the top teams in the PL I presume. Yes, that was my point, they had players on their bench that would in my opinion walk into our side, such was their strength in depth. Not everyone dreams of playing in the Premier League. Plenty top players choose not to, it doesn’t make them lesser players.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 13, 2021 7:05:39 GMT
....but still better than the English midfielders? If he is so good he'll probably end up for one of the top teams in the PL I presume. Yes, that was my point, they had players on their bench that would in my opinion walk into our side, such was their strength in depth. Not everyone dreams of playing in the Premier League. Plenty top players choose not to, it doesn’t make them lesser players. No, but most players want top wages and play for the biggest teams. In Italy you have Juventus, Inter, AC and maybe Rome on paper as big clubs and in France I'll say only PSG right now. Especially if you choose PSG you know you will play in an inferior league, but the money is there if you play for PSG. They even managed to f... it up last season!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 7:23:44 GMT
Yes, that was my point, they had players on their bench that would in my opinion walk into our side, such was their strength in depth. Not everyone dreams of playing in the Premier League. Plenty top players choose not to, it doesn’t make them lesser players. No, but most players want top wages and play for the biggest teams. In Italy you have Juventus, Inter, AC and maybe Rome on paper as big clubs and in France I'll say only PSG right now. Especially if you choose PSG you know you will play in an inferior league, but the money is there if you play for PSG. They even managed to f... it up last season! Lazio and Roma definitely. Napoli are a big club as well. Locatelli will get his big move, if it isn’t to the Premier League that doesn’t make him inferior to English players.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 13, 2021 8:23:04 GMT
No, but most players want top wages and play for the biggest teams. In Italy you have Juventus, Inter, AC and maybe Rome on paper as big clubs and in France I'll say only PSG right now. Especially if you choose PSG you know you will play in an inferior league, but the money is there if you play for PSG. They even managed to f... it up last season! Lazio and Roma definitely. Napoli are a big club as well. Locatelli will get his big move, if it isn’t to the Premier League that doesn’t make him inferior to English players. He still hasn't shown he can hack it in a league like the PL either then, but I like what I've seen from him in the Euros. I'm still not sure many Italians would "walk"into the English team though. The only 100% certain for me would be Donnarumma, then maybe a couple of midfielders, but I'm not so sure of this as so many on this board are. We have seen before players impress in championships, but they haven't necessarily done great for clubs in big leagues. Just to mention a couple who springs to mind Poborski at United and that Portugese player at Swansea who won the Euros and is still playing for Portugal.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 8:32:37 GMT
Lazio and Roma definitely. Napoli are a big club as well. Locatelli will get his big move, if it isn’t to the Premier League that doesn’t make him inferior to English players. He still hasn't shown he can hack it in a league like the PL either then, but I like what I've seen from him in the Euros. I'm still not sure many Italians would "walk"into the English team though. The only 100% certain for me would be Donnarumma, then maybe a couple of midfielders, but I'm not so sure of this as so many on this board are. We have seen before players impress in championships, but they haven't necessarily done great for clubs in big leagues. Just to mention a couple who springs to mind Poborski at United and that Portugese player at Swansea who won the Euros and is still playing for Portugal. Serie A is a big league. Not as big as it used to be but a high standard nevertheless. I just don’t buy that a player has to prove themselves in the Premier League to be considered a top player, it’s insular.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 13, 2021 9:47:49 GMT
He still hasn't shown he can hack it in a league like the PL either then, but I like what I've seen from him in the Euros. I'm still not sure many Italians would "walk"into the English team though. The only 100% certain for me would be Donnarumma, then maybe a couple of midfielders, but I'm not so sure of this as so many on this board are. We have seen before players impress in championships, but they haven't necessarily done great for clubs in big leagues. Just to mention a couple who springs to mind Poborski at United and that Portugese player at Swansea who won the Euros and is still playing for Portugal. Serie A is a big league. Not as big as it used to be but a high standard nevertheless. I just don’t buy that a player has to prove themselves in the Premier League to be considered a top player, it’s insular. No, absolutely not, but still I think the PL is a much stronger league than the Italian one. Despite this you have 4-5 teams from Italy doing well in European cups though, but I think quality is closely connected to wages and this is where the PL stands out. Because of this I feel winning the PL is a bigger achievment than winning any other league, but sometimes this is a disadvantage because of the tear and wear on the players.
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Post by greenman on Jul 13, 2021 15:13:39 GMT
They were on the night, but honestly, how many of the Italian players would have been selected for England? I think only Donnarumma would be a safe one and then maybe Jorghino. Apart from these two none would have been picked for an England's first 11. England lost because the decided to sit back and ride their luck instead of trying to dictate the game. You also get more tired of running after the opposition players instead of controlling the ball more. England lost because they chose the wrong tactics after they scored in my opinion. There were midfielders on Italy’s bench who walk into England’s side imo. There were midfielders on ours that should have done as well!
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Post by Abdoulaye25 on Jul 13, 2021 16:28:33 GMT
They're simply a better side with a better coach and worthy champions. Nothing to do with booing or anything else. They They were on the night, but honestly, how many of the Italian players would have been selected for England? I think only Donnarumma would be a safe one and then maybe Jorghino. Apart from these two none would have been picked for an England's first 11. England lost because they decided to sit back and ride their luck instead of trying to dictate the game. You also get more tired of running after the opposition players instead of controlling the ball more. England lost because they chose the wrong tactics after they scored in my opinion. Mostly agree, the England squad is massively talented, but with a manager who is too defensive to do anything more than defend and hope the attack gets a goal or two. But I don't think you're giving enough credit to the Italy players. They have gone 33 games unbeaten because they're a team full of top players - their midfield is the best in the tournament by a mile and forced Spain and England to change their tactics to cope with it. Verratti would improve every midfield in the Euros, Barella is world class and is Inter's most important player along with Lukaku, Jorginho, Pessina and Locatelli (heading for Juve) were great all tournament. Rice and Phillips would be lucky to get selected for the Italian squad, and wouldn't be near to starting. In defence, Spinazzola was player of the tournament until his injury, and Chiellini and Bonucci were great too.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 16:46:02 GMT
There were midfielders on Italy’s bench who walk into England’s side imo. There were midfielders on ours that should have done as well! Not sure there’s anyone else I’d have played in the middle for us tbh. Thought Phillips and Rice were both excellent throughout the tournament.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 13, 2021 16:46:25 GMT
They were on the night, but honestly, how many of the Italian players would have been selected for England? I think only Donnarumma would be a safe one and then maybe Jorghino. Apart from these two none would have been picked for an England's first 11. England lost because they decided to sit back and ride their luck instead of trying to dictate the game. You also get more tired of running after the opposition players instead of controlling the ball more. England lost because they chose the wrong tactics after they scored in my opinion. Mostly agree, the England squad is massively talented, but with a manager who is too defensive to do anything more than defend and hope the attack gets a goal or two. But I don't think you're giving enough credit to the Italy players. They have gone 33 games unbeaten because they're a team full of top players - their midfield is the best in the tournament by a mile and forced Spain and England to change their tactics to cope with it. Verratti would improve every midfield in the Euros, Barella is world class and is Inter's most important player along with Lukaku, Jorginho, Pessina and Locatelli (heading for Juve) were great all tournament. Rice and Phillips would be lucky to get selected for the Italian squad, and wouldn't be near to starting. In defence, Spinazzola was player of the tournament until his injury, and Chiellini and Bonucci were great too. You might be right, but still not sure they would be selected before Rice and Phillips by Southgate. As you say he is very defensively minded and probably would have gone for the defensively safest option. I agree Italy have looked a very good team, but they still were only half a yard from being beaten by Austria (Arnie's goal) and were very lucky against Spain in my opinion. Anyway, hard to criticize the team that won it all, isn't it?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 17:01:16 GMT
Mostly agree, the England squad is massively talented, but with a manager who is too defensive to do anything more than defend and hope the attack gets a goal or two. But I don't think you're giving enough credit to the Italy players. They have gone 33 games unbeaten because they're a team full of top players - their midfield is the best in the tournament by a mile and forced Spain and England to change their tactics to cope with it. Verratti would improve every midfield in the Euros, Barella is world class and is Inter's most important player along with Lukaku, Jorginho, Pessina and Locatelli (heading for Juve) were great all tournament. Rice and Phillips would be lucky to get selected for the Italian squad, and wouldn't be near to starting. In defence, Spinazzola was player of the tournament until his injury, and Chiellini and Bonucci were great too. You might be right, but still not sure they would be selected before Rice and Phillips by Southgate. As you say he is very defensively minded and probably would have gone for the defensively safest option. I agree Italy have looked a very good team, but they still were only half a yard from being beaten by Austria (Arnie's goal) and were very lucky against Spain in my opinion. Anyway, hard to criticize the team that won it all, isn't it? Veratti, Jorginho and Locatelli are all strong defensively.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 13, 2021 17:24:10 GMT
You might be right, but still not sure they would be selected before Rice and Phillips by Southgate. As you say he is very defensively minded and probably would have gone for the defensively safest option. I agree Italy have looked a very good team, but they still were only half a yard from being beaten by Austria (Arnie's goal) and were very lucky against Spain in my opinion. Anyway, hard to criticize the team that won it all, isn't it? Veratti, Jorginho and Locatelli are all strong defensively. They might be, but I really can't understand why you're so sure they would be preferred. If you mean so OK, but I won't be more certain if you go on forever.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 17:34:07 GMT
Veratti, Jorginho and Locatelli are all strong defensively. They might be, but I really can't understand why you're so sure they would be preferred. If you mean so OK, but I won't be more certain if you go on forever. I know that Rob, you’re not one for changing your mind regardless of the amount of evidence to the contrary put in front of you. 🙂 If you’re not sure that Verratti would be selected in front of Phillips I can only assume you haven’t seen a lot of Verratti.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 13, 2021 18:37:08 GMT
They might be, but I really can't understand why you're so sure they would be preferred. If you mean so OK, but I won't be more certain if you go on forever. I know that Rob, you’re not one for changing your mind regardless of the amount of evidence to the contrary put in front of you. 🙂 If you’re not sure that Verratti would be selected in front of Phillips I can only assume you haven’t seen a lot of Verratti. My point is; would Southgate prefer him? Evidence or opinion?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 19:36:45 GMT
I know that Rob, you’re not one for changing your mind regardless of the amount of evidence to the contrary put in front of you. 🙂 If you’re not sure that Verratti would be selected in front of Phillips I can only assume you haven’t seen a lot of Verratti. My point is; would Southgate prefer him? Evidence or opinion? Why wouldn't Southgate prefer him? What is that opinion based on? He can do everything the England players in the same position can do and has a superior range of passing to either?
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 13, 2021 20:41:55 GMT
My point is; would Southgate prefer him? Evidence or opinion? Why wouldn't Southgate prefer him? What is that opinion based on? He can do everything the England players in the same position can do and has a superior range of passing to either?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 20:51:01 GMT
Why wouldn't Southgate prefer him? What is that opinion based on? He can do everything the England players in the same position can do and has a superior range of passing to either? You're not going to answer the question then...
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 13, 2021 20:58:15 GMT
You're not going to answer the question then... No I'm done with this conversation as it has become an endurance competition. Enough is enough.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 21:09:45 GMT
You're not going to answer the question then... No I'm done with this conversation as it has become an endurance competition. Enough is enough. Agreed. It really is enough.
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