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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 12, 2021 0:40:17 GMT
Something that has been talked a lot lately with the past few England games and it has got me thinking. I made a post a while back about when Arnautovic was coming to the Brit with West Ham and I was saying how booing him would be ineffective. He received a lot of shit and as far as I can remember he ended up ripping us apart and performing hammer signs to the crowd.
It's clear to me that the treatment we gave him motivated him and thus he ended up helping his team. Would we have won the game or not if we didn't treat him this way? I don't know, but there's evidence to my point.
Now with the England games and the excessive "It's coming home" / Rio Ferdinand comments “If I was England, would I rather play Spain or Italy? It doesn’t matter, England take care of both of these teams. England are better than both of them.” / Booing of national anthems. There's a lot of attention there and a lot of "Arrogance" that's perceived by opposition fans/players. The question is are we just motivating opposition and not doing ourselves any favours? It's great to be excited and cheer and sing about it coming home, but where do we draw the line? Is this something that we get unnecessary stick for and other nations do the same or are we simply just too much.
Tonight was annoying as fuck having to watch Bonucci shout "It's coming to Rome" through my TV screen and see Chiellini posing with the trophy with the exact same caption. Sometimes I feel we shoot ourselves in the foot. Something that was fun is now just painful and is just taken by them into "It's coming to Rome"
I don't know where I'm going with this anymore as I'm drunk, but thought I'd share the thought. Grazie! Uh I mean thanks.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 12, 2021 0:47:19 GMT
The arrogance thing is just bullshit.
And anyone misunderstanding it’s coming home is just weird. It’s a self deprecating song about the daft hope we have despite their not being much reason for it.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 12, 2021 0:48:21 GMT
The arrogance thing is just bullshit. And anyone misunderstanding it’s coming home is just weird. It’s a self deprecating song about the daft hope we have despite their not being much reason for it. And personally I totally agree with you. But other people don't seem to look at it the way "most" English people look at it and it almost comes across as motivation. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 0:50:23 GMT
Seeing 40/50year old plus men booing ex players makes them look nothing more than ridiculous. I guess many players see them in the same way and rightly so
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 12, 2021 0:51:42 GMT
The arrogance thing is just bullshit. And anyone misunderstanding it’s coming home is just weird. It’s a self deprecating song about the daft hope we have despite their not being much reason for it. And personally I totally agree with you. But other people don't seem to look at it the way "most" English people look at it and it almost comes across as motivation. They don’t and I think it’s fucking weird. I mean they just need to listen to the lyrics. There’s nothing more to it than it’s a really bad way of looking at it. |
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Post by professorplump on Jul 12, 2021 1:16:53 GMT
I don't think either the Three Lions song or the booing of the anthem made any difference. I'm sure winning Euro 2020 was all the motivation Italy needed. However I do think Three Lions has got a bit stale and we could do with a new song.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 2:16:06 GMT
I don't think either the Three Lions song or the booing of the anthem made any difference. I'm sure winning Euro 2020 was all the motivation Italy needed. However I do think Three Lions has got a bit stale and we could do with a new song. They're simply a better side with a better coach and worthy champions. Nothing to do with booing or anything else. They |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 3:10:58 GMT
I don't think either the Three Lions song or the booing of the anthem made any difference. I'm sure winning Euro 2020 was all the motivation Italy needed. However I do think Three Lions has got a bit stale and we could do with a new song. They're simply a better side with a better coach and worthy champions. Nothing to do with booing or anything else. They Had them down to win it after watching the game after the opener. They did deserve it. Beat the Belgians and the Spanish. Happy for Donarumma as I think he’ll have a great career. Proud of the lads. We set up defensively, but we didn’t give it away. They never bombarded us. Sad we never made bigger chances for ourselves. |
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Post by upthefud on Jul 12, 2021 3:34:44 GMT
Something that has been talked a lot lately with the past few England games and it has got me thinking. I made a post a while back about when Arnautovic was coming to the Brit with West Ham and I was saying how booing him would be ineffective. He received a lot of shit and as far as I can remember he ended up ripping us apart and performing hammer signs to the crowd. It's clear to me that the treatment we gave him motivated him and thus he ended up helping his team. Would we have won the game or not if we didn't treat him this way? I don't know, but there's evidence to my point. Now with the England games and the excessive "It's coming home" / Rio Ferdinand comments “If I was England, would I rather play Spain or Italy? It doesn’t matter, England take care of both of these teams. England are better than both of them.” / Booing of national anthems. There's a lot of attention there and a lot of "Arrogance" that's perceived by opposition fans/players. The question is are we just motivating opposition and not doing ourselves any favours? It's great to be excited and cheer and sing about it coming home, but where do we draw the line? Is this something that we get unnecessary stick for and other nations do the same or are we simply just too much. Tonight was annoying as fuck having to watch Bonucci shout "It's coming to Rome" through my TV screen and see Chiellini posing with the trophy with the exact same caption. Sometimes I feel we shoot ourselves in the foot. Something that was fun is now just painful and is just taken by them into "It's coming to Rome" I don't know where I'm going with this anymore as I'm drunk, but thought I'd share the thought. Grazie! Uh I mean thanks. What about the booing of Shaun Wright-Phillips, Kris Commons, Robinho, Danny Rose etc. Arnautovic was the anomaly, not the norm |
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Post by heworksardtho on Jul 12, 2021 6:26:50 GMT
It should never be sung again
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Post by followyoudown on Jul 12, 2021 7:20:08 GMT
Something that has been talked a lot lately with the past few England games and it has got me thinking. I made a post a while back about when Arnautovic was coming to the Brit with West Ham and I was saying how booing him would be ineffective. He received a lot of shit and as far as I can remember he ended up ripping us apart and performing hammer signs to the crowd. It's clear to me that the treatment we gave him motivated him and thus he ended up helping his team. Would we have won the game or not if we didn't treat him this way? I don't know, but there's evidence to my point. Now with the England games and the excessive "It's coming home" / Rio Ferdinand comments “If I was England, would I rather play Spain or Italy? It doesn’t matter, England take care of both of these teams. England are better than both of them.” / Booing of national anthems. There's a lot of attention there and a lot of "Arrogance" that's perceived by opposition fans/players. The question is are we just motivating opposition and not doing ourselves any favours? It's great to be excited and cheer and sing about it coming home, but where do we draw the line? Is this something that we get unnecessary stick for and other nations do the same or are we simply just too much. Tonight was annoying as fuck having to watch Bonucci shout "It's coming to Rome" through my TV screen and see Chiellini posing with the trophy with the exact same caption. Sometimes I feel we shoot ourselves in the foot. Something that was fun is now just painful and is just taken by them into "It's coming to Rome" I don't know where I'm going with this anymore as I'm drunk, but thought I'd share the thought. Grazie! Uh I mean thanks. What about the booing of Shaun Wright-Phillips, Kris Commons, Robinho, Danny Rose etc. Arnautovic was the anomaly, not the norm I am not even sure he was the anomaly my memory is he missed many chances he'd normally score kept away from the boothen was getting angrier and angrier and was definitely put off his game, he only gave it the big one after he scored which considering the registered charity status of our defence wasnt that much of an achievement. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 12, 2021 8:04:28 GMT
I don't think either the Three Lions song or the booing of the anthem made any difference. I'm sure winning Euro 2020 was all the motivation Italy needed. However I do think Three Lions has got a bit stale and we could do with a new song. They're simply a better side with a better coach and worthy champions. Nothing to do with booing or anything else. They They were on the night, but honestly, how many of the Italian players would have been selected for England? I think only Donnarumma would be a safe one and then maybe Jorghino. Apart from these two none would have been picked for an England's first 11. England lost because they decided to sit back and ride their luck instead of trying to dictate the game. You also get more tired of running after the opposition players instead of controlling the ball more. England lost because they chose the wrong tactics after they scored in my opinion.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 9:18:55 GMT
Seeing 40/50year old plus men booing ex players makes them look nothing more than ridiculous. I guess many players see them in the same way and rightly so Seeing 40/50 year old men trolling every single day on message boards of football clubs in other countries makes them look nothing more than ridiculous. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 12, 2021 9:23:28 GMT
They're simply a better side with a better coach and worthy champions. Nothing to do with booing or anything else. They They were on the night, but honestly, how many of the Italian players would have been selected for England? I think only Donnarumma would be a safe one and then maybe Jorghino. Apart from these two none would have been picked for an England's first 11. England lost because the decided to sit back and ride their luck instead of trying to dictate the game. You also get more tired of running after the opposition players instead of controlling the ball more. England lost because they chose the wrong tactics after they scored in my opinion. There were midfielders on Italy’s bench who walk into England’s side imo. |
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Jul 12, 2021 10:53:00 GMT
They're simply a better side with a better coach and worthy champions. Nothing to do with booing or anything else. They They were on the night, but honestly, how many of the Italian players would have been selected for England? I think only Donnarumma would be a safe one and then maybe Jorghino. Apart from these two none would have been picked for an England's first 11. England lost because the decided to sit back and ride their luck instead of trying to dictate the game. You also get more tired of running after the opposition players instead of controlling the ball more. England lost because they chose the wrong tactics after they scored in my opinion. I'd wager Southgate would love to have someone of the ability and direct running of Chiesa at his disposal? |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 12, 2021 14:11:30 GMT
They were on the night, but honestly, how many of the Italian players would have been selected for England? I think only Donnarumma would be a safe one and then maybe Jorghino. Apart from these two none would have been picked for an England's first 11. England lost because the decided to sit back and ride their luck instead of trying to dictate the game. You also get more tired of running after the opposition players instead of controlling the ball more. England lost because they chose the wrong tactics after they scored in my opinion. There were midfielders on Italy’s bench who walk into England’s side imo. I honestly don't think there were!  |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 12, 2021 14:15:00 GMT
They were on the night, but honestly, how many of the Italian players would have been selected for England? I think only Donnarumma would be a safe one and then maybe Jorghino. Apart from these two none would have been picked for an England's first 11. England lost because the decided to sit back and ride their luck instead of trying to dictate the game. You also get more tired of running after the opposition players instead of controlling the ball more. England lost because they chose the wrong tactics after they scored in my opinion. I'd wager Southgate would love to have someone of the ability and direct running of Chiesa at his disposal? I really like Chiesa, but does he really play in midfield? Anyway still not sure he would be a first choice in England's first 11. Has he been a first choice for Italy the whole tournament? |
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Post by damagedswan on Jul 12, 2021 16:04:34 GMT
There were midfielders on Italy’s bench who walk into England’s side imo. I honestly don't think there were! This is mad. Verratti has a reasonable claim to be the best in the world in his position. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 12, 2021 16:06:51 GMT
I honestly don't think there were! This is mad. Verratti has a reasonable claim to be the best in the world in his position. Was he on the bench? |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 12, 2021 16:15:49 GMT
This is mad. Verratti has a reasonable claim to be the best in the world in his position. Was he on the bench? No but he wasn't one of the players you said would get into England's starting XI nor was Chiesa and both absolutely would...... |
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Post by damagedswan on Jul 12, 2021 16:39:13 GMT
This is mad. Verratti has a reasonable claim to be the best in the world in his position. Was he on the bench? Sorry I suppose I quoted the wrong message. But in any case central midfield is undoubtedly an area of greater strength for Italy than England, and I don't think claiming that Locatelli, Pessina or Cristante are better than, for example, Kalvin Phillips is an outrageous claim. But I'd repeat that arguing that Rice and Phillips would keep Verratti out of the side (as your original post did!) really is crazy! |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 12, 2021 16:40:48 GMT
There were midfielders on Italy’s bench who walk into England’s side imo. I honestly don't think there were! Locatelli walks in. I like Phillips and Rice but he has that dynamism as well as the toughness and provides a link between defence and the forward players that we often lacked. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 12, 2021 17:13:35 GMT
Was he on the bench? No but he wasn't one of the players you said would get into England's starting XI nor was Chiesa and both absolutely would...... I'm not too sure about that. Who would they replace? |
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Post by TinkerT on Jul 12, 2021 17:17:33 GMT
They're simply a better side with a better coach and worthy champions. Nothing to do with booing or anything else. They They were on the night, but honestly, how many of the Italian players would have been selected for England? I think only Donnarumma would be a safe one and then maybe Jorghino. Apart from these two none would have been picked for an England's first 11. England lost because they decided to sit back and ride their luck instead of trying to dictate the game. You also get more tired of running after the opposition players instead of controlling the ball more. England lost because they chose the wrong tactics after they scored in my opinion. Said it myself if he took kane and Sterling off when he brought on grealish and put sancho with Rashford we would have been them in normal time. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 12, 2021 17:21:43 GMT
Was he on the bench? Sorry I suppose I quoted the wrong message. But in any case central midfield is undoubtedly an area of greater strength for Italy than England, and I don't think claiming that Locatelli, Pessina or Cristante are better than, for example, Kalvin Phillips is an outrageous claim. But I'd repeat that arguing that Rice and Phillips would keep Verratti out of the side (as your original post did!) really is crazy! Veratti is a good player, but I'm not so sure Southgate would have replaced any of Phillips or Rice anyway. We can have an opinion about it, but Rice and Phillips are doing great in the best and most competitive league in the world. If you compare the PL teams to most Italian and French teams they are in another world finacially and because of this the weaker teams are much stronger in the PL. Because of this I'm not as sure as many that the two English midfielders would have been replaced by those Italians mentioned, crazy or not. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 12, 2021 17:22:49 GMT
I honestly don't think there were! Locatelli walks in. I like Phillips and Rice but he has that dynamism as well as the toughness and provides a link between defence and the forward players that we often lacked. Wasn't he just a sub yesterday? |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 12, 2021 17:35:44 GMT
Locatelli walks in. I like Phillips and Rice but he has that dynamism as well as the toughness and provides a link between defence and the forward players that we often lacked. Wasn't he just a sub yesterday? Yes, that was quite literally my point. 🙂 |
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Post by hardcastle on Jul 12, 2021 19:48:19 GMT
The arrogance thing is just bullshit. And anyone misunderstanding it’s coming home is just weird. It’s a self deprecating song about the daft hope we have despite their not being much reason for it. Nowt to do with jingoism, triumphalism or arrogance, the song is about hope against the reality of decades of underachievement. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 12, 2021 20:12:38 GMT
Wasn't he just a sub yesterday? Yes, that was quite literally my point. 🙂 ....but still better than the English midfielders? If he is so good he'll probably end up for one of the top teams in the PL I presume.  |
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Post by gawa on Jul 12, 2021 22:56:21 GMT
I think suggesting none of the Italy players other than the GK would get in the England team is just an example of the arrogance spoken about by OP.
Chiellini and Bonucci alone have won more cup finals in which they've been in the starting XI than the whole England starting XI have together.
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