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Post by a on Aug 24, 2021 22:01:50 GMT
Who has said Ronaldo was signed to win the CL? Or that Messi was? Is that a stated reason for their signings, or an assumption because the clubs haven’t won it recently (PSG ever)? Is it not that Ronaldo left because of an allegation made against him and a souring of his relationship with the club president? Didn’t Messi leave because of the financial state at Barca? That’s why left. They have both been signed with that one thing in mind. Anyone that follows football will know that. Both boards are/were desperate for that trophy. Again, not sure why this is an argument because it’s a given in the wider footballing world. Nice little backhanded insinuation that by not thinking they’re signed to win the CL means I don’t know football. I’m sure they were signed hoping for that but only a 100,000 posting sad little man with a god complex would suggest that them not winning it makes them failures. That is a given in the wider Oatcake world. 😊
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 24, 2021 22:06:01 GMT
That’s why left. They have both been signed with that one thing in mind. Anyone that follows football will know that. Both boards are/were desperate for that trophy. Again, not sure why this is an argument because it’s a given in the wider footballing world. Nice little backhanded insinuation that by not thinking they’re signed to win the CL means I don’t know football. I’m sure they were signed hoping for that but only a 100,000 posting sad little man with a god complex would suggest that them not winning it makes them failures. That is a given in the wider Oatcake world. 😊 Its not an insinuation. I said it. It’s the reason both were signed. Again, it’s not even a debate. But hey you’ve created an unnecessary argument from something that is/was a given. Well done.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 24, 2021 22:07:10 GMT
That’s why left. They have both been signed with that one thing in mind. Anyone that follows football will know that. Both boards are/were desperate for that trophy. Again, not sure why this is an argument because it’s a given in the wider footballing world. Nice little backhanded insinuation that by not thinking they’re signed to win the CL means I don’t know football. I’m sure they were signed hoping for that but only a 100,000 posting sad little man with a god complex would suggest that them not winning it makes them failures. That is a given in the wider Oatcake world. 😊 Here you go, now pipe down 👍 www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/08/14/football/psg-no-excuses-after-lionel-messi-signing-spt-cmd-intl/index.html
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Post by Picasso on Aug 24, 2021 22:24:06 GMT
That article refers to the various signings that have been made. Failure to win the CL etc. would mean that the collective team / squad had failed. However, an individual player (let’s say Messi), as an individual, may have still had a successful season. That is possible. This is a TEAM game. You don’t sign one player to win the CL, you sign several and add them to your existing squad. If you fail to win it, then you can’t blame just one player. Signing Messi just means that their aim is, in theory, a step closer, but still not a given. Even the article only stretches enough to say that PSG are ‘considerably closer’ to achieving their ‘ultimate goal’... Again, they’re relying on a squad and not one player!
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Post by a on Aug 24, 2021 22:33:16 GMT
That article refers to the various signings that have been made. Failure to win the CL etc. would mean that the collective team / squad had failed. However, an individual player (let’s say Messi), as an individual, may have still had a successful season. That is possible. This is a TEAM game. You don’t sign one player to win the CL, you sign several and add them to your existing squad. If you fail to win it, then you can’t blame just one player. Signing Messi just means that their aim is, in theory, a step closer, but still not a given. Even the article only stretches enough to say that PSG are ‘considerably closer’ to achieving their ‘ultimate goal’... Again, they’re relying on a squad and not one player! Exactly. God complex sees it differently and has to make snidey little remarks but that is the “man” he is. Lives on this message board because he probably gets picked on in the real world . Shame for him.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 24, 2021 22:39:28 GMT
That article refers to the various signings that have been made. Failure to win the CL etc. would mean that the collective team / squad had failed. However, an individual player (let’s say Messi), as an individual, may have still had a successful season. That is possible. This is a TEAM game. You don’t sign one player to win the CL, you sign several and add them to your existing squad. If you fail to win it, then you can’t blame just one player. Signing Messi just means that their aim is, in theory, a step closer, but still not a given. Even the article only stretches enough to say that PSG are ‘considerably closer’ to achieving their ‘ultimate goal’... Again, they’re relying on a squad and not one player! They have both signed them to win the Champions League.
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Post by Picasso on Aug 24, 2021 22:52:04 GMT
That article refers to the various signings that have been made. Failure to win the CL etc. would mean that the collective team / squad had failed. However, an individual player (let’s say Messi), as an individual, may have still had a successful season. That is possible. This is a TEAM game. You don’t sign one player to win the CL, you sign several and add them to your existing squad. If you fail to win it, then you can’t blame just one player. Signing Messi just means that their aim is, in theory, a step closer, but still not a given. Even the article only stretches enough to say that PSG are ‘considerably closer’ to achieving their ‘ultimate goal’... Again, they’re relying on a squad and not one player! They have both signed them to win the Champions League. Ah, I haven’t disagreed with that, but what I have disagreed with is the notion that, if PSG fail to win the CL, then Messi will have been a failure, no questions asked!.. In this scenario, he may have been a failure, but that is not 100% a given as this is a TEAM game.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 24, 2021 22:54:00 GMT
They have both signed them to win the Champions League. Ah, I haven’t disagreed with that, but what I have disagreed with is the notion that, if PSG fail to win the CL, then Messi will have been a failure, no questions asked!.. In this scenario, he may have been a failure, but that is not 100% a given as this is a TEAM game. It is but Messi and Ronaldo were signed to win their sides that competition. They will have both failed if they don’t do it. Juve’s poor performance (relatively for them) since Ronaldo arrived is just amusing. I only hope PSG do the same 👍
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Post by Picasso on Aug 24, 2021 23:03:50 GMT
Ah, I haven’t disagreed with that, but what I have disagreed with is the notion that, if PSG fail to win the CL, then Messi will have been a failure, no questions asked!.. In this scenario, he may have been a failure, but that is not 100% a given as this is a TEAM game. It is but Messi and Ronaldo were signed to win their sides that competition. They will have both failed if they don’t do it. It is, but Messi and Ronaldo were signed to win their sides that competition, with help from their team mates. Their squads will have failed if they don’t do it, regardless of how good a season they’ve had, as individuals. 😉
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 24, 2021 23:09:14 GMT
It is but Messi and Ronaldo were signed to win their sides that competition. They will have both failed if they don’t do it. It is, but Messi and Ronaldo were signed to win their sides that competition, with help from their team mates. Their squads will have failed if they don’t do it, regardless of how good a season they’ve had, as individuals. 😉 I don’t agree sorry. They have been bought for the sole purpose of leading their team to CL glory.
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Post by Picasso on Aug 24, 2021 23:17:19 GMT
It is, but Messi and Ronaldo were signed to win their sides that competition, with help from their team mates. Their squads will have failed if they don’t do it, regardless of how good a season they’ve had, as individuals. 😉 I don’t agree sorry. They have been bought for the sole purpose of leading their team to CL glory. Well, we all see things differently, but I think that your view of this is wrong and flies in the face of what football is all about - In short, a team game, 11v11, not 1v11.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 23:59:07 GMT
Ah, I haven’t disagreed with that, but what I have disagreed with is the notion that, if PSG fail to win the CL, then Messi will have been a failure, no questions asked!.. In this scenario, he may have been a failure, but that is not 100% a given as this is a TEAM game. It is but Messi and Ronaldo were signed to win their sides that competition. They will have both failed if they don’t do it. Juve’s poor performance (relatively for them) since Ronaldo arrived is just amusing. I only hope PSG do the same 👍 Ronaldo has still scored 81 in 98 in Serie A according to their wiki. I can’t see how he could do much more really, especially as he signed at what, 34? They also won the title 2 year out of the 3 he was there and the cup last year. They had a ridiculous decade, but the Milan’s are finally starting to come back to the forefront, which is nothing but good for Italian football. They’re also signed to improve clubs sales and marketability. I’d imagine both have succeeded in that.
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Post by fplstokegeneral on Aug 25, 2021 12:08:36 GMT
It is, but Messi and Ronaldo were signed to win their sides that competition, with help from their team mates. Their squads will have failed if they don’t do it, regardless of how good a season they’ve had, as individuals. 😉 I don’t agree sorry. They have been bought for the sole purpose of leading their team to CL glory. Bayern is absolutely right. Juventus fans aren’t bothered if Ronaldo leaves as he’s turned them from a harmonic Champions League contending team to missing out on the league title and year on year performing worse in the champions league.
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Post by werrington on Aug 25, 2021 12:21:55 GMT
I don’t agree sorry. They have been bought for the sole purpose of leading their team to CL glory. Bayern is absolutely right. Juventus fans aren’t bothered if Ronaldo leaves as he’s turned them from a harmonic Champions League contending team to missing out on the league title and year on year performing worse in the champions league. How the fuck does that work? He scored 44 yes FORTY FOUR goals last season and 95 yes NINETY FIVE over two seasons
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 25, 2021 13:01:27 GMT
Bayern is absolutely right. Juventus fans aren’t bothered if Ronaldo leaves as he’s turned them from a harmonic Champions League contending team to missing out on the league title and year on year performing worse in the champions league. How the fuck does that work? He scored 44 yes FORTY FOUR goals last season and 95 yes NINETY FIVE over two seasons Because the team doesn’t function as well as it did without him? He hasn’t improved them.
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Post by Picasso on Aug 25, 2021 13:04:59 GMT
I don’t agree sorry. They have been bought for the sole purpose of leading their team to CL glory. Bayern is absolutely right. Juventus fans aren’t bothered if Ronaldo leaves as he’s turned them from a harmonic Champions League contending team to missing out on the league title and year on year performing worse in the champions league. Not sure why you quoted me here as I haven’t talked about the merits of Ronaldo’s stay at juve, at all. ... But to respond to your comment, again this is a TEAM game and to suggest that one player has turned them into ‘also rans’ is ridiculous. Not only that, but Ronaldo’s record in Turin, as pointed out, isn’t that shabby.
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Post by Picasso on Aug 25, 2021 13:08:06 GMT
How the fuck does that work? He scored 44 yes FORTY FOUR goals last season and 95 yes NINETY FIVE over two seasons Because the team doesn’t function as well as it did without him? He hasn’t improved them. This is too simplistic. There are too many factors... So many factors that will determine why a team has performed better or worse from one season to the next. It can’t just be aimed at one player.
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Post by werrington on Aug 25, 2021 13:22:13 GMT
How the fuck does that work? He scored 44 yes FORTY FOUR goals last season and 95 yes NINETY FIVE over two seasons Because the team doesn’t function as well as it did without him? He hasn’t improved them. 😂😂 So fuck him off for a 15 goal a season striker then
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2021 13:23:10 GMT
Because the team doesn’t function as well as it did without him? He hasn’t improved them. This is too simplistic. There are too many factors... So many factors that will determine why a team has performed better or worse from one season to the next. It can’t just be aimed at one player. Exactly. If you are scoring enough goals on your own to be contenders for pretty much anything, then more questions need to be asked of other players as to why the team isn’t there, namely the defence and goalkeeper.
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Post by markby on Aug 25, 2021 13:47:25 GMT
Because the team doesn’t function as well as it did without him? He hasn’t improved them. This is too simplistic. There are too many factors... So many factors that will determine why a team has performed better or worse from one season to the next. It can’t just be aimed at one player. Spot on, Picasso.
Juve haven't won the CL for a quarter of a century (1995/96).
And if they haven't done much in the two seasons Ronaldo has been there (Round of 16), just look at their record over the previous decade or more to see it's "patchy", to put it mildly - at least for a side which was winning Serie A every season:
Which indicates that far from being the cause of the problem, Ronaldo is actually a symptom. That is, with Juve going increasingly into debt in their forlorn chase to win the CL, the team was gradually declining, while they lacked the funds to reinforce it properly.
Which is why they signed Ronaldo: he was available on a free, while his image rights etc would take care of a big chunk of his salary*.
But despite his outstanding scoring record for them, not even he could halt the rot, since the rot ran too deep.
In years gone by, they'd have been signing eg an Mbappe or a Haaland to take them to the next level, but now they can't even afford to keep Ronaldo.
All of which goes to explain why they (and those other two hugely indebted clubs, Real Madric and Barca) are desperate for an ESL to save them from going bust.
None of which can be put down to Ronaldo.
* - Italy passed a law a couple of years back which basically said that overseas players coming in from overseas would only have to pay the half the normal Italian income tax rate, showing just what a desperate financial state Italian football is in: (Also explains why Ronaldo went there, rather than France or England etc)
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 26, 2021 6:31:55 GMT
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Post by GeneralFaye on Aug 26, 2021 6:36:45 GMT
Just for the complete meltdown by Man Utd fans, I'm well up for this.
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Post by noustie on Aug 26, 2021 7:15:52 GMT
Just for the complete meltdown by Man Utd fans, I'm well up for this. Andy Goldstein was already losing his shit over it on Talk Bollocks - ‘but Fergie was like a father’. Bell end!
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Post by upthefud on Aug 26, 2021 9:32:42 GMT
Because the team doesn’t function as well as it did without him? He hasn’t improved them. 😂😂 So fuck him off for a 15 goal a season striker then Ronaldo is a class above and for me better than Messi, however it isn’t all about goals. Sidibe was an absolutely crucial cog for us and scored what, 10,15 in his years here? If Juve sigh someone who can bring more goals out of the likes of Dybala and others it could improve them overall
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Post by werrington on Aug 26, 2021 10:02:57 GMT
😂😂 So fuck him off for a 15 goal a season striker then Ronaldo is a class above and for me better than Messi, however it isn’t all about goals. Sidibe was an absolutely crucial cog for us and scored what, 10,15 in his years here? If Juve sigh someone who can bring more goals out of the likes of Dybala and others it could improve them overall He’s scored 95 goals in 2 seasons …I don’t think Ronaldo is the problem at juventus If you think taking somebody out of the side with that goal ratio to improve them you’ve lost the plot as the idea of winning football matches is to score goals
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Post by xchpotter on Aug 26, 2021 10:20:44 GMT
Really hope this happens and if it does, when they play Man City, I might actually tune in to watch Man Utd to see the histrionics.
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Post by questionable on Aug 26, 2021 13:20:58 GMT
Just signed
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2021 13:26:53 GMT
Going to Man City is a great idea. They get a star for two seasons and as he moves to a bench warmer, Delap can (potentially) replace him.
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Post by themistocles on Aug 26, 2021 13:36:22 GMT
Man City group will offer him a few seasons in New York prior to "retirement " after to live the high life whilst still racking it in.
No brainer for city with the revenue he'd generate in merchandise.
Best deal Ronaldo could get.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 26, 2021 15:45:25 GMT
It is now understood that City are pressing ahead and holding talks with Ronaldo's representatives at agency Gestifute over a possible move for Ronaldo. A deal has not yet been agreed with either Ronaldo or Juventus for a move.
As things stand, sources close to the situation describe City as being in “pole position” — although it appears to be a field of one.
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