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Post by crapslinger on May 14, 2021 6:18:03 GMT
From the Telegraph :
More than five million EU citizens living in the UK have applied for settled status, nearly double the number thought to be residents before the EU referendum, official figures revealed on Thursday.
It would be interesting if we could have a breakdown of these numbers by nationality, my guess is many will be eastern Europeans, why do we need so many of them we should follow the Spanish 90 day model plus set income level minimums of £21,000 a year for the first adult and £5,000 for additional adults then extra for children if they can't meet those requirements for five years, if they don't meet those requirements no residency. Apply that to all who wish to come and live here  |
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Post by yeokel on May 14, 2021 7:42:49 GMT
My guess would be that many are Eastern Europeans too.
And good luck to them, they are welcome here as far as I’m concerned as most of the ones I’ve encountered are hard working people who think they can make a better life for themselves and their family over here rather than over there. Their hard work will be a positive factor in helping our economy recover after the pandemic and, once they are more established here, they will hopefully start demanding a fair wage for their labours rather than being used as slave labour to drive down wage costs as many of them are at the moment.
And besides........ if they weren’t here, I’d have to start washing the car myself again.
Edit - typo.
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Post by Dave the Rave on May 14, 2021 8:00:44 GMT
From the Telegraph :
More than five million EU citizens living in the UK have applied for settled status, nearly double the number thought to be residents before the EU referendum, official figures revealed on Thursday.
It would be interesting if we could have a breakdown of these numbers by nationality, my guess is many will be eastern Europeans, why do we need so many of them we should follow the Spanish 90 day model plus set income level minimums of £21,000 a year for the first adult and £5,000 for additional adults then extra for children if they can't meet those requirements for five years, if they don't meet those requirements no residency. Apply that to all who wish to come and live here I'd imagine the reason we need so many is down to capitalism needing to suppress wages and British people not wanting to do low paid work. Thank God they're here I say, can you imagine the state of the country with 5 million less workers? |
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Post by raythesailor on May 14, 2021 8:12:29 GMT
There are thousands possibly millions of UK citizens applying for residency in places like Spain, Portugal Greece etc.
One anomaly of the Brexit agreement is that EU citizens can visit the UK for up to 180 days in 360 without any permits or visas.
UK citizens however can only visit the EU for 90 days in 180. This is causing problems for property owners abroad many of whom normally spend far more time using their properties than this short 90 day period. ⚓️
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Post by crapslinger on May 14, 2021 8:25:43 GMT
My guess would be that many are Eastern Europeans too. And good luck to them, they are welcome here as far as I’m concerned as most of the ones I’ve encountered are hard working people who think they can make a better life for themselves and their family over here rather than over there. Their hard work will be a positive factor in helping our economy recover after the pandemic and, once they are more established here, they will hopefully start demanding a fair wage for their labours rather than being used as slave labour to drive down wage costs as many of them are at the moment. And besides........ if they weren’t here, I’d have to start washing the car myself again. Edit - typo. If they are working for NMW chances are they will be subsidising their income with tax credits which will out strip any input they have into the tax system, the population is growing beyond sustainable levels in this country hence the need for increased housing and putting further pressure on our NHS, Schools and other services. Why not do as the Spain, France etc . are doing with minimum levels of income guarantees set as I stated for five years before been allowed to apply for citizenship ? You do realise many of those "car washes" are manned by illegal immigrants/slaves don't you 
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Post by crapslinger on May 14, 2021 8:28:03 GMT
There are thousands possibly millions of UK citizens applying for residency in places like Spain, Portugal Greece etc. One anomaly of the Brexit agreement is that EU citizens can visit the UK for up to 180 days in 360 without any permits or visas. UK citizens however can only visit the EU for 90 days in 180. This is causing problems for property owners abroad many of whom normally spend far more time using their properties than this short 90 day period. ⚓️ The guaranteed levels of income is the biggest issue with Brits looking to move to Europe we should reciprocate that ruling for EU citizens looking to become settled here. |
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Post by Orbs on May 14, 2021 8:29:13 GMT
Here we go again...
'Heads back hold tight please....'
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Post by mrcoke on May 14, 2021 8:43:23 GMT
I welcome immigrants. They generally come to earn a living and contribute to our society and make a positive impact. By introducing immigration control post Brexit we can vet people and check they are not coming illegally, to commit crime, or sponge off our society. Australia is a model for this that positively encourages and assists those immigrants who are going to add to their GDP. We are all immigrants if you go back far enough. Immigration over thousands of years has created Britishness. It creates our outstanding qualities of inventiveness and innovation, strong character, fairness, generosity, and selflessness. The media report the dark side of our society but that only represents a tiny minority. www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-world-s-most-charitable-nations.html#:~:text=Countries%20That%20Give%20the%20Most%20to%20Charity%201,...%204%20United%20States.%20...%205%20Ireland.%20 The UK is not the most charitable country in the world, but it is in the top ten and many others in the top ten have strong links with Britain. The notable exception is Indonesia who we are working on creating closer relationships. Being the world's fourth largest population country, there would bee huge benefits by a closer relationship. www.eastasiaforum.org/2021/01/30/time-to-strengthen-the-uk-indonesia-economic-relationship/ |
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Post by yeokel on May 14, 2021 8:58:01 GMT
My guess would be that many are Eastern Europeans too. And good luck to them, they are welcome here as far as I’m concerned as most of the ones I’ve encountered are hard working people who think they can make a better life for themselves and their family over here rather than over there. Their hard work will be a positive factor in helping our economy recover after the pandemic and, once they are more established here, they will hopefully start demanding a fair wage for their labours rather than being used as slave labour to drive down wage costs as many of them are at the moment. And besides........ if they weren’t here, I’d have to start washing the car myself again. Edit - typo. If they are working for NMW chances are they will be subsidising their income with tax credits which will out strip any input they have into the tax system, the population is growing beyond sustainable levels in this country hence the need for increased housing and putting further pressure on our NHS, Schools and other services. Why not do as the Spain, France etc . are doing with minimum levels of income guarantees set as I stated for five years before been allowed to apply for citizenship ? You do realise many of those "car washes" are manned by illegal immigrants/slaves don't you
“ You do realise many of those "car washes" are manned by illegal immigrants/slaves don't you” I have no idea how many are or are not. I do know that the one just down the road from our house is owned/run by a delightful girl who is far too intelligent to be washing cars. However, she came over here a few years ago with her brother and somehow ended up doing what she’s doing. They then bought their father over to help out and they now run a very small but successful business providing a service that many of us can’t be bothered to do for ourselves. They have even bought a house  There is no doubt she will move on to bigger and better things and I don’t think any slavey will be involved. And, I’m sure most of the immigrants would love to have an income guarantee as I think you’ve suggested because many deserve more than the pittance they are paid at the moment. Some of your arguments are as old as immigration itself. I remember many of them being trotted out against the Ugandan Asians in the ‘70s but many of them have “integrated” to a greater or lesser extent and either built successful businesses, or become successful professionals in other fields. (not all, I’ll grant you, but many.) And, since you mention the strains on the NHS – where would the NHS be without immigrants? They are the backbone of the ward staff from what I’ve seen – and most are very caring, honourable people. Same with care homes too. There are immigrants who don’t, or don’t want to fit in to “our” ways, it is true, just the same as there are British who live abroad and don’t integrate in to their new local communities. But I think they are in the minority. Most want to ‘fit in’ and do well for themselves & their kin. Thinking about it……. Wasn’t it you who was suggesting you were emigrating to Spain a year or two back? If so, do you think you might learn Spanish and try to fit in with their ways and customs, or would you remain staunchly British? (if it wasn’t you, I’ve obviously got the wrong person) |
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Post by mrcoke on May 14, 2021 9:18:56 GMT
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Post by thevoid on May 14, 2021 9:29:29 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 14, 2021 10:16:15 GMT
My guess would be that many are Eastern Europeans too. And good luck to them, they are welcome here as far as I’m concerned as most of the ones I’ve encountered are hard working people who think they can make a better life for themselves and their family over here rather than over there. Their hard work will be a positive factor in helping our economy recover after the pandemic and, once they are more established here, they will hopefully start demanding a fair wage for their labours rather than being used as slave labour to drive down wage costs as many of them are at the moment. And besides........ if they weren’t here, I’d have to start washing the car myself again. Edit - typo. If they are working for NMW chances are they will be subsidising their income with tax credits which will out strip any input they have into the tax system, the population is growing beyond sustainable levels in this country hence the need for increased housing and putting further pressure on our NHS, Schools and other services. Why not do as the Spain, France etc . are doing with minimum levels of income guarantees set as I stated for five years before been allowed to apply for citizenship ? You do realise many of those "car washes" are manned by illegal immigrants/slaves don't you
What about the 150,000 that work in the care sector for predominantly minimum wage, or the NHS cleaners and porters working flat out during the pandemic? Does their input not extend beyond the tax system. And those strawberries you bought from the supermarket, the parcel you ordered off Amazon, your Deliveroo takeaway? All handled at some point by Eastern Europeans doing jobs that otherwise wouldn't be filled. |
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Post by dutchstokie on May 14, 2021 10:21:01 GMT
Here we go again... 'Heads back hold tight please....' Aye this could be a belter this one.......minimum 20 pages Im going for ! 'Ave it !  |
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Post by crapslinger on May 14, 2021 10:25:24 GMT
If they are working for NMW chances are they will be subsidising their income with tax credits which will out strip any input they have into the tax system, the population is growing beyond sustainable levels in this country hence the need for increased housing and putting further pressure on our NHS, Schools and other services. Why not do as the Spain, France etc . are doing with minimum levels of income guarantees set as I stated for five years before been allowed to apply for citizenship ? You do realise many of those "car washes" are manned by illegal immigrants/slaves don't you
“ You do realise many of those "car washes" are manned by illegal immigrants/slaves don't you” I have no idea how many are or are not. I do know that the one just down the road from our house is owned/run by a delightful girl who is far too intelligent to be washing cars. However, she came over here a few years ago with her brother and somehow ended up doing what she’s doing. They then bought their father over to help out and they now run a very small but successful business providing a service that many of us can’t be bothered to do for ourselves. They have even bought a house There is no doubt she will move on to bigger and better things and I don’t think any slavey will be involved. And, I’m sure most of the immigrants would love to have an income guarantee as I think you’ve suggested because many deserve more than the pittance they are paid at the moment. Some of your arguments are as old as immigration itself. I remember many of them being trotted out against the Ugandan Asians in the ‘70s but many of them have “integrated” to a greater or lesser extent and either built successful businesses, or become successful professionals in other fields. (not all, I’ll grant you, but many.) And, since you mention the strains on the NHS – where would the NHS be without immigrants? They are the backbone of the ward staff from what I’ve seen – and most are very caring, honourable people. Same with care homes too. There are immigrants who don’t, or don’t want to fit in to “our” ways, it is true, just the same as there are British who live abroad and don’t integrate in to their new local communities. But I think they are in the minority. Most want to ‘fit in’ and do well for themselves & their kin. Thinking about it……. Wasn’t it you who was suggesting you were emigrating to Spain a year or two back? If so, do you think you might learn Spanish and try to fit in with their ways and customs, or would you remain staunchly British? (if it wasn’t you, I’ve obviously got the wrong person) |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 14, 2021 12:46:42 GMT
I welcome immigrants. They generally come to earn a living and contribute to our society and make a positive impact. By introducing immigration control post Brexit we can vet people and check they are not coming illegally, to commit crime, or sponge off our society. Australia is a model for this that positively encourages and assists those immigrants who are going to add to their GDP. We are all immigrants if you go back far enough. Immigration over thousands of years has created Britishness. It creates our outstanding qualities of inventiveness and innovation, strong character, fairness, generosity, and selflessness. The media report the dark side of our society but that only represents a tiny minority. www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-world-s-most-charitable-nations.html#:~:text=Countries%20That%20Give%20the%20Most%20to%20Charity%201,...%204%20United%20States.%20...%205%20Ireland.%20 The UK is not the most charitable country in the world, but it is in the top ten and many others in the top ten have strong links with Britain. The notable exception is Indonesia who we are working on creating closer relationships. Being the world's fourth largest population country, there would bee huge benefits by a closer relationship. www.eastasiaforum.org/2021/01/30/time-to-strengthen-the-uk-indonesia-economic-relationship/Indeed so. Most independent assessments of immigration to this country identify that they make a positive contribution economically when everything is taken into account, and that makes sense since they are generally younger workers who are sick less often than older, non-working individuals who are less likely to enter the country. There is an argument that societally there are negative impacts, but overall I'd say it was positive. No immigration, no Super Jon Walters... |
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Post by crapslinger on May 14, 2021 14:29:42 GMT
Interesting reading from the Government Website Asylum Support:
What you'll get
You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.
Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.
You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.
Cash support
You’ll get £39.63 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.
Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine.
If you’ve been refused asylum
You’ll be given:
somewhere to live
£39.63 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries
You will not be given:
the payment card if you do not take the offer of somewhere to live
any money
Extra money for mothers and young children
You’ll get extra money to buy healthy food if you’re pregnant or a mother of a child under 3. The amount you get will depend on your situation.
Your situation Extra payment per week
Pregnant mother £3
Baby under 1 year old £5
Child aged 1 to 3 £3
Maternity payment
You can apply for a one-off £300 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.
If you’ve been refused asylum
You can apply for a one-off £250 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.
Applying for the maternity grant
You apply for the maternity grant in the same way whether you’re still an asylum seeker or you’ve been refused asylum.
You’ll need to request form MAT B1 from your doctor to apply for the payment. You can apply for the maternity payment at the same time you apply for asylum support.
If you get pregnant after you’ve applied for asylum support, you can apply to the support team that dealt with your application for asylum support.
Healthcare
You may get free National Health Service (NHS) healthcare, such as to see a doctor or get hospital treatment.
You’ll also get:
free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses
Education
Your children must attend school if they are aged 5 to 17. All state schools are free and your children may be able to get free school meals.
No wonder they want to come here all those free entitlements truth is we are paying for them  |
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Post by Orbs on May 14, 2021 14:51:08 GMT
Interesting reading from the Government Website Asylum Support:
What you'll get
You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.
Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.
You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.
Cash support
You’ll get £39.63 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.
Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine.
If you’ve been refused asylum
You’ll be given:
somewhere to live
£39.63 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries
You will not be given:
the payment card if you do not take the offer of somewhere to live
any money
Extra money for mothers and young children
You’ll get extra money to buy healthy food if you’re pregnant or a mother of a child under 3. The amount you get will depend on your situation.
Your situation Extra payment per week
Pregnant mother £3
Baby under 1 year old £5
Child aged 1 to 3 £3
Maternity payment
You can apply for a one-off £300 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.
If you’ve been refused asylum
You can apply for a one-off £250 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.
Applying for the maternity grant
You apply for the maternity grant in the same way whether you’re still an asylum seeker or you’ve been refused asylum.
You’ll need to request form MAT B1 from your doctor to apply for the payment. You can apply for the maternity payment at the same time you apply for asylum support.
If you get pregnant after you’ve applied for asylum support, you can apply to the support team that dealt with your application for asylum support.
Healthcare
You may get free National Health Service (NHS) healthcare, such as to see a doctor or get hospital treatment.
You’ll also get:
free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses
Education
Your children must attend school if they are aged 5 to 17. All state schools are free and your children may be able to get free school meals.
No wonder they want to come here all those free entitlements truth is we are paying for them Ah right - so we've gone from a thread about 'EU citizens in the UK' to 'Government support for Asylum seekers' in the blink of an eye. 'Scream if you want to go faster...' |
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Post by mrcoke on May 14, 2021 15:15:51 GMT
Interesting reading from the Government Website Asylum Support:
What you'll get
You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.
Housing
You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.
You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.
Cash support
You’ll get £39.63 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.
Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine.
If you’ve been refused asylum
You’ll be given:
somewhere to live
£39.63 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries
You will not be given:
the payment card if you do not take the offer of somewhere to live
any money
Extra money for mothers and young children
You’ll get extra money to buy healthy food if you’re pregnant or a mother of a child under 3. The amount you get will depend on your situation.
Your situation Extra payment per week
Pregnant mother £3
Baby under 1 year old £5
Child aged 1 to 3 £3
Maternity payment
You can apply for a one-off £300 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.
If you’ve been refused asylum
You can apply for a one-off £250 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.
Applying for the maternity grant
You apply for the maternity grant in the same way whether you’re still an asylum seeker or you’ve been refused asylum.
You’ll need to request form MAT B1 from your doctor to apply for the payment. You can apply for the maternity payment at the same time you apply for asylum support.
If you get pregnant after you’ve applied for asylum support, you can apply to the support team that dealt with your application for asylum support.
Healthcare
You may get free National Health Service (NHS) healthcare, such as to see a doctor or get hospital treatment.
You’ll also get:
free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses
Education
Your children must attend school if they are aged 5 to 17. All state schools are free and your children may be able to get free school meals.
No wonder they want to come here all those free entitlements truth is we are paying for them Ah right - so we've gone from a thread about 'EU citizens in the UK' to 'Government support for Asylum seekers' in the blink of an eye. 'Scream if you want to go faster...' Your right. EU citizens had a right to come here during EU membership, and a right to stay as part of the Brexit agreement. Asylum seekers is a different matter, but nevertheless as one of the richest countries in the world, we can afford to offer them a safe haven where they can restart their lives in the UK. Most will go on to make a significant positive contribution to our society. Much better that than paying taxes to the EU to hand out billions via CAP to the richest farmers, food processing companies, etc. who are ruining nature. This country has been a safe haven for centuries for the oppressed escaping persecution. I also expect a lot of those who have chosen to live in the EU will be making their way back to the UK. |
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Post by crapslinger on May 14, 2021 15:42:46 GMT
Ah right - so we've gone from a thread about 'EU citizens in the UK' to 'Government support for Asylum seekers' in the blink of an eye. 'Scream if you want to go faster...' Your right. EU citizens had a right to come here during EU membership, and a right to stay as part of the Brexit agreement. Asylum seekers is a different matter, but nevertheless as one of the richest countries in the world, we can afford to offer them a safe haven where they can restart their lives in the UK. Most will go on to make a significant positive contribution to our society. Much better that than paying taxes to the EU to hand out billions via CAP to the richest farmers, food processing companies, etc. who are ruining nature. This country has been a safe haven for centuries for the oppressed escaping persecution. I also expect a lot of those who have chosen to live in the EU will be making their way back to the UK. Are illegal immigrants classed as asylum seekers such as those entering in dinghies daily ? |
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Post by questionable on May 14, 2021 17:26:28 GMT
My sons fiancé lives in the UK, she’s Norwegian. Am I right in saying there’s some special arrangement with the UK and Norway ??
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 15, 2021 6:52:28 GMT
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Post by crapslinger on May 15, 2021 9:18:13 GMT
What are they fleeing from in the Ivory Coast ? |
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Post by mrcoke on May 15, 2021 9:33:25 GMT
Your right. EU citizens had a right to come here during EU membership, and a right to stay as part of the Brexit agreement. Asylum seekers is a different matter, but nevertheless as one of the richest countries in the world, we can afford to offer them a safe haven where they can restart their lives in the UK. Most will go on to make a significant positive contribution to our society. Much better that than paying taxes to the EU to hand out billions via CAP to the richest farmers, food processing companies, etc. who are ruining nature. This country has been a safe haven for centuries for the oppressed escaping persecution. I also expect a lot of those who have chosen to live in the EU will be making their way back to the UK. Are illegal immigrants classed as asylum seekers such as those entering in dinghies daily ? I struggle with that issue. Personally I have huge respect for those that have "taken their life in their hands" to escape from oppression. Sacrificed everything to do so. I doubt whether any have done all that to simply sponge on the UK welfare system. Having done what they have done, my heart says let them stay, but I realise that just encourages more to risk their lives. It's the racketeers that should be firmly dealt with but there seems little action on the other side of the Channel by the authorities to curtail their activities. In fact there are reports of French authorities assisting refugees across, but that is probably just malicious talk by horrible Brexiteers. We should remember that there was a time things were the opposite way round. At the start of the 17th century the Pilgrim Fathers left England to escape religious persecution and went to America to become one of the earliest permanent settlements, not forgetting the native population of course. |
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Post by crapslinger on May 15, 2021 9:41:08 GMT
Are illegal immigrants classed as asylum seekers such as those entering in dinghies daily ? I struggle with that issue. Personally I have huge respect for those that have "taken their life in their hands" to escape from oppression. Sacrificed everything to do so. I doubt whether any have done all that to simply sponge on the UK welfare system. Having done what they have done, my heart says let them stay, but I realise that just encourages more to risk their lives. It's the racketeers that should be firmly dealt with but there seems little action on the other side of the Channel by the authorities to curtail their activities. In fact there are reports of French authorities assisting refugees across, but that is probably just malicious talk by horrible Brexiteers. We should remember that there was a time things were the opposite way round. At the start of the 17th century the Pilgrim Fathers left England to escape religious persecution and went to America to become one of the earliest permanent settlements, not forgetting the native population of course. If they are indeed fleeing from oppression which many of them are not from oppressed countries why have they crossed so many safe countries to risk their lives unnecessarily to come to the UK ? I have posted from a government website above the "benefits" of coming here pretty sure that has a lot to do with it I would wager if we stopped all the free accommodation, money, healthcare etc. this would pretty much stop this problem, how come they all lose their passports and paperwork but manage to keep hold of their mobile phones  |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 15, 2021 12:30:20 GMT
What are they fleeing from in the Ivory Coast ? I've no idea, perhaps something as simple as the idea of a better life in Europe? Anyone who takes to a boat like that with limited supplies of water, food and fuel must be pretty desperate. |
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Post by crapslinger on May 15, 2021 12:33:03 GMT
What are they fleeing from in the Ivory Coast ? I've no idea, perhaps something as simple as the idea of a better life in Europe? Anyone who takes to a boat like that with limited supplies of water, food and fuel must be pretty desperate. So not oppression, fear for their lives, just economic migrants then. |
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Post by salopstick on May 15, 2021 12:34:02 GMT
The issue has always been successive governments of all colours not improving infrastructure to cope with mass immigration
This leads to the complaints of many against immigrants and overshadows the good
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 15, 2021 12:39:40 GMT
I've no idea, perhaps something as simple as the idea of a better life in Europe? Anyone who takes to a boat like that with limited supplies of water, food and fuel must be pretty desperate. So not oppression, fear for their lives, just economic migrants then. Could be. Doesn't alter the fact that they must be pretty desperate and some compassion towards them wouldn't go amiss. |
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Post by crapslinger on May 15, 2021 13:05:21 GMT
So not oppression, fear for their lives, just economic migrants then. Could be. Doesn't alter the fact that they must be pretty desperate and some compassion towards them wouldn't go amiss. Are, if you are prepared to put your life and your families life in danger for money well simply that's your decision. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 15, 2021 13:55:40 GMT
Could be. Doesn't alter the fact that they must be pretty desperate and some compassion towards them wouldn't go amiss. Are, if you are prepared to put your life and your families life in danger for money well simply that's your decision. And presumably one that no-one takes lightly, hence the assumption that some compassion would be normal towards someone who's done so and ended up spending three weeks in a boat with the dead and dying, but each to their own, obviously. |
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