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Post by wagsastokie on May 26, 2021 14:31:38 GMT
It’s not your mention of anti semitism that bothered me it was the casual dropping in of the accusation of casual racism against a poster Yet you haven’t replied to that side of my post at all I guess I have to draw the dots, I mention actual antisemitism in the uk your new mate drops a meme that allegations of anti semitism are used to close down criticism of Israel so yeah thats casual racism to me. To everyone else what he posted was basically the truth straight from a ex Israeli government minister No one except yourself believes there was a ounce of casual racism at all And you use the easy catch all far to often You seem it have developed a fascination for joining dots May I suggest you peruse a quality newsagent where you may find a book where the dots go somewhere As for new found mates I have no mates on this board and will continue to point out what I consider wrong or puerile From wherever or from whoever
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Israel
May 26, 2021 14:37:47 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on May 26, 2021 14:37:47 GMT
I guess I have to draw the dots, I mention actual antisemitism in the uk your new mate drops a meme that allegations of anti semitism are used to close down criticism of Israel so yeah thats casual racism to me. To everyone else what he posted was basically the truth straight from a ex Israeli government minister No one except yourself believes there was a ounce of casual racism at all And you use the easy catch all far to often You seem it have developed a fascination for joining dots May I suggest you peruse a quality newsagent where you may find a book where the dots go somewhere As for new found mates I have no mates on this board and will continue to point out what I consider wrong or puerile From wherever or from whoever You don't see racism when you have british jewish people saying its antisemitic being told you have to expect attacks to rise on them when israel does something in gaza, and mr meme posts in response to that, that false allegations of anti semitism are used to shut down debate, ok as you were.
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Israel
May 26, 2021 14:57:19 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on May 26, 2021 14:57:19 GMT
To everyone else what he posted was basically the truth straight from a ex Israeli government minister No one except yourself believes there was a ounce of casual racism at all And you use the easy catch all far to often You seem it have developed a fascination for joining dots May I suggest you peruse a quality newsagent where you may find a book where the dots go somewhere As for new found mates I have no mates on this board and will continue to point out what I consider wrong or puerile From wherever or from whoever You don't see racism when you have british jewish people saying its antisemitic being told you have to expect attacks to rise on them when israel does something in gaza, and mr meme posts in response to that, that false allegations of anti semitism are used to shut down debate, ok as you were. I have looked at this thread again and the meme containing the ex Israeli government ministers quote Was in direct response to nothing So how is this exhibiting this alleged casual racism Anyway down to hard facts do you believe the ex Israeli government minister or not
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Israel
May 26, 2021 15:44:35 GMT
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Post by vokeswagen on May 26, 2021 15:44:35 GMT
You don't see racism when you have british jewish people saying its antisemitic being told you have to expect attacks to rise on them when israel does something in gaza, and mr meme posts in response to that, that false allegations of anti semitism are used to shut down debate, ok as you were. I have looked at this thread again and the meme containing the ex Israeli government ministers quote Was in direct response to nothing So how is this exhibiting this alleged casual racism Anyway down to hard facts do you believe the ex Israeli government minister or not I wouldn’t bother mate. Standard online debating - he’s made a fool of himself, now his only escape from that corner is to invent a load of stuff that never happened. Then you waste your time denying that, rather than pressing what was actually said. I had it this morning
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Israel
May 26, 2021 17:53:15 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on May 26, 2021 17:53:15 GMT
You don't see racism when you have british jewish people saying its antisemitic being told you have to expect attacks to rise on them when israel does something in gaza, and mr meme posts in response to that, that false allegations of anti semitism are used to shut down debate, ok as you were. I have looked at this thread again and the meme containing the ex Israeli government ministers quote Was in direct response to nothing So how is this exhibiting this alleged casual racism Anyway down to hard facts do you believe the ex Israeli government minister or not Its two posts after my mention of antisemitism that huddy suddenly thinks randomly to post that meme ok you bieve that if you wish. Thats not hard facts its a meme quote, she may believe that perhaps you can point out some examples then, personally I think ultimately Israel does not give a jot for public opinion outside of Israel and its only concern is the safety and security of its own people and will do whatever it thinks needs doing to ensure that, thats way the claims of Corbyn being seen as a threat to them are laughable, people they view as real threats to them tend to not have a very healthy life expectency.
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Israel
May 26, 2021 18:15:28 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on May 26, 2021 18:15:28 GMT
I have looked at this thread again and the meme containing the ex Israeli government ministers quote Was in direct response to nothing So how is this exhibiting this alleged casual racism Anyway down to hard facts do you believe the ex Israeli government minister or not Its two posts after my mention of antisemitism that huddy suddenly thinks randomly to post that meme ok you bieve that if you wish. Thats not hard facts its a meme quote, she may believe that perhaps you can point out some examples then, personally I think ultimately Israel does not give a jot for public opinion outside of Israel and its only concern is the safety and security of its own people and will do whatever it thinks needs doing to ensure that, thats way the claims of Corbyn being seen as a threat to them are laughable, people they view as real threats to them tend to not have a very healthy life expectency. Well at least we’ll agree on something the Israeli government aren’t the nicest bunch of democrats in the world
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Israel
May 26, 2021 19:37:53 GMT
Post by prestwichpotter on May 26, 2021 19:37:53 GMT
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Israel
May 26, 2021 20:21:12 GMT
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Post by vokeswagen on May 26, 2021 20:21:12 GMT
Hold on, does this mean the whole of Ireland is now anti Semitic? Or would it be celtophobic of me to suggest that?! Sorry, it gets quite confusing when criticising the behaviour of a nation state is racist
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Israel
May 28, 2021 5:40:18 GMT
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Post by ColonelMustard on May 28, 2021 5:40:18 GMT
A couple of times on this thread I've mentioned acknowledgment of the Nakba as central to the way forward.
Well Gabor Maté says it much better than a random chap from Stoke. Whatever you think of Brand, watch this. After the first minute, it's all Maté.
Gabor Maté is an incredible dude all round.
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Israel
May 28, 2021 13:25:38 GMT
Post by prestwichpotter on May 28, 2021 13:25:38 GMT
A couple of times on this thread I've mentioned acknowledgment of the Nakba as central to the way forward. Well Gabor Maté says it much better than a random chap from Stoke. Whatever you think of Brand, watch this. After the first minute, it's all Maté. Gabor Maté is an incredible dude all round. He's a great man, the end sums it up perfectly "I'm not pro-Palestinian, I'm pro-truth" He wrote this back in 2014 and it's as on point as ever....... As a Jewish youngster growing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the Nazi genocide, I was for years haunted by a question resounding in my brain with such force that sometimes my head would spin: “How was it possible? How could the world have let such horrors happen?” It was a naïve question, that of a child. I know better now: such is reality. Whether in Vietnam or Rwanda or Syria, humanity stands by either complicitly or unconsciously or helplessly, as it always does. In Gaza today we find ways of justifying the bombing of hospitals, the annihilation of families at dinner, the killing of pre-adolescents playing soccer on a beach. In Israel-Palestine the powerful party has succeeded in painting itself as the victim, while the ones being killed and maimed become the perpetrators. “They don’t care about life,” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says, abetted by the Obamas and Harpers of this world, “we do.” Netanyahu, you who with surgical precision slaughter innocents, the young and the old, you who have cruelly blockaded Gaza for years, starving it of necessities, you who deprive Palestinians of more and more of their land, their water, their crops, their trees — you care about life? There is no understanding Gaza out of context — Hamas rockets or unjustifiable terrorist attacks on civilians — and that context is the longest ongoing ethnic cleansing operation in the recent and present centuries, the ongoing attempt to destroy Palestinian nationhood. The Palestinians use tunnels? So did my heroes, the poorly armed fighters of the Warsaw Ghetto. Unlike Israel, Palestinians lack Apache helicopters, guided drones, jet fighters with bombs, laser-guided artillery. Out of impotent defiance, they fire inept rockets, causing terror for innocent Israelis but rarely physical harm. With such a gross imbalance of power, there is no equivalence of culpability. Israel wants peace? Perhaps, but as the veteran Israeli journalist Gideon Levy has pointed out, it does not want a just peace. Occupation and creeping annexation, an inhumane blockade, the destruction of olive groves, the arbitrary imprisonment of thousands, torture, daily humiliation of civilians, house demolitions: these are not policies compatible with any desire for a just peace. In Tel Aviv Gideon Levy now moves around with a bodyguard, the price of speaking the truth. I have visited Gaza and the West Bank. I saw multi-generational Palestinian families weeping in hospitals around the bedsides of their wounded, at the graves of their dead. These are not people who do not care about life. They are like us — Canadians, Jews, like anyone: they celebrate life, family, work, education, food, peace, joy. And they are capable of hatred, they can harbour vengeance in the hearts, just like we can. One could debate details, historical and current, back and forth. Since my days as a young Zionist and, later, as a member of Jews for a Just Peace, I have often done so. I used to believe that if people knew the facts, they would open to the truth. That, too, was naïve. This issue is far too charged with emotion. As the spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle has pointed out, the accumulated mutual pain in the Middle East is so acute, “a significant part of the population finds itself forced to act it out in an endless cycle of perpetration and retribution.” “People’s leaders have been misleaders, so they that are led have been confused,” in the words of the prophet Jeremiah. The voices of justice and sanity are not heeded. Netanyahu has his reasons. Harper and Obama have theirs. And what shall we do, we ordinary people? I pray we can listen to our hearts. My heart tells me that “never again” is not a tribal slogan, that the murder of my grandparents in Auschwitz does not justify the ongoing dispossession of Palestinians, that justice, truth, peace are not tribal prerogatives. That Israel’s “right to defend itself,” unarguable in principle, does not validate mass killing. A few days ago I met with one of my dearest friends, a comrade from Zionist days and now professor emeritus at an Israeli university. We spoke of everything but the daily savagery depicted on our TV screens. We both feared the rancour that would arise. But, I want to say to my friend, can we not be sad together at what that beautiful old dream of Jewish redemption has come to? Can we not grieve the death of innocents? I am sad these days. Can we not at least mourn together?
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 28, 2021 14:28:13 GMT
To everyone else what he posted was basically the truth straight from a ex Israeli government minister No one except yourself believes there was a ounce of casual racism at all And you use the easy catch all far to often You seem it have developed a fascination for joining dots May I suggest you peruse a quality newsagent where you may find a book where the dots go somewhere As for new found mates I have no mates on this board and will continue to point out what I consider wrong or puerile From wherever or from whoever You don't see racism when you have british jewish people saying its antisemitic being told you have to expect attacks to rise on them when israel does something in gaza, and mr meme posts in response to that, that false allegations of anti semitism are used to shut down debate, ok as you were. Afternoon fella, I see you've been on line today any thoughts on Johnson's meeting with that well known antisemite and all round bigot Viktor Orban today. I know tackling antisemitism is a real passion of yours so I'm guessing you must be outraged?
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Israel
May 31, 2021 18:20:41 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 31, 2021 18:20:41 GMT
We have the right to protest. Where do we draw the line though? If this was a far right Nazi group , chanting similar things , would the Police simply escort them....or would their duty be to stop them, arrest them ...perhaps for inciting violence, racist threats? As much as the Arab/ Israeli issue is important ( and I think it is immensely important) and as much as "we" , the UK/ the West are involved and take responsibility for sine of the situation, For me there does seem to be a complete disconnect between what the protesters are protesting about and the concerns of the ordinary man in the street. Perhaps the man in the street should be concerned....but equally in today's unhappy discontented world he/ she might ask " What's bit got to do with me/ what about all the other problems/ those nearer to home that perhaps I can do something about" But m msin point is....should we allow ANYONE, Far right/ Muslims / individuals to go about our streets threatening Jews?...I've no doubt that if this group had come across a number of Jews , they would have tried to kill the. 1930s Germany? www.facebook.com/watch/?v=959371977938600 th
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Post by thevoid on May 31, 2021 18:45:01 GMT
We have the right to protest. Where do we draw the line though? If this was a far right Nazi group , chanting similar things , would the Police simply escort them....or would their duty be to stop them, arrest them ...perhaps for inciting violence, racist threats? As much as the Arab/ Israeli issue is important ( and I think it is immensely important) and as much as "we" , the UK/ the West are involved and take responsibility for sine of the situation, For me there does seem to be a complete disconnect between what the protesters are protesting about and the concerns of the ordinary man in the street. Perhaps the man in the street should be concerned....but equally in today's unhappy discontented world he/ she might ask " What's bit got to do with me/ what about all the other problems/ those nearer to home that perhaps I can do something about" But m msin point is....should we allow ANYONE, Far right/ Muslims / individuals to go about our streets threatening Jews?...I've no doubt that if this group had come across a number of Jews , they would have tried to kill the. 1930s Germany? www.facebook.com/watch/?v=959371977938600 th That's fucking disgusting. Imagine if it was skinheads coming out with filth like that, there'd be arrests on the spot. How does blaming a British Jew over Palestine differ from blaming British Muslims over ISIS? No doubt some wags on here will get more offended over Darren Grimes than the content of that footage.
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Israel
Jun 9, 2021 12:58:50 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 9, 2021 12:58:50 GMT
We have the right to protest. Where do we draw the line though? If this was a far right Nazi group , chanting similar things , would the Police simply escort them....or would their duty be to stop them, arrest them ...perhaps for inciting violence, racist threats? As much as the Arab/ Israeli issue is important ( and I think it is immensely important) and as much as "we" , the UK/ the West are involved and take responsibility for sine of the situation, For me there does seem to be a complete disconnect between what the protesters are protesting about and the concerns of the ordinary man in the street. Perhaps the man in the street should be concerned....but equally in today's unhappy discontented world he/ she might ask " What's bit got to do with me/ what about all the other problems/ those nearer to home that perhaps I can do something about" But m msin point is....should we allow ANYONE, Far right/ Muslims / individuals to go about our streets threatening Jews?...I've no doubt that if this group had come across a number of Jews , they would have tried to kill the. 1930s Germany? www.facebook.com/watch/?v=959371977938600 th That's fucking disgusting. Imagine if it was skinheads coming out with filth like that, there'd be arrests on the spot. How does blaming a British Jew over Palestine differ from blaming British Muslims over ISIS? No doubt some wags on here will get more offended over Darren Grimes than the content of that footage. All those anti racists missing racism again....
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Israel
Jun 9, 2021 13:08:21 GMT
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Post by themistocles on Jun 9, 2021 13:08:21 GMT
That's fucking disgusting. Imagine if it was skinheads coming out with filth like that, there'd be arrests on the spot. How does blaming a British Jew over Palestine differ from blaming British Muslims over ISIS? No doubt some wags on here will get more offended over Darren Grimes than the content of that footage. All those anti racists missing racism again.... Imagine my shock the ardent anti-racist Momo is unequivocally silent when it comes to racism against Jews and whites. It's just so predicable..
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Israel
Jun 9, 2021 13:38:31 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 9, 2021 13:38:31 GMT
All those anti racists missing racism again.... Imagine my shock the ardent anti-racist Momo is unequivocally silent when it comes to racism against Jews and whites. It's just so predicable.. Momo is banned so thats somewhat unfair but I am sure huddy and all will be along to condemn.
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Israel
Jun 9, 2021 13:48:18 GMT
Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 9, 2021 13:48:18 GMT
Imagine my shock the ardent anti-racist Momo is unequivocally silent when it comes to racism against Jews and whites. It's just so predicable.. Momo is banned so thats somewhat unfair but I am sure huddy and all will be along to condemn. That guy is clearly conflating news about the state of Israel and Jews who work for the BBC, which is just wrong on every level. It's not difficult to call these things out as and when they occur......
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Israel
Jun 9, 2021 15:40:19 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 9, 2021 15:40:19 GMT
Momo is banned so thats somewhat unfair but I am sure huddy and all will be along to condemn. That guy is clearly conflating news about the state of Israel and Jews who work for the BBC, which is just wrong on every level. It's not difficult to call these things out as and when they occur...... Yet there are thousands of people there who dont even raise a murmour and by the way its not even true about jews controlling the bbc / media. This was in manchester not one you went too ?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 28, 2023 15:45:33 GMT
The recent Huwara Rampage has barely registered in the MSM despite it being the worst violence from illegal Israeli occupiers towards ordinary Palestinians in the West Bank in decades.
It's interesting looking at back at this thread, if people had a tenth of the empathy for ordinary Palestinians as they did Ukranians for example this despicable Israeli government might finally have some pressure put on them regarding their conduct. But I'm sure the Conservative and Labour Friends of Israel with their pals at the British Board of Deputies might think otherwise so I won't hold my breath just yet......
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Feb 28, 2023 16:58:44 GMT
The recent Huwara Rampage has barely registered in the MSM despite it being the worst violence from illegal Israeli occupiers towards ordinary Palestinians in the West Bank in decades. It's interesting looking at back at this thread, if people had a tenth of the empathy for ordinary Palestinians as they did Ukranians for example this despicable Israeli government might finally have some pressure put on them regarding their conduct. But I'm sure the Conservative and Labour Friends of Israel with their pals at the British Board of Deputies might think otherwise so I won't hold my breath just yet...... The Palestinians don’t have oil or other natural resources, it’s a bit sickening the regard for human life seems to have a tiered system based on the colour of your skin or where you are from
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Israel
Mar 5, 2023 12:15:08 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 5, 2023 12:15:08 GMT
The damage has been done of course in terms of a 2017 Labour government as the reality is the Israel issue is intertwined with politics/society due to the UK’s relationship with them (it shouldn’t be that way of course). But it is interesting how the tide seems to be turning in terms of exposing Israel for the kind of regime it has (and to be blunt has been for years).
Of course asking Jews to condemn a nation state doesn’t sit comfortably with me in the same way I wouldn’t ask a British Muslim to condemn the actions of a Saudi Arabia. That said there are many prominent Jews in politics and those celebrities with a large social media following that have actively defended - even championed - Israel and to those I would say “Let’s hear you you fucking hypocrites”………
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Post by wannabee on Mar 5, 2023 15:33:48 GMT
The damage has been done of course in terms of a 2017 Labour government as the reality is the Israel issue is intertwined with politics/society due to the UK’s relationship with them (it shouldn’t be that way of course). But it is interesting how the tide seems to be turning in terms of exposing Israel for the kind of regime it has (and to be blunt has been for years). Of course asking Jews to condemn a nation state doesn’t sit comfortably with me in the same way I wouldn’t ask a British Muslim to condemn the actions of a Saudi Arabia. That said there are many prominent Jews in politics and those celebrities with a large social media following that have actively defended - even championed - Israel and to those I would say “Let’s hear you you fucking hypocrites”……… It is a squeamishness to honestly confront what is or isn't antisemitism because of historical events, its easier to shout "Fire" and close down debate It is the conflation of Israeli and Jewishness I see no conflict in a British Muslim condemning the actions of Saudi Arabia per se Citizens of Israel are Israeli but identity cards subdivide "Nationality" into Jewish, Arab or Druze This is at the heart of the Apartheid being practised by Israel making 20% of the population 2nd class citizens It is taken directly from the Zionists playback that there should be an Israeli State exclusively of Jewish People Not all Jews are Zionists (and many inside and outside Israel condemn the Apartheid practices) Israeli Jews themselves are not homogeneous but are split between Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) Dati (Religious) Masorti (traditional) and Hiloni (secular) Pretty much all Heredi Jews ( about 30% of the population) are Zionists and it is their extreme thinking and influence which is pushing the Israeli Government further and further to the right. This of course is not the first time Britain was embroiled in the creation of a new State with disastrous results when it gave up the Palestine Mandate to create the State of Israel. In part this was to keep a promise to the Jewish Brigades who had fought against the Ottoman Empire in WW1. The Northern Ireland Statelet was created as a reward for the Ulster Regiments under Carson fighting against the Germans also in WW1. That Statelet was carved out of territory designed to ensure a permanent Protestant Majority (they got that wrong) which then used its own Apartheid Practices for the next 50 years until effectively Civil War broke out. Skipping forward 30 years of Bombing and Murdering in NI which brought both sides to exhaustion the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement recognised the right of all Citizens equally and they could identify as British, Irish, Northern Irish a combination or none of the above. Someone then thought up Brexit which disturbed the equilibrium and illusion. The Loyalist Tradition with allegiance to Britain were then shocked when Elections placed then second to Sinn Fein loyal to a United Ireland. Ironically US played a pivotal role in GFA. In part the Israeli State operates under the protection of US. Until the US tells Israel to sort its shit out the situation is going to deteriorate further
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