This season is coming to a very mundane end and for most it’s been a very disappointing experience with being unable to watch games live has probably been a good thing considering how lacklustre we have been since last November. There is a general malaise hanging over the club which doesn’t show any sign of being removed.
Though we shouldn’t forget it had some highs reaching the quarter final of the league cup should not be dismissed in the swell of mediocrity we have witnessed even if only from the screen. We have also seen a number of home produced players making an impact with the prospect of more to come at last. That cup run helped some of them to develop which has been a really positive aspect to this season.
The football has been very dull for many months now I like possession football but it has to have momentum and purpose but sadly most of our play lacks either, the lack of real pace and energy our wide players show little instinct to attack their full backs which frustrates me immensely. I am not sure if it’s lack of intent on behalf of the players or manager or whether it’s fear of failing. In stark contrast the U-23’S have played some great football this year maybe the first team should be told to watch them play and asked questions as to why they can’t produce football anywhere near as good. The emergence of some talented young players who can play good football all be it at U-23 level; foes give some hope.
MON has lost some of his shine over the last 6 months but we are making very average progress but without some serious changes throughout the club we are not heading back to the Premier League any time soon. It is a sad fact of life that the club slipped into a coma and are finding it very hard to revive the slumbering patient. The position isn’t as bad as in some times before but without the financial ability to bring quality into the squad so it’s down to recruitment and the lack of faith in those finding our Many supporters are unsettled and want to see changes and MON is one of the changes they think will help improve matters, my problem as I have said the same people will be overseeing the proves if a new manager was required. The lack of forward thinking would swing into action and a very uninspiring list of British managers would be pawed over before we appointed a dull, solid manager with little changing either on or off the field.
We still have a little Premiership shine left on us but it’s disappearing fast and soon if nothing changes we will be just another former Premier League side in the Championship just one among many and like Nottingham Forest, Derby, Birmingham and more very few outside of the supporters will care we even exist. We as supporters think we’re just a good run away from being relevant once more but the harsh facts of football is it’s played in the now and what you did a few seasons ago counts for very little outside of history books or YouTube memories or happy conversations among supporters,
Supporters can dwell in the past because for most clubs the now doesn’t appeal much but owners can’t they need to be forward thinking always looking for that edge on and off the field. Sadly whether people like it or not the more successful clubs don’t rely on old fashioned British thinking yes there are a few but they are more exceptions than rules. What worked well in 2008 no longer cuts the mustard at the level we aspire to be once more. the managers who were moderately successful a while ago are no shown for the dinosaur thinkers they are, yes they may get you to a stable safety blanket but lack the extra dimension needed to push that extra mile to gain what supporters and owners all want.
We can keep blaming the managers or we can be honest with ourselves and realize the product rots from the head down. Those in control behind the scenes need to be honest about what’s gone so wrong. Rowett and Jones have done reasonably well since they left us admittedly without the pressures of demanding supporters and owners because they had just spent a decade as a stable Premier League club. Peter Coates redeemed his reputation but it’s sinking again and although money is not the issue this time it’s old fashioned thinking which has resulted in the same stagnation beginning to settle over the club. The club still thinks like a one dimensional English club in a modern world of forward looking owners and clubs. When the thinking is insular the results tend to follow on and off the field they become sterile and show the same lack of imagination.
It seems recruitment has gone backwards once more and I am sure some of the very recruits who are still costing the club money without giving anything back has resulted in a safety first policy but in reality the problem with our recruitment was it ignored many red flags which certain players should have thrown up. I will use Berahino as a perfect example, we should have avoided him likle the plague unlike the Marko’s of this world he had one good season completely lost the plot and spun out of control both on and off the field, surely the fact most Premier League clubs held their nose should have been enough to say he’s bad news but we ploughed on regardless. Surely in today’s fast paced media world finding out about a players character should be easy enough.
The players who think they are far better than they really are some of whom actually still play for the club others who are bleeding the club from far-away places where in general they have been as average as they were for us. Some because they simply have no interest in actually playing for their living some just because they used the club thinking they would just move on somewhere else for more money. Then having helped the club into the mire of the Championship they decide they are too good for the league and want absolutely nothing to do with playing for the club they are being well paid to represent. So we have many long contracts and many players we can’t shift out of the club because very few clubs with ambition are prepared to sign them on similar contracts so would you give a damn if you are on a long lucrative contract and very little to make you want to force a move. Yet there have been little or no consequences for those who rubber stamped those deals. Whether we like it or not some of them are likely to be stinking the place out for a little longer yet which reminds supporters of just how terrible the recruiting and contracts have been and who perpetrated those deals.
The club is far from doomed to disaster but the lack of ability to bring quality into the club due to FFP rules suggest any hopes of mounting a serious challenge is limited unless those at the club change their thinking. If MON is still here next season and I am pretty sure he will be he needs to find pace and energy because we lack it in spades. He needs to find hunger in any recruits because we lack drive in so many areas and when ambition and imagination seem to lacking from the top down players tend to follow suit.
MON has a positive attitude but the football has lacked that same positivity on the field I honestly believe he needs a good summer in whatever recruiting and blending young talent into an effective squad for next season if not I am sure the revolving door will open and once more we will be looking for the new Messiah but sadly it might not be a young hungry foreign coach but another staid dull safety first manager who talks a good game but rarely turns it into results on the field.
I doubt the hierarchy within the club have the vision to do so, but they need to get an objective and independent view of why the club is in such a mess. There will be common denominators in the clubs continued regression which needs to see people in key positions moved on and I’m not necessarily talking about the manager.The problem is that these people will never see this as they are surrounded by yes people who can’t or won’t see the problems.
Some serious home truths need to be told at the top and until this is addressed we will not move forward.
Very good post Ted i just hope & wish that somebody within the club gets to read your posts as your always spot on. I very much doubt it though as feel the club are very distant from what the supporters feel or think about our downward spiral.
I'd be happy with mediocrity right now. We're absolute shite and would have been struggling against relegation again if it wasn't for a strong start to the season (where the results were a lot better than the performances).
I'd be happy with mediocrity right now. We're absolute shite and would have been struggling against relegation again if it wasn't for a strong start to the season (where the results were a lot better than the performances).
Absofuckinglutely. 35 of our 57 points were won in the first half of the season supporting the argument that injuries to key players since Christmas have cost us. . In addition our home form is almost as bad as the relegation season. We have lost 9 games at home this season.
Post by goldcoaststokie on May 2, 2021 11:47:23 GMT
I think it’s complacency. The owners are all comfy with their money from Bet365. It just seems like a hobby to them now. They just seem to accept poor performance time and time again from everyone until it’s too late. Then there’s a mess to fix.
I doubt the hierarchy within the club have the vision to do so, but they need to get an objective and independent view of why the club is in such a mess. There will be common denominators in the clubs continued regression which needs to see people in key positions moved on and I’m not necessarily talking about the manager.The problem is that these people will never see this as they are surrounded by yes people who can’t or won’t see the problems.
Some serious home truths need to be told at the top and until this is addressed we will not move forward.
Absolutely true; the problem with Stoke is Peter and John Coates, plus Tony Scholes. I do not see how they will ever be able to look at the problem objectively and criticise their own performance. The fans can see the problem and likely outcome, and the Board are blind to their own shortcomings and what to do about it.
What do we do? People show Watford as an example of changing managers and it's worked for them which is true but Norwich stuck with the same manager and that's worked for them.
What do we do? People show Watford as an example of changing managers and it's worked for them which is true but Norwich stuck with the same manager and that's worked for them.
Post by TrentValePotter96 on May 2, 2021 13:07:11 GMT
Our issues go far beyond the playing squad or manager, whatever you think of them.
The club is not particularly well run. It has rich owners, yes, they are fans, yes and they'll keep tickets cheap, but there is no real strategic vision there. No idea. They just want 'Stoke to be back in the Premier League' and don't know how to connect the dots.
Keep changing managers won't do it. Even if Wilder is a better manager than MON, it is perfectly reasonable to expect a guy who won 3 in 30 or something to not succeed here. The club's issues can't be overrided by a manager.
Are Tony and John the men to lead us back? I'd say no.
What do we do? People show Watford as an example of changing managers and it's worked for them which is true but Norwich stuck with the same manager and that's worked for them.
I haven't got a clue what the answer is.
Watford are just a poor mans Chelsea. People use them as an example because even though it’s not been disastrous for them it’s not won them a lot other than short term promotion. Chelsea on the other hand have changed managers almost as often but have won trophies and leagues whilst doing so, so it doesn’t fit the argument that regular changes of manager are somehow a failure. Managers successful or not will generally have a shelf life unfortunately we keep looking for some god like figure who will become the next SAF, Clough etc etc etc. They were one in a million, you’re extremely unlikely to unearth one so are setting yourself up to fail.
Our issues go far beyond the playing squad or manager, whatever you think of them.
The club is not particularly well run. It has rich owners, yes, they are fans, yes and they'll keep tickets cheap, but there is no real strategic vision there. No idea. They just want 'Stoke to be back in the Premier League' and don't know how to connect the dots.
Keep changing managers won't do it. Even if Wilder is a better manager than MON, it is perfectly reasonable to expect a guy who won 3 in 30 or something to not succeed here. The club's issues can't be overrided by a manager.
Are Tony and John the men to lead us back? I'd say no.
Post by Old School Stokie on May 3, 2021 10:21:20 GMT
Success lies in a quality manager, proven in his trade. Moyes, Rogers, even Dyche with what he has had to work with. But we have to see how MON fairs between august and October as I agree too many changes is too unsettling and causes mini changes of players, styles and philosophy.
This season is coming to a very mundane end and for most it’s been a very disappointing experience with being unable to watch games live has probably been a good thing considering how lacklustre we have been since last November. There is a general malaise hanging over the club which doesn’t show any sign of being removed.
Though we shouldn’t forget it had some highs reaching the quarter final of the league cup should not be dismissed in the swell of mediocrity we have witnessed even if only from the screen. We have also seen a number of home produced players making an impact with the prospect of more to come at last. That cup run helped some of them to develop which has been a really positive aspect to this season.
The football has been very dull for many months now I like possession football but it has to have momentum and purpose but sadly most of our play lacks either, the lack of real pace and energy our wide players show little instinct to attack their full backs which frustrates me immensely. I am not sure if it’s lack of intent on behalf of the players or manager or whether it’s fear of failing. In stark contrast the U-23’S have played some great football this year maybe the first team should be told to watch them play and asked questions as to why they can’t produce football anywhere near as good. The emergence of some talented young players who can play good football all be it at U-23 level; foes give some hope.
MON has lost some of his shine over the last 6 months but we are making very average progress but without some serious changes throughout the club we are not heading back to the Premier League any time soon. It is a sad fact of life that the club slipped into a coma and are finding it very hard to revive the slumbering patient. The position isn’t as bad as in some times before but without the financial ability to bring quality into the squad so it’s down to recruitment and the lack of faith in those finding our Many supporters are unsettled and want to see changes and MON is one of the changes they think will help improve matters, my problem as I have said the same people will be overseeing the proves if a new manager was required. The lack of forward thinking would swing into action and a very uninspiring list of British managers would be pawed over before we appointed a dull, solid manager with little changing either on or off the field.
We still have a little Premiership shine left on us but it’s disappearing fast and soon if nothing changes we will be just another former Premier League side in the Championship just one among many and like Nottingham Forest, Derby, Birmingham and more very few outside of the supporters will care we even exist. We as supporters think we’re just a good run away from being relevant once more but the harsh facts of football is it’s played in the now and what you did a few seasons ago counts for very little outside of history books or YouTube memories or happy conversations among supporters,
Supporters can dwell in the past because for most clubs the now doesn’t appeal much but owners can’t they need to be forward thinking always looking for that edge on and off the field. Sadly whether people like it or not the more successful clubs don’t rely on old fashioned British thinking yes there are a few but they are more exceptions than rules. What worked well in 2008 no longer cuts the mustard at the level we aspire to be once more. the managers who were moderately successful a while ago are no shown for the dinosaur thinkers they are, yes they may get you to a stable safety blanket but lack the extra dimension needed to push that extra mile to gain what supporters and owners all want.
We can keep blaming the managers or we can be honest with ourselves and realize the product rots from the head down. Those in control behind the scenes need to be honest about what’s gone so wrong. Rowett and Jones have done reasonably well since they left us admittedly without the pressures of demanding supporters and owners because they had just spent a decade as a stable Premier League club. Peter Coates redeemed his reputation but it’s sinking again and although money is not the issue this time it’s old fashioned thinking which has resulted in the same stagnation beginning to settle over the club. The club still thinks like a one dimensional English club in a modern world of forward looking owners and clubs. When the thinking is insular the results tend to follow on and off the field they become sterile and show the same lack of imagination.
It seems recruitment has gone backwards once more and I am sure some of the very recruits who are still costing the club money without giving anything back has resulted in a safety first policy but in reality the problem with our recruitment was it ignored many red flags which certain players should have thrown up. I will use Berahino as a perfect example, we should have avoided him likle the plague unlike the Marko’s of this world he had one good season completely lost the plot and spun out of control both on and off the field, surely the fact most Premier League clubs held their nose should have been enough to say he’s bad news but we ploughed on regardless. Surely in today’s fast paced media world finding out about a players character should be easy enough.
The players who think they are far better than they really are some of whom actually still play for the club others who are bleeding the club from far-away places where in general they have been as average as they were for us. Some because they simply have no interest in actually playing for their living some just because they used the club thinking they would just move on somewhere else for more money. Then having helped the club into the mire of the Championship they decide they are too good for the league and want absolutely nothing to do with playing for the club they are being well paid to represent. So we have many long contracts and many players we can’t shift out of the club because very few clubs with ambition are prepared to sign them on similar contracts so would you give a damn if you are on a long lucrative contract and very little to make you want to force a move. Yet there have been little or no consequences for those who rubber stamped those deals. Whether we like it or not some of them are likely to be stinking the place out for a little longer yet which reminds supporters of just how terrible the recruiting and contracts have been and who perpetrated those deals.
The club is far from doomed to disaster but the lack of ability to bring quality into the club due to FFP rules suggest any hopes of mounting a serious challenge is limited unless those at the club change their thinking. If MON is still here next season and I am pretty sure he will be he needs to find pace and energy because we lack it in spades. He needs to find hunger in any recruits because we lack drive in so many areas and when ambition and imagination seem to lacking from the top down players tend to follow suit.
MON has a positive attitude but the football has lacked that same positivity on the field I honestly believe he needs a good summer in whatever recruiting and blending young talent into an effective squad for next season if not I am sure the revolving door will open and once more we will be looking for the new Messiah but sadly it might not be a young hungry foreign coach but another staid dull safety first manager who talks a good game but rarely turns it into results on the field.
If we're honest, Stoke has always been a mediocre club, our history tells you that. But supporters always live in hope.
Stoke were not mediocre under Tony Waddington, nor in the 30s and 40s with the likes of Matthews and Franklyn. However look how the Board treated them!
If we're honest, Stoke has always been a mediocre club, our history tells you that. But supporters always live in hope.
Stoke were not mediocre under Tony Waddington, nor in the 30s and 40s with the likes of Matthews and Franklyn. However look how the Board treated them!
We weren’t mediocre under TP and look at what happened to him.
It is often said in the music industry that , The Rolling Stones ... live out in gilded staleness the true hippie fantasy of a hippie life on the budget of a banker .Or words to that effect .
But at least they enjoyed highs and lows
Despite their admirable intentions the Coates family have turned Stoke city into a club , where truly mediocre players and even less talented executives , live in gilded staleness a life of mind blowing dulness on the budget of dot com billionaires
We have turned into the rolling stones only without the glamour and showmanship .
Last Edit: May 3, 2021 12:55:00 GMT by Deleted - Back to Top
where is the incentive to renew my season card when oneil says players are not good enough there is no money and half the clubs players not wanting to be there its complete apathy and surrender and failure to act is complete self destructing
Stoke were not mediocre under Tony Waddington, nor in the 30s and 40s with the likes of Matthews and Franklyn. However look how the Board treated them!
We weren’t mediocre under TP and look at what happened to him.
That’s so untrue we were the definition of mediocre probably 90% of the games we played under him and even that might be over generous.
What do we do? People show Watford as an example of changing managers and it's worked for them which is true but Norwich stuck with the same manager and that's worked for them.
I don’t think we have been mediocre all the time most of the time but there have been periods when we have been very good and looked like we might achieve something, we should have won the league on possibly 2 occasions the FA Cup also but like most clubs who have under achieved we have many small windows for success which we have managed to slam on ourselves.
What happened over the last 5 years has been mostly self-inflicted which is really why many people are finding it hard to accept. Of course we all knew at some point we would struggle in the Premier League and probably be relegated but it was the lacklustre way in which it was managed from the top which grates on peoples nerves.
We are owned by a mega successful betting company one which has made it’s founders wealthy beyond most people’s understanding and it thrives year in year out but we are a million miles from that successfully run company right now. The reality the brains behind that success has no interest in football and her father and brother are the brains trust at the top of our branch of their portfolio. Nobody can doubt their love for this club but it seems they don’t have the ruthless business acumen of Denise. There is no way she would look at the malaise at Stoke City and not root out the failures and install people who can make decisions which would improve our situation.
It seems everyone concerned is content to just muddle on and then use the latest scapegoat or manager as the reason for all our problem. Yet the same people will then attempt to roll the dice and hope they hit a 6 and supporters are silenced by a little upswing in our form. That isn’t a clear plan for success it’s almost like the gamblers are running the football portfolio arm of the bookies. Even the worst punters pick a winner now and again it convinces them they are good at gambling and encourages them to gamble more.
I don’t think we have been mediocre all the time most of the time but there have been periods when we have been very good and looked like we might achieve something, we should have won the league on possibly 2 occasions the FA Cup also but like most clubs who have under achieved we have many small windows for success which we have managed to slam on ourselves.
What happened over the last 5 years has been mostly self-inflicted which is really why many people are finding it hard to accept. Of course we all knew at some point we would struggle in the Premier League and probably be relegated but it was the lacklustre way in which it was managed from the top which grates on peoples nerves.
We are owned by a mega successful betting company one which has made it’s founders wealthy beyond most people’s understanding and it thrives year in year out but we are a million miles from that successfully run company right now. The reality the brains behind that success has no interest in football and her father and brother are the brains trust at the top of our branch of their portfolio. Nobody can doubt their love for this club but it seems they don’t have the ruthless business acumen of Denise. There is no way she would look at the malaise at Stoke City and not root out the failures and install people who can make decisions which would improve our situation.
It seems everyone concerned is content to just muddle on and then use the latest scapegoat or manager as the reason for all our problem. Yet the same people will then attempt to roll the dice and hope they hit a 6 and supporters are silenced by a little upswing in our form. That isn’t a clear plan for success it’s almost like the gamblers are running the football portfolio arm of the bookies. Even the worst punters pick a winner now and again it convinces them they are good at gambling and encourages them to gamble more.
If Jon wasn’t his son he would be stacking shelves at Tesco , no disrespect to shelf stackers of Tesco or other supermarkets
