|
Post by prestwichpotter on May 9, 2021 16:45:48 GMT
Hoe far is "too left" just out of interest? Because many of the policies were simply those already practised in many countries across Europe particularly the Nordic ones...... That I suppose is for individuals to decide but for me unelected groups like Momentum having a say in policies is a massive turn off Labour policy is decided democratically through the National Policy Forum which has about 200 representatives. They have as much of a say as many other trade unions, MP groups, council groups etc. Which policies from the last two manifestos did you thing were "too left" for you just out of interest then? I'm not trying to be a dick I'm intrigued that's all......
|
|
|
Post by chad on May 9, 2021 17:06:38 GMT
That I suppose is for individuals to decide but for me unelected groups like Momentum having a say in policies is a massive turn off Labour policy is decided democratically through the National Policy Forum which has about 200 representatives. They have as much of a say as many other trade unions, MP groups, council groups etc. Which policies from the last two manifestos did you thing were "too left" for you just out of interest then? I'm not trying to be a dick I'm intrigued that's all...... Re Nationalisation. Increased Taxation. More Power to the Unions Another vote on the already agreed Brexit Plus I doubt half there policies were deliverable Free Broadband for everyone !!!!! They just weren’t a credible alternative Which was of course reflected in the result and it seems continues to be so I was bought up on Bentilee for 24 years, my dad worked at Shelton Bar and my mum was cleaner. I should by rights, and have been in the past, a Labour voter. They lost me in the days of Scargill /Hatton etc They won me back when Blair took them back to the centre. But I could never vote for them with Corbyn and momentum running the show. I have some hope for Starmet but he a long way to go yet PS. I never thought you were a dick. I don’t agree with a lot of your views but You come across as a more reasonable poster 😊
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on May 9, 2021 20:16:51 GMT
|
|
|
Post by The battheader chronicles on May 9, 2021 20:26:20 GMT
Stunning how angry the left or the party are toward the right considering the left haven’t won an election in *checks notes* over 70 years
|
|
|
Post by Gods on May 9, 2021 21:19:57 GMT
Stunning how angry the left or the party are toward the right considering the left haven’t won an election in *checks notes* over 70 years Labour's electoral record in the last 40 years... Lost,lost,lost,lost,Blair,Blair,Blair, lost,lost,lost,lost.
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 9, 2021 21:27:14 GMT
Stunning how angry the left or the party are toward the right considering the left haven’t won an election in *checks notes* over 70 years Which makes it equally stunning how some people can actually blame any of today's problem on the left when there hasn't been a left government in over 70 years.
|
|
|
Post by chad on May 9, 2021 21:27:32 GMT
There’s no so blind ...........
|
|
|
Post by The battheader chronicles on May 9, 2021 22:17:21 GMT
Stunning how angry the left or the party are toward the right considering the left haven’t won an election in *checks notes* over 70 years Which makes it equally stunning how some people can actually blame any of today's problem on the left when there hasn't been a left government in over 70 years. Well the problem at hand is that people seem unwilling to vote for the Labour Party. I believe a lot of that has to do with the left of the party
|
|
|
Post by The battheader chronicles on May 9, 2021 22:18:46 GMT
Stunning how angry the left or the party are toward the right considering the left haven’t won an election in *checks notes* over 70 years Labour's electoral record in the last 40 years... Lost,lost,lost,lost,Blair,Blair,Blair, lost,lost,lost,lost. Indeed, which makes it all the more baffling that the left of the party seems to detest Blair. Despite Iraq that government in my view did a lot of good.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2021 22:20:52 GMT
Which makes it equally stunning how some people can actually blame any of today's problem on the left when there hasn't been a left government in over 70 years. Well the problem at hand is that people seem unwilling to vote for the Labour Party. I believe a lot of that has to do with the left of the party Or ability to make an X
|
|
|
Post by Gods on May 9, 2021 22:38:27 GMT
Labour's electoral record in the last 40 years... Lost,lost,lost,lost,Blair,Blair,Blair, lost,lost,lost,lost. Indeed, which makes it all the more baffling that the left of the party seems to detest Blair. Despite Iraq that government in my view did a lot of good. Yes I agree, Tony Blair is, was and always will be the consummate political operator. Took on the Tories 3 times and absolutely creamed them.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on May 10, 2021 2:46:59 GMT
There’s one thing in that piece which is bang on the money... that Labour missed a massive opportunity in early 2019 to deliver a crushing blow to the Tories. If they’d have voted for Theresa May’s BRINO EU Withdrawal Bill the Tory party would have destroyed itself in the aftermath with recriminations from the ERG and others that Brexit had not been delivered. Instead they opted for the ultra short term option of embarrassing the PM which certainly worked as it did lead to her removal from office... and the advent of Johnson’s premiership. One step forward, ten steps back you might say. Worth reminding ourselves that prior to that vote the withdrawal agreement had been drawn up with Labour input included everything they wanted. The Labour man behind that was none other than Keir Starmer. It was also his decision, backed by Corbyn, to then turn their back on the deal. On such decisions and moments history is made.
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on May 10, 2021 6:06:08 GMT
There’s one thing in that piece which is bang on the money... that Labour missed a massive opportunity in early 2019 to deliver a crushing blow to the Tories. If they’d have voted for Theresa May’s BRINO EU Withdrawal Bill the Tory party would have destroyed itself in the aftermath with recriminations from the ERG and others that Brexit had not been delivered. Instead they opted for the ultra short term option of embarrassing the PM which certainly worked as it did lead to her removal from office... and the advent of Johnson’s premiership. One step forward, ten steps back you might say. Worth reminding ourselves that prior to that vote the withdrawal agreement had been drawn up with Labour input included everything they wanted. The Labour man behind that was none other than Keir Starmer. It was also his decision, backed by Corbyn, to then turn their back on the deal. On such decisions and moments history is made. That's true Partick. It's also an indictment on " party politics" and what is at the root of many of our problems in the UK in my opinion. Decisions made primarily in the interest of the party, secondary to issue at stake......
|
|
|
Post by felonious on May 10, 2021 6:22:05 GMT
"Taking what had been considered an unwinnable seat from a privileged millionaire" Crewe and Nantwich is a place that changes hands on a regular basis. As for the privileged millionaire jibe it just shows how bitter her outlook is. It certainly says more about her than it does about him. Perhaps Laura you just weren't very good at the job. Here's an article about the millionaire's family www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/mar/29/edward-timpson-childrens-minister-parents-fostered
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 10, 2021 8:09:03 GMT
Indeed, which makes it all the more baffling that the left of the party seems to detest Blair. Despite Iraq that government in my view did a lot of good. Yes I agree, Tony Blair is, was and always will be the consummate political operator. Took on the Tories 3 times and absolutely creamed them. By basically not being much of a socialist along with the rest of the front bench (as acknowledged by one M Thatcher!). And therefore not much of a 'threat' to England's natural conservatism or the right-wing press. As Mao said, "It doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice". In this case, as long as it wins elections and then uses the fruits of a capitalist society to improve the things that really matter, like the NHS, education and other fundamental public services. That's what every government should be doing in this country, but in the last four decades the only time it's happened was under the last Labour govt, until the City boys screwed everything up for everyone.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on May 10, 2021 8:31:12 GMT
Yes I agree, Tony Blair is, was and always will be the consummate political operator. Took on the Tories 3 times and absolutely creamed them. By basically not being much of a socialist along with the rest of the front bench (as acknowledged by one M Thatcher!). And therefore not much of a 'threat' to England's natural conservatism or the right-wing press. As Mao said, "It doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice". In this case, as long as it wins elections and then uses the fruits of a capitalist society to improve the things that really matter, like the NHS, education and other fundamental public services. That's what every government should be doing in this country, but in the last four decades the only time it's happened was under the last Labour govt, until the City boys screwed everything up for everyone. Mao didn't say that it was Deng Xiaoping who came after Mao had finished slaughtering anyone who didn't agree with communism.
|
|
|
Post by xchpotter on May 10, 2021 9:56:51 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 10, 2021 10:44:37 GMT
By basically not being much of a socialist along with the rest of the front bench (as acknowledged by one M Thatcher!). And therefore not much of a 'threat' to England's natural conservatism or the right-wing press. As Mao said, "It doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice". In this case, as long as it wins elections and then uses the fruits of a capitalist society to improve the things that really matter, like the NHS, education and other fundamental public services. That's what every government should be doing in this country, but in the last four decades the only time it's happened was under the last Labour govt, until the City boys screwed everything up for everyone. Mao didn't say that it was Deng Xiaoping who came after Mao had finished slaughtering anyone who didn't agree with communism. Thank you
|
|
|
Post by phileetin on May 10, 2021 13:31:10 GMT
Yes I agree, Tony Blair is, was and always will be the consummate political operator. Took on the Tories 3 times and absolutely creamed them. By basically not being much of a socialist along with the rest of the front bench (as acknowledged by one M Thatcher!). And therefore not much of a 'threat' to England's natural conservatism or the right-wing press. As Mao said, "It doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice". In this case, as long as it wins elections and then uses the fruits of a capitalist society to improve the things that really matter, like the NHS, education and other fundamental public services. That's what every government should be doing in this country, but in the last four decades the only time it's happened was under the last Labour govt, until the City boys screwed everything up for everyone. i thought Gordon Brown opened the door to privatisation with his expensive private finance initiative.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 10, 2021 14:03:46 GMT
By basically not being much of a socialist along with the rest of the front bench (as acknowledged by one M Thatcher!). And therefore not much of a 'threat' to England's natural conservatism or the right-wing press. As Mao said, "It doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice". In this case, as long as it wins elections and then uses the fruits of a capitalist society to improve the things that really matter, like the NHS, education and other fundamental public services. That's what every government should be doing in this country, but in the last four decades the only time it's happened was under the last Labour govt, until the City boys screwed everything up for everyone. i thought Gordon Brown opened the door to privatisation with his expensive private finance initiative.
No, PFI was a Conservative invention.
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on May 10, 2021 14:12:46 GMT
i thought Gordon Brown opened the door to privatisation with his expensive private finance initiative. No, PFI was a Conservative invention. It was indeed a Tory invention, but it's the subsequent pedal to the metal application by Blair's Government that has caused the problems.
|
|