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Post by heworksardtho on Apr 10, 2021 11:21:28 GMT
Dreadful record. By contrast our record at the other West Midland grounds is pretty good. I’ve been five times. Seen us win the once, and then that draw when it all kicked off in 1992. Other than that I’ve only seen us lose there. One game I remember is the first game of the 87/88 season where we lost 2-0 despite dominating the whole game. I think we conceded the first goal of the season anywhere in the UK after about 30 seconds. Let's also not forget last season where we should have been out of sight in the first half (how did Allen hit the post from three yards?) and then Blues won with a lucky deflected Jude Bellingham goal (on his home debut, of course it was) which was a goal which gave them an additional two points and effectively kept them out of the third division at the end of the season...! St Andrews is like Anfield for us, we get nothing. 1-0 Blues. You forget the game when Mark Chamberlain tore them a new arsehole that day
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 11:32:09 GMT
Then use the good younger players and actually in Norton someone who has come off the bench and done well with the one chance he's had. Norton is a strange one, came on against Cardiff al be it only a brief showing but looked lively and full of attacking intent, since then he hasn’t had a chance It's because Norton is an alibi for MON. This way he can make himself look like a progressive manager who plays plenty of youth. He can even brag about it in pressers. But he has limited intentions of playing any of the young players he's allowed a field day out on the bench. There's a myth going on this mb that MON is great at giving youth a chance, and Campbell, Collins, Bursik, and Souttar are listed as proof. In fact none of those players can claim to have been given their first chance in football by MON. The first two made their debuts here but selected by previous managers, and the last two played substantial amounts of matches for other clubs while out on loan. Moreover none of them were in his first team plans as this season started. Not Campbell, not Collins, and certainly not Souttar. Bursik wasn't even at the club at the time. If you look at the early season team sheets you'll see it. But a couple of things changed his mind. Ince once again was first choice but failed to do anything and so Campbell was played as an alternative, and he never looked back. Batth and Chester played together at first this season, but they were absolutely woeful and also struggled with fitness, as did Shawcross. MON still selected them, but then started playing Collins and Souttar in the 3rd round of the Caraboa Cup in which they were outstanding, and he was pretty much left with no other choice but to try and integrate them. Souttar played first and became undropable. Collins was still in and out of the team, and it became clear that MON would not trust two young players to play in central defence at the same time, unless played in a three with either Chester or Batth as back up. So he shafted Collins off to play at rb, where he did well, but nonetheless playing there is detriment to a talented ballplaying central defender. Bursik was never in MON's plans and he was sent away, until he was absolutely the last resort in our gk injury crisis. He was exceptional (after a bad start). Yet he's once again sent away, showing that MON has no intention of playing him - unless injuries strike again.
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Post by lordb on Apr 10, 2021 11:46:42 GMT
Norton is a strange one, came on against Cardiff al be it only a brief showing but looked lively and full of attacking intent, since then he hasn’t had a chance It's because Norton is an alibi for MON. This way he can make himself look like a progressive manager who plays plenty of youth. He can even brag about it in pressers. But he has limited intentions of playing any of the young players he's allowed a field day out on the bench. There's a myth going on this mb that MON is great at giving youth a chance, and Campbell, Collins, Bursik, and Souttar are listed as proof. In fact none of those players can claim to have been given their first chance in football by MON. The first two made their debuts here but selected by previous managers, and the last two played substantial amounts of matches for other clubs while out on loan. Moreover none of them were in his first team plans as this season started. Not Campbell, not Collins, and certainly not Souttar. Bursik wasn't even at the club at the time. If you look at the early season team sheets you'll see it. But a couple of things changed his mind. Ince once again was first choice but failed to do anything and so Campbell was played as an alternative, and he never looked back. Batth and Chester played together at first this season, but they were absolutely woeful and also struggled with fitness, as did Shawcross. MON still selected them, but then started playing Collins and Souttar in the 3rd round of the Caraboa Cup in which they were outstanding, and he was pretty much left with no other choice but to try and integrate them. Souttar played first and became undropable. Collins was still in and out of the team, and it became clear that MON would not trust two young players to play in central defence at the same time, unless played in a three with either Chester or Batth as back up. So he shafted Collins off to play at rb, where he did well, but nonetheless playing there is detriment to a talented ballplaying central defender. Bursik was never in MON's plans and he was sent away, until he was absolutely the last resort in our gk injury crisis. He was exceptional (after a bad start). Yet he's once again sent away, showing that MON has no intention of playing him - unless injuries trike again. Absolute rubbish Martin O'Neill is straight as they come, the idea he put Norton on for a few minutes as some sort of political game is ridiculous The side he generally puts out is the youngest for decades If he was anti youth he wouldn't have prevented Souttar going out on loan last summer would he He didn't have to play the young players in the League Cup - away v Premiership sides - he chose to do so He certainly wouldn't play Collins at RB when he could play the older Smith. And why play Campbell when he could have picked Vokes or Gregory? He kept Bursik in the side despite older keepers having returned to fitness He, correctly,took him out if the side when his form dipped/mistakes crept in Absolutely no one was calling for Bursik to be number one at the start of the season given the excellent firm of Davies He's brought in 3 young wingers -he hasn't done that if he doesn't want young players There is a sensible debate to be had re him playing Norton, Coates and maybe some others by season end but the idea that this manager doesn't give young players a chance is as ridiculous as it is contemptible Vast majority of the managers we have had in the last 40+ years would not have given anywhere near as much playing time to these young players Would pay good money to watch you argue this with him in a public forum Grow up and put your paranoid drivel away Save it for if Pulis comes back ever.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 10, 2021 11:48:02 GMT
Meh.watching the golf.😉
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Post by thehoof on Apr 10, 2021 12:19:37 GMT
It's because Norton is an alibi for MON. This way he can make himself look like a progressive manager who plays plenty of youth. He can even brag about it in pressers. But he has limited intentions of playing any of the young players he's allowed a field day out on the bench. There's a myth going on this mb that MON is great at giving youth a chance, and Campbell, Collins, Bursik, and Souttar are listed as proof. In fact none of those players can claim to have been given their first chance in football by MON. The first two made their debuts here but selected by previous managers, and the last two played substantial amounts of matches for other clubs while out on loan. Moreover none of them were in his first team plans as this season started. Not Campbell, not Collins, and certainly not Souttar. Bursik wasn't even at the club at the time. If you look at the early season team sheets you'll see it. But a couple of things changed his mind. Ince once again was first choice but failed to do anything and so Campbell was played as an alternative, and he never looked back. Batth and Chester played together at first this season, but they were absolutely woeful and also struggled with fitness, as did Shawcross. MON still selected them, but then started playing Collins and Souttar in the 3rd round of the Caraboa Cup in which they were outstanding, and he was pretty much left with no other choice but to try and integrate them. Souttar played first and became undropable. Collins was still in and out of the team, and it became clear that MON would not trust two young players to play in central defence at the same time, unless played in a three with either Chester or Batth as back up. So he shafted Collins off to play at rb, where he did well, but nonetheless playing there is detriment to a talented ballplaying central defender. Bursik was never in MON's plans and he was sent away, until he was absolutely the last resort in our gk injury crisis. He was exceptional (after a bad start). Yet he's once again sent away, showing that MON has no intention of playing him - unless injuries trike again. Absolute rubbish Martin O'Neill is straight as they come, the idea he put Norton on for a few minutes as some sort of political game is ridiculous The side he generally puts out is the youngest for decades If he was anti youth he wouldn't have prevented Souttar going out on loan last summer would he He didn't have to play the young players in the League Cup - away v Premiership sides - he chose to do so He certainly wouldn't play Collins at RB when he could play the older Smith. And why play Campbell when he could have picked Vokes or Gregory? He kept Bursik in the side despite older keepers having returned to fitness He, correctly,took him out if the side when his form dipped/mistakes crept in Absolutely no one was calling for Bursik to be number one at the start of the season given the excellent firm of Davies He's brought in 3 young wingers -he hasn't done that if he doesn't want young players There is a sensible debate to be had re him playing Norton, Coates and maybe some others by season end but the idea that this manager doesn't give young players a chance is as ridiculous as it is contemptible Vast majority of the managers we have had in the last 40+ years would not have given anywhere near as much playing time to these young players Would pay good money to watch you argue this with him in a public forum Grow up and put your paranoid drivel away Save it for if Pulis comes back ever. KPSJA explained this season exactly as it started out- there’s no rubbish in it at all.Brought in 3 young wingers? Two of which he only played when he had to, and one who may turn out okay. I think that his use of the younger players with the exception of Souttar is not his strongest or weakest point, but to make out that he’s welded to youth is not true.
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Post by tqstokie on Apr 10, 2021 12:26:13 GMT
Let us just hope that MON has the bottle to try something different instead of the same tried and useless sustitutions. We are in a position where he really has nothing to lose. Clucas and Vokes show no desire and make no impact.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Apr 10, 2021 12:56:25 GMT
Just settling down to witness our standard St Andrews defeat as we almost never show up or get anything from the hell hole. Prove me wrong Stoke & grab the 3 points.
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Post by theonlooker on Apr 10, 2021 13:00:53 GMT
Team news. Unchanged.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 13:07:59 GMT
It's because Norton is an alibi for MON. This way he can make himself look like a progressive manager who plays plenty of youth. He can even brag about it in pressers. But he has limited intentions of playing any of the young players he's allowed a field day out on the bench. There's a myth going on this mb that MON is great at giving youth a chance, and Campbell, Collins, Bursik, and Souttar are listed as proof. In fact none of those players can claim to have been given their first chance in football by MON. The first two made their debuts here but selected by previous managers, and the last two played substantial amounts of matches for other clubs while out on loan. Moreover none of them were in his first team plans as this season started. Not Campbell, not Collins, and certainly not Souttar. Bursik wasn't even at the club at the time. If you look at the early season team sheets you'll see it. But a couple of things changed his mind. Ince once again was first choice but failed to do anything and so Campbell was played as an alternative, and he never looked back. Batth and Chester played together at first this season, but they were absolutely woeful and also struggled with fitness, as did Shawcross. MON still selected them, but then started playing Collins and Souttar in the 3rd round of the Caraboa Cup in which they were outstanding, and he was pretty much left with no other choice but to try and integrate them. Souttar played first and became undropable. Collins was still in and out of the team, and it became clear that MON would not trust two young players to play in central defence at the same time, unless played in a three with either Chester or Batth as back up. So he shafted Collins off to play at rb, where he did well, but nonetheless playing there is detriment to a talented ballplaying central defender. Bursik was never in MON's plans and he was sent away, until he was absolutely the last resort in our gk injury crisis. He was exceptional (after a bad start). Yet he's once again sent away, showing that MON has no intention of playing him - unless injuries trike again. Absolute rubbish Martin O'Neill is straight as they come, the idea he put Norton on for a few minutes as some sort of political game is ridiculous The side he generally puts out is the youngest for decades If he was anti youth he wouldn't have prevented Souttar going out on loan last summer would he He didn't have to play the young players in the League Cup - away v Premiership sides - he chose to do so He certainly wouldn't play Collins at RB when he could play the older Smith. And why play Campbell when he could have picked Vokes or Gregory? He kept Bursik in the side despite older keepers having returned to fitness He, correctly,took him out if the side when his form dipped/mistakes crept in Absolutely no one was calling for Bursik to be number one at the start of the season given the excellent firm of Davies He's brought in 3 young wingers -he hasn't done that if he doesn't want young players There is a sensible debate to be had re him playing Norton, Coates and maybe some others by season end but the idea that this manager doesn't give young players a chance is as ridiculous as it is contemptible Vast majority of the managers we have had in the last 40+ years would not have given anywhere near as much playing time to these young players Would pay good money to watch you argue this with him in a public forum Grow up and put your paranoid drivel away Save it for if Pulis comes back ever. You're welcome to be critical but could you at least quote me right? And also get the facts right. "Absolute rubbish Martin O'Neill" Yeah you got that part right... I didn't say at any point that he is anti-youth. He just prefers "older men" . He started playing younger players but ONLy when the older players failed him. Then a short while later the old returned to the team. He kept Souttar as back up at first, then as described he started playing him after others had failed. He actually did play Gregory before Campbell. He played Smith before Collins, until he finally realised Smith was a dud. He dropped Bursik as soon as Gunn returned to full fitness. Call me absolutely no one, but I saw Bursik as the option behind Davies, who'd been sensational for us in the last games of last season, but ahead of Jack. I was so angry when Gunn was signed, and you can go back in the Oatcake pages to see the discussion you and I had about both themes. As soon as Bursik made a couple of mistakes, as any young keeper will, he was dropped. The three young wingers - none of whom have made much impact - and TOB, Thompson, and Brown are different, because they are his own signings, but all of them had pedigree before joining us, some more than others though. It's the academy prospects that he is scared of trying and trusting. You're saying that previous managers played our youths less than MON is playing our youths. So you're saying Wilko never played more than seven minutes of football for Pulis...? I'd like to think Norton will eventually play more, but 7 minutes is where his record stands at this minute. You may not like it, but I am allowed to express my views here, you know. Grow up yourself, that is, if you're not too old to be taken seriously.
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Post by yyy on Apr 10, 2021 13:09:04 GMT
Interesting to see what the lineup is today after O Neill saying we don't have the players with the right mentality to take us forward. The season is over, so are we going to keep flogging a dead horse or give the young lads a chance to impress id love to see a couple more youngsters being given a go In fairness to O’Neil he has pushed Souttar, Campbell and Collins from fringe players to regulars so it would be harsh to say he doesn’t give youth a chance, this right back (Coates) and Norton for a good 25-30 mins would be ideal for me Well he is certainly keeping the faith in his dead horse. Here is to hoping more of the young lads get half an hour
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 13:12:16 GMT
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Post by lordb on Apr 10, 2021 13:15:44 GMT
Absolute rubbish Martin O'Neill is straight as they come, the idea he put Norton on for a few minutes as some sort of political game is ridiculous The side he generally puts out is the youngest for decades If he was anti youth he wouldn't have prevented Souttar going out on loan last summer would he He didn't have to play the young players in the League Cup - away v Premiership sides - he chose to do so He certainly wouldn't play Collins at RB when he could play the older Smith. And why play Campbell when he could have picked Vokes or Gregory? He kept Bursik in the side despite older keepers having returned to fitness He, correctly,took him out if the side when his form dipped/mistakes crept in Absolutely no one was calling for Bursik to be number one at the start of the season given the excellent firm of Davies He's brought in 3 young wingers -he hasn't done that if he doesn't want young players There is a sensible debate to be had re him playing Norton, Coates and maybe some others by season end but the idea that this manager doesn't give young players a chance is as ridiculous as it is contemptible Vast majority of the managers we have had in the last 40+ years would not have given anywhere near as much playing time to these young players Would pay good money to watch you argue this with him in a public forum Grow up and put your paranoid drivel away Save it for if Pulis comes back ever. KPSJA explained this season exactly as it started out- there’s no rubbish in it at all.Brought in 3 young wingers? Two of which he only played when he had to, and one who may turn out okay. I think that his use of the younger players with the exception of Souttar is not his strongest or weakest point, but to make out that he’s welded to youth is not true. Clarke had plenty of games More than he's played anywhere else
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Post by Old School Stokie on Apr 10, 2021 13:31:26 GMT
Going through the motions until next season - no promotion no relegation no interest really - squad still needs trimming and get rid of a number of players - then summer transfer until the real fight starts. If we not in top three by end of November - rethink needed on manager and players
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Post by robrigo on Apr 10, 2021 13:37:05 GMT
Can’t stand the bluenoses! Never forget my grandad ( God rest his soul) and I being chased across the car park at the Brit by a pack of them. It was terrifying!
Up the Potters! 2-1 win today!
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 10, 2021 13:52:21 GMT
It looks dead cold
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Post by lordb on Apr 10, 2021 13:54:28 GMT
Going through the motions until next season - no promotion no relegation no interest really - squad still needs trimming and get rid of a number of players - then summer transfer until the real fight starts. If we not in top three by end of November - rethink needed on manager and players That argument will be for 2022-23 season I.e. after the bomb squad have gone This summer will be tricky still
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Post by thehoof on Apr 10, 2021 13:54:57 GMT
KPSJA explained this season exactly as it started out- there’s no rubbish in it at all.Brought in 3 young wingers? Two of which he only played when he had to, and one who may turn out okay. I think that his use of the younger players with the exception of Souttar is not his strongest or weakest point, but to make out that he’s welded to youth is not true. Clarke had plenty of games More than he's played anywhere else How many were a full 90 minutes- why not give Norton a similar chance; oh that’s right Clarke must be good he’s from Spurs; Leeds played him when he was 17 - do you think O’Neil would offer that opportunity to a 19 year old in these remaining dead rubber games, unless his hand is forced? KPSJA was right , Campbell only started because of Ince’s continued useless form and Collins was picked to play out of position because of the useless performances of our right backs- I really think that O’Neill’s hand has been forced- his reliance on name players who have struggled most of the season is there for all to see- and I’m not calling to replace him, I just don’t see him as being a natural believer in youth.
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Post by Greenhoff is God on Apr 10, 2021 13:55:39 GMT
Playing the Carstairs.....You really hurt me Girl over the PA at St. Andrews , Mecca sound NS KTF✊🏼
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 10, 2021 14:05:21 GMT
well played Nodav
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Post by yyy on Apr 10, 2021 14:05:46 GMT
This game has started at a nice pace
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 10, 2021 14:06:23 GMT
Long throw. That's not football.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Apr 10, 2021 14:06:50 GMT
Bournemouth and Coventry is already 1-1
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Post by theonlooker on Apr 10, 2021 14:08:46 GMT
Fletcher hobbling already...
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 10, 2021 14:08:50 GMT
Fletch is walking awkward
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Post by christhepotter on Apr 10, 2021 14:09:13 GMT
Fletcher limping , nothing changes 🤣😂
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Post by maninasuitcase on Apr 10, 2021 14:09:52 GMT
His legs are worse than my kitchen table
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Apr 10, 2021 14:12:20 GMT
Good ca
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Post by yyy on Apr 10, 2021 14:12:21 GMT
It's like having the fame on fast forward
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 10, 2021 14:12:24 GMT
It must be time to send on Vokes, surely?
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Post by christhepotter on Apr 10, 2021 14:13:33 GMT
It must be time to send on Vokes, surely? It’s never time send on Vokes 😁🤣😂
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