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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 14, 2021 0:57:45 GMT
Whether it's an empty gesture or not is simply your opinion. I'd rather the black players stay standing and white players take the knee in support of their black colleagues. No white person, footballer or otherwise, is abused because of the colour of their skin. Taking a knee, or whatever gesture sports people want to take in support of their colleagues and friends who are receiving vile abuse is fine with me and should be equally fine for any right minded individual. So why are they stopping doing it then? Don't know. I've not read their statement. Its irrelevant though. If they want to stop doing it so as to do something else that's absolutely fine and their prerogative. The fact that some celebrate the stopping of it as some kind of victory for the charade they believe it to be says it all really.
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Post by a on Feb 14, 2021 1:00:16 GMT
So why are they stopping doing it then? Don't know. I've not read their statement. Its irrelevant though. If they want to stop doing it so as to do something else that's absolutely fine and their prerogative. The fact that some celebrate the stopping of it as some kind of victory for the charade they believe it to be says it all really. I think it should be stopped. I don’t think anyone is taking any notice if it and the clubs and perhaps more importantly the official bodies representing the sport should take a much harder line on anyone acting in a manner deemed to be racist. If that says it all then so be it, I’d rather football did more than kneel down to tackle abhorrent racism but that’s just me.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 14, 2021 1:03:53 GMT
Don't know. I've not read their statement. Its irrelevant though. If they want to stop doing it so as to do something else that's absolutely fine and their prerogative. The fact that some celebrate the stopping of it as some kind of victory for the charade they believe it to be says it all really. I think it should be stopped. I don’t think anyone is taking any notice if it and the clubs and perhaps more importantly the official bodies representing the sport should take a much harder line on anyone acting in a manner deemed to be racist. If that says it all then so be it, I’d rather football did more than kneel down to tackle abhorrent racism but that’s just me. Football could take the knee alongside other activities. I suspect the stopping of the knee in Brentford case, a club with plenty of black players, is more a case of them hoping taking the knee would move the authorities to do more to tackle abhorrent racism. Sadly, as yet, they haven't.
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Post by a on Feb 14, 2021 1:12:52 GMT
I think it should be stopped. I don’t think anyone is taking any notice if it and the clubs and perhaps more importantly the official bodies representing the sport should take a much harder line on anyone acting in a manner deemed to be racist. If that says it all then so be it, I’d rather football did more than kneel down to tackle abhorrent racism but that’s just me. Football could take the knee alongside other activities. I suspect the stopping of the knee in Brentford case, a club with plenty of black players, is more a case of them hoping taking the knee would move the authorities to do more to tackle abhorrent racism. Sadly, as yet, they haven't. I don’t think they will either. That’s the sad reality of it. It’s shocking that it still happens, but lump them in with social media too, it’s rife on there too with apparently little desire or willingness to change, I don’t have the answers but it needs more to be done than there currently is as it’s still such a rightfully big issue.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 14, 2021 1:19:55 GMT
So why are they stopping doing it then? Don't know. I've not read their statement. Its irrelevant though. If they want to stop doing it so as to do something else that's absolutely fine and their prerogative. The fact that some celebrate the stopping of it as some kind of victory for the charade they believe it to be says it all really. I don’t think anybody’s celebrating Dave. I just think that rightly or wrongly because of the political link around BLM there will always be controversy around the knee. There is no controversy around racism being an awful thing that needs stamping out and those responsible for it receiving suitable punishment not like what happened to Ian Wrights abuser. The justice system needs a shake up in this country, until suitable punishments are handed out for commiting crime nothing will change as there’s no consequences. The lad should have been made an example of but instead what happened to him will send out a message to others just like him that similar behaviour will just get them a slap on the wrist.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 14, 2021 1:26:33 GMT
Don't know. I've not read their statement. Its irrelevant though. If they want to stop doing it so as to do something else that's absolutely fine and their prerogative. The fact that some celebrate the stopping of it as some kind of victory for the charade they believe it to be says it all really. I don’t think anybody’s celebrating Dave. I just think that rightly or wrongly because of the political link around BLM there will always be controversy around the knee. There is no controversy around racism being an awful thing that needs stamping out and those responsible for it receiving suitable punishment not like what happened to Ian Wrights abuser. The justice system needs a shake up in this country, until suitable punishments are handed out for commiting crime nothing will change as there’s no consequences. The lad should have been made an example of but instead what happened to him will send out a message to others just like him that similar behaviour will just get them a slap on the wrist. I've now read the brentford statement and comments from wilf zaha and clearly they are tired of being the only ones to take the stance and feel like the authorities, the ones with the power to drive change, are just hiding behind them. They'd probably be right. As I say, if that's what they want to do then fine. It's sad, really sad, as to why they are stopping doing it but celebrating it as some kind of victory is pretty appalling in my opinion. There should be no controversy around any stance against racial abuse. None whatsoever.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 14, 2021 1:43:42 GMT
I don’t think anybody’s celebrating Dave. I just think that rightly or wrongly because of the political link around BLM there will always be controversy around the knee. There is no controversy around racism being an awful thing that needs stamping out and those responsible for it receiving suitable punishment not like what happened to Ian Wrights abuser. The justice system needs a shake up in this country, until suitable punishments are handed out for commiting crime nothing will change as there’s no consequences. The lad should have been made an example of but instead what happened to him will send out a message to others just like him that similar behaviour will just get them a slap on the wrist. I've now read the brentford statement and comments from wilf zaha and clearly they are tired of being the only ones to take the stance and feel like the authorities, the ones with the power to drive change, are just hiding behind them. They'd probably be right. As I say, if that's what they want to do then fine. It's sad, really sad, as to why they are stopping doing it but celebrating it as some kind of victory is pretty appalling in my opinion. There should be no controversy around any stance against racial abuse. None whatsoever. I don’t think there is any controversy around almost everybody being against racial abuse. It’s the link to BLM the political movement that causes the confusion around the knee not the fight against racism. Some of the BLMs more radical members like Sasha have created division sadly because of their extreme views. Have you seen any of her speeches?
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 14, 2021 2:13:01 GMT
No white person, footballer or otherwise, is abused because of the colour of their skin. What a gobsmackingly ignorant thing to say
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 14, 2021 2:17:24 GMT
Anyone who is offended by anyone attempting to take a stand against racial discrimination is, in my humble opinion, inherently racist. I don't agree with MoMo on much football wise but I'm with him 100% on this. He is offended by racism and clearly has zero tolerance of such vile, bigoted, disgusting abuse because of the colour of a person's skin. I'm with him. Well said MoMo. But I'm "offended" by BLM (as a great number of black people are) because I have zero tolerance for racism. So now what
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Post by lawrieleslie on Feb 14, 2021 8:26:46 GMT
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Post by Northy on Feb 14, 2021 8:40:33 GMT
Yes probably best if players stop taking the knee. It seems to be encouraging it. Best the black lads and their mates just swallow it and accept it. That's the way forward. Stand shoulder to shoulder would have been better.
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Post by sportsman on Feb 14, 2021 8:42:32 GMT
The BLM movement sent race relations back 20 years. I agree. I think a lot of people are so fed up of seeing it all it's starting to make the average bloke on the street not racist, but bloody annoyed at being bombarded day in day out with people and the media telling you you're a racist if you don't take the knee. I'm certainly no racist. I view everyone the same but I can do the same if you like . I'm offended when on tele a black man keeps saying a person of colour when referring to a black person. Last time I checked, white was a colour.
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Post by Cns on Feb 14, 2021 8:46:03 GMT
The BLM movement sent race relations back 20 years. I agree. I think a lot of people are so fed up of seeing it all it's starting to make the average bloke on the street not racist, but bloody annoyed at being bombarded day in day out with people and the media telling you you're a racist if you don't take the knee. I'm certainly no racist. I view everyone the same but I can do the same if you like . I'm offended when on tele a black man keeps saying a person of colour when referring to a black person. Last time I checked, white was a colour. It seemingly only works one way, maybe they should visit some white south African farmers, well the ones that haven't been murdered.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 14, 2021 8:55:00 GMT
Anyone who is offended by anyone attempting to take a stand against racial discrimination is, in my humble opinion, inherently racist. I don't agree with MoMo on much football wise but I'm with him 100% on this. He is offended by racism and clearly has zero tolerance of such vile, bigoted, disgusting abuse because of the colour of a person's skin. I'm with him. Well said MoMo. But I'm "offended" by BLM (as a great number of black people are) because I have zero tolerance for racism. So now what I've not once referenced BLM movement.
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Post by mattyd2 on Feb 14, 2021 9:00:15 GMT
Wonder if Sir Lewis will still do it, and if so how many fellow racers join him.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 14, 2021 9:01:50 GMT
The BLM movement sent race relations back 20 years. I agree. I think a lot of people are so fed up of seeing it all it's starting to make the average bloke on the street not racist, but bloody annoyed at being bombarded day in day out with people and the media telling you you're a racist if you don't take the knee. I'm certainly no racist. I view everyone the same but I can do the same if you like . I'm offended when on tele a black man keeps saying a person of colour when referring to a black person. Last time I checked, white was a colour. I've not seen 1 report that suggests anyone should "take the knee". It is a simple display of solidarity and togetherness aimed to prompt governing bodies to take the issue of racism specifically (and wider discrimination of any type generally) more seriously. How it can offend anyone is beyond me. And the "all lives matter" retort is equally ridiculous. Of course they do and no sane person has ever suggested otherwise.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 14, 2021 9:04:54 GMT
You don't have to scratch far beneath the surface on this messageboard do you.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 14, 2021 9:05:17 GMT
I agree. I think a lot of people are so fed up of seeing it all it's starting to make the average bloke on the street not racist, but bloody annoyed at being bombarded day in day out with people and the media telling you you're a racist if you don't take the knee. I'm certainly no racist. I view everyone the same but I can do the same if you like . I'm offended when on tele a black man keeps saying a person of colour when referring to a black person. Last time I checked, white was a colour. It seemingly only works one way, maybe they should visit some white south African farmers, well the ones that haven't been murdered. You are aware of Nelson Mandela and apartheid aren't you? Abuse and intolerance based on the colour of skin, be they white or black is abhorrent. The end!
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Post by sportsman on Feb 14, 2021 9:05:36 GMT
I agree. I think a lot of people are so fed up of seeing it all it's starting to make the average bloke on the street not racist, but bloody annoyed at being bombarded day in day out with people and the media telling you you're a racist if you don't take the knee. I'm certainly no racist. I view everyone the same but I can do the same if you like . I'm offended when on tele a black man keeps saying a person of colour when referring to a black person. Last time I checked, white was a colour. I've not seen 1 report that suggests anyone should "take the knee". It is a simple display of solidarity and togetherness aimed to prompt governing bodies to take the issue of racism specifically (and wider discrimination of any type generally) more seriously. How it can offend anyone is beyond me. And the "all lives matter" retort is equally ridiculous. Of course they do and no sane person has ever suggested otherwise. Offended is not the word for me. Pissed of with, bored of it, call it what you want there. I'm all for going after racists of any colour, just absolutely titsed of with this knee stuff, as I bet 80% of football fans up and down the country are. While we're on it, how do you feel about white not being a colour? Do you agree with that?
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Post by werrington on Feb 14, 2021 9:08:11 GMT
It seemingly only works one way, maybe they should visit some white south African farmers, well the ones that haven't been murdered. You are aware of Nelson Mandela and apartheid aren't you? Abuse and intolerance based on the colour of skin, be they white or black is abhorrent. The end! I’m going to broaden this a bit Dave as I agree 100% with you It seems funny and acceptable to mock the colour of somebody’s hair though even though those people get offended and lives shaped because of it There’s a lot of hypocrisy on here
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 14, 2021 9:08:54 GMT
But I'm "offended" by BLM (as a great number of black people are) because I have zero tolerance for racism. So now what I've not once referenced BLM movement. You haven’t. Others have... Harry Kane: England captain says kneeling for Black Lives Matter remains vitalThe debate has got twisted and polarised. Opposition to BLM is seen by some as an excuse for condoning racism while for others it is a legitimate concern about an organisation with political views they disagree with. It’s not really surprising because BLM means different things. So, IMO, best to find another way to move forward that is unambiguous. Maybe reboot No Room For Racism.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 14, 2021 9:12:58 GMT
You are aware of Nelson Mandela and apartheid aren't you? Abuse and intolerance based on the colour of skin, be they white or black is abhorrent. The end! I’m going to broaden this a bit Dave as I agree 100% with you It seems funny and acceptable to mock the colour of somebody’s hair though even though those people get offended and lives shaped because of it It's a perfectly fair and valid point. Discrimination of any type is appalling. I've been guilty of ginger comments in my younger days as a joking comment but when I learned that actually it offended deeply the person in question I never did it again. A friend made a stand, educated me and I took it on board. It's a shame so many others can't do likewise.
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Post by werrington on Feb 14, 2021 9:16:31 GMT
I’m going to broaden this a bit Dave as I agree 100% with you It seems funny and acceptable to mock the colour of somebody’s hair though even though those people get offended and lives shaped because of it It's a perfectly fair and valid point. Discrimination of any type is appalling. I've been guilty of ginger comments in my younger days as a joking comment but when I learned that actually it offended deeply the person in question I never did it again. A friend made a stand, educated me and I took it on board. It's a shame so many others can't do likewise. Indeed mate I’ll even go so far and add overweight people into it .....we’ve even got a thread with FAT Frank as the headline It seems it’s funny and acceptable to offend those people also
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Post by sportsman on Feb 14, 2021 9:19:18 GMT
You don't have to scratch far beneath the surface on this messageboard do you. But you don't have to be racist to disagree or be fed up or pissed off with something. I'm sure no one on this message board is racist, I'm certainly not. I just don't agree with how this whole movement is going about it. Before it started this county was doing pretty well at it with football. Sterling was doing and saying the right things which everyone agreed with, England fans and the media were up in arms at that away match wherever it was and the players were ready to walk off. Good on them. Then this has happened and it's set it back 30 years. Does that make me a racist to disagree with something and have a view which was having a better effect in this country, 12 months ago or now? Hmmmmm
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Post by chuckrocky on Feb 14, 2021 9:24:08 GMT
It’s not that though. It’s the ‘attempt’ that is hollow and has done very little to tackle the issue. If you think that thinking that taking the knee is an empty gesture is racist then you are very very wrong. Whether it's an empty gesture or not is simply your opinion. I'd rather the black players stay standing and white players take the knee in support of their black colleagues. No white person, footballer or otherwise, is abused because of the colour of their skin. Taking a knee, or whatever gesture sports people want to take in support of their colleagues and friends who are receiving vile abuse is fine with me and should be equally fine for any right minded individual. You honestly don’t believe white people are abused because of the colour of their skin?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 14, 2021 9:25:51 GMT
You don't have to scratch far beneath the surface on this messageboard do you. But you don't have to be racist to disagree or be fed up or pissed off with something. I'm sure no one on this message board is racist, I'm certainly not. I just don't agree with how this whole movement is going about it. Before it started this county was doing pretty well at it with football. Sterling was doing and saying the right things which everyone agreed with, England fans and the media were up in arms at that away match wherever it was and the players were ready to walk off. Good on them. Then this has happened and it's set it back 30 years. Does that make me a racist to disagree with something and have a view which was having a better effect in this country, 12 months ago or now? Hmmmmm This country wasn't doing pretty well with it though. It might have been through your eyes as a white football fan but it certainly wasn't through the eyes of a black footballer.
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Post by sportsman on Feb 14, 2021 9:26:07 GMT
I’m going to broaden this a bit Dave as I agree 100% with you It seems funny and acceptable to mock the colour of somebody’s hair though even though those people get offended and lives shaped because of it It's a perfectly fair and valid point. Discrimination of any type is appalling. I've been guilty of ginger comments in my younger days as a joking comment but when I learned that actually it offended deeply the person in question I never did it again. A friend made a stand, educated me and I took it on board. It's a shame so many others can't do likewise. I think so many others actually do. Being pissed off at watching players still taking the knee before every game of football does not make them a racist. I've read somewhere people turn over channels at the point of taking the knee then turn back on. They'll then probably cheer on all their black players and praise their performance. Now is that a racist or someone titsed off and not agreeing with doing something?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 14, 2021 9:28:04 GMT
Whether it's an empty gesture or not is simply your opinion. I'd rather the black players stay standing and white players take the knee in support of their black colleagues. No white person, footballer or otherwise, is abused because of the colour of their skin. Taking a knee, or whatever gesture sports people want to take in support of their colleagues and friends who are receiving vile abuse is fine with me and should be equally fine for any right minded individual. You honestly don’t believe white people are abused because of the colour of their skin? I don't believe it is mainstream in the uk no. Do you? I don't believe that a heterosexual white Male loses out on job opportunities for being white for example.
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Post by sportsman on Feb 14, 2021 9:31:46 GMT
But you don't have to be racist to disagree or be fed up or pissed off with something. I'm sure no one on this message board is racist, I'm certainly not. I just don't agree with how this whole movement is going about it. Before it started this county was doing pretty well at it with football. Sterling was doing and saying the right things which everyone agreed with, England fans and the media were up in arms at that away match wherever it was and the players were ready to walk off. Good on them. Then this has happened and it's set it back 30 years. Does that make me a racist to disagree with something and have a view which was having a better effect in this country, 12 months ago or now? Hmmmmm This country wasn't doing pretty well with it though. It might have been through your eyes as a white football fan but it certainly wasn't through the eyes of a black footballer. So go on then. In this country, in football, what instances or racism did we have before BLM? I think a fan or two at Chelsea I think I remember and they were trying to be identified. It was certainly not this bad as it is now. So again I ask, do you think BLM and taking the knee has made stopping racism better or worse? 30 years worse maybe? Very isolated instances more than 12 months ago.
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Post by ethers26 on Feb 14, 2021 9:32:22 GMT
For any of you who are commenting utter shit like "I think it should be stopped" or "Whether you're for it or against it"
Basically anyone implying that black people shouldn't be able to express their feelings on the situation, you are absolutely the problem here.
Small minded doesn't even cut it.
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