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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 16, 2020 9:39:35 GMT
Bursik 8, Excellent game confident and decisive coming out for the ball
Collins 7, Decent game - but does have a habit of going walkabout Souttar 8, Excellent - can't believe he's the same player as the one we sent out on loan Chester 7, Solid calming influence Fox 5, apart from one cross thought he had a poor game - kept giving the ball away
Tymon 6, Apart from one chance just didn't get in the game Cousins 8.5, MoN - always involved and excellent distribution Powell 6, Just didn't do much
Ince 7, Good first half, quieter in the second. Just looked classier on the ball than most McClean 6, looked fitter and got stuck in but crossing poor Brown 6, A lot of energy but not a lone striker
Fletcher 7, Made a difference by coming deeper and rattling the defenders Thompson 7, Far more effective than Tymon in that role TOB 6, didn't do much Verlinden 7, tried to get involved and looks to have bulked up a bit which is good news
I really don't like formations with 1 up top and this game typified why - we just didn't give the central defenders much to think about and when the crosses did come in there went players in the box to make them count. Having said that a far better game then against Derby and for long periods we bossed it. We lost 8-2 in the equivalent fixtures to the last two games last year - just a shame we couldn't get the 2.
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Post by RAF on Dec 16, 2020 10:00:42 GMT
Everyone starts on a 5. Chester was pretty terrible first half imo For you perhaps but not everyone. I know only one player risked throwing a point away not for a genuine mistake but for an impetuous use of his arms which if the referee had seen it would have been a penalty and yellow card. I wish he would cut that side of his game out. Having seen what he did playing for Ireland and last night I wonder if we got away with one on our appeal of his sending off. When he gets into the Premier spotlights that sort of thing will be highlighted and he will get a reputation. Yet people on here are saying he was faultless. His passing wasn't that good last night either. Not one person has said he was faultless or rated him as a 10 so stop re-writing history. I remember not too far back Huth was getting plaudits for using the dark arts but now it seems when it comes to a young talented lad it's used as a stick to twat him with for one silly mistake which the ref missed anyway. You obviously watched a different game than I did. H
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Post by nottsover60 on Dec 16, 2020 10:07:33 GMT
For you perhaps but not everyone. I know only one player risked throwing a point away not for a genuine mistake but for an impetuous use of his arms which if the referee had seen it would have been a penalty and yellow card. I wish he would cut that side of his game out. Having seen what he did playing for Ireland and last night I wonder if we got away with one on our appeal of his sending off. When he gets into the Premier spotlights that sort of thing will be highlighted and he will get a reputation. Yet people on here are saying he was faultless. His passing wasn't that good last night either. Not one person has said he was faultless or rated him as a 10 so stop re-writing history. I remember not too far back Huth was getting plaudits for using the dark arts but now it seems when it comes to a young talented lad it's used as a stick to twat him with for one silly mistake which the ref missed anyway. You obviously watched a different game than I did. H Perhaps not but he's been given 8 by several while Fox gets 5. Fox provided the cross of the night which Powell should have scored from and had to deal with their most dangerous player.
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Post by RAF on Dec 16, 2020 11:01:43 GMT
Not one person has said he was faultless or rated him as a 10 so stop re-writing history. I remember not too far back Huth was getting plaudits for using the dark arts but now it seems when it comes to a young talented lad it's used as a stick to twat him with for one silly mistake which the ref missed anyway. You obviously watched a different game than I did. H Perhaps not but he's been given 8 by several while Fox gets 5. Fox provided the cross of the night which Powell should have scored from and had to deal with their most dangerous player. One decent cross and was exposed time and time again down the left flank, granted McClean did absolutely nothing to protect him. 5 is an average score for an average performance for me. H
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Post by nottsover60 on Dec 16, 2020 12:04:30 GMT
Perhaps not but he's been given 8 by several while Fox gets 5. Fox provided the cross of the night which Powell should have scored from and had to deal with their most dangerous player. One decent cross and was exposed time and time again down the left flank, granted McClean did absolutely nothing to protect him. 5 is an average score for an average performance for me. H So talk to me about why you gave Collins who had an easier job, could well have given away a stupid penalty and whose passing was wasteful at times an 8. There wasn't much between them generally but one could have won us the match and one could have lost it. Your marks don't reflect that.
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Post by RAF on Dec 16, 2020 12:19:33 GMT
One decent cross and was exposed time and time again down the left flank, granted McClean did absolutely nothing to protect him. 5 is an average score for an average performance for me. H So talk to me about why you gave Collins who had an easier job, could well have given away a stupid penalty and whose passing was wasteful at times an 8. There wasn't much between them generally but one could have won us the match and one could have lost it. Your marks don't reflect that. My marks reflect what I saw. As we know very well supporters invariably see things differently.Had he given away a penalty then I would have docked him accordingly. It's like saying 'If Verlindens effort had have hit the back of the net it would have been a goal' It's irrelevant. If you want to penalise him for something that COULD have happened and MIGHT get analysed more IF he plays in the prem that's up to you.I saw two errant passes from what was otherwise an assured bit of defending, and I actually think his passing was decent in general. The fact our midfield couldn't trap a dead mouse didn't help. H
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Post by nottsover60 on Dec 16, 2020 13:08:31 GMT
So talk to me about why you gave Collins who had an easier job, could well have given away a stupid penalty and whose passing was wasteful at times an 8. There wasn't much between them generally but one could have won us the match and one could have lost it. Your marks don't reflect that. My marks reflect what I saw. As we know very well supporters invariably see things differently.Had he given away a penalty then I would have docked him accordingly. It's like saying 'If Verlindens effort had have hit the back of the net it would have been a goal' It's irrelevant. If you want to penalise him for something that COULD have happened and MIGHT get analysed more IF he plays in the prem that's up to you.I saw two errant passes from what was otherwise an assured bit of defending, and I actually think his passing was decent in general. The fact our midfield couldn't trap a dead mouse didn't help. H But what he did should have been punished by a yellow card and a penalty. Just because the referee didn't see it doesn't mean he didn't do it so it is totally different from a shot not hitting the back of the net - either the shot wasn't good enough or a piece of good play by an opponent prevented the goal or perhaps a lucky deflection but what Collins did actually happened and had there been VAR he wouldn't have got away with it. So if Collins passes don't go to a player it's their fault but if Fox's don't it's his fault? As I said in my original post a lot of players' scores on here are decided in advance whereas neutrals see it as it is. I am not berating Collins just trying to understand why last night he was judged to be 30 per cent better than Fox if the scores were on what they actually did rather than what people expected. I think the 2 summarisers on Sky were far more honest in their assessment of Fox.
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Post by RAF on Dec 16, 2020 13:20:44 GMT
My marks reflect what I saw. As we know very well supporters invariably see things differently.Had he given away a penalty then I would have docked him accordingly. It's like saying 'If Verlindens effort had have hit the back of the net it would have been a goal' It's irrelevant. If you want to penalise him for something that COULD have happened and MIGHT get analysed more IF he plays in the prem that's up to you.I saw two errant passes from what was otherwise an assured bit of defending, and I actually think his passing was decent in general. The fact our midfield couldn't trap a dead mouse didn't help. H But what he did should have been punished by a yellow card and a penalty. Just because the referee didn't see it doesn't mean he didn't do it so it is totally different from a shot not hitting the back of the net - either the shot wasn't good enough or a piece of good play by an opponent prevented the goal or perhaps a lucky deflection but what Collins did actually happened and had there been VAR he wouldn't have got away with it. So if Collins passes don't go to a player it's their fault but if Fox's don't it's his fault? As I said in my original post a lot of players' scores on here are decided in advance whereas neutrals see it as it is. I am not berating Collins just trying to understand why last night he was judged to be 30 per cent better than Fox if the scores were on what they actually did rather than what people expected. I think the 2 summarisers on Sky were far more honest in their assessment of Fox. Opinions vary. One thing I certainly don't do is decide my scores in advance, in fact I don't do the whole player ratings that often as it goes. The coulda shoulda woulda argument is irrelevant unless the ref does see it and does something about it. It would only become concerning to me if it becomes something he does regularly, I call it impetuousness of youth. Yes it was stupid but I'm not marking him down for something that might have happened. I quite like Fox as it goes, just thought he was very average last night. Maybe it was the head injury? Anyway it's only an opinion. H
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Post by hardcastle on Dec 17, 2020 15:18:21 GMT
Notts makes a good point. Once we get an idea in our heads (e.g. Cousins is crap, Verlinden is going to be a world beater) we sometimes disregard the evidence of our own eyes.
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 17, 2020 15:29:57 GMT
As a point of order, 5 is actually a slightly below average score, assuming we don't award zeroes. There's only four steps on the scale below it, and five above. That's why 5 has the feel of being harsh for a player who has had an average game, and people tend towards 6 (slightly above average).
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Post by RAF on Dec 17, 2020 15:42:15 GMT
As a point of order, 5 is actually a slightly below average score, assuming we don't award zeroes. There's only four steps on the scale below it, and five above. That's why 5 has the feel of being harsh for a player who has had an average game, and people tend towards 6 (slightly above average). There is only four steps above 6 so maybe we should have 11 as max not 10? H
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 17, 2020 16:09:52 GMT
As a point of order, 5 is actually a slightly below average score, assuming we don't award zeroes. There's only four steps on the scale below it, and five above. That's why 5 has the feel of being harsh for a player who has had an average game, and people tend towards 6 (slightly above average). There is only four steps above 6 so maybe we should have 11 as max not 10? H A Spinal Tap ratings scale, like it
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