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Post by ukcstokie on Oct 31, 2020 18:28:19 GMT
10 - 3 points and ditching the 3 at the back system - we looked better defensively and created more chances too.
As the players have been trained with the 3 at the back system for quite a few months now it may take a bit of time to get it all working properly like we were before lockdown.
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Post by bgreen13 on Oct 31, 2020 18:35:56 GMT
Oh an opposing opinion from the luminate? I'm sorry. You're not getting it are you? Again, We were no better today than we've been at any point of the season. But today it's because the players weren't at it but that was met with heresy when it was suggested before. Which again, brings us back to why they ‘just aren’t at it’ more consistently in one formation than the other? It’s almost as if it’s inhibiting them? The difference is that we’ve seen 4-2-3-1 work quite effectively over a period of time and produce good, entertaining, effective performances and 3-4-3 hasn’t come close to offering that same level of performance with any regularity. More consistently inconsistent. The players aren't up to speed yet, wether they're playing with 3 at the back or 4. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 31, 2020 18:43:24 GMT
Which again, brings us back to why they ‘just aren’t at it’ more consistently in one formation than the other? It’s almost as if it’s inhibiting them? The difference is that we’ve seen 4-2-3-1 work quite effectively over a period of time and produce good, entertaining, effective performances and 3-4-3 hasn’t come close to offering that same level of performance with any regularity. More consistently inconsistent. The players aren't up to speed yet, wether they're playing with 3 at the back or 4. So in time, with the three at the back, you see us smashing teams regularly by three or four goals again? |
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Post by bgreen13 on Oct 31, 2020 18:53:46 GMT
More consistently inconsistent. The players aren't up to speed yet, wether they're playing with 3 at the back or 4. So in time, with the three at the back, you see us smashing teams regularly by three or four goals again? Again? Why not? There's zero evidence to suggest we will or won't is there? Like there's no evidence that we will with 4 at the back. Just excuses and entrenched views. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 31, 2020 18:57:19 GMT
So in time, with the three at the back, you see us smashing teams regularly by three or four goals again? Again? Why not? There's zero evidence to suggest we will or won't is there? Like there's no evidence that we will with 4 at the back. Just excuses and entrenched views. Well the evidence we will with four at the back is all those times we did last season. I’d venture the reason why not with the other system is that it marginalises our better forward players and we don’t have the kind of wing backs required to create much. It’s good if you’ve got quick players and are playing as underdogs on the break against a team that likes to attack but not generally when you’re the side expected to break teams down. That’s just my opinion though. |
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Post by TinkerT on Oct 31, 2020 19:01:14 GMT
10 - 3 points and ditching the 3 at the back system - we looked better defensively and created more chances too. As the players have been trained with the 3 at the back system for quite a few months now it may take a bit of time to get it all working properly like we were before lockdown. We were very lucky IMO. They opened the game up around the 50th min mark and if we were against a better team would have lost at least one goal. Needed more in midfield WAY before he introduced cousins as they were running thru us. Like I say we were very lucky today, PS we played 3 at the back for the majority 😉 |
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Post by StaffordPotter on Oct 31, 2020 20:04:10 GMT
another poor performance really, cant be more than a 6. Correct team, poor tactics and/or poor motivation. Lazy is the best word. I'd give a 5. I'd agree with this. |
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Post by neddy on Oct 31, 2020 20:10:45 GMT
When we went up last time I don’t remember that side playing everyone off the pitch?
Keep us around the play offs with players to come back and a Jan window to come....keep the faith!
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Oct 31, 2020 20:37:20 GMT
6 scraped a win against a not very good side. Would have been 5 but an extra point for playing 4 at the back. Gouranga.  |
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Post by bgreen13 on Oct 31, 2020 21:15:53 GMT
Again? Why not? There's zero evidence to suggest we will or won't is there? Like there's no evidence that we will with 4 at the back. Just excuses and entrenched views. Well the evidence we will with four at the back is all those times we did last season. I’d venture the reason why not with the other system is that it marginalises our better forward players and we don’t have the kind of wing backs required to create much. It’s good if you’ve got quick players and are playing as underdogs on the break against a team that likes to attack but not generally when you’re the side expected to break teams down. That’s just my opinion though. But there's no actual proof that WHEN our players get properly up and running that a back 3 won't work. Just like there's no proof that WHEN they get up to proper speed that they'll recreate those halcyon times. Either way they aren't at the minute. |
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Post by mermaidsal on Oct 31, 2020 21:35:33 GMT
When we went up last time I don’t remember that side playing everyone off the pitch? Keep us around the play offs with players to come back and a Jan window to come....keep the faith! Agreed, tempting fate but there's a lot about this season reminding me of the promotion season |
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Post by maninasuitcase on Oct 31, 2020 21:36:37 GMT
7
Started well.
Scored a good goal from a long ball.
Slid into a bit of mediocrity in the middle of the game.
Weathered a bit of a storm from rotherham, especially Miller who was causing us a few problems.
Then saw out the game.
A dull win, but good to know we can grind out a result when some of the team are in an uninspired mode.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 31, 2020 21:58:35 GMT
Well the evidence we will with four at the back is all those times we did last season. I’d venture the reason why not with the other system is that it marginalises our better forward players and we don’t have the kind of wing backs required to create much. It’s good if you’ve got quick players and are playing as underdogs on the break against a team that likes to attack but not generally when you’re the side expected to break teams down. That’s just my opinion though. But there's no actual proof that WHEN our players get properly up and running that a back 3 won't work. Just like there's no proof that WHEN they get up to proper speed that they'll recreate those halcyon times. Either way they aren't at the minute. All we’ve got is the proof that 4-2-3-1 has yielded better performances and results overall than 3-4-3. There’s more evidence for one than the other so far. When we start producing the same kind of results and performances with 3-4-3 then there will be more of a case for it? |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 31, 2020 22:00:18 GMT
When we went up last time I don’t remember that side playing everyone off the pitch? Keep us around the play offs with players to come back and a Jan window to come....keep the faith! When we went up last time we were one of the highest scoring teams in the Championship. We put three past Sheffield United at Brammall Lane, destroyed West Brom two days before Christmas and put four past Wolves at Molineux. |
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Post by Gunslinger on Oct 31, 2020 22:15:01 GMT
6
Three points, but not the best performance.
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Post by neddy on Oct 31, 2020 22:15:09 GMT
When we went up last time I don’t remember that side playing everyone off the pitch? Keep us around the play offs with players to come back and a Jan window to come....keep the faith! When we went up last time we were one of the highest scoring teams in the Championship. We put three past Sheffield United at Brammall Lane, destroyed West Brom two days before Christmas and put four past Wolves at Molineux. Yes scored 3 before half time re Sheff but can’t remember WBA? V wolves we could have lost had a penalty been given re Diaos tackle I remember that game could have go on either way. I’m sure there will be twists and turns to come! |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 31, 2020 22:15:58 GMT
When we went up last time we were one of the highest scoring teams in the Championship. We put three past Sheffield United at Brammall Lane, destroyed West Brom two days before Christmas and put four past Wolves at Molineux. Yes scored 3 before half time re Sheff but can’t remember WBA? V wolves we could have lost had a penalty been given re Diaos tackle I remember that game could have go on either way. I’m sure there will be twists and turns to come! Fuller scored a hat trick. We were solid and Tone gonna Tone, but he was prepared to go for it that season. |
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Post by gawa on Oct 31, 2020 22:24:38 GMT
When we went up last time I don’t remember that side playing everyone off the pitch? Keep us around the play offs with players to come back and a Jan window to come....keep the faith! When we went up last time we were one of the highest scoring teams in the Championship. We put three past Sheffield United at Brammall Lane, destroyed West Brom two days before Christmas and put four past Wolves at Molineux. Also conceded 4 at home to Sheffield Wednesday. Followed up the 3-1 "hammering" at WBA without a win in 4 league games. And for all the free scoring had two periods of 10 games or more without a clean sheet in the league. Also went out of the FA cup in the third round with a 4-1 defeat to Newcastle. And were knocked out of the league cup in the first round to league 2 Rochdale. |
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Post by owdestokie2 on Oct 31, 2020 22:30:01 GMT
6 was good he went to a back 4 , but was still a poor performance, it’s his job to motivate the players and they came out worse second half Perhaps the players should be motivated individually and then as a team motivate each other. Just a thought |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2020 22:45:02 GMT
It would be unfair for me to rate him as I didn’t see much of the second half, however from what I saw of the first half we were in control. Could/should have buried the game. I’m not sure what O’Neill could have done more today
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 31, 2020 22:49:24 GMT
When we went up last time we were one of the highest scoring teams in the Championship. We put three past Sheffield United at Brammall Lane, destroyed West Brom two days before Christmas and put four past Wolves at Molineux. Also conceded 4 at home to Sheffield Wednesday. Followed up the 3-1 "hammering" at WBA without a win in 4 league games. And for all the free scoring had two periods of 10 games or more without a clean sheet in the league. Also went out of the FA cup in the third round with a 4-1 defeat to Newcastle. And were knocked out of the league cup in the first round to league 2 Rochdale. I’m not sure what your point is? |
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Post by RAF on Oct 31, 2020 22:51:04 GMT
7 for his selection and a clean sheet.
I can't help feeling we would have seen better had he not dropped the on form players for the Swansea game.
H
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Post by gawa on Oct 31, 2020 22:57:49 GMT
Also conceded 4 at home to Sheffield Wednesday. Followed up the 3-1 "hammering" at WBA without a win in 4 league games. And for all the free scoring had two periods of 10 games or more without a clean sheet in the league. Also went out of the FA cup in the third round with a 4-1 defeat to Newcastle. And were knocked out of the league cup in the first round to league 2 Rochdale. I’m not sure what your point is? My point is that it's easy to cherry pick the statistics to fit around the statement you're attempting to make. A bit like when Donald Trump pulls some carefully selected statistics to try and portray himself as the best president in history. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 31, 2020 23:02:39 GMT
I’m not sure what your point is? My point is that it's easy to cherry pick the statistics to fit around the statement you're attempting to make. A bit like when Donald Trump pulls some carefully selected statistics to try and portray himself as the best president in history. Well the argument I was trying to make was that we didn’t grind our way to promotion but were one of the top scorers in the Championship. Which we were. I’m by no means a Pulis acolyte, I thought sacking him in 2013 was absolutely the right move. |
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Post by OldStokie on Oct 31, 2020 23:02:53 GMT
A good 7 from me. We needed that win today and he picked the right team to do it. The fact that the players made hard work of it wasn't his fault.
OS.
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Post by gawa on Oct 31, 2020 23:05:47 GMT
My point is that it's easy to cherry pick the statistics to fit around the statement you're attempting to make. A bit like when Donald Trump pulls some carefully selected statistics to try and portray himself as the best president in history. Well the argument I was trying to make was that we didn’t grind our way to promotion but were one of the top scorers in the Championship. Which we were. I’m by no means a Pulis acolyte, I thought sacking him in 2013 was absolutely the right move. True. Fair point mate!! I guess I'm just playing devil's advocate by trying to highlight that while the squad may not be as free scoring, from a defensive point of view they are tougher to beat in my opinion. It is still early days though. |
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Post by thehoof on Oct 31, 2020 23:40:20 GMT
7- picked a better team than Tuesday night; it will be interesting to see which players he rests for the Watford game.
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Post by staffordstokiemad1 on Nov 1, 2020 1:01:04 GMT
8
He picked his best team this time, so that deserves a decent score just on its own after the side he put out against Swansea.
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Post by march4 on Nov 1, 2020 12:06:18 GMT
After 9 games; MON 2020/21 - DLWDWDWLW. - 15pts TP 2007/08. - WWLDDDWDD - 14pts AD 1978/79. - - 18pts AW 1962/63. - LDLDDDWWW. - 13pts So, we are behind Durban but ahead of TP and Waddo |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 1, 2020 13:13:10 GMT
I agree with OS above - a 7 from me.
He picked a team and formation to win a game and we duly won it. There were certainly some below par performances from some of the players especially the forwards but I'm not sure we should blame MON for that unless it becomes a habit. If Fletcher and Campbell had played to anything like their ability we'd have won comfortably.
It is easy to forget that we have had a bit of an injury crisis in recent weeks - especially in defence - and to have to rejig the defence whilst playing a new keeper can't be easy. You didn't need to be a regular watcher of Stoke games to see that the defenders and the keeper need to get used to playing together.
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