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Post by s7oke on Sept 29, 2020 2:08:36 GMT
We've just got the balance wrong at the moment but I trust MON to work it out. He's an intelligent manager. Wouldn't be surprised if we add a more mobile CB if we can ship a few more out. Don't think he would of got Fox in if he was wedded to 352. Even if we lose one we don't need another CB, Collins/Batth are good enough back up as it stands. Chester should be the back up he’s got about as much movement as a dead trout in tittesworth reservoir.
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Post by upthefud on Sept 29, 2020 5:19:09 GMT
Please MON get us promoted.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 29, 2020 6:26:40 GMT
Even if we lose one we don't need another CB, Collins/Batth are good enough back up as it stands. Chester should be the back up he’s got about as much movement as a dead trout in tittesworth reservoir. Unfortunately MON seems to love him for some reason.
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Post by bgreen13 on Sept 29, 2020 7:22:50 GMT
How many seasons have we started off slowly? At least we've got off the mark points wise this time. The players will get into thier stride and if they don't we seem to (for once) have decent depth to our squad. Apart from at wing back which this set up relies heavily upon, we currently have none. I'm talking to everyone else. You've made your mind up.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Sept 29, 2020 7:59:31 GMT
....let's have a hexadecimal season - be more exciting
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 8:04:53 GMT
....let's have a hexadecimal season - be more exciting Now we're talking. '0B nil and you effed it up, 0B nil and you effed it up...'
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Post by mattface on Sept 29, 2020 14:24:38 GMT
A season of 1-0 victories would be awful 😉😉
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Post by petershiltonsmini on Sept 29, 2020 14:58:36 GMT
The end of last season would suggest anything but binary 🙄
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 29, 2020 17:02:10 GMT
Apart from at wing back which this set up relies heavily upon, we currently have none. I'm talking to everyone else. You've made your mind up. Awww unfortunately for you thats not how it works.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Sept 29, 2020 22:40:03 GMT
The end of last season would suggest anything but binary 🙄 But we're not in "last season" and the tactics and personnel have changed, so it appears has MON's approach to playing players in a position they're not entirely accustomed to. Gouranga.
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Post by markby on Sept 30, 2020 0:43:34 GMT
Whatever else, MON proved with NI that he's a pragmatist, rather than a dogmatist. He will select the teams/formations which he thinks best suit the players available to him and/or the opposition tactics.
It may be that he's settled upon 3-5-2 just now, because it suits his fittest/preferred players. Or, he's adopting a strategy to get the team off to a solid start (eg avoid defeat away from home?) before settling on a more adventurous strategy.
But if new players emerge (or are signed) who suit a different formation, and/or the results don't follow, then he'll change things around.
So give the guy a chance before writing him off - it's only 3 games in, for goodness sake.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 30, 2020 6:57:23 GMT
Whatever else, MON proved with NI that he's a pragmatist, rather than a dogmatist. He will select the teams/formations which he thinks best suit the players available to him and/or the opposition tactics. It may be that he's settled upon 3-5-2 just now, because it suits his fittest/preferred players. Or, he's adopting a strategy to get the team off to a solid start (eg avoid defeat away from home?) before settling on a more adventurous strategy. But if new players emerge (or are signed) who suit a different formation, and/or the results don't follow, then he'll change things around. So give the guy a chance before writing him off - it's only 3 games in, for goodness sake. I don't think anybody's written him off, but equally a lot us can't understand, especially given his preference for being an actual pragmatist in the truest sense of the word, why he appears to have dumped a system that was working for one which actually doesn't suit this squad. If it turns out he just wants to get them used to it so it becomes more natural as a Plan B away from home then great. If he starts using it regularly at home too then I'll be worried.
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Post by lordb on Sept 30, 2020 7:24:27 GMT
Whatever else, MON proved with NI that he's a pragmatist, rather than a dogmatist. He will select the teams/formations which he thinks best suit the players available to him and/or the opposition tactics. It may be that he's settled upon 3-5-2 just now, because it suits his fittest/preferred players. Or, he's adopting a strategy to get the team off to a solid start (eg avoid defeat away from home?) before settling on a more adventurous strategy. But if new players emerge (or are signed) who suit a different formation, and/or the results don't follow, then he'll change things around. So give the guy a chance before writing him off - it's only 3 games in, for goodness sake. I don't think anybody's written him off, but equally a lot us can't understand, especially given his preference for being an actual pragmatist in the truest sense of the word, why he appears to have dumped a system that was working for one which actually doesn't suit this squad. If it turns out he just wants to get them used to it so it becomes more natural as a Plan B away from home then great. If he starts using it regularly at home too then I'll be worried. It's really simple: O'Neill has repeatedly stated it's imperative we don't repeat the bad starts of the last two seasons so he is currently setting the side up to be solid at the back. 5 clean sheets in 6 games shows that in that sense it most definitely does suit the squad. Solid base to the season.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 30, 2020 7:30:14 GMT
Whatever else, MON proved with NI that he's a pragmatist, rather than a dogmatist. He will select the teams/formations which he thinks best suit the players available to him and/or the opposition tactics. It may be that he's settled upon 3-5-2 just now, because it suits his fittest/preferred players. Or, he's adopting a strategy to get the team off to a solid start (eg avoid defeat away from home?) before settling on a more adventurous strategy. But if new players emerge (or are signed) who suit a different formation, and/or the results don't follow, then he'll change things around. So give the guy a chance before writing him off - it's only 3 games in, for goodness sake. I don't think anybody's written him off, but equally a lot us can't understand, especially given his preference for being an actual pragmatist in the truest sense of the word, why he appears to have dumped a system that was working for one which actually doesn't suit this squad. If it turns out he just wants to get them used to it so it becomes more natural as a Plan B away from home then great. If he starts using it regularly at home too then I'll be worried. O'Neill said the team needed to get used to winning games by one goal and not expect to out score the opposition in a 4-3 thriller every game. Every really successful team starts out by being hard to beat and the best team's go on from there to regularly maul the opposition. We may well see some low scoring games as the team goes through the gears but there is a world of difference between getting the defensive side sorted with a view to evolving into a more attacking outfit once the the platform is in place (which is what I think O'Neill is doing) and setting up to be defensive as an end in itself (which is the way Pulis sets up his teams). I really don't think MON is setting up for a binary season and it's impossible to judge what the long term plan is after 3 games. It will be interesting to come back to this at Xmas.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 30, 2020 7:43:17 GMT
I don't think anybody's written him off, but equally a lot us can't understand, especially given his preference for being an actual pragmatist in the truest sense of the word, why he appears to have dumped a system that was working for one which actually doesn't suit this squad. If it turns out he just wants to get them used to it so it becomes more natural as a Plan B away from home then great. If he starts using it regularly at home too then I'll be worried. It's really simple: O'Neill has repeatedly stated it's imperative we don't repeat the bad starts of the last two seasons so he is currently setting the side up to be solid at the back. 5 clean sheets in 6 games shows that in that sense it most definitely does suit the squad. Solid base to the season. That's not really the full story though is it? Millwall away a solid point absolutely. Bristol City at home an unmitigated disaster. PNE owed an awful lot to the red card. Two clean sheets against duff opposition in a cup which has never meant less aren't really hear nor there, as impressive as the clean sheet and win at Wolves was. What isn't clear is why anything needed to change?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 30, 2020 7:45:48 GMT
I don't think anybody's written him off, but equally a lot us can't understand, especially given his preference for being an actual pragmatist in the truest sense of the word, why he appears to have dumped a system that was working for one which actually doesn't suit this squad. If it turns out he just wants to get them used to it so it becomes more natural as a Plan B away from home then great. If he starts using it regularly at home too then I'll be worried. O'Neill said the team needed to get used to winning games by one goal and not expect to out score the opposition in a 4-3 thriller every game. Every really successful team starts out by being hard to beat and the best team's go on from there to regularly maul the opposition. We may well see some low scoring games as the team goes through the gears but there is a world of difference between getting the defensive side sorted with a view to evolving into a more attacking outfit once the the platform is in place (which is what I think O'Neill is doing) and setting up to be defensive as an end in itself (which is the way Pulis sets up his teams). I really don't think MON is setting up for a binary season and it's impossible to judge what the long term plan is after 3 games. It will be interesting to come back to this at Xmas. We weren't winning games 4-3 though? We conceded four goals at home between New Year's Day and the end of the season playing the way we were, while scoring plenty ourselves? Why couldn't we just carry on doing what we were doing?
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Post by bgreen13 on Sept 30, 2020 7:48:19 GMT
Given the obsolute disastrous start to this season how long do you think the board will give him? He's certainly on borrowed time.
🤔
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Post by Davef on Sept 30, 2020 7:54:11 GMT
You'd rather have the utter rubbish we've been watching for the last 3 years than a binary season where we're actually winning games?! Do me a favour. We won 17 times in 2004/05, just over a third of our games. We won 16 games last season, 14 under O'Neill who took over at the beginning of November.
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Post by markby on Sept 30, 2020 9:12:00 GMT
That's not really the full story though is it? Millwall away a solid point absolutely. Bristol City at home an unmitigated disaster. PNE owed an awful lot to the red card. Two clean sheets against duff opposition in a cup which has never meant less aren't really hear nor there, as impressive as the clean sheet and win at Wolves was. What isn't clear is why anything needed to change?(To answer your question)
When he took over last season, it wasn't his team, the club was in a desperate position and he had the (unique) shutdown to cope with. Therefore the pragmatist in him was prepared to do whatever it took to get out of trouble.
But his objective this season is not merely to avoid relegation - this is a new season with new players and a new challenge (playoff push?) and you don't build the team to meet this new challenge overnight.
So just as the team which started this season is different from the one which finished last season, I suspect the one which finishes this season may be different again, with results in the meantime determining whether it is radically different or more a case of a few tweaks.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 30, 2020 9:14:32 GMT
That's not really the full story though is it? Millwall away a solid point absolutely. Bristol City at home an unmitigated disaster. PNE owed an awful lot to the red card. Two clean sheets against duff opposition in a cup which has never meant less aren't really hear nor there, as impressive as the clean sheet and win at Wolves was. What isn't clear is why anything needed to change?(To answer your question)
When he took over last season, it wasn't his team, the club was in a desperate position and he had the (unique) shutdown to cope with. Therefore the pragmatist in him was prepared to do whatever it took to get out of trouble. But his objective this season is not merely to avoid relegation - this is a new season with new players and a new challenge (playoff push?) and you don't build the team to meet this new challenge overnight. So just as the team which started this season is different from the one which finished last season, I suspect the one which finishes this season may be different again, with results in the meantime determining whether it is radically different or more a case of a few tweaks.
But it was better when he didn't have time, that's worrying isn't it? So far this season has been turgid, negative shite and it has to change.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 30, 2020 9:30:47 GMT
That's not really the full story though is it? Millwall away a solid point absolutely. Bristol City at home an unmitigated disaster. PNE owed an awful lot to the red card. Two clean sheets against duff opposition in a cup which has never meant less aren't really hear nor there, as impressive as the clean sheet and win at Wolves was. What isn't clear is why anything needed to change?(To answer your question)
When he took over last season, it wasn't his team, the club was in a desperate position and he had the (unique) shutdown to cope with. Therefore the pragmatist in him was prepared to do whatever it took to get out of trouble. But his objective this season is not merely to avoid relegation - this is a new season with new players and a new challenge (playoff push?) and you don't build the team to meet this new challenge overnight. So just as the team which started this season is different from the one which finished last season, I suspect the one which finishes this season may be different again, with results in the meantime determining whether it is radically different or more a case of a few tweaks.
Yet we're playing this season more like a team trying to scratch and claw enough points to stay up than last season, when there were plenty of goals in the team and the form book taken purely since he took over last season had us on the cusp of the play offs? In that context, this feels like an unnecessary, retrograde step?
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Post by femark on Sept 30, 2020 9:39:11 GMT
I hope MON is using the 5-3-2 system to get a solid base for the season and then start to move to a 4-3-3 as we gain a bit of confidence. If so I'm happy but if we stick with this system all season, we could be in for a very boring season.
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Post by markby on Sept 30, 2020 9:45:05 GMT
But it was better when he didn't have time, that's worrying isn't it? So far this season has been turgid, negative shite and it has to change. He met last season's challenge with one set of players/tactics.
The challenge this season is a different one, so is going to require different players/tactics.
Effecting that change is bound to take time, the point being that he's got that time this season.
May I respectfully suggest that you come back when this season is 23 games old, not 3?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 30, 2020 9:50:11 GMT
But it was better when he didn't have time, that's worrying isn't it? So far this season has been turgid, negative shite and it has to change. He met last season's challenge with one set of players/tactics. The challenge this season is a different one, so is going to require different players/tactics. Effecting that change is bound to take time, the point being that he's got that time this season. May I respectfully suggest that you come back when this season is 23 games old, not 3?
We just needed to get some better defensive players, not throw the baby out with the bath water. If we play this negatively but we've won all of them my attitude towards it won't have changed!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 30, 2020 9:50:59 GMT
But it was better when he didn't have time, that's worrying isn't it? So far this season has been turgid, negative shite and it has to change. He met last season's challenge with one set of players/tactics. The challenge this season is a different one, so is going to require different players/tactics. Effecting that change is bound to take time, the point being that he's got that time this season. May I respectfully suggest that you come back when this season is 23 games old, not 3?
The point is that nothing needed to change so drastically to meet this season's challenge though?
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Post by lordb on Sept 30, 2020 10:12:27 GMT
It's really simple: O'Neill has repeatedly stated it's imperative we don't repeat the bad starts of the last two seasons so he is currently setting the side up to be solid at the back. 5 clean sheets in 6 games shows that in that sense it most definitely does suit the squad. Solid base to the season. That's not really the full story though is it? Millwall away a solid point absolutely. Bristol City at home an unmitigated disaster. PNE owed an awful lot to the red card. Two clean sheets against duff opposition in a cup which has never meant less aren't really hear nor there, as impressive as the clean sheet and win at Wolves was. What isn't clear is why anything needed to change? what need to change was the awful start of the last two seasons , the manager has said this numerous times 5 clean sheets in 6 games is evidence enough that he's opted for a defensive start to the season & that's all it is, a start to the season he's not Tony Pulis we will not be playing defensively for months on end, i.e. it is not Binary mark 2
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 30, 2020 10:19:06 GMT
That's not really the full story though is it? Millwall away a solid point absolutely. Bristol City at home an unmitigated disaster. PNE owed an awful lot to the red card. Two clean sheets against duff opposition in a cup which has never meant less aren't really hear nor there, as impressive as the clean sheet and win at Wolves was. What isn't clear is why anything needed to change? what need to change was the awful start of the last two seasons , the manager has said this numerous times 5 clean sheets in 6 games is evidence enough that he's opted for a defensive start to the season & that's all it is, a start to the season he's not Tony Pulis we will not be playing defensively for months on end, i.e. it is not Binary mark 2 How do you know he won't?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 30, 2020 10:20:09 GMT
That's not really the full story though is it? Millwall away a solid point absolutely. Bristol City at home an unmitigated disaster. PNE owed an awful lot to the red card. Two clean sheets against duff opposition in a cup which has never meant less aren't really hear nor there, as impressive as the clean sheet and win at Wolves was. What isn't clear is why anything needed to change? what need to change was the awful start of the last two seasons , the manager has said this numerous times 5 clean sheets in 6 games is evidence enough that he's opted for a defensive start to the season & that's all it is, a start to the season he's not Tony Pulis we will not be playing defensively for months on end, i.e. it is not Binary mark 2 So if we'd kept things the same, we risked starting the season poorly, just because we had the last two seasons with two completely different managers in different circumstances? I don't follow, sorry.
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Post by markby on Sept 30, 2020 15:51:19 GMT
So while MON is talking in terms of "4 or 5 transfer windows" (A.Villa presser), some people on here are talking more in terms of "4 or 5 games". (Or "gheeaymes" as the man himself would say)
Trust in Michael and you can't go wrong!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 30, 2020 15:54:14 GMT
So while MON is talking in terms of "4 or 5 transfer windows" (A.Villa presser), some people on here are talking more in terms of "4 or 5 games". (Or "gheeaymes" as the man himself would say) Trust in Michael and you can't go wrong! Of course he's going to down play what he's got. We've got a team that could push for the play offs if used correctly imo. And also this long term plan doesn't seem to make sense with the Mikel and Fletcher signings? Why sign them if you don't think they'll get you to what we should be aiming for now? They're not going to much use past this season.
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