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Post by mermaidsal on Sept 14, 2020 16:34:50 GMT
7 I think MON was experimenting a bit to see if he can make us hard to beat away from home. JOB DONE on that front most definitely it seems like. We know MON can play attacking football when he wants to - we scored loads last season under him. Its good when a manager can nullify the opposition with his tactics. Next week we need to see him open up more and be more attacking at home. 'nullify', I love that word if we're hearing that every week, we're in business again, finally
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Post by potterburt on Sept 14, 2020 17:02:47 GMT
We’re already 2pts off the pace. Extrapolate that over a season and that leaves us 92pts behind. I can’t even give him a score I’m so angry. I have been pondering this question for some time. People seem to fall into two camps when it comes to draws. One camp looks at a draw as a point gained and the other camp looks at a draw as two points lost. I have a theory that the difference depends on how you look at the season as a whole, the number of points available and expectations. I expect to be promoted and as a result I look at a 46 game season as starting with 138 points and counting down, rather than starting with zero and counting up. Every loss is minus 3 and every draw is minus 2. To hell with the plan that the goal is to first achieve 50 points to avoid relegation. If that’s the plan you’ve already accepted you have 88 points you can afford to give up. I realize it’s unrealistic to think we’ll never drop a point, but this is the only way to look at it. I want the manager and the players to go into every match with the attitude these three points are mine and we plan to keep them. Even if we are playing the best team in the world, I want the manager and the players to go into every game with a plan to win. I don’t want them to ever go into a game playing for a draw, because they will look at a draw as success and start two points down before a ball is even kicked. Of course you don’t line up against Liverpool expecting to dominate the game, but you should go into the game, scrapping for every ball, and let them know you have just as much right to be there as they do. The plan may be to sit back, frustrate the opposition and look for chance to hit them on the counter. But the plan should always be to win rather than avoid a loss or playing for a draw. A few years ago I think it was David Moyes who admitted on camera hat he expected a relegation battle and that’s exactly what he got. Even if you know you’re in for a tough battle you should never give the impression there’s any chance you might lose it. I don’t know any successful business that plans to meet expectations. The goal should always be to smash them. Small teams in small markets, like Stoke, can make it to the top only if they believe it’s possible. Leicester did it and so we can we. I’d rather give it a go and lose 4-3 like Leeds did today against Liverpool, than scratch out a 0-0 draw. It’s a lot more fun to watch too. Not sure I agree with ‘2 camps’, I would consider myself to fall into the camp of taking into consideration the other team, our form, what players we have and sometimes just bad luck. I would much prefer a dreary 1pt away at Millwall (usually dreary there anyway and especially with Rowett) - this is the sort of approach and footy that got us promoted for the first time in eons. A gung-ho 4-3 like Leeds is yes, great to watch and I liked that they really took it to Liverpool but I’m sure Leeds would have bitten an arm off at getting a 0-0 draw instead. You do say the above as if you know verbatim that we didn’t ‘go for it’ and that we actively plaid for a draw? Could it be that the players were going for it but the level of Stoke is actually that a 0-0 is a good away result at Millwall? I agree no business wants To solely ‘meet’ expectations - however reality is is that some only just scrape expectations and lots fall below expectations. We chucked young brown and fletch on at the end to try and get the win, it didn’t happen, oh well. Also factoring in our usual terrible start to seasons, our past 4 years of negative mentality and underperformance and that for me is a good solid start, foundations built to give confidence in getting all those other points you mentioned.
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Post by kustokie on Sept 14, 2020 19:17:59 GMT
I have been pondering this question for some time. People seem to fall into two camps when it comes to draws. One camp looks at a draw as a point gained and the other camp looks at a draw as two points lost. I have a theory that the difference depends on how you look at the season as a whole, the number of points available and expectations. I expect to be promoted and as a result I look at a 46 game season as starting with 138 points and counting down, rather than starting with zero and counting up. Every loss is minus 3 and every draw is minus 2. To hell with the plan that the goal is to first achieve 50 points to avoid relegation. If that’s the plan you’ve already accepted you have 88 points you can afford to give up. I realize it’s unrealistic to think we’ll never drop a point, but this is the only way to look at it. I want the manager and the players to go into every match with the attitude these three points are mine and we plan to keep them. Even if we are playing the best team in the world, I want the manager and the players to go into every game with a plan to win. I don’t want them to ever go into a game playing for a draw, because they will look at a draw as success and start two points down before a ball is even kicked. Of course you don’t line up against Liverpool expecting to dominate the game, but you should go into the game, scrapping for every ball, and let them know you have just as much right to be there as they do. The plan may be to sit back, frustrate the opposition and look for chance to hit them on the counter. But the plan should always be to win rather than avoid a loss or playing for a draw. A few years ago I think it was David Moyes who admitted on camera hat he expected a relegation battle and that’s exactly what he got. Even if you know you’re in for a tough battle you should never give the impression there’s any chance you might lose it. I don’t know any successful business that plans to meet expectations. The goal should always be to smash them. Small teams in small markets, like Stoke, can make it to the top only if they believe it’s possible. Leicester did it and so we can we. I’d rather give it a go and lose 4-3 like Leeds did today against Liverpool, than scratch out a 0-0 draw. It’s a lot more fun to watch too. I think firstly you have to accept that draws are good, overall. Very few teams win half their games in a season so you’ve got to accept that in at least 50% of games, you’re not going to win. Last season only 3 teams won at least 50% of their games, and two of those were promoted. The third, Brentford, lost far too many games (13), and had they turned just two of those defeats into draws, they would’ve been promoted at the expense of WBA. A draw at Millwall is a good result... gets us off the mark and it stops an opponent from getting 3pts. It’s a tough place to go so we’ve got to see it as a positive. You just made my point. You’re in the 1/3 full camp, I am in the 2/3 empty one. Draws are bad. If you believe a draw is acceptable you’re admitting defeat and you’ll be in relegation-fighting mode all season. Start the way you mean to finish. An away draw against a mid-table team in my opinion is a slow start. I want us to come flying out of the blocks, not limping out two points back after one game. Millwall is only a tough place to go if you think that way. A team with ambition should go into a game against a mediocre team like Millwall with the sole objective of smashing them to pieces. Home or away. In fact saying Millwall are mediocre is generous - we made them look poor and we should have won easily. Anything less and we are essentially saying we are mediocre too. There is no reason we can’t go into every game in this league expecting to win. We have good players and an experienced manager who knows what he’s doing. There are a few gaps in the squad but we are nowhere as badly organized as we were 12 months ago.
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Post by wakeypotter on Sept 14, 2020 19:48:28 GMT
Leeds and West Brom didn’t go away from home last year and play for the draw. If you want to get out of this league we have to be attacking and going for a win. I like O’Neil but sometimes he is too defensive.
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Post by markby on Sept 14, 2020 22:24:28 GMT
SAT 26 Oct 2019 EFL Championship Millwall 2 Stoke City 0 Thompson (28' minutes), Wallace (75' minutes pen) In what was Rowett's first game in charge of Millwall, Stoke had 59% Possession but managed just 4 shots, with only 1 of them on target. Stoke City manager Nathan Jones told BBC Radio Stoke afterwards: "We were extremely poor. We were outbattled, outworked and outthought, and didn't do the basics well enough.
"We didn't pass it well enough, we didn't fight, we didn't have enough heart about us, didn't have enough work rate, and that's not something I can say often about this group.
"In the second half, we controlled the game far more than we did first half but the naivety we showed in letting Jed Wallace run from his own half to go past three players to get into our box summed us up today. Not good enough."www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50105995
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