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Post by biglad180 on Sept 9, 2020 15:41:27 GMT
i think it would have been better news if it had have been Denise Coates who had been given the job, think between them jon and tony scholes have very little idea,
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 9, 2020 15:41:32 GMT
Why cant people vent their anger at the waste of fuckin spaces that have been kicking the ball for the failure of the club and the managers that have signed them. Scholes is an accountant by trade , paid handsomely for running the club from a financial point of view. Do you think that a multi millionaire like Uncle Peter would pay him if he was that bad? Do you think Scholes appointed Jones,Rowett etc. I very much doubt it. Easy Target I suppose. He's a director he has a say on who is appointed manager, as for financially we are in a perilous position Scholes negotiates the players contracts perhaps if he was any good at his job he might have noticed that we were in danger of breaking FFP rules ! he also carries out due diligence on the waste of space transfers before we sign them is that hard to understand. |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Sept 9, 2020 15:43:21 GMT
Makes sense Jon taking over.
But can't see the sence in keeping Scholes on.
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Post by mattyd2 on Sept 9, 2020 16:04:26 GMT
Makes sense Jon taking over. But can't see the sence in keeping Scholes on. The Coates Family certainly do not suffer fools, and I'm quite sure if they doubted his ability and commitment they would have got rid, so maybe, just maybe he is doing a good job and is carrying out their wishes in returning a healthy balance sheet... |
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Post by lordb on Sept 9, 2020 16:11:18 GMT
Makes sense Jon taking over. But can't see the sence in keeping Scholes on. The Coates Family certainly do not suffer fools, and I'm quite sure if they doubted his ability and commitment they would have got rid, so maybe, just maybe he is doing a good job and is carrying out their wishes in returning a healthy balance sheet... Scholes comes across as a nice chap & he does get stuff right at times - even the occasional transfer & contract negotiations however PC (& presumably JC) absolute stubborn streak is the reason they wont get rid of him, 'refusing to bow to supporter pressure' if he did leave would he get another job as CEO at another football club with the same/similar or higher profile than Stoke? having said all that it never ceases to baffle me how so many (well all of them at times) clubs make lazy arse appointments |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 9, 2020 16:29:35 GMT
Malcolm That’s an apologist view , name another business where the non executive directors accept the accountability for the management failures of their chief executive and executive directors at best in the banking world chairman have resigned after firing the CEO for poor performance , clearly that’s not going to happen here , but the principal is the chief executive is responsible and accountable and judged by business performance . In this case it’s just his good luck that his non execs and shareholders are a tight non challenging group prepared to accept systematic and sustained business under performance and the waste of shareholder support and resources . Whichever way you cut it the business had performed appallingly and he is the executive responsible by the hand of his fellow board members who pay him extraordinarily handsomely to manage it It's not an apologist view, it's a factual statement of the position. You have a view that the Board should sack their CEO. Whether or not that is an informed and reasonable view, you cannot deny the owners role, responsibility and accountability for the running of the club and your statement "So that’s the end of that the accountability sits with Scholes end of" is at best a gross over-simplification. Malcom what interpretation In terms of Scholes accountability do you prefer on the basis of the boards statement today he id responsible for all football matters as for me it’s pretty clear He’s responsible for all football matters and therefore accountable for them good bad or indifferent but if it means something different the statement should be amended or the explanation given , I hasten to add I think it’s clear as day he’s responsible and therefore accountable for all football matters |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Sept 9, 2020 16:44:43 GMT
It's not an apologist view, it's a factual statement of the position. You have a view that the Board should sack their CEO. Whether or not that is an informed and reasonable view, you cannot deny the owners role, responsibility and accountability for the running of the club and your statement "So that’s the end of that the accountability sits with Scholes end of" is at best a gross over-simplification. Malcom what interpretation In terms of Scholes accountability do you prefer on the basis of the boards statement today he id responsible for all football matters as for me it’s pretty clear He’s responsible for all football matters and therefore accountable for them good bad or indifferent but if it means something different the statement should be amended or the explanation given , I hasten to add I think it’s clear as day he’s responsible and therefore accountable for all football matters We are just going round in circles here. Yes, the statement says he is the executive responsible for all football matters. He is accountable, of course he is, like all CEOs, to the Board i.e the owners. You obviously think they should sack him, which I'm sure they would if they shared your view of his competence as CEO of the Company they own. But what you can't do is pretend that the buck doesn't stop with them. And they've not exactly got a bad record of running businesses. |
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Post by chiswickpotter on Sept 9, 2020 16:50:20 GMT
Malcom what interpretation In terms of Scholes accountability do you prefer on the basis of the boards statement today he id responsible for all football matters as for me it’s pretty clear He’s responsible for all football matters and therefore accountable for them good bad or indifferent but if it means something different the statement should be amended or the explanation given , I hasten to add I think it’s clear as day he’s responsible and therefore accountable for all football matters We are just going round in circles here. Yes, the statement says he is the executive responsible for all football matters. He is accountable, of course he is, like all CEOs, to the Board i.e the owners. You obviously think they should sack him, which I'm sure they would if they shared your view of his competence as CEO of the Company they own. But what you can't do is pretend that the buck doesn't stop with them. And they've not exactly got a bad record of running businesses. Spot on. 10 successive years in the Premier League was a huge achievement, very few team outside the Big 6 and Everton have managed that in recent times |
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Post by localloser on Sept 9, 2020 16:54:17 GMT
Daddy taken his toys away.......... More like Daddy recognising that he is not getting any younger and wishes to lighten his workload in preparation for a full hand over to Jon in the not too distant future. I don't blame him. Peter is a good few years older than me and I wouldn't want the responsibility of chairing a football club at his age. In terms of "toys" it makes little difference. The pecking order at bet365 who own the club is what it has always been; Denise is top dog with over 50% of the shares, then Jon, with Peter well down the pecking order in wealth terms. It strikes me as little more than a legal device so that John's signature is as valid as Peter's if big decisions have to be made in the event that Peter is unavailable for any reason. And as others have said, when the inevitable happens and Peter decides he can no longer carry on, the transkition is very smooth with no legal hassles in the way. It's not too different from the lasting power of attorney that my wife and I have for my mother in law. And it certainly appears that the family are intending to carry on running the club.  |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 9, 2020 17:55:58 GMT
Malcom what interpretation In terms of Scholes accountability do you prefer on the basis of the boards statement today he id responsible for all football matters as for me it’s pretty clear He’s responsible for all football matters and therefore accountable for them good bad or indifferent but if it means something different the statement should be amended or the explanation given , I hasten to add I think it’s clear as day he’s responsible and therefore accountable for all football matters We are just going round in circles here. Yes, the statement says he is the executive responsible for all football matters. He is accountable, of course he is, like all CEOs, to the Board i.e the owners. You obviously think they should sack him, which I'm sure they would if they shared your view of his competence as CEO of the Company they own. But what you can't do is pretend that the buck doesn't stop with them. And they've not exactly got a bad record of running businesses. Malcolm we will never agree on that basis , I’m a unconditional supporter of the owners and feel their loyalty and support has Been wasted by appalling executive management from recruitment ,asset management , culture , onlIne , match day experience , retail not one could be described as class leading or even competent and yet we’ve owners who could not be more supportive. The owners loyalty or class leading managing up don’t change the point that’s we’ve wasted the golden opportunity of our history and today are back where we were before promotion only this time at the mercy of FFP which is being used as another deflection when actually wev3 bought the constraints in us about by our own gross incompetence . |
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Post by Sfance on Sept 9, 2020 18:26:28 GMT
Heaven help us. Coates jr. and Scholes are clearly not able to.
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Post by miggoscfc on Sept 9, 2020 18:26:48 GMT
I suppose its an odd timing but its well known that JC has been running the club for near on 5 years already if I remember correctly Peter even made a statement about how John would be taking a more senior role back then.
Its great that the family are commited and this announcement solidifies that somewhat however if the last 5 years was an apprenticeship it has failed miserably and shows we have learned no lessons. JC has been his fathers lacky his entire life, as far as I am aware he has never worked in a position that was not handed to him by Peter and then Denise and that makes me nervous especially as he has been a fan of the club his entire life, not a terrible thing of course but I always saw Peter as a business man first and that led me to believe he made sound business decisions at the cost of emotional decisions that were perhaps not right for the club.
I think the Nathan Jones appointmemt by a mate whispering in his ear in a pub kind of showed how badly his decision making can be, that story on the back of failure should have never gone public but he tells the exact group of people he doesnt need to upset the fans to try and make him look like one of us. He is not and should not be in his position.
If I am honest I am nervous with him leading the club forward especially given no real changes have happened below to support the structure. I have not seen anything he offers other than the continuation of the boys club In himself, Richard and Scholes, what do they offer ither than the familys wealth?
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Post by Sfance on Sept 9, 2020 18:27:13 GMT
It's a case of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts - only in this case, that's really not a good thing.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Sept 9, 2020 18:30:47 GMT
We are just going round in circles here. Yes, the statement says he is the executive responsible for all football matters. He is accountable, of course he is, like all CEOs, to the Board i.e the owners. You obviously think they should sack him, which I'm sure they would if they shared your view of his competence as CEO of the Company they own. But what you can't do is pretend that the buck doesn't stop with them. And they've not exactly got a bad record of running businesses. Malcolm we will never agree on that basis , I’m a unconditional supporter of the owners and feel their loyalty and support has Been wasted by appalling executive management from recruitment ,asset management , culture , onlIne , match day experience , retail not one could be described as class leading or even competent and yet we’ve owners who could not be more supportive. The owners loyalty or class leading managing up don’t change the point that’s we’ve wasted the golden opportunity of our history and today are back where we were before promotion only this time at the mercy of FFP which is being used as another deflection when actually wev3 bought the constraints in us about by our own gross incompetence . If you think that the club is as grossly incompetently run as you say it is, and that is down to the CEO, then you are in fact saying that the owners are incompetent for not dismissing him. And yet you say you are an unconditional supporter of them. It's a contradiction. I don't agree with you about the club, but that's not the point we are discussing. |
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Post by colnepotter on Sept 9, 2020 18:40:27 GMT
Didn't we know that already? To be honest I think Scholes is poor at (not all) non football matters too He’s shit at everything judging by business performance except managing up , no other ceo would have survived such appalling performance it’s a triumph of managing up and deflecting accountability. Oh dear. Perhaps we should look at the club he joined in 2004 compared to what it is now. Or is that too intellectually challenging for a half wit like your? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 18:47:21 GMT
More like Daddy recognising that he is not getting any younger and wishes to lighten his workload in preparation for a full hand over to Jon in the not too distant future. I don't blame him. Peter is a good few years older than me and I wouldn't want the responsibility of chairing a football club at his age. In terms of "toys" it makes little difference. The pecking order at bet365 who own the club is what it has always been; Denise is top dog with over 50% of the shares, then Jon, with Peter well down the pecking order in wealth terms. Had this happened in all but name during the "dont know what the fuss is about" saga? John has shown himself not up to the job with our decline when Peter stepped back. He appointed Michael O’Neill and yet you say he’s not up to the job? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 18:50:44 GMT
Why cant people vent their anger at the waste of fuckin spaces that have been kicking the ball for the failure of the club and the managers that have signed them. Scholes is an accountant by trade , paid handsomely for running the club from a financial point of view. Do you think that a multi millionaire like Uncle Peter would pay him if he was that bad? Do you think Scholes appointed Jones,Rowett etc. I very much doubt it. Easy Target I suppose. He's a director he has a say on who is appointed manager, as for financially we are in a perilous position Scholes negotiates the players contracts perhaps if he was any good at his job he might have noticed that we were in danger of breaking FFP rules ! he also carries out due diligence on the waste of space transfers before we sign them is that hard to understand. He supervises the due dilligence as he is ceo, but the actual scouting is performed by our vast array of scouts, most of whom we dont know the names of. |
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Post by colnepotter on Sept 9, 2020 18:58:20 GMT
Malcolm we will never agree on that basis , I’m a unconditional supporter of the owners and feel their loyalty and support has Been wasted by appalling executive management from recruitment ,asset management , culture , onlIne , match day experience , retail not one could be described as class leading or even competent and yet we’ve owners who could not be more supportive. The owners loyalty or class leading managing up don’t change the point that’s we’ve wasted the golden opportunity of our history and today are back where we were before promotion only this time at the mercy of FFP which is being used as another deflection when actually wev3 bought the constraints in us about by our own gross incompetence . If you think that the club is as grossly incompetently run as you say it is, and that is down to the CEO, then you are in fact saying that the owners are incompetent for not dismissing him. And yet you say you are an unconditional supporter of them. It's a contradiction. I don't agree with you about the club, but that's not the point we are discussing. Well said Malcolm. Your average cocker spaniel has a higher IQ than this so called supporter, so don't take it too hard! |
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 9, 2020 19:12:41 GMT
He's a director he has a say on who is appointed manager, as for financially we are in a perilous position Scholes negotiates the players contracts perhaps if he was any good at his job he might have noticed that we were in danger of breaking FFP rules ! he also carries out due diligence on the waste of space transfers before we sign them is that hard to understand. He supervises the due dilligence as he is ceo, but the actual scouting is performed by our vast array of scouts, most of whom we dont know the names of. You can't delegate responsibility and that ultimately lies at his door as CEO, as does the responsibility for contract negotiations which have in the main been piss poor whichever way you try to spin it. |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 9, 2020 19:57:45 GMT
If you think that the club is as grossly incompetently run as you say it is, and that is down to the CEO, then you are in fact saying that the owners are incompetent for not dismissing him. And yet you say you are an unconditional supporter of them. It's a contradiction. I don't agree with you about the club, but that's not the point we are discussing. Well said Malcolm. Your average cocker spaniel has a higher IQ than this so called supporter, so don't take it too hard! Nice to seen your high intellect used to add value to a coherent and respectful discussion . |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 9, 2020 20:02:01 GMT
Malcolm we will never agree on that basis , I’m a unconditional supporter of the owners and feel their loyalty and support has Been wasted by appalling executive management from recruitment ,asset management , culture , onlIne , match day experience , retail not one could be described as class leading or even competent and yet we’ve owners who could not be more supportive. The owners loyalty or class leading managing up don’t change the point that’s we’ve wasted the golden opportunity of our history and today are back where we were before promotion only this time at the mercy of FFP which is being used as another deflection when actually wev3 bought the constraints in us about by our own gross incompetence . If you think that the club is as grossly incompetently run as you say it is, and that is down to the CEO, then you are in fact saying that the owners are incompetent for not dismissing him. And yet you say you are an unconditional supporter of them. It's a contradiction. I don't agree with you about the club, but that's not the point we are discussing. Agree it’s a known and admirable character trait that they are very loyal to the people who work for them and there are many examples where that’s nothing but admirable , but in this case the evidence (in what I hasten to add is a long held but personal view) suggests they can’t see the wood for the trees or don’t want to .ultimately today intentional or not ( perhaps it is) they’ve put the role firmly in context and removed any he just counts the money smoke screen |
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Post by colnepotter on Sept 9, 2020 20:23:35 GMT
If you think that the club is as grossly incompetently run as you say it is, and that is down to the CEO, then you are in fact saying that the owners are incompetent for not dismissing him. And yet you say you are an unconditional supporter of them. It's a contradiction. I don't agree with you about the club, but that's not the point we are discussing. Agree it’s a known and admirable character trait that they are very loyal to the people who work for them and there are many examples where that’s nothing but admirable , but in this case the evidence (in what I hasten to add is a long held but personal view) suggests they can’t see the wood for the trees or don’t want to .ultimately today intentional or not ( perhaps it is) they’ve put the role firmly in context and removed any he just counts the money smoke screen Strewth!! |
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Post by eddyclamp on Sept 10, 2020 9:35:32 GMT
Why cant people vent their anger at the waste of fuckin spaces that have been kicking the ball for the failure of the club and the managers that have signed them. Scholes is an accountant by trade , paid handsomely for running the club from a financial point of view. Do you think that a multi millionaire like Uncle Peter would pay him if he was that bad? Do you think Scholes appointed Jones,Rowett etc. I very much doubt it. Easy Target I suppose. He's a director he has a say on who is appointed manager, as for financially we are in a perilous position Scholes negotiates the players contracts perhaps if he was any good at his job he might have noticed that we were in danger of breaking FFP rules ! he also carries out due diligence on the waste of space transfers before we sign them is that hard to understand. How much of a say does he have regarding appointing a manager? Would you put your head out of the nest and say we should appoint xyz and then see them fail? I believe the family decide on the manager. As for Scholes negotiating contracts etc. he will have input that`s his job, it`s number crunching. He will have a budget for each season to work with. Relegation from the prem meant moving the goal posts very quickly to comply with ffp. Uncle peter has always said that the manager picks the players he wants. So that rules Scholes out, he just sees what impact that will have on the budget. A few years back under Pulis we were looked upon as being one of the best run clubs in the country. A template for all clubs aspiring to play in the premier league. Dire football decisions have put us where we are not Scholes. He is accountable to the family ,they employ him. If they are not happy they will deal with it , and, as he is in employment we must assume they are. |
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Post by thevoid on Sept 10, 2020 9:40:09 GMT
That twat must have some tasty photographs of someone to remain in situ 😡 |
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Post by Gifton on Sept 10, 2020 13:11:58 GMT
Dreading the day Peter completely steps aside to be honest. John strikes me as being very much the runt of the litter and would be lucky to keep a job stacking shelves had he been born into another family.
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