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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 9:57:52 GMT
With a line finally drawn under this year's prem season
The two teams with the two best squads came first and second ( unsurprisingly) but beyond that ...
Chelsea went for an English manager and outperformed spurs and arsenal
Brendan Rodgers did well at Leicester
Roy hodgson , Steve Bruce , Graham potter , Dean Smith and Nigel Pearson ,Chris wilder and Sean dysche all had outstanding seasons
Nobody will ever know why Watford sacked there English manager , but that's their choice .
The only English manager to ' under perform' was Eddie Howe .Though he still took Bournemouth from bottom of league 2 on minus 15 points to relegation from the prem .And arguably most teams at the bottom of league 2 would be happy with that.
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Post by Somebody_Told_Me on Jul 27, 2020 10:02:45 GMT
No but they sound more exotic, so you'll get alot more credit with the media, and if you have a British manager with a Northern or working class accent, be happy wth all the stereotypes coming your way.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 10:15:59 GMT
I mean on the whole I'd say absolutely, other than Fergie I can barely think of any top level British manager in modern football.
As for why that is, who knows. My feeling is that you have a lot which are played the more 'traditional' British game, and perhaps aren't as tactically focused or aware. This is from a low level too, you read about our academies focusing on physicality speed and strength whereas clubs like Barcelona often don't use age groups for their young players and instead match them on their physicality so they are forced to develop their technical skills which we seemed to have had less of a focus on. Alonso talked about the dressing room at Liverpool I believe and spoke about how the British players had little interest or real understanding of the more tactical side of the game whereas the continental contingent would talk about 'football' over like tits and drinking.
I guess overall I'd say the footballing cultures are quite different. With all that being said however, things are changing and you look at the young British managers like Potter and Jones and even if the latter was appalling he clearly thinks about the game tactically and isn't your stereotypical footballing dinosaur ala Bruce, Pulis and Allardyce.
Also as a side note, so many primadonnas in the game nowadays man management is more important than ever and players seem more likely to down tools and have more power over their manager than previously which is another reason why the pragmatic stuff seems less successful now.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 27, 2020 10:23:58 GMT
Depends what you class as foreign too. There's obviously going to be more competition with other countries and more chances of finding a successful manager when comparing to just the British Isles.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 27, 2020 10:43:04 GMT
How many British coaches are managing top foreign clubs?
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Post by westgatelakes on Jul 27, 2020 10:49:13 GMT
The game has changed that much that a lot of the work that football managers used to do is now undertaken by Directors of Football, Chief Executives etc, with `Managers` being left to coach, mentor, man-manage and deal with the tactical side of things.
It does seem that foreign managers have been more successful than British Managers since Fergie retired but it doesn`t half help to be at the richest clubs which tend to attract the best footballers in the world.
Good recruitment, in my opinion, is the most important prerequisite to being a successful manager.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 27, 2020 10:54:08 GMT
For years the standard of training for continental coaches was way ahead of what was going on in Britain where to a large extent managers were just ex pros thrown in at the deep end to make it up as they went along. The gap has definitely narrowed and British managers have far more tactical nous than was the case even 10 years ago. However it's a numbers game - there are far more foreign managers than British managers so statistically the 20 best clubs in Britain would have more foreign managers than British managers and this season is a bit of an outlier.
I think the standard of British managers (and players) would improve no end if more learned their trade overseas - Graham Potter has leap frogged a number of his contemporaries by taking that route.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 10:55:24 GMT
I guess it depends on what you are most impressed by in a manager.
I think Roy hodgson , Chris wilder and Sean dysche have massively outperformed and I personally think that makes them the outstanding managers in the league .
Someone else will say it's all about winning silverware and on that basis klopp and pep are the best managers
That's a valid opinion ,but I think it ignores the fact , they have the best squads and the most money.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 27, 2020 11:29:33 GMT
Yes.
What top class English managers are there? There isn't one.
It's why the argument about more BAME coaches annoys me tbh. It seems to take away the focus that actually in this country we need more good managers/coaches whatever their colour/gender. I think there's a total under representation of English managers in the top echelons of the sport and it's something the FA should be not ashamed of but definitely critical of themselves for. And actually it should be a thing that goes in hand in hand, the push for more BAME coaches and more coaches in general and teaching them to a better standard.
Who's the best English around at the minute? Wilder or Dyche. They've done well but would a bigger club go for either? I don't think so and I don't blame those clubs tbh.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 27, 2020 11:43:08 GMT
It's all easy when there is no expectation other than to 'survive'. It's why the likes of Hodgson failed when they got their chance at a top club.
Lampard has done an amazing job at a notoriously difficult club to manage but it will be interesting to see how he does now they can spend money again. He has made though what looks to be decent signings so far, on paper. It also helps that he 'knows' the club.
Wilder and Dyche? Will never manage a top four side.
Bruce has done decent at Newcastle.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 27, 2020 11:46:45 GMT
It's all easy when there is no expectation other than to 'survive'. It's why the likes of Hodgson failed when they got their chance at a top club. Lampard has done an amazing job at a notoriously difficult club to manage but it will be interesting to see how he does now they can spend money again. He has made though what looks to be decent signings so far, on paper. It also helps that he 'knows' the club. Wilder and Dyche? Will never manage a top four side. Bruce has done decent at Newcastle. I completely forgot about Lampard. He’s done excellently and has been a refreshing change to the norm. Just got to hope that he keeps using their academy even now they can spend because if they do it will help both Chelsea (not arsed) and more importantly England. |
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Post by Cast no shadow on Jul 27, 2020 12:11:41 GMT
It's all easy when there is no expectation other than to 'survive'. It's why the likes of Hodgson failed when they got their chance at a top club. Lampard has done an amazing job at a notoriously difficult club to manage but it will be interesting to see how he does now they can spend money again. He has made though what looks to be decent signings so far, on paper. It also helps that he 'knows' the club. Wilder and Dyche? Will never manage a top four side. Bruce has done decent at Newcastle. I completely forgot about Lampard. He’s done excellently and has been a refreshing change to the norm. Just got to hope that he keeps using their academy even now they can spend because if they do it will help both Chelsea (not arsed) and more importantly England. Other than 15/16 season(Leicester winning league) , 66pts wouldn't have got you in the top 4 in the last 15 seasons. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 27, 2020 12:26:48 GMT
I completely forgot about Lampard. He’s done excellently and has been a refreshing change to the norm. Just got to hope that he keeps using their academy even now they can spend because if they do it will help both Chelsea (not arsed) and more importantly England. Other than 15/16 season(Leicester winning league) , 66pts wouldn't have got you in the top 4 in the last 15 seasons. He’s still done well. And a lot better than I suspect people like you would like if that comment is anything to go by  He’s still learning for sure but he’s done well. He needs to sign a keeper and a better striker. |
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Post by Cast no shadow on Jul 27, 2020 12:41:48 GMT
Other than 15/16 season(Leicester winning league) , 66pts wouldn't have got you in the top 4 in the last 15 seasons. He’s still done well. And a lot better than I suspect people like you would like if that comment is anything to go by He’s still learning for sure but he’s done well. He needs to sign a keeper and a better striker. No, not at all, Ive always liked Frank, apart from when he was at Derby last year, I was just putting it into context in comparison to other seasons, same for man utd. Other than l'pool, sheff utd, wolves don't think many would be raving about their season. I mean even Man City lost 9 games. His Uncle Harry was the last English manager lift the cup in 08 with pompey hopefully Frank can replicate that, he'll only be 2nd in 25 years to do so. He's only been managing for 2 seasons, he'll have a lot learn but he's a clever bloke I wish him well (especially on Saturday) |
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Post by lagwafis on Jul 27, 2020 12:46:03 GMT
Premier League titles won by country since 1992
Scotland 14 (Ferguson x 13, Dalglish x 1)
Italy 4 (Ancelotti x 1, Conte x 1, Mancini x 1, Ranieri x1)
France 3 (Wanker x 3)
Portugal 3 (Mourinho x3)
Spain 2 (Guardiola x2)
Germany 1 (Klopp x1)
Chile 1 (Pellegrini x1)
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Post by Gods on Jul 27, 2020 12:51:57 GMT
I've often wondered could Pep have kept TP's Stoke team in the Prem in that first crazy season ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 12:57:04 GMT
With a line finally drawn under this year's prem season The two teams with the two best squads came first and second ( unsurprisingly) but beyond that ... Chelsea went for an English manager and outperformed spurs and arsenal Brendan Rodgers did well at Leicester Roy hodgson , Steve Bruce , Graham potter , Dean Smith and Nigel Pearson ,Chris wilder and Sean dysche all had outstanding seasons Nobody will ever know why Watford sacked there English manager , but that's their choice . The only English manager to ' under perform' was Eddie Howe .Though he still took Bournemouth from bottom of league 2 on minus 15 points to relegation from the prem .And arguably most teams at the bottom of league 2 would be happy with that. Brendan Rodgers is from Co Antrim but and as you say did a good job at Leicester. There must be something we don't know re Pearson for me . Some good English managers in the Prem that you listed but none of them would get top 4 jobs you feel. |
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Post by westgatelakes on Jul 27, 2020 13:55:45 GMT
I've often wondered could Pep have kept TP's Stoke team in the Prem in that first crazy season ? I doubt it Godfrey ….Tippy tap was a problem with the plumbing in the showers at the Brit in 2008/09 :-) |
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 27, 2020 14:34:42 GMT
We're lazy in this country. We can't be bothered developing world class English players because we can just buy in foreign players. We can't be bothered developing world class managers because we can just buy in a foreign manager.
We've even done it with our national team.
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Post by Gods on Jul 27, 2020 15:07:10 GMT
I've often wondered could Pep have kept TP's Stoke team in the Prem in that first crazy season ? I doubt it Godfrey ….Tippy tap was a problem with the plumbing in the showers at the Brit in 2008/09 :-) Thing is I reckon if you're gonna play tip-tap you'd better be good at it! |
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Post by Gods on Jul 27, 2020 15:09:35 GMT
We're lazy in this country. We can't be bothered developing world class English players because we can just buy in foreign players. We can't be bothered developing world class managers because we can just buy in a foreign manager. We've even done it with our national team. No different to our manufacturing industry, we have great brands but the ugly business of making stuff we've given to China. And the trouble with that is they walk off with the IP as well in the end ! |
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Post by minnierover on Jul 27, 2020 16:23:41 GMT
It would appear they are.
Certainly in the prem and probably in the champ too looking at Bielsa, Bilic and Frank as the top 3.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 27, 2020 16:26:07 GMT
It seems most tropheys are won by them.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 27, 2020 17:02:36 GMT
I've often wondered could Pep have kept TP's Stoke team in the Prem in that first crazy season ? With his eyes shut. |
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Post by FbrgVaStkFan on Jul 27, 2020 18:39:56 GMT
... That's a valid opinion ,but I think it ignores the fact , they have the best squads and the most money. Yes and probably the most significant factor, however one still needs to manage all those egos. |
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 27, 2020 20:50:31 GMT
The top 6 clubs are mostly foreign owned.
The owners of those clubs want the top managers to manage their club, whatever country they may come from.
The top managers are naturally considered to be those who have won Championships.
There are fewer teams competing for the top place in European leagues, which are dominated by 2 or 3 teams. So top managers in those leagues win titles more often and become prime candidates for the top 6 clubs in the Prem.
For British managers to get top Prem. jobs they may be best served going to manage in Europe.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 0:02:13 GMT
Congratulations to Scot Parker at Fulham
And yes their English manager really did spot a flaw in the Brentford goalies positioning at free kicks
And yes this was embarrassing for Brentfords Danish manager
Quite like Thomas Frank though , good luck to him next year .Hope they lose ten nil to the potters three times next year . Twice in the league and once in the play offs
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 1:44:01 GMT
It would appear they are. Certainly in the prem and probably in the champ too looking at Bielsa, Bilic and Frank as the top 3. Hard to see how you rate Frank higher than Scot Parker ... according to the papers Scot gave Bryan the message ' go for it ' before the free kick that embarrassed Brentfords goalie and manager . Apparently Fulham had done their homework on brenford and knew their keepers positioning was overly aggressive. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 2:07:24 GMT
I've often wondered could Pep have kept TP's Stoke team in the Prem in that first crazy season ? With his eyes shut. I am not sure that his success with Sergio aguero means you could rely on him to get a tune out of Richard cresswell and co . We will never know. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 6, 2020 3:49:10 GMT
Foreign managers are more able to adapt to situations because they're brought up in a culture where to 'think football' is actively encouraged.
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