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Post by elystokie on Jul 5, 2020 8:05:38 GMT
Rowett had the impossible job - as in picked up a team/squad that was rotten to the core - that could not compete at any level in a game of footie and yet was expected to win the league outright by fans and a board that should have known better. Doomed to get sacked but was actually doing alright and we would not have been in this mess had we kept him. Had we got the NJ/Rowett appointments the wrong way round we would have dropped straight through to tier 3. NJ was another road traffic accident appointment by our clueless owners. MON is considered the saviour, but has actually only got 3 more points than Rowett in the same amount of games - yet Rowett was considered an abject failure by most Stoke fans and the board - how do we work that one out. MON should keep his job if he keeps us up and will deserve some time and patience if he does. My worry is that, if we do stay up, when we reach the half way stage next year and are hitting some consistent form and are only 6 points of the play-offs, like Rowett, that the idiotic fans/board will see this as a failure and the cycle will continue and MON will receive his cards and we will have to endure another British hit n hope feck up of an appointment The key differences with Rowett, for me anyway, are that he had a full pre season and spent around £50 million whereas MON had neither. The football was dull and we were no great shakes but he'd have kept his job if he could have kept his mouth shut, he couldn't and didn't.
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Post by Simon Drainrod on Jul 5, 2020 8:14:24 GMT
I'm old enough to have forgotten Kamara ever existed... What we're our stats under Kamara? P14. W1. D5. L8.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 8:20:01 GMT
Rowett had the impossible job - as in picked up a team/squad that was rotten to the core - that could not compete at any level in a game of footie and yet was expected to win the league outright by fans and a board that should have known better. Doomed to get sacked but was actually doing alright and we would not have been in this mess had we kept him. Had we got the NJ/Rowett appointments the wrong way round we would have dropped straight through to tier 3. NJ was another road traffic accident appointment by our clueless owners. MON is considered the saviour, but has actually only got 3 more points than Rowett in the same amount of games - yet Rowett was considered an abject failure by most Stoke fans and the board - how do we work that one out. MON should keep his job if he keeps us up and will deserve some time and patience if he does. My worry is that, if we do stay up, when we reach the half way stage next year and are hitting some consistent form and are only 6 points of the play-offs, like Rowett, that the idiotic fans/board will see this as a failure and the cycle will continue and MON will receive his cards and we will have to endure another British hit n hope feck up of an appointment Being given £50m to spend in the Championship is not an impossible job, he spent it on overpriced dross....
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 5, 2020 8:25:16 GMT
Rowett had the impossible job - as in picked up a team/squad that was rotten to the core - that could not compete at any level in a game of footie and yet was expected to win the league outright by fans and a board that should have known better. Doomed to get sacked but was actually doing alright and we would not have been in this mess had we kept him. Had we got the NJ/Rowett appointments the wrong way round we would have dropped straight through to tier 3. NJ was another road traffic accident appointment by our clueless owners. MON is considered the saviour, but has actually only got 3 more points than Rowett in the same amount of games - yet Rowett was considered an abject failure by most Stoke fans and the board - how do we work that one out. MON should keep his job if he keeps us up and will deserve some time and patience if he does. My worry is that, if we do stay up, when we reach the half way stage next year and are hitting some consistent form and are only 6 points of the play-offs, like Rowett, that the idiotic fans/board will see this as a failure and the cycle will continue and MON will receive his cards and we will have to endure another British hit n hope feck up of an appointment I think you are forgetting; 1. Rowett was appointed in May and had all summer to prepare, changing the squad, hiring all the assistants he wanted, getting settled in, etc. 2. He had pre-season to prepare his squad, with practice matches, team bonding, etc. 3. £50 million spent. I think it is amazing MON has more points than Rowett considering: 1. the squad he inherited, a team that looked beaten before they started, 2. no time to prepare, straight into matches like Barnsley away in a few hours of being appointed, 3. minimal signings (who wants to join a club in the relegation zone?), and 4. looking after the NI national side as well. MON is the saviour just look at this season's progression graph: www.soccerstats.com/team.asp?league=england2&stats=u67-stoke-cityI think there are some people who still don't appreciate how bad things were with our position when MON arrived. So far he has worked wonders, and if there is anyone at fault with our performances at times, it is 100% down to the players. He will have his reasons for his team selections.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 8:39:11 GMT
They have all had to coach, in a club run by wealthy unprofessional amateurs ,chucking money around and handing out rediculous contracts.
A situation guaranteed to encourage the worst type of behaviour from the modern day professional footballer.
We are very grateful to you for giving the city of Stoke a huge jobs boost and donating ten million quid to the royal Stoke
But for goodness sakes Denise , give JC another Job to do, and get in a proper CEO .Give MoN a fighting chance .
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Post by Trouserdog on Jul 5, 2020 8:50:54 GMT
Extrapolated over a 46-game season, M'ON's record would give us 67 points- not enough for a play-off challenge but decent top-half stuff.
Given the mess that the squad's in, I think that would be an incredible result if he were to achieve something like that next season (in the event of us staying up this year- in itself a minor miracle given the start we had.)
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Post by adamsson on Jul 5, 2020 8:52:02 GMT
You've got to bear in mind what O'Neill walked into. His record is incredible really, especially when you consider there have been some real howlers of results in there. That shows that he can lift players and get good performances from under performing players. Agreed we still have a fragile squad that can fall apart for no apparent reason but the transformation MON achieved between Wigan and Barnsley was incredible.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 5, 2020 8:56:34 GMT
You've got to bear in mind what O'Neill walked into. His record is incredible really, especially when you consider there have been some real howlers of results in there. That shows that he can lift players and get good performances from under performing players. Agreed we still have a fragile squad that can fall apart for no apparent reason but the transformation MON achieved between Wigan and Barnsley was incredible. Was it incredible? He played a team that a lot of people have been calling for or something close to. It was more balanced than the 3 sides he’s picked before. And crucially had Clucas where he’s been needed for these last 3 games. Deeper in a 2. He had a right back at right back. Powell at 10. Campbell on the right and Vokes up top. They are things that when I see the team and I see that, I think we have a chance. That hasn’t happened since lockdown.
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Post by clarkeda on Jul 5, 2020 9:49:22 GMT
Personally think he has done a remarkable job, considering we were really struggling for wins, and a team in free fall.
He’s only been able to get in 2 of his ‘own’ players.
He’s got us scoring more goals, with no pre season, lockdown, the unprofessional behaviours of the squad.
I just hope his last 3 games haven’t left us too much to do.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 10:17:15 GMT
I'm old enough to have forgotten Kamara ever existed... What we're our stats under Kamara? Who?
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Post by blackpoolred on Jul 5, 2020 10:50:07 GMT
Rowett had the impossible job - as in picked up a team/squad that was rotten to the core - that could not compete at any level in a game of footie and yet was expected to win the league outright by fans and a board that should have known better. Doomed to get sacked but was actually doing alright and we would not have been in this mess had we kept him. Had we got the NJ/Rowett appointments the wrong way round we would have dropped straight through to tier 3. NJ was another road traffic accident appointment by our clueless owners. MON is considered the saviour, but has actually only got 3 more points than Rowett in the same amount of games - yet Rowett was considered an abject failure by most Stoke fans and the board - how do we work that one out. MON should keep his job if he keeps us up and will deserve some time and patience if he does. My worry is that, if we do stay up, when we reach the half way stage next year and are hitting some consistent form and are only 6 points of the play-offs, like Rowett, that the idiotic fans/board will see this as a failure and the cycle will continue and MON will receive his cards and we will have to endure another British hit n hope feck up of an appointment I think you are forgetting; 1. Rowett was appointed in May and had all summer to prepare, changing the squad, hiring all the assistants he wanted, getting settled in, etc. 2. He had pre-season to prepare his squad, with practice matches, team bonding, etc. 3. £50 million spent. I think it is amazing MON has more points than Rowett considering: 1. the squad he inherited, a team that looked beaten before they started, 2. no time to prepare, straight into matches like Barnsley away in a few hours of being appointed, 3. minimal signings (who wants to join a club in the relegation zone?), and 4. looking after the NI national side as well. MON is the saviour just look at this season's progression graph: www.soccerstats.com/team.asp?league=england2&stats=u67-stoke-cityI think there are some people who still don't appreciate how bad things were with our position when MON arrived. So far he has worked wonders, and if there is anyone at fault with our performances at times, it is 100% down to the players. He will have his reasons for his team selections. All good points and I think MON has done a great job. But I don't think there was a man on gods earth that could have turned the squad Rowett inherited into automatic promotion candidates in less than half a season. You could have argued the entire squad needed replacing, no amount of money was going to turn it around in one season. He picked up a team/squad that had won 1 competitive game of football that year, they couldn't compete at any level, that included getting beat by tier 2 & 3 teams in cup games. The players were either over age, over weight or had no interest in playing for the club, it was in a dire state with no foundations at all to build on. In my opinion had MON picked up that team he would have not done much better(nobody would have), but of course we will never know - that said MON's first 2 signings have been underwhelming and will have to do better than that if we want to move forward. Also, I thought we were doing alright under Rowett the game against Villa was one of the most enjoyable games I had watched for a few years - was a great attacking display and the Brizzle game, where he was sacked, was only our 2nd loss in 13 games - and in that game Allen missed the most bizarre open goal and we missed a penalty before they scored with their only attack of the half(we were shit 2nd half of that game), but think I am correct in saying had we won we would have been just 3 points off play-offs - given what he inherited that was as good a return as we were going to get - but I know nobody agrees with me in the slightest re Rowett My main point though is that if MON is given cash to splash and we are not on the top of the table by xmas then we should not pull the trigger - especially if the team are beginning to show some consistency and are mid-table-ish and not far from the play-offs. If we do stay up we know our fans will predicting us to finish 1st pre season and genuinely expecting us to finish there, but I just think the people that run our club need to know the club need foundations building and that may take time and yes MON looks a decent manager and so he will deserve the time Rowett did not get - unless we are in the bottom three at xmas - in which case he will have to go
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 5, 2020 11:52:17 GMT
For all the ups and downs, we'd be as safe as houses and looking towards next season with some optimism if we'd had a full MON season. If only we'd got rid of Nath a bit sooner
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Post by chigstoke on Jul 5, 2020 11:58:16 GMT
For all the ups and downs, we'd be as safe as houses and looking towards next season with some optimism if we'd had a full MON season. If only we'd got rid of Nath a bit sooner Would it be out of the realms of possibility that next season if we stay up, he can mount a play off push, or at least a Top 8/10? At first and especially after Hull I genuinely thought next season could be fantastic under him. What we saw in the 3 games after restart knocked that right out of me. We'd need to try and get rid of a few in the squad, but could we get there if we stay up? That form table suggest it certainly wouldn't be impossible.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 11:58:20 GMT
For all the ups and downs, we'd be as safe as houses and looking towards next season with some optimism if we'd had a full MON season. If only we'd got rid of Nath a bit sooner 3rd highest scorers which considering we couldn’t buy a goal is impressive.....
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 5, 2020 12:00:55 GMT
For all the ups and downs, we'd be as safe as houses and looking towards next season with some optimism if we'd had a full MON season. If only we'd got rid of Nath a bit sooner When you see stuff like this it should make everyone realise (for those saying relegation could facilitate the rebuild needed) that it is imperative that we stay up. Somehow, however, just stay up. With o'Neil, next season will be much better and within 2 years we'll be genuine challengers for promotion again. Pulis'esque revival. Stay up, fall a little short of play offs, get promoted. That would be some turnaround from where we were under Jones.
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Post by swampmongrel on Jul 5, 2020 12:11:30 GMT
I was looking at the Infogol xG stuff and I’m pondering if we, including myself, haven’t all overacted a bit to our form since the restart. Wigan was as bad as anything we’ve seen, even some of the shit under Jones, but could the other performances be seen as reasonable?
A point was fine at Reading and it could be argued that we were a touch unlucky against Boro. On another day that performance, while not great, could have given us three points in which case we’d be sitting pretty despite the junk that happened at Wigan.
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Post by swampmongrel on Jul 5, 2020 12:12:55 GMT
I was looking at the Infogol xG stuff and I’m pondering if we, including myself, haven’t all overacted a bit to our form since the restart. Wigan was as bad as anything we’ve seen, even some of the shit under Jones, but could the other performances be seen as reasonable? A point was fine at Reading and it could be argued that we were a touch unlucky against Boro. On another day that performance, while not great, could have given us three points in which case we’d be sitting pretty despite the junk that happened at Wigan. Point being that the performances, ignoring the results have not been particularly unusual for us in the MoN era. Some decent, some unlucky, some shit.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 5, 2020 12:16:23 GMT
I was looking at the Infogol xG stuff and I’m pondering if we, including myself, haven’t all overacted a bit to our form since the restart. Wigan was as bad as anything we’ve seen, even some of the shit under Jones, but could the other performances be seen as reasonable? A point was fine at Reading and it could be argued that we were a touch unlucky against Boro. On another day that performance, while not great, could have given us three points in which case we’d be sitting pretty despite the junk that happened at Wigan. Point being that the performances, igniting the results have not been particularly unusual for us in the MoN era. Some decent, some unlucky, some shit. Wigan was shocking and there is no hiding away from that. However, for me, it was the post match reaction of o'Neil that had me more worried. Alluding to desire, fitness issues and problems with dressing room set alarm bells ringing for many, more so even than the performance itself.
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Post by swampmongrel on Jul 5, 2020 12:22:52 GMT
Point being that the performances, igniting the results have not been particularly unusual for us in the MoN era. Some decent, some unlucky, some shit. Wigan was shocking and there is no hiding away from that. However, for me, it was the post match reaction of o'Neil that had me more worried. Alluding to desire, fitness issues and problems with dressing room set alarm bells ringing for many, more so even than the performance itself. I’d agree, but I’m not sure these issues related to ‘attitude’ever really fully went away. I had similar concerns after QPR away. Suppose the difference being they weren’t articulated by O’Neil himself.
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Post by steinosjockstrap on Jul 5, 2020 12:28:05 GMT
Looking at Rowetts' record overall,I've been convinced for a while that he falls into that category of manager who doesn't lose too many,draws way too many,and thinks not losing makes him a great manager. When he was with us,if he'd shown a desire to turn just a few of his many draws into wins, maybe he'd be better thought of?
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Post by Widget123 on Jul 5, 2020 15:33:40 GMT
Rowett's brand of football was very hard to watch - lots of draws and very little gung-ho football. He probably did the right thing trying to make us difficult to breakdown but was completely undone by the complete collapse in Butland's form and his own myopia in terms of putting together any sort of offensive attacking side to the squad. He also spent a lot/far too much money on players which never suited the team formations he was putting out. In hind sight he'd have probably been given the entire first season if he hadn't decided to get into a spat with the fans and the press. He effectively resigned rather than being pushed out by getting into too many arguments.
I think he'd have probably have resolved some of the more entrenched issues in the club the following season even if the football wasn't fun to watch. As unlike Jones he wasn't too pally with the players.
Jones by contrast looked so out of his depth, his squad acquisitions and complete destruction of our competitiveness at this level has set us back two years minimum. O'Neill has managed to turn that around somewhat but it'll still take at least another 12 months (and a squad overhaul) before we are truly competitive again (assuming it goes to plan).
The last four years have been pretty shit all things considered. The rot really started when Hughes was given too much time and should have been jettisoned either at the start of his last season or at least two months before he was eventually sacked. Those wins against Watford in late October and Swansea in early December bought him time he really didn't deserve and effectively resulted in our relegation. If we'd ditched him in November we'd probably still be in the Prem.
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Post by xchpotter on Jul 5, 2020 17:41:07 GMT
Point being that the performances, igniting the results have not been particularly unusual for us in the MoN era. Some decent, some unlucky, some shit. Wigan was shocking and there is no hiding away from that. However, for me, it was the post match reaction of o'Neil that had me more worried. Alluding to desire, fitness issues and problems with dressing room set alarm bells ringing for many, more so even than the performance itself. If we stay up, I’m hoping the insight and attitude the players have shown post re start will be something MON will be much better prepared for when the new season starts. He will hopefully be able to adjust our usual half arsed approach after any break as a consequence of what he has seen. A good start next season would have so many benefits. When was the last time we hit the ground running at the start of a season, it just always feel like we are playing catch up. We just have to stay up first though.
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Post by fraybentos on Jul 5, 2020 17:51:34 GMT
O’Neil all day, I can see O’Neil managing a big side in the prem, I can’t see that for Rowett or Jones . We have a very good manager, who can polish a turd, enjoy the ride
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2020 0:01:58 GMT
Matches W D L Goals Points PPM 34 5 13 16 28:46 28 0.82 Jones 26 8 11 7 30:31 35 1.35 Rowett 26 11 5 10 41:34 38 1.46 O'Neill As the above shows (if we didn't know already) O'Neill trumps the previous 2 managers. He's played an identical number of games to Rowett as well,but how much better we have been under him,even though Rowett lost less games. Can someone update this please?
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 19, 2020 0:06:15 GMT
I'm just glad we don't have to listen to the interviews of Jones "Look.." And then followed by the same scripted shit he's thought in his head laying in bed at 1 am.
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Post by skip on Jul 19, 2020 0:40:17 GMT
I'm still angry at how bad Jones was. How is it even fucking possible to be that bad? I really need to let it go. He was an optimistic gamble that didn't pay off. It's history now, let it go.
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Post by ParaPsych on Jul 19, 2020 0:58:36 GMT
I'm still angry at how bad Jones was. How is it even fucking possible to be that bad? I really need to let it go. He was an optimistic gamble that didn't pay off. It's history now, let it go. No.
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Post by mamasgloves on Jul 19, 2020 6:59:57 GMT
So say Alexander Armstrong and Richard Osman If you are old enough to remember Chris Kamara, you’ll know it’s been worse. Did he also have £20m at his disposal and tell everyone how good he was every other sentence? No comparison. Given his resources he comfortably takes the title of our worst ever. And yes, I was there for Kammy
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 19, 2020 7:10:05 GMT
MON is the only one of the three with a positive goal difference! Shocking by the other two - especially given the money they spent compared with MON.
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Post by tachyon on Jul 19, 2020 8:52:44 GMT
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