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Post by franklin66 on Feb 19, 2020 13:45:22 GMT
Priti Patel has just been on the radio, banging on about 8m non active British citizens that could be working. Reporter pointed out that 2m are students, 2m carers, 2m long term sick & just shy of 2m pensioners. Silly Priti! So then IDS comes on saying that he used to talk to British employers about why they employed foreign rather than British & they said they couldn’t find enough with the skill sets to do the work. “Well why not train them”, he asked. “Too expensive” Well WTF didn’t you incentivise them. Socialism is alive & well, as long as you’re business. State sponsored capitalism💷 She really is as thick as pigshit. The truth is it is dog whistle politics and damn the consequences. There isn't a plan to mitigate. Her and her family wont be affected by 300,000 missing health and social care workers. Incentify benefits that might fill a few vacancies for the menial tasks prestwich was in about.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 19, 2020 13:48:26 GMT
All valuable work not sure anyone is disputing it value this is about skills for a visa. One one person has called it menial work dont confuse valuable and worthy with skill level.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 19, 2020 13:50:55 GMT
She really is as thick as pigshit. The truth is it is dog whistle politics and damn the consequences. There isn't a plan to mitigate. Her and her family wont be affected by 300,000 missing health and social care workers. Incentify benefits that might fill a few vacancies for the menial tasks prestwich was in about. The point about workfare is a different debate. This is the point though, these really aren't unskilled jobs. Would you want someone without the basics who is forced to be there against their will, looking after one of your relatives?
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Post by Eggybread on Feb 19, 2020 13:53:51 GMT
Define a “low skilled” care worker? The OP ... If you have nothing of intelligence to say just shut up,its quite simple.Boring predictable and incredibly stupid.
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Post by Eggybread on Feb 19, 2020 13:56:38 GMT
My partner is a catering manager and has worked in three nursing/carer homes and all three have many foreign workers. Approx 25% of the social care sector in England is foreign.And there is still expected to be a 200,000 shortfall by the end of this parliament due to brexit. Sounds like utopia to crapslinger,the little England he has always dreamed of.. I take it you exploit sorry employee foreign workers then I dont work in a care home.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 19, 2020 13:58:19 GMT
Incentify benefits that might fill a few vacancies for the menial tasks prestwich was in about. The point about workfare is a different debate. This is the point though, these really aren't unskilled jobs. Would you want someone without the basics who is forced to be there against their will looking after one of your relatives? I've not said they are unskilled at any point I've said train and retain etc. As for against their will well that's a problem with culture of expecting a handout with needing one. We need to change the culture around benefits and give people self respect and a worthy job. I'm not for one minute saying round up the druggies and get them into care work etc. If a convicted person has to do community service why cant people do what they can to clean up the country in exchange for wages increased support via benefits IF they are able, but let's stop pretending there are not people who choose not to contribute in any way at all.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 19, 2020 14:00:10 GMT
If you have nothing of intelligence to say just shut up,its quite simple.Boring predictable and incredibly stupid. In that case does it rule me out too 😁
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 14:09:03 GMT
All valuable work not sure anyone is disputing it value this is about skills for a visa. One one person has called it menial work dont confuse valuable and worthy with skill level. But the point being that they take skill to complete, trained and professional skills are needed for all work.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 14:10:04 GMT
The point about workfare is a different debate. This is the point though, these really aren't unskilled jobs. Would you want someone without the basics who is forced to be there against their will looking after one of your relatives? I've not said they are unskilled at any point I've said train and retain etc. As for against their will well that's a problem with culture of expecting a handout with needing one. We need to change the culture around benefits and give people self respect and a worthy job. I'm not for one minute saying round up the druggies and get them into care work etc. If a convicted person has to do community service why cant people do what they can to clean up the country in exchange for wages increased support via benefits IF they are able, but let's stop pretending there are not people who choose not to contribute in any way at all. It depends though, do we make those who are in need have a worse time of it just to spite the ones who are sponging?
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Post by bathstoke on Feb 19, 2020 14:15:45 GMT
If you have nothing of intelligence to say just shut up,its quite simple.Boring predictable and incredibly stupid. Some years ago, when we were still in the top flight, I remember one of the early incarnations of these neo-right freeforalls & one of our frequent posters, now sadly left, said “it makes my skin crawl that I support the same club as some of you people, nevermind that we might sit near eachother” Well things have gotten much worse since then. There is a pseudmachoism on here that smacks of cowardice & bullying. Like a power without power...
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Post by felonious on Feb 19, 2020 14:16:08 GMT
Time for a musical interlude.....open the door and let em in.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 19, 2020 14:21:35 GMT
I've not said they are unskilled at any point I've said train and retain etc. As for against their will well that's a problem with culture of expecting a handout with needing one. We need to change the culture around benefits and give people self respect and a worthy job. I'm not for one minute saying round up the druggies and get them into care work etc. If a convicted person has to do community service why cant people do what they can to clean up the country in exchange for wages increased support via benefits IF they are able, but let's stop pretending there are not people who choose not to contribute in any way at all. It depends though, do we make those who are in need have a worse time of it just to spite the ones who are sponging? This is where it get tough and "need" is the hot word. If a person is able to work is it unreasonable to ask them to contribute ? I dont think it is. Now this is the tough part if you choose for no good reason not to work then expect reduced support its down to those individuals. So yes it might make things worse but allowing them the option to work is not a bad thing surely!! Imho the current benefits system is unsustainable without change it cant go on. Now I'll use the climate as a comparison it might not have an effect on you but for the future generations it will so shall we just ignore it or make changes, I'm for change. Long term change is required a cultural change is required for benefits, it's being used and abused and its cost is out of hand. I thought your idea was jobs for all with a respectable standard of living while maintaining the care of the vulnerable and I agree 100%. We just differ in how to get there but the goals the same.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 14:25:13 GMT
It depends though, do we make those who are in need have a worse time of it just to spite the ones who are sponging? This is where it get tough and "need" is the hot word. If a person is able to work is it unreasonable to ask them to contribute ? I dont think it is. Now this is the tough part if you choose for no good reason not to work then expect reduced support its down to those individuals. So yes it might make things worse but allowing them the option to work is not a bad thing surely!! Imho the current benefits system is unsustainable without change it cant go on. Now I'll use the climate as a comparison it might not have an effect on you but for the future generations it will so shall we just ignore it or make changes, I'm for change. Long term change is required a cultural change is required for benefits, it's being used and abused and its cost is out of hand. I thought your idea was jobs for all with a respectable standard of living while maintaining the care of the vulnerable and I agree 100%. We just differ in how to get there but the goals the same. I agree completely that the current system is unsustainable, definitely. Personally I'm an advocate of Universal Basic Income, but I'm not hugely against what you're saying. My only worry is where we draw the line between 'can't work' and 'can't be bothered to work'. I think you'd find some people in need losing out, and I'd rather have the problem of some scroungers playing the system than have people in need failed by the system.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 19, 2020 14:33:21 GMT
This is where it get tough and "need" is the hot word. If a person is able to work is it unreasonable to ask them to contribute ? I dont think it is. Now this is the tough part if you choose for no good reason not to work then expect reduced support its down to those individuals. So yes it might make things worse but allowing them the option to work is not a bad thing surely!! Imho the current benefits system is unsustainable without change it cant go on. Now I'll use the climate as a comparison it might not have an effect on you but for the future generations it will so shall we just ignore it or make changes, I'm for change. Long term change is required a cultural change is required for benefits, it's being used and abused and its cost is out of hand. I thought your idea was jobs for all with a respectable standard of living while maintaining the care of the vulnerable and I agree 100%. We just differ in how to get there but the goals the same. I agree completely that the current system is unsustainable, definitely. Personally I'm an advocate of Universal Basic Income, but I'm not hugely against what you're saying. My only worry is where we draw the line between 'can't work' and 'can't be bothered to work'. I think you'd find some people in need losing out, and I'd rather have the problem of some scroungers playing the system than have people in need failed by the system. I accept that but and I know its harsh the majority must come first.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 14:45:46 GMT
I agree completely that the current system is unsustainable, definitely. Personally I'm an advocate of Universal Basic Income, but I'm not hugely against what you're saying. My only worry is where we draw the line between 'can't work' and 'can't be bothered to work'. I think you'd find some people in need losing out, and I'd rather have the problem of some scroungers playing the system than have people in need failed by the system. I accept that but and I know its harsh the majority must come first. Not sure that ever works in practice, you'll eventually be a minority.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 19, 2020 14:45:46 GMT
Of course it is Well I'd like people who are highly skilled to be looking after the elderly myself We all would however that is not the reality of the situation, for many it's just a job and there are plenty of readily available opportunities for those who want to work, I spent 12 years in the welfare to work sector I have seen the way our benefits system is been abused by some, benefit claimants if physically able should be made to work as part of their hand outs, no work no benefits in theory we will have little or no requirement for low skilled foreign workers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 14:46:12 GMT
All valuable work not sure anyone is disputing it value this is about skills for a visa. One one person has called it menial work dont confuse valuable and worthy with skill level. Please stop talking shit. I called it the most menial of the tasks listed. Not unimportant, just less important than getting someone’s meds right for example. It was you that seemed to think there was individuals employed just to do this, and to dust to which you referred to them as “low skilled”
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 14:47:20 GMT
Well I'd like people who are highly skilled to be looking after the elderly myself We all would however that is not the reality of the situation, for many it's just a job and there are plenty of readily available opportunities for those who want to work, I spent 12 years in the welfare to work sector I have seen the way our benefits system is been abused by some, benefit claimants if physically able should be made to work as part of their hand outs, no work no benefits in theory we will have little or no requirement for low skilled foreign workers. The problem is in who defines 'physically able'. Like I said above, I'd rather we have the odd scrounger making money when they shouldn't if it means all with genuine need are cared for. My main wish is for a Universal Basic Income.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 19, 2020 14:47:23 GMT
I take it you exploit sorry employee foreign workers then I dont work in a care home. I didn't say you did, you do however claim to run your own business do you employee foreign workers ?
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Feb 19, 2020 14:51:56 GMT
No points for vocational/non PhD qualifications is dumb.
Plenty of people in STEM without PhDs (but have a Masters of solid enough BSc) who I work with every single day who do invaluable and skilled work supporting research for less than 25k a year. Under these rules they wouldn't get a visa as they're not necessarily counted as "biological scientists" which the MAC have placed on the shortage list.
Job Offer - 20
Skill - 20
English - 10
Salary 10 at most
= 60
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 19, 2020 14:53:24 GMT
We all would however that is not the reality of the situation, for many it's just a job and there are plenty of readily available opportunities for those who want to work, I spent 12 years in the welfare to work sector I have seen the way our benefits system is been abused by some, benefit claimants if physically able should be made to work as part of their hand outs, no work no benefits in theory we will have little or no requirement for low skilled foreign workers. The problem is in who defines 'physically able'. Like I said above, I'd rather we have the odd scrounger making money when they shouldn't if it means all with genuine need are cared for. My main wish is for a Universal Basic Income. I am sure you will agree we should be looking at ability not disability, pretty sure a qualified team of medical doctor's could make that decision, time to stop the piss takers whoever they might be, these measures are long overdue no work no pay, none paid into the system none taken out, the welfare system is supposed to be in place as a safety net not a lifestyle choice. The more difficult we make it to claim benefits for immigrants the less will come here it is that simple.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 19, 2020 14:56:38 GMT
All valuable work not sure anyone is disputing it value this is about skills for a visa. One one person has called it menial work dont confuse valuable and worthy with skill level. Please stop talking shit. I called it the most menial of the tasks listed. Not unimportant, just less important than getting someone’s meds right for example. It was you that seemed to think there was individuals employed just to do this, and to dust to which you referred to them as “low skilled” Ok you just used the wrong word to describe them. I got confused with the menial part, low status etc I understand now 👍
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 14:57:14 GMT
I dont work in a care home. I didn't say you did, you do however claim to run your own business do you employee foreign workers ? He’s claimed to have had various careers. The bloke must be 150 years of age he’s fitted that many in. He also claimed to have a Maserati at one point until forgot to keep up the charade......
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 14:57:35 GMT
Please stop talking shit. I called it the most menial of the tasks listed. Not unimportant, just less important than getting someone’s meds right for example. It was you that seemed to think there was individuals employed just to do this, and to dust to which you referred to them as “low skilled” Ok you just used the wrong word to describe them. I got confused with the menial part, low status etc I understand now 👍 Thank you.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 19, 2020 14:58:42 GMT
Ok you just used the wrong word to describe them. I got confused with the menial part, low status etc I understand now 👍 Thanks you. Your most welcome young man.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 19, 2020 15:19:06 GMT
I accept that but and I know its harsh the majority must come first. Not sure that ever works in practice, you'll eventually be a minority. I wont though I and my missus worked our bollocks/lady equivalent off to provide for our family. As you do and many others so I wont need a hand out I pay for insurance etc to account for the unexpected and to provide for those I care about. I saved every penny I could I drive a 16yr old car I live in the same house it's called planning and self respect. I've never asked or expected anyone to provide for me, never been out of work regardless of what it was. And if needed I'd do any job i can get to pay my way. I live within my means never been materialistic. I am lucky but the harder you work the luckier you get as the saying goes.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Feb 19, 2020 15:37:47 GMT
I think that a lot of people are missing the clear and obvious fact that this is not an unchangeable, objective rule of nature.
If the government enacts this and it proves too strict, they're not going to stand idly by and watch care homes etc implode because of lack of labour- they can loosen the laws and let more people in to fit the requirements. It would be idiocy to think otherwise. The point is that it is now within own power to decide for ourselves what needs tinkering with and how best to do that, and there is no acceptable argument as to why this is a bad thing.
Aside from this, it will drive up wages at the bottom of the spectrum in a narural, organic way, not the artificial inflation of the moronic minimum wage concept.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 15:47:04 GMT
The problem is in who defines 'physically able'. Like I said above, I'd rather we have the odd scrounger making money when they shouldn't if it means all with genuine need are cared for. My main wish is for a Universal Basic Income. I am sure you will agree we should be looking at ability not disability, pretty sure a qualified team of medical doctor's could make that decision, time to stop the piss takers whoever they might be, these measures are long overdue no work no pay, none paid into the system none taken out, the welfare system is supposed to be in place as a safety net not a lifestyle choice. The more difficult we make it to claim benefits for immigrants the less will come here it is that simple. Hence Universal Basic Income.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 15:48:13 GMT
Not sure that ever works in practice, you'll eventually be a minority. I wont though I and my missus worked our bollocks/lady equivalent off to provide for our family. As you do and many others so I wont need a hand out I pay for insurance etc to account for the unexpected and to provide for those I care about. I saved every penny I could I drive a 16yr old car I live in the same house it's called planning and self respect. I've never asked or expected anyone to provide for me, never been out of work regardless of what it was. And if needed I'd do any job i can get to pay my way. I live within my means never been materialistic. I am lucky but the harder you work the luckier you get as the saying goes. Fair play to you and I doff my cap. But I think that phrase I've emboldened is not true really.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 19, 2020 15:50:20 GMT
I am sure you will agree we should be looking at ability not disability, pretty sure a qualified team of medical doctor's could make that decision, time to stop the piss takers whoever they might be, these measures are long overdue no work no pay, none paid into the system none taken out, the welfare system is supposed to be in place as a safety net not a lifestyle choice. The more difficult we make it to claim benefits for immigrants the less will come here it is that simple. Hence Universal Basic Income. Was that not tried before ?, if so and it was a success then why is it not in place in the majority of countries.
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