Support my campaign to stop the M6 killings.

[knowingeye]

I live near the M6 not far from J16 and almost daily the motorway is closed or at a standstill, due to yet more accidents, on what is already the most dangerous motorway in Britain. The loss of Arron and Ben's live's have made my want to do something positive.

Drastic measures are required to save more innocent lives from being wasted. I intend to commence a campaign to demand a blanket day time (6am- 8pm) speed limit of 50 mph from J15 to J21.

I'm contacting all local MPs and councillors to gain their input and support in this effort. Can you help me or know others who can?
I would be interested in any suggestions to make this happen.

Many thanks in advance.

ps Smudge and co. This isn't football, but is too important to put in shit bin. Thanks Eye.

[Huddysleftfoot]

Jun 8, 2008 20:05:36 GMT knowingeye said:

I live near the M6 not far from J16 and almost daily the motorway is closed or at a standstill, due to yet more accidents, on what is already the most dangerous motorway in Britain. The loss of Arron and Ben's live's have made my want to do something positive.

Drastic measures are required to save more innocent lives from being wasted. I intend to commence a campaign to demand a blanket day time (6am- 8pm) speed limit of 50 mph from J15 to J21.

I'm contacting all local MPs and councillors to gain their input and support in this effort. Can you help me or know others who can?
I would be interested in any suggestions to make this happen.

Many thanks in advance.

ps Smudge and co. This isn't football, but is too important to put in shit bin. Thanks Eye.

You would be wasting your time contacting councillors as (a) the stretch of M6 you're covering covers a number of Local Authorities and (b) The Motorway itself comes under the Dept of Transport. You best bet is to contact all the MP's that represent the various areas, so Stoke South, Cheshire, etc.

You might also want to set up a petition on the government website, like the anti road pricing lobby did.
petitions.pm.gov.uk/

And you may find this useful too
www.theyworkforyou.com/
This site is a really good guide to who does what in the area covered by the M6.

I wish you the best of luck.

[daverichards]

dont be so daft , its dangerous because people drive like dicks on the motorways in Staffordshire, number of times I've come up the M6 towards staffs stuck doing 60mph in lane 3 cos there is some dick refusing to use the lanes properly .

Its education that is needed, not blanket speed limits based on the abilities of the worst driver on the road , they need to educate the worst drivers, the unsafe drivers (be it too fast or too slow) , and tlet the rest of us get on with driving at the current limits .


ps your idea would have made jack shit difference , it happened at 5.45am

RIP to the 2 lads, but their death should not be used as an excuse for idiotic knee jerk reactions

[knowingeye]

Jun 8, 2008 20:24:00 GMT @daverichards said:

dont be so daft , its dangerous because people drive like dicks on the motorways in Staffordshire, number of times I've come up the M6 towards staffs stuck doing 60mph in lane 3 cos there is some dick refusing to use the lanes properly .

Its education that is needed, not blanket speed limits based on the abilities of the worst driver on the road , they need to educate the worst drivers, the unsafe drivers (be it too fast or too slow) , and tlet the rest of us get on with driving at the current limits .


ps your idea would have made jack shit difference , it happened at 5.45am

RIP to the 2 lads, but their death should not be used as an excuse for idiotic knee jerk reactions

Ilford? Hmm.

[powchirper]

Good call mate, Something defo needs doing, Get them average speed cameras in, they certainly slow the traffic in Cambridgeshire.

[Huddysleftfoot]

Jun 8, 2008 20:29:10 GMT @powchirper said:

Good call mate, Something defo needs doing, Get them average speed cameras in, they certainly slow the traffic in Cambridgeshire.

Works on the M42 as well. And the traffic keeps flowing and you get there in one oiece.

[daverichards]

knowingeye: what you think I don't know what the M6 is like cos I live down here, i go back home quite often, and "home" isn't far from Keele . I am well aware of what its like . However i drive for a living covering well over 40,000 miles a year all over the UK , and the problem on the M6 isn't speed its bad driving, bad lane discipline , and traveling too close (especially in bad conditions) , none of which would improve if you just dropped the speed limit to 50 mph, its made fuck all difference on the M4 between J3 and The elevated section towards J2 , to the point they actually raised it from 50 to 60 a few years back as the higher the speed limit the more traffic the road can take .

It is a Knee jerk reaction to a DRINK DRIVE related problem

[knowingeye]

Jun 8, 2008 20:36:21 GMT @daverichards said:

knowingeye: what you think I don't know what the M6 is like cos I live down here, i go back home quite often, and "home" isn't far from Keele . I am well aware of what its like . However i drive for a living covering well over 40,000 miles a year all over the UK , and the problem on the M6 isn't speed its bad driving, bad lane discipline , and traveling too close (especially in bad conditions) , none of which would improve if you just dropped the speed limit to 50 mph, its made fuck all difference on the M4 between J3 and The elevated section towards J2 , to the point they actually raised it from 50 to 60 a few years back as the higher the speed limit the more traffic the road can take .

It is a Knee jerk reaction to a DRINK DRIVE related problem

Dave, my family and I were nearly wiped out doing 60 mph in the inside lane just north of Keele, going north, by a driver of a Merc sports car swerving from the third lane, who didn't know that stretch of road. I was driving and ended up off the hard shoulder looking down an embankment. So do me a favour and fuck off this time. Know when your don't know what you're talking about. I see every day and time for something to be done.

Note: I don't swear often on this board, but this time you're being a prick! BTW. I'm a former class one police driver.

[Huddysleftfoot]

It's speed that kills, bad driving at lower speeds statistically produces less fatalities. So bad driving at speed is the killer.

[knowingeye]

Jun 8, 2008 20:22:06 GMT Huddysleftfoot said:

Jun 8, 2008 20:05:36 GMT knowingeye said:

I live near the M6 not far from J16 and almost daily the motorway is closed or at a standstill, due to yet more accidents, on what is already the most dangerous motorway in Britain. The loss of Arron and Ben's live's have made my want to do something positive.

Drastic measures are required to save more innocent lives from being wasted. I intend to commence a campaign to demand a blanket day time (6am- 8pm) speed limit of 50 mph from J15 to J21.

I'm contacting all local MPs and councillors to gain their input and support in this effort. Can you help me or know others who can?
I would be interested in any suggestions to make this happen.

Many thanks in advance.

ps Smudge and co. This isn't football, but is too important to put in shit bin. Thanks Eye.

You would be wasting your time contacting councillors as (a) the stretch of M6 you're covering covers a number of Local Authorities and (b) The Motorway itself comes under the Dept of Transport. You best bet is to contact all the MP's that represent the various areas, so Stoke South, Cheshire, etc.

You might also want to set up a petition on the government website, like the anti road pricing lobby did.
petitions.pm.gov.uk/

And you may find this useful too
www.theyworkforyou.com/
This site is a really good guide to who does what in the area covered by the M6.

I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks for the positive support and advice.

[Huddysleftfoot]

Jun 8, 2008 21:06:15 GMT knowingeye said:

Jun 8, 2008 20:22:06 GMT Huddysleftfoot said:

You would be wasting your time contacting councillors as (a) the stretch of M6 you're covering covers a number of Local Authorities and (b) The Motorway itself comes under the Dept of Transport. You best bet is to contact all the MP's that represent the various areas, so Stoke South, Cheshire, etc.

You might also want to set up a petition on the government website, like the anti road pricing lobby did.
petitions.pm.gov.uk/

And you may find this useful too
www.theyworkforyou.com/
This site is a really good guide to who does what in the area covered by the M6.

I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks for the positive support and advice.

No probs, hope it helps.

[TheDee51]

Knowing Eye - totally with you.

However, he was pissed - Surely that is the main issue?
I personally believe that if you've had even a sip of alcohol, then you don't drive FULLSTOP.

Even a quick half with lunch at dinner time then driving, should not be allowed.

[Scanner]

I agree with Ilford on this one.
If the law can't police the 70 speed limit, which this accident proves, what difference will changing it make?
Knowingeye, speed wasn't the main factor in your close shave but incredibly shit driving which unfortunately is becoming more and more common, mainly due to inexperienced drivers owning high powered vehicles and the amount of foreign drivers using our roads without passing some sort of British driving test. Maybe these are the issues which require attention 1st?

[chrispk76]

having a section that slows to 50mph will create all sorts of problems, especially when shit drivers doing 70mph have to slow to 50mph. as they slow down (it will be at the last possible moment they can get away with) it creates mayhem , unnecessary traffic, bobbing,weaving and driver frustration.

a better solution is to have the "average speed cameras" that keeps cars moving at a maximum of 70mph, stick them between junctions 14-22.
most trucks are limited to a lowly 56mph and look how many of them you see in accidents. the key is to have all vehicles travelling at the same speed and at a safe distance with a sober wide awake driver.


i do hope you get something sorted as i travel this route 5 days a week. i'm not sure 50mph is the answer but i'm sure raising awareness may come up with a more suitable answer.

[trebor63]

I agree with ID I'm sure the original post is well intentioned but it is well wide of the mark imo.

The police have got that many speed cameras (which have been proved to have little or no effect on safety) that they seem to forget most if not all accidents are caused by bad drivers NOT fast ones.

I drive 30,000 per year and am staggered at the horrendously poor driving of MANY motorway drivers. I would guess most of them are driving well BELOW the speed limit! They seem to think their indicators give them the right to pull out willy nilly, do people ever use mirrors?

Also as ID says middle or even outside lane dawdlers are DANGEROUS! This is England we drive on the left FFS do not drive like a gorm in the middle lane ITS OVER TAKING ONLY!

Maybe there is a case for having a motorway test but I guess the authorities find it easier to milk good drivers who are driving exceptionally well but slighly faster than the dangerous slow people!

[beagriestache]

At least Knowing eye is prepared to try to do somet about it so well done to him.

Most researchers believe that speed is NOT the causative factor in most accidents, bad driving is. However, it stands to reason that an accident at higher speed is much more likely to be fatal.

I don't know whether a 50mph limit would prevent accidents but it was a fact that the M42 trialled variable speed limits for a while and not only were there fewer accidents but the traffic flowed more smoothly as well because you don't get the nobheads who fly up the outside land and then hit the brakes causing a concertina of heavy breaking back down the motorway.

[Funky]

If anything the speed limits need taking up to at least 90mph on motorways, this will make drivers concentrate more, it's to easy and boring driving at 70 in todays cars.

[jonesinamillion]

Something needs doing as M6 and all motorways are a dangerous place to be, education has to be the key, they seem to work much better on the continent.
Speed limts need raising, the 70 MPH limit was set in the 50's when cars had no electronic assistance, bicycle width tyres and drum brakes front & back.

Good luck on your quest though, but a nationwide campagn on how to use Mways correctly would be a good starting point.

[daverichards]

Jun 8, 2008 23:08:33 GMT jonesinamillion said:

Something needs doing as M6 and all motorways are a dangerous place to be, education has to be the key, they seem to work much better on the continent.
Speed limts need raising, the 70 MPH limit was set in the 50's when cars had no electronic assistance, bicycle width tyres and drum brakes front & back.

Good luck on your quest though, but a nationwide campagn on how to use Mways correctly would be a good starting point.

The motorway speed limit was introduced as a knee jerk reaction to reports that a race team had tested the top speed of its Le Mans sports car racer up the M1 in the middle of the night in the late 1960's , the AC codra daytona coupe is said to have hit 170mph . I believe it was the Daily Mail that reported the news and campaigned for a limit . it was set at 70mph as that was the top seed of the most common family car at the time the Ford Anglia . If they set it using the same criteria today it would be the Top speed of a Ford Focus diesel , around 110mph .

Variable speed limits that are enforced would be a good starting point, they should be as low as 20-30 mph in dense fog , snow etc , upto 80-90 in good visibility on medium density traffic ... higher in good visibility empty roads , and unlimited on empty motorways in the middle of the night

[Northy]

knowingeye, good that you are trying to do something about it but I agree with ID, it's bad driving that needs attention.
I also drive around a lot with my job and it is the bad drivers, the people sitting at 55 in the middle lane, the swoopers - cutting in from lane 3 to the inside lane 100 yards from their junction exit, the overtaking lane hoggers, etc. that need to be taken off the motorways, educated and then let back when they are good enough.
Just going up the M56 and onto the M6 this morning about 7 miles of motorway, I witnessed 3 knob heads on the road, why would somebody jump out of a long slip road to overtake 3 cars and swoop back in with 50 yards to go, just to gain 3 seconds and then sit behind another car, wasting fuel is beyond me, they obviously plays warcraft and failed at sex again last night

[R.I.P Fullers Nan]

Jun 8, 2008 20:24:00 GMT @daverichards said:

dont be so daft , its dangerous because people drive like dicks on the motorways in Staffordshire, number of times I've come up the M6 towards staffs stuck doing 60mph in lane 3 cos there is some dick refusing to use the lanes properly .

Its education that is needed, not blanket speed limits based on the abilities of the worst driver on the road , they need to educate the worst drivers, the unsafe drivers (be it too fast or too slow) , and tlet the rest of us get on with driving at the current limits .

I think i saw you down the M6 on the last day. You were in lane 3 and you must of been travelling at about 90. We tried to catch up but we couldn't.


ps your idea would have made jack shit difference , it happened at 5.45am

RIP to the 2 lads, but their death should not be used as an excuse for idiotic knee jerk reactions

[stokecity4eva]

agree with ID on this

[Funky]

A few years ago I drove from Stoke to Frankfurt and thought the Germans (Am i really saying this?) had the roads spot on.

During certain times of the day/certain stretches of roads, trucks were only allowed to use the inside lane and cars were limited to 70 on certain stretches up to whatever on others.

[beagriestache]

I assume you're joking Bread when you say the speed limit should be raised. Doing that would reduce the reaction time should anything unexpected happen to the car in front.

Incidentally, the Germans have a much higher accident and casualty rate per km on their roads (and in particular the speed de-restricted sections of the Autobahn) than we do, so wrong again I'm afraid.

[supersmashinggreat]

Raising the speed limit is a good option, a lot won't admit it but most people break the limit, be it on a motorway or a road etc

Bad driving causes the problems not the speed.

[stokecity4eva]

yeah how many off you see cars going past you on motorway when your doing 70 todays cars are alot more powerful than cars where when they were first introduced its about time they were reanalysed on the major roads and yes as many people have already said bad driving is the root of many accidents not speed is just more speed means greater risk of a fatality

[beagriestache]

And since every road fatality costs over £1 million to investigate, that's a great use of your tax pounds.

Some people just don't think things through!

[scfc147]

Jun 8, 2008 21:51:55 GMT trebor63 said:

I agree with ID I'm sure the original post is well intentioned but it is well wide of the mark imo.

The police have got that many speed cameras (which have been proved to have little or no effect on safety) that they seem to forget most if not all accidents are caused by bad drivers NOT fast ones.

I drive 30,000 per year and am staggered at the horrendously poor driving of MANY motorway drivers. I would guess most of them are driving well BELOW the speed limit! They seem to think their indicators give them the right to pull out willy nilly, do people ever use mirrors?

Also as ID says middle or even outside lane dawdlers are DANGEROUS! This is England we drive on the left FFS do not drive like a gorm in the middle lane ITS OVER TAKING ONLY!

Maybe there is a case for having a motorway test but I guess the authorities find it easier to milk good drivers who are driving exceptionally well but slighly faster than the dangerous slow people!

SPOT ON TREBOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Over the last 15 years I reckon I average in excess of 40,000 miles a year at all times of day and night. The single-most infuriating bad habit is the dick-heads who refuse to move into the free lane inside of them!
Only last week I chose to drive to Croydon leaving the Potteries at 10p.m. and decided to count the pricks I had to move out from the inside lane and go all the way into the outside lane just to overtake them. By the time I had got to the M25 I had reached my half century!!! How anyone can be concentrating on driving, lazily sitting in the middle lane doing 60mph, oblivious to who are what else is behind them is fucking beyond me!!

The 70mph speed limit is a total nonsense and unmanageable, for authorities and drivers alike. It is archaic in design and used solely to indeed milk funds.

Q. Where do police drive on the motorway when not responding to incidents, etc.?
A. On the inside lane with about 2 bloody miles in-front of them free from traffic!
Q. How do you recognize this?
A. 2 bloody miles of dick-heads in the middle and outside lane!!!!

P.S. My heart goes out to the family of the 2 children and other such incidents but please don't preach 'Reduce speed, blah, blah, blah!' Perhaps some kind of motorway tuition is required because every day more people drive our motorways and dual carriageways with absolutely no clue what they are doing!

MIRROR! SIGNAL! MANOEUVER!!!

[knowingeye]

SCFC147 said "Perhaps some kind of motorway tuition is required because every day more people drive our motorways and dual carriageways with absolutely no clue what they are doing!"

Maybe so but until this is put in place we have to do something more draconian to save lives at this terrible stretch of motorway, because as is shown people just don't listen and almost everyone, including many on here think that we are better drivers than the rest on the road. This isn't a reaction to the recent tragic deaths, but a common sense solution based upon thirty years of driving ( and at one time over 50k per annum!) throughout the UK, Europe and the US, but apart from the old N-340 along the Southern Spain coast, this stretch of the M6 has to be one of the most accident congested roads in Europe (I don't have the stats on it, though)

The underlying problem with the M6 from J15 to J21 is the many curves, dips and negative cambers that cause drivers of many vehicles types to swerve, which is exacerbated by excessive speed and proximity of other vehicles due to the heavy volume of traffic. (It's very easy to do even when you think you're concentrating.)

I'll keep you informed of what takes place over the coming months.

[daverichards]

You want to try the A1 Autostrada between Bologna and Florence, makes the M6 in North staffs and South cheshire look like runway 2 at heathrow , and yet it is only limited to 100kph at its worse sections , and those worse sections had bends you couldn't even get a van round at the speed limit when it was empty . It has some crashes , but you know what most of the time it works because people use the lanes better , slow down in the bad sections , and pay attention .

The biggest problem on british roads is people who think they are invincible with their airbags and ABS and air con and so on, and plod along cacooned in their own little world , like its a sunday afternoon in their big comfy chair in the living room and the road going by in front of them is the TV, they never check their mirrors, they never look behind them, they just see that bit of grey going by in front of them , but its OK they are just plodding along going a bit faster than the trucks , say 60mph , they must be safe they aren't even doing the speed limit .

BULL SHIT . you can FAIL your driving test for "not making sufficient progress" . (and before anyone says that crap ... its not, that was the official reason given to me by the examiner after failing my DIrect access bike test , I had missed a national speed limit sign that was green with moss , I then proceeded to only do 40mph in a 60 mph area with a clear straight road ahead of me on a dry day)

going slower does not make you safer, or the roads safer. all it does is alter the distance you travel before you react to an incident ahead, a good driver reads the road better anyway . i usually react to an incident before the driver ahead of me, because I'm not some tunnel vision twat, I watch everything ahead of me as best i can, usually i'm focusing on the car one in front of me, and using my periferal vision for the car in front and to the sides , being in a van this is an easier, however when in a car I drift to one side of the lane to look round the car ahead , and if there is a van ahead I do the same and add an extra 10-15ft gap to give more warning .

The other tip is look at the car ahead, can it stop a LOT quicker than yours , if your in an old car with out ABS do not sit too close to a new car with ABS ... doubly so in the wet , and if you are being tailgated by a coach, HGV big van, get out of that situation, even if it means letting them go past , you really don't want do have to do an emergency stop with summat like that a few feet off your bumper . Its all common sense


NO TO BLANKET 50MPH SPEED LIMITS , YES TO BETTER DRIVERS