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Post by RAF on Feb 1, 2020 8:49:18 GMT
1 Gutless shithousery. Can't fucking blame him my bastard ringpiece. But you can kiss his fucking arse when the players decide to turn up? Fuck off H to be fair it was the same team bar BMI that beat a tough Swansea side. Just so we know what would you have done differently It really doesn't matter what I would have done does it? In reality I probably would have fucked it up more but that doesn't mean I have to take it on the chin like a sensible normal person does it? H
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Feb 1, 2020 8:51:46 GMT
On a constructive note I do on occasions wonder about the preparation . pos match comments suggest Rooney was always gong to be a issue yet Luton and others have managed him .
I’d have played cousins man marking him the one thing Rooney isn’t is athletic and has a short fuse . I do think as well as an abject player display the manger got this wrong Vokes too but O’Neil has credit in the bank and bright enough to learn so we move on . It was always good to go to the wire to survive and at least we won’t see Scholes this week
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Post by shrewspotter on Feb 1, 2020 8:56:03 GMT
to be fair it was the same team bar BMI that beat a tough Swansea side. Just so we know what would you have done differently It really doesn't matter what I would have done does it? In reality I probably would have fucked it up more but that doesn't mean I have to take it on the chin like a sensible normal person does it? H to be fair to O’Neil I would have played the same side he did, including Vokes, Ince etc who divide opinion, for the reason that this team beat Swansea and the majority West Brom who are better sides than Derby I also think 4-0 was very very flattering towards Derby, and for a good proportion of the game we played well. That said we started poorly and conceded poor goals but I can’t see that being O’Neils fault to be honest. Onwards and upwards, we will beat Charlton on Saturday and it will be sweet
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Post by shrewspotter on Feb 1, 2020 8:57:10 GMT
On a constructive note I do on occasions wonder about the preparation . pos match comments suggest Rooney was always gong to be a issue yet Luton and others have managed him . I’d have played cousins man marking him the one thing Rooney isn’t is athletic and has a short fuse . I do think as well as an abject player display the manger got this wrong Vokes too but O’Neil has credit in the bank and bright enough to learn so we move on . It was always good to go to the wire to survive and at least we won’t see Scholes this week not a bad shout re Cousins in hindsight Ben
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Post by RAF on Feb 1, 2020 8:58:01 GMT
It really doesn't matter what I would have done does it? In reality I probably would have fucked it up more but that doesn't mean I have to take it on the chin like a sensible normal person does it? H to be fair to O’Neil I would have played the same side he did, including Vokes, Ince etc who divide opinion, for the reason that this team beat Swansea and the majority West Brom who are better sides than Derby I also think 4-0 was very very flattering towards Derby, and for a good proportion of the game we played well. That said we started poorly and conceded poor goals but I can’t see that being O’Neils fault to be honest. Onwards and upwards, we will beat Charlton on Saturday and it will be sweet I'm rating him shit because his players were a disgrace. That's ultimately down to him as we know. H
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Post by shrewspotter on Feb 1, 2020 9:05:40 GMT
to be fair to O’Neil I would have played the same side he did, including Vokes, Ince etc who divide opinion, for the reason that this team beat Swansea and the majority West Brom who are better sides than Derby I also think 4-0 was very very flattering towards Derby, and for a good proportion of the game we played well. That said we started poorly and conceded poor goals but I can’t see that being O’Neils fault to be honest. Onwards and upwards, we will beat Charlton on Saturday and it will be sweet I'm rating him shit because his players were a disgrace. That's ultimately down to him as we know. H fair enough I guess but I can’t agree 100%. He didn’t tell Lindsay to get too tight to Holmes so he gets rolled which means Batth is pulled out of position leaving Martin free. We wasn’t responsible for Rooney scoring a fantastic free kick or ince switching off. Still I’ll give O’Neil a 5 👍
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 9:10:30 GMT
Having slept on it, I'm more of the opinion that MON has actually done an even better job than people have, to date, given him credit for.
He's been rightly lauded, due to the improvement that he's achieved, with Nathan Jones' failing squad.
After last night, and not for the first time this season, I'm looking through that Stoke side, and can only conclude that some of our players are utterly shit.
Lindsay, Ince and Vokes, are simply not good enough for the Championship. I'm not looking at what they did in 2015, or whenever. In 2020, they are nowhere near the mark. I've seen nothing, even glimpses, to tell me any different. A couple of those are bordering on pathetic.
Then below them, huge question marks hang over Batth, Tymon, McLean, Gregory, Cousins, Powell and Diouf.
(Without going into every individual, Powell was a massive disappointment for me last night. You can't have that talent, and then put in a performance like that last night, it was lazy, arrogant, nonchalant, and the no-look cross he did second half, into the keepers arms, summed up his entire game. Nowhere near the standard required).
That's not just knee-jerk reaction to a dry-humping last night. If any of those named above had have left yesterday, the reaction from 99% of Stoke supporters would have been a mixture of 'thank God' and 'meh'.
Well done, MON. The real test will be whether you're seeing what I'm seeing, and over the next two windows, whether you can effectively, churn 70% of the whole squad.
*If you pick Ince or Vokes though, next game, I'm not sure what the justification would be.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 1, 2020 9:34:33 GMT
Corned Beef Legs makes a good point above. Last night showed that, despite our improved form of late, we still have some pretty inept players in the squad. With hindsight (easy I know) I think i might have played Cousins as the defensive midfielder with a brief to do what he could to limit Rooney's influence. At half time I'd certainly have hauled off a few of the players who were not contributing either pace, skill or energy last night.
I'd have brought Diouf on for Vokes either at half time or early in the second half. I'm not in the bayernoatcake camp who thinks Diouf is the bees knees - but he still has enough power and pace to unsettle defences which is more than any of our starting eleven had last night.
I would have hauled Ince or Powell (and possibly both) off pretty early in the second half - although, to be honest, I would not have started Ince. I know he his form has improved slightly recently, but he still has far too many games where he just doesn't impose himself on the opposition - he's too lightweight and "frit" to take advantage of the skill he undoubtedly has. I'm sure that Ince's presence tends to have a negative effect on Powell - I don't think I'd ever play them together in the 3 of a 4231.
MON - gets a 5 from me.
Not at the game but saw it courtesy of a certain Stokie who shall not be named on this board. I hope MON has used yesterday as a valuable learning experience. And one other thing - he MUST try to find a player somewhere at the club who can deliver consistently good free kicks and corners. That was one reason why I hoped that we would sign Brunt - despite him being of pensionable age. If there is a kiddie in the U18 side who can use a dead ball properly, I'd be tempted to give them a chance providing they are strong enough to cope with the physical aspect of the game. Failing that MON needs to get 3 or 4 players doing at least an hour a day in training on dead ball kicks. It is downright embarrassing when we win more corners or attacking free kicks than the opposition and fail to do anything constructive with them!
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 1, 2020 9:53:45 GMT
Corned Beef Legs makes a good point above. Last night showed that, despite our improved form of late, we still have some pretty inept players in the squad. With hindsight (easy I know) I think i might have played Cousins as the defensive midfielder with a brief to do what he could to limit Rooney's influence. At half time I'd certainly have hauled off a few of the players who were not contributing either pace, skill or energy last night. I'd have brought Diouf on for Vokes either at half time or early in the second half. I'm not in the bayernoatcake camp who thinks Diouf is the bees knees - but he still has enough power and pace to unsettle defences which is more than any of our starting eleven had last night. I would have hauled Ince or Powell (and possibly both) off pretty early in the second half - although, to be honest, I would not have started Ince. I know he his form has improved slightly recently, but he still has far too many games where he just doesn't impose himself on the opposition - he's too lightweight and "frit" to take advantage of the skill he undoubtedly has. I'm sure that Ince's presence tends to have a negative effect on Powell - I don't think I'd ever play them together in the 3 of a 4231. MON - gets a 5 from me. Not at the game but saw it courtesy of a certain Stokie who shall not be named on this board. I hope MON has used yesterday as a valuable learning experience. And one other thing - he MUST try to find a player somewhere at the club who can deliver consistently good free kicks and corners. That was one reason why I hoped that we would sign Brunt - despite him being of pensionable age. If there is a kiddie in the U18 side who can use a dead ball properly, I'd be tempted to give them a chance providing they are strong enough to cope with the physical aspect of the game. Failing that MON needs to get 3 or 4 players doing at least an hour a day in training on dead ball kicks. It is downright embarrassing when we win more corners or attacking free kicks than the opposition and fail to do anything constructive with them! You make a very valid point in regards to our set plays. McLeans delivery from corners yesterday were abominable.
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hotpot
Youth Player
Posts: 432
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Post by hotpot on Feb 1, 2020 9:57:42 GMT
MON must wear this 4-0 Derby loss. He picked the team and they played like petrified pickles. If MON wants to keep his job, he should get just bloody get rid of Ince, Vokes, Powell, Clucas, Gregory, Butland, Tymon, McLean and Lyndsay ..... once and for all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 10:07:12 GMT
He needs to realise if your team is being outplayed,a pep talk and an orange at HT is unlikely to make much difference . He always seems reluctant to bring a sub on. Changes should have been made at HT.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 1, 2020 10:18:54 GMT
MON must wear this 4-0 Derby loss. He picked the team and they played like petrified pickles. If MON wants to keep his job, he should get just bloody get rid of Ince, Vokes, Powell, Clucas, Gregory, Butland, Tymon, McLean and Lyndsay ..... once and for all. Bit harsh on some of the players. Powell has had more good games than bad in recent weeks and (as I said above) I don't think Powell is as effective when Ince is in the front 3 alongside him. Ince is too lightweight to allow any room for Powell's undoubted skills. To be fair, Butland has also had a decent few weeks and last night's game was a relapse. I wouldn't say it proves he has lost his Mojo completely. I thought Tymon was a long way from being our worst player last night. A few times in the first half he made some great forward runs only to be totally ignored by our defence. Given that it was his first game for us for a very long time and his first game since returning from abroad, we'd be brain dead to write him off yet. There were as many plus points as minus points to his game last night. If MON did as you suggest and got rid of all those players "once and for all" we'd struggle to put out a team and, although our U18 and U23 squads have some decent prospects there are not enough to replace the 9 you mention. I'm assuming you DO realise that the transfer window is closed until the end of the season.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 1, 2020 10:24:55 GMT
How fans expect our players from stopping a brilliant player like Rooney, despite him being past his superb best, from strutting his stuff, makes me laugh. I wish we'd got the old bugger in our midfield. One of those days when everything goes wrong and MON can do nothing about that. Apart from losing Bruno, he stuck with the same players that have done well for us lately. Shit happens. So it's a 5 from me. OS. Man mark him. I know that’s a tough job but it was about the thing I expected from last night. I was surprised we didn’t have someone just doing that job. It is negative but a point last night would have been good.
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Post by fca47 on Feb 1, 2020 10:27:17 GMT
MON must wear this 4-0 Derby loss. He picked the team and they played like petrified pickles. If MON wants to keep his job, he should get just bloody get rid of Ince, Vokes, Powell, Clucas, Gregory, Butland, Tymon, McLean and Lyndsay ..... once and for all. Bit harsh on some of the players. Powell has had more good games than bad in recent weeks and (as I said above) I don't think Powell is as effective when Ince is in the front 3 alongside him. Ince is too lightweight to allow any room for Powell's undoubted skills. To be fair, Butland has also had a decent few weeks and last night's game was a relapse. I wouldn't say it proves he has lost his Mojo completely. I thought Tymon was a long way from being our worst player last night. A few times in the first half he made some great forward runs only to be totally ignored by our defence. Given that it was his first game for us for a very long time and his first game since returning from abroad, we'd be brain dead to write him off yet. There were as many plus points as minus points to his game last night. If MON did as you suggest and got rid of all those players "once and for all" we'd struggle to put out a team and, although our U18 and U23 squads have some decent prospects there are not enough to replace the 9 you mention. I'm assuming you DO realise that the transfer window is closed until the end of the season. Powell is the only player in this side with any vision, his pass won us the WBA game. Ince has had one half decent game all season and people are resurrecting him. His lack of backbone is not made up for by his imaginary skills.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 1, 2020 10:31:45 GMT
I don’t disagree but just wonder what makes you use the pure arrogance description of the window .( given it’s Scholes it’s a description that could be used for years ) but wondered what you thought specifically Touting Gregory around to all and sundry today summed it up for me. We think we're safe and can get by on the awful Vokes if Campbell gets crocked again. Staggering arrogance and no lessons learned at all at levels of the club. Maybe there was somebody lined up if he did go, but we don't know what was going on and to judge them on pretty much zero info is moronic.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 1, 2020 10:47:51 GMT
Touting Gregory around to all and sundry today summed it up for me. We think we're safe and can get by on the awful Vokes if Campbell gets crocked again. Staggering arrogance and no lessons learned at all at levels of the club. Maybe there was somebody lined up if he did go, but we don't know what was going on and to judge them on pretty much zero info is moronic. Who did we have lined up mate
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 1, 2020 10:53:51 GMT
Maybe there was somebody lined up if he did go, but we don't know what was going on and to judge them on pretty much zero info is moronic. Who did we have lined up mate I don't know and neither do you...... Sorry, edit, (loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool)
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 1, 2020 10:58:33 GMT
Who did we have lined up mate I don't know and neither do you...... Sorry, edit, (loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool) Nixon who knows more than either of us seemed to suggest we after some failed clown from Hearts. Still we've got big fat Sam leading the line haven't we. What else do we need? Sensational times. We drip with self satisfied complacency and incompetence in equal measure. Rofl's etc
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 12:25:53 GMT
Gets 2 for the subs alone.
That was tactically worse than anything so far.
Vokes should've been taken off really, as many have already mentioned - Cousins on Rooney would've changed the game. All we needed to do was get the ball to Powell in the middle and get people running off him but we persisted with fucking about on the wings and hoofing up to Vokes which is like trying to get pregnant by wanking into a sock.
Special mentions for Lyndsey and Smith. Fuck me...
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Post by songthrush01 on Feb 1, 2020 17:38:16 GMT
Out of his depth sadly this manager... no way have you just said that!
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 1, 2020 17:40:47 GMT
MON must wear this 4-0 Derby loss. He picked the team and they played like petrified pickles. If MON wants to keep his job, he should get just bloody get rid of Ince, Vokes, Powell, Clucas, Gregory, Butland, Tymon, McLean and Lyndsay ..... once and for all. That’s a great idea...who’s going to buy them?
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 1, 2020 17:41:45 GMT
Gets 2 for the subs alone. That was tactically worse than anything so far. Vokes should've been taken off really, as many have already mentioned - Cousins on Rooney would've changed the game. All we needed to do was get the ball to Powell in the middle and get people running off him but we persisted with fucking about on the wings and hoofing up to Vokes which is like trying to get pregnant by wanking into a sock. Special mentions for Lyndsey and Smith. Fuck me... If cousins had played it would have been in place of Powell though wouldn’t it?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 18:31:40 GMT
to be fair to O’Neil I would have played the same side he did, including Vokes, Ince etc who divide opinion, for the reason that this team beat Swansea and the majority West Brom who are better sides than Derby I also think 4-0 was very very flattering towards Derby, and for a good proportion of the game we played well. That said we started poorly and conceded poor goals but I can’t see that being O’Neils fault to be honest. Onwards and upwards, we will beat Charlton on Saturday and it will be sweet I'm rating him shit because his players were a disgrace. That's ultimately down to him as we know. H 4 players under-achieved by a mile last night, an abomination. 2/3 more were very poor, by their own standards. What does the manager do?
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Post by heworksardtho on Feb 1, 2020 19:25:11 GMT
I'm rating him shit because his players were a disgrace. That's ultimately down to him as we know. H 4 players under-achieved by a mile last night, an abomination. 2/3 more were very poor, by their own standards. What does the manager do? Call Ghostbusters 😎
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Post by blackpoolred on Feb 1, 2020 20:06:31 GMT
Football is a team game and over the last month no team has epitomised that more than SCFC.
We have given heart, nerve and sinew and had some brilliant individual performances coupled with a team that has been well clued up on their opposition. We have made very few errors and stood up to a man culminating in probably, for me, the best 70 mins of football for a while against the Swans
I have no idea what happened yesterday, whether they were over confident and believed the hype around them and all the play-off bollox fans have been talking about and thought they just had to turn up to win, but it was back to the mistake ridden, totally switched off, surrender monkey performance we had pre Christmas.
The manager was correct in his post match interview against WBA, when he said we had very little threat going forward after we lost Campbell, the same was true yesterday and we also had a midfield that did not protect the back four or seem to think it was important to pick up Rooney and as a result he ran the show. We needed to show up switched-on and raring to give it our all and be able to adapt, yesterday Derby had nothing to worry about in terms of our goal threat and found a non-existent mistake ridden unprotected defence - a defence that is vulnerable if not protected
We have a manager that has no experience at all at this level and yesterday it showed.
He has showed he is no slouch though and seems to have got up-to-speed quickly with all things championship - and has done a pretty amazing job thus far - so credit where it is due.
I am not even going to give a mark for that performance because it is not worthy of a number - next week back to basics, heart, nerve and sinew and all that bollox - for what is our most important game in recent history, win and we could put distance between us and Wigan and also go above a struggling Charlton side, lose and we could be back in the drop zone with only Wigan in our immediate sights.
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rednwhiteblood
Lads'n'Dads
Censored for an opinion well done 👏
Posts: 61
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Post by rednwhiteblood on Feb 1, 2020 22:17:12 GMT
Picking lindsay tymon and Sam vokes is poor, but we did have a good last 2 games so it's understandable, bar tymon. He wont ever be good enough. If MON doesnt react now to the fact that lindsay Tymon vokes are not good enough then that's when thingsll change for me. 7 wins out of 16 is good enough, same return from the remaining 16 and were safe job done
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Feb 1, 2020 22:29:05 GMT
5 bad day all round, 4 was flattering to Derby but 0 wasn't flattering to us. Onto Charlton. Gouranga.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 22:39:39 GMT
I don’t disagree but just wonder what makes you use the pure arrogance description of the window .( given it’s Scholes it’s a description that could be used for years ) but wondered what you thought specifically Touting Gregory around to all and sundry today summed it up for me. We think we're safe and can get by on the awful Vokes if Campbell gets crocked again. Staggering arrogance and no lessons learned at all at levels of the club. Did he? His ex manager wanted him.
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Post by crowey on Feb 1, 2020 22:50:27 GMT
Gets 2 for the subs alone. That was tactically worse than anything so far. Vokes should've been taken off really, as many have already mentioned - Cousins on Rooney would've changed the game. All we needed to do was get the ball to Powell in the middle and get people running off him but we persisted with fucking about on the wings and hoofing up to Vokes which is like trying to get pregnant by wanking into a sock. Special mentions for Lyndsey and Smith. Fuck me... If cousins had played it would have been in place of Powell though wouldn’t it? ....... good (admittedly in hindsight) after the “performance” he put in
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Post by pavel on Feb 1, 2020 23:34:41 GMT
I think it’s the first time O’Neil has seen what happens when a team runs at us with pace and purpose, we, of course, have seen it far too often over the last 3 years. I think the time to judge him on this performance is when we see how he reacts to it, so I won’t judge him one this performance.
However he must now know that Vokes is not the answer, whatever the question is!
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