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Post by AlliG on Dec 19, 2019 15:17:39 GMT
Hands up anyone who was expecting us to report a loss of just £15.4m for the 2018/19 season? That will be no one then. Are you suggesting that these audited accounts are incorrect?
Nah, thought not.
No. That is not what I said. Just pointing out that while according to the experts on here the Board is not capable of running a bath, at least our accountant appears to be top quality.
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Post by knowingeye on Dec 21, 2019 13:37:28 GMT
When spreadsheets matter more than 4-4-2, it seems.
Making money (or reducing losses) is one thing.
Regularly losing on the pitch without proper investment questionable.
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Post by FullerMagic on Dec 30, 2019 8:50:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 9:08:05 GMT
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Post by berahinosgoals on Dec 30, 2019 9:12:22 GMT
That gives us £23.6m to play with this season and next For all the owners faults, we spent an eye watering £60m on transfers. And wasted almost every penny of it...... What are the odds on a stoke relegation? If we lump the £23.6m on a stoke relegation at 365 and don't add the quality needed in the transfer window I predict we will be debt free by may 😆
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 30, 2019 9:31:40 GMT
Swiss ramble makes it appear like, financially at least, we are doing a good job of managing the club within ffp rules considering relegation and terrible performance in the championship.
Tony scholes not the anti-christ?
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Post by berahinosgoals on Dec 30, 2019 9:33:09 GMT
£26.4m compared to what has been wasted is like spunking all your wages on a fruit machine and then spotting a £2 coin underneath the machine for 4 more spins
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Post by thebet365 on Dec 30, 2019 9:35:24 GMT
Our finances summarised.
Last season we posted a 15.4 Million loss which included 18.2 Million profit on player sales, something we don't have this season so far. On top of that Parachute payments drop a further 10 Million this season so we're already heading for a 40+ million loss.
The wage bill will have needed a big reduction again and a decent sale of some sort either now or in the summer. It's certainly gonna be players out before we can spend anything on incoming.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 10:09:32 GMT
Best thing on Twitter is Swiss Ramble......
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Post by thehoof on Dec 30, 2019 10:23:49 GMT
Are you suggesting that these audited accounts are incorrect?
Nah, thought not.
No. That is not what I said. Just pointing out that while according to the experts on here the Board is not capable of running a bath, at least our accountant appears to be top quality. I wouldn’t call incurring a loss of £15.4m the actions of a top accountant- or is the CEO asking for some credit for presiding over the business shambles that has arisen? Sorry, I forgot- he’s not actually responsible for anything is he?
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Post by lordb on Dec 30, 2019 10:29:57 GMT
Our finances summarised. Last season we posted a 15.4 Million loss which included 18.2 Million profit on player sales, something we don't have this season so far. On top of that Parachute payments drop a further 10 Million this season so we're already heading for a 40+ million loss. The wage bill will have needed a big reduction again and a decent sale of some sort either now or in the summer. It's certainly gonna be players out before we can spend anything on incoming. There will have been a wage bill decrease because the players on Premier League contracts reportedly had a further cut last summer having failed (by a mere ten places) to make the play offs. However hard to see anything other than a bigger loss as you say
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Post by scfcno1fan on Dec 30, 2019 10:34:29 GMT
Swiss ramble makes it appear like, financially at least, we are doing a good job of managing the club within ffp rules considering relegation and terrible performance in the championship. Tony scholes not the anti-christ? Still looks like we are in a bit of a mess next year. Need to get these big earners shifted.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Dec 30, 2019 10:49:55 GMT
No. That is not what I said. Just pointing out that while according to the experts on here the Board is not capable of running a bath, at least our accountant appears to be top quality. I wouldn’t call incurring a loss of £15.4m the actions of a top accountant- or is the CEO asking for some credit for presiding over the business shambles that has arisen? Sorry, I forgot- he’s not actually responsible for anything is he? He did that good a job he got a pay increase, 21%!
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Post by AlliG on Dec 30, 2019 10:54:14 GMT
No. That is not what I said. Just pointing out that while according to the experts on here the Board is not capable of running a bath, at least our accountant appears to be top quality. I wouldn’t call incurring a loss of £15.4m the actions of a top accountant- or is the CEO asking for some credit for presiding over the business shambles that has arisen? Sorry, I forgot- he’s not actually responsible for anything is he? Since when does the CEO prepare the Company accounts?
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Post by thehoof on Dec 30, 2019 10:57:25 GMT
Eh- you referred to him as a top accountant, who believe it or not, does prepare the accounts? Are you confused with Scholes’ role as you are contradicting yourself? Accountants can be CEO’s you know?
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 30, 2019 11:46:41 GMT
Swiss ramble makes it appear like, financially at least, we are doing a good job of managing the club within ffp rules considering relegation and terrible performance in the championship. Tony scholes not the anti-christ? Indeed although there are some questions on the non tv revenue and customer service it perhaps explains why he retains the backing of the Coates family as broadly he seems to be doing one of the important parts of his job more than competently.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 30, 2019 11:49:53 GMT
Swiss ramble makes it appear like, financially at least, we are doing a good job of managing the club within ffp rules considering relegation and terrible performance in the championship. Tony scholes not the anti-christ? Indeed although there are some questions on the non tv revenue and customer service it perhaps explains why he retains the backing of the Coates family as broadly he seems to be doing one of the important parts of his job more than competently. If we truly are a manager led operation, maybe scholes is the main man in ensuring that the club remains on a sound financial footing?
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Post by thehoof on Dec 30, 2019 13:05:42 GMT
Does the £39m loss over a 3 year period apply to all leagues or just the Championship? We stand a 50/50 chance of being in Div 1 next year with the potential for another massive decline in revenue while still being saddled with amortisation and salary payments for Wimmer and Imbula- also the wages of Ince, Vokes, Clucas etc who still have reasonable time left on their contracts and who are unlikely ( even if sold) to recover their current Net Book Values? I am assuming we will profit on the sale of Allen and Butland, and while hindsight is a wonderful thing, we may have been better signing the superstars on 3 year contacts when our revenues were better equipped to take the larger amortisation hits.
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 30, 2019 13:19:46 GMT
FFP is just a closed shop for the premier league , in 5 years there will be only one or no teams promoted from the Championship , the money is the God
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Post by marylandstoke on Dec 30, 2019 13:41:32 GMT
Does the £39m loss over a 3 year period apply to all leagues or just the Championship? We stand a 50/50 chance of being in Div 1 next year with the potential for another massive decline in revenue while still being saddled with amortisation and salary payments for Wimmer and Imbula- also the wages of Ince, Vokes, Clucas etc who still have reasonable time left on their contracts and who are unlikely ( even if sold) to recover their current Net Book Values? I am assuming we will profit on the sale of Allen and Butland, and while hindsight is a wonderful thing, we may have been better signing the superstars on 3 year contacts when our revenues were better equipped to take the larger amortisation hits. How on earth do you get “we stand a 50/50 chance of being in Div 1 next year”?
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 30, 2019 13:49:38 GMT
Does the £39m loss over a 3 year period apply to all leagues or just the Championship? We stand a 50/50 chance of being in Div 1 next year with the potential for another massive decline in revenue while still being saddled with amortisation and salary payments for Wimmer and Imbula- also the wages of Ince, Vokes, Clucas etc who still have reasonable time left on their contracts and who are unlikely ( even if sold) to recover their current Net Book Values? I am assuming we will profit on the sale of Allen and Butland, and while hindsight is a wonderful thing, we may have been better signing the superstars on 3 year contacts when our revenues were better equipped to take the larger amortisation hits. Its £13m a year allowable loss for each championship season and £35m allowable loss for each premiership season for League 1 that loss figure falls not sure what too. The spike in player amortisation in 31/12/18 accounts is I assume Wimmer, Imbula and others being written off. Butland's transfer fee of £3.3m has already been amortised, my understanding is that players don't get "revalued" if they sign a new contract only the original transfer fee / contractual bonuses are amortised over the remaining contract so Butland probably has a value in the accounts of zero or fairly close to it similarily for Joe Allen who is about 3.5 years through his 5 year contract so his value would be £4m-£5m in the accounts. Assuming transfer fees of £12m-£15m in Jan for Allen and May for Butland I would hope the £19m-£25m would give enough profit to give us ample breathing room whichever league we are in.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 30, 2019 13:54:06 GMT
Indeed although there are some questions on the non tv revenue and customer service it perhaps explains why he retains the backing of the Coates family as broadly he seems to be doing one of the important parts of his job more than competently. If we truly are a manager led operation, maybe scholes is the main man in ensuring that the club remains on a sound financial footing? Well if on a sound financial footing you mean significant losses the Coates family are happy to wear you could be right, if he was not doing largely as they wanted financially I am sure he would be gone in nanoseconds, wasn't one of the decisive factors in sacking Clulis the abysmal financial performance / cost with Denise supposedly one of those pushing the strongest to get rid of him.
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Post by thehoof on Dec 30, 2019 14:32:30 GMT
Does the £39m loss over a 3 year period apply to all leagues or just the Championship? We stand a 50/50 chance of being in Div 1 next year with the potential for another massive decline in revenue while still being saddled with amortisation and salary payments for Wimmer and Imbula- also the wages of Ince, Vokes, Clucas etc who still have reasonable time left on their contracts and who are unlikely ( even if sold) to recover their current Net Book Values? I am assuming we will profit on the sale of Allen and Butland, and while hindsight is a wonderful thing, we may have been better signing the superstars on 3 year contacts when our revenues were better equipped to take the larger amortisation hits. How on earth do you get “we stand a 50/50 chance of being in Div 1 next year”? Let me see- 3 teams on 21 points another on 20 points while there is then a gap of two favourable results before we catch the team 5th off bottom. I’d say 50/ 50 is probably doing us a favour.
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Post by marylandstoke on Dec 30, 2019 14:55:33 GMT
How on earth do you get “we stand a 50/50 chance of being in Div 1 next year”? Let me see- 3 teams on 21 points another on 20 points while there is then a gap of two favourable results before we catch the team 5th off bottom. I’d say 50/ 50 is probably doing us a favour. So we are listed at evens to go down, with the bookies?
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Post by thehoof on Dec 30, 2019 15:07:22 GMT
Let me see- 3 teams on 21 points another on 20 points while there is then a gap of two favourable results before we catch the team 5th off bottom. I’d say 50/ 50 is probably doing us a favour. So we are listed at evens to go down, with the bookies? That makes it a fact we will stay up does it? I’ll bet we weren’t in their odds to be anywhere near the bottom 4 at the start of the season? Let’s see what our odds are after our next 3 league games- we may have put some space between ourselves and Wigan, Barnsley, Luton or we may be back in the bottom 3- if the Bookies suddenly say we are favourites for relegation, it doesn’t mean it will happen. What do you think we will realistically achieve?
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Post by marylandstoke on Dec 30, 2019 15:38:03 GMT
So we are listed at evens to go down, with the bookies? That makes it a fact we will stay up does it? I’ll bet we weren’t in their odds to be anywhere near the bottom 4 at the start of the season? Let’s see what our odds are after our next 3 league games- we may have put some space between ourselves and Wigan, Barnsley, Luton or we may be back in the bottom 3- if the Bookies suddenly say we are favourites for relegation, it doesn’t mean it will happen. What do you think we will realistically achieve? No, not a fact at all, just thought pricing us at evens was a bit odd. Idea was that the bookies, as pros, would have an idea of the market. Not met many impecunious ones. At present I would celebrate fourth bottom like we’d won a cup. I definatly think there’s a good side in there somewhere.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 30, 2019 15:47:59 GMT
That makes it a fact we will stay up does it? I’ll bet we weren’t in their odds to be anywhere near the bottom 4 at the start of the season? Let’s see what our odds are after our next 3 league games- we may have put some space between ourselves and Wigan, Barnsley, Luton or we may be back in the bottom 3- if the Bookies suddenly say we are favourites for relegation, it doesn’t mean it will happen. What do you think we will realistically achieve? No, not a fact at all, just thought pricing us at evens was a bit odd. Idea was that the bookies, as pros, would have an idea of the market. Not met many impecunious ones. At present I would celebrate fourth bottom like we’d won a cup. I definatly think there’s a good side in there somewhere. Good team is probably pushing it for this lot but I do think they are better than at least 3 other teams.
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Post by thebet365 on Dec 30, 2019 15:52:13 GMT
That makes it a fact we will stay up does it? I’ll bet we weren’t in their odds to be anywhere near the bottom 4 at the start of the season? Let’s see what our odds are after our next 3 league games- we may have put some space between ourselves and Wigan, Barnsley, Luton or we may be back in the bottom 3- if the Bookies suddenly say we are favourites for relegation, it doesn’t mean it will happen. What do you think we will realistically achieve? No, not a fact at all, just thought pricing us at evens was a bit odd. Idea was that the bookies, as pros, would have an idea of the market. Not met many impecunious ones. At present I would celebrate fourth bottom like we’d won a cup. I definatly think there’s a good side in there somewhere. 7/2 best price at the minute, they currently have Charlton at lower odds than us to go down. Bottom 3 all less than evens.
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Post by thehoof on Dec 30, 2019 16:30:25 GMT
That makes it a fact we will stay up does it? I’ll bet we weren’t in their odds to be anywhere near the bottom 4 at the start of the season? Let’s see what our odds are after our next 3 league games- we may have put some space between ourselves and Wigan, Barnsley, Luton or we may be back in the bottom 3- if the Bookies suddenly say we are favourites for relegation, it doesn’t mean it will happen. What do you think we will realistically achieve? No, not a fact at all, just thought pricing us at evens was a bit odd. Idea was that the bookies, as pros, would have an idea of the market. Not met many impecunious ones. At present I would celebrate fourth bottom like we’d won a cup. I definatly think there’s a good side in there somewhere. I agree with celebrating 4th bottom- the only point I was trying to make is that 4th bottom is probably as good as we can do. Our away form is pretty poor and we have already chucked away points at home against teams that I would have normally expected us to do a bit better against. We do have to win probably 6 of our remaining home games to give ourselves a chance- unless our away form improves massively.
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Post by markby on Dec 31, 2019 0:43:01 GMT
Does the £39m loss over a 3 year period apply to all leagues or just the Championship? The £39m allowable losses over 3 years is just for the Championship.
The PL's rules are very different, and Lges. One and Two are less restricted, I assume on the basis that if anyone's mad enough to put his/her money into a lower league club, then let them fire away!
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